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# Technical Word processor with maths ?

I'm an old Nisus user. I made all my scientific documents with it. I used Expressionist for the equations, and FreeHand for the illustrations. All were used in OS 9 or now under the classic mode (I'm using Panther right now).

I want to change to full OS X apps. I'll probably use MathEQ as equation editor, which is the successor of Expressionist. I may end with the new MathType for OS X which should be out soon.

But what Word processor are you recommending to me, except Nisus Writer Express (which is a total downgrade to me) ? I tryed the Mellel demo, and it appears to be a fine product, but I'm not sure about equations with it.

I do lots of mathematical stuff, and I don't want to use TeX or LaTeX, or any kind of computer coding for any math. I want to work with a fully WYSIWYG app. So please, what OS X technical Word processor are you suggesting, which may handle math equations ?

Thanks.

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

A fairly good list of what's out there can be found here:
http://www.macscience.net/
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
Quote:
Originally posted by jginsbu
A fairly good list of what's out there can be found here:
http://www.macscience.net/

That's a very disappointing list. I anxiously await the MacOS X 10.x port of FrameMaker. My favorite MacOS word processor is the late and lamented FullWrite 2.x. If only someone would raise it from the grave once more. I totally agree with Kali about Nisus Write Express. How could this veteran Mac developer labor so mightly to deliver such a small and insignificant mouse? Let us hope that Nisus ports Nisus Write to MacOSX.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Me
That's a very disappointing list. I anxiously await the MacOS X 10.x port of FrameMaker. My favorite MacOS word processor is the late and lamented FullWrite 2.x. If only someone would raise it from the grave once more. I totally agree with Kali about Nisus Write Express. How could this veteran Mac developer labor so mightly to deliver such a small and insignificant mouse? Let us hope that Nisus ports Nisus Write to MacOSX.

I wouldn't hold your breath for FrameMaker: it's been long rumored and little seen. The rumors I've heard involve Adobe trying to move the OS9 version over to OS X. This seems wrong to me: they should be porting the unix versions over, which are current at least. Anyway, FrameMaker's pricing puts it out of reach for most.

Nisus Writer Express IS Nisus Write for OS X, or will be whenever Nisus can bring the functionality up. Nisus just seems to be having all kinds of trouble doing this. There is no "port" to wait for.

I use Mellel because, as far as I'm concerned, it's by far the best of the lot. And, unlike Nisus, significant feature improvements appear regularly. The user community is also good and the developers are very good at listening to user feedback and offering support. YMMV.
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
LaTeX is still the best of course. There are some OS X editors to help you out.
Quote:
Originally posted by jginsbu
I wouldn't hold your breath for FrameMaker: it's been long rumored and little seen. The rumors I've heard involve Adobe trying to move the OS9 version over to OS X. This seems wrong to me: they should be porting the unix versions over, which are current at least. Anyway, FrameMaker's pricing puts it out of reach for most.

I am not "most." FrameMaker may not be the best possible application, but it is pretty darned good. It has been my mission-critical app for the more than a decade. Frankly, I am dismayed by some of Adobe's comments about FrameMaker. I am, however, also buoyed by the fact that FrameMaker 7.0 uses MacOS X 10-compatible icons. If Adobe doesn't port the application to MacOS X 10.x, I have time to find an alternative.
Quote:
Originally posted by jginsbu
Nisus Writer Express IS Nisus Write for OS X, or will be whenever Nisus can bring the functionality up. Nisus just seems to be having all kinds of trouble doing this. There is no "port" to wait for.

Nisus/Nisus Writer was always the alternative to my mission critical word processor. I never adopted it, but I knew that it would serve me well if I ever did. Nisus Writer Express can't. I may be forced to look elsewhere. But, again, I have time.
Quote:
Originally posted by jginsbu
I use Mellel because, as far as I'm concerned, it's by far the best of the lot. And, unlike Nisus, significant feature improvements appear regularly. The user community is also good and the developers are very good at listening to user feedback and offering support. YMMV.

If I were to go with a minimal word processor, I would probably go with Mariner Write. We can agree on this much: YMMV.
Kali,

In my view you should just hold your nose and get into Framemaker anyway. Sure it's not OSX native, but it is extremely stable in Classic.

As for Frame's future -- on the Mac and other platforms -- the current belief amongst Frame geeks is that Adobe's recent termination of Pagemaker provides a clue. In other words, expect something from Adobe based on the InDesign engine, with a whole bunch of add-ons to duplicate Frame's functionality. Just don't expect it soon.

Until that happy day arrives, just lie back and think of Avie.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Me
I am not "most."

I didn't say that you were. Given the products mentioned by Kali in the original post, I thought it was worth mentioning that FrameMaker is in an entirely different league in price (and features) from them.

Quote:
If I were to go with a minimal word processor, I would probably go with Mariner Write.

If you're suggesting that Mellel is a minimal word processor and that Mariner Write is a better alternative, then I must disagree on both counts. Mellel isn't trying to compete with FrameMaker, which is much more than a word processor. As for Mariner, I think Mellel is already the stronger app. And being cocoa based and enjoying very active development and enhancement, I expect that will continue to be the case. It is clear the Mellel's developers have set themselves the goal producing for OS X a word processor superior to the old Nisus of OS9, and while they aren't there yet, they're making excellent progress. Already, Mellel is the best OS X native WP for those with multilingual needs, and notes and auto-numbering are very powerful indeed.
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
I can't say whether it would meet your needs, but Mathematica has word-processing capabilities. It certainly can handle the mathematical part.
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Quote:
Originally posted by boy_analog
Kali,

In my view you should just hold your nose and get into Framemaker anyway. Sure it's not OSX native, but it is extremely stable in Classic.

As for Frame's future -- on the Mac and other platforms -- the current belief amongst Frame geeks is that Adobe's recent termination of Pagemaker provides a clue. In other words, expect something from Adobe based on the InDesign engine, with a whole bunch of add-ons to duplicate Frame's functionality. Just don't expect it soon.

Until that happy day arrives, just lie back and think of Avie.

Well, my combo (Nisus, Expressionist, FreeHand) is already a perfect one in classic. I'll stay with it until I find something right in OS X. At least, I can use it in the classic mode without any trouble.

Mellel seems to be a very good product, except for equations and graphics. There is no graphics layer or graphics options in Mellel. There is a very good garphics layer in Nisus, and I'm talking about a very old Nisus version here (Nisus 3.47, not even Nisus Writer).

After all these years with OS X, I can't believe there is nothing good about scientific word processing in OS X !

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Quote:
Originally posted by Kali

Mellel seems to be a very good product, except for equations and graphics. There is no graphics layer or graphics options in Mellel. There is a very good garphics layer in Nisus, and I'm talking about a very old Nisus version here (Nisus 3.47, not even Nisus Writer).

You might try e-mailing Mellel's developers about this. They are quite responsive and may be able to tell you when they plan on adding features in this area. Also, they do poll their users about what their priorities for new features are, so they could at least take your vote into account.

Good luck!
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
"Time goes, you say? Ah no! Alas, Time stays, we go." -H. A. Dobson
Quote:
Originally posted by Kali

I do lots of mathematical stuff, and I don't want to use TeX or LaTeX, or any kind of computer coding for any math. I want to work with a fully WYSIWYG app.

You can use though LyX, the WYSIWYG version of LaTeX. It requires a working teTeX installation in the system. I have not personally used it, so I cannot tell about.
To my ears, this sounds like: I want to edit movies but I don't want to learn iMovie or FCP-- why are there no other options?

TeXShop (or other) and teTeX absolutely rock on OS X. So there's just not much interest in a paying app that will cut productivity in half and make output that looks like garbage.

If you are going to be writing technical documents for more than three months, learn LaTeX. The only exception I can think of would be if your documents have to have very complicated layouts, but not much math.
Alternately, you can install teTeX, and Equation Service . You still have to learn the LaTeX equation syntax, but it's really freaking simple and quick. Equation Service runs the snippet you select through teTeX and replaces the snippet with *voila* a PDF image of the equation fully rendered. You can then move that image around in whatever WYSIWYG editor you like.

Very slick. You get LaTeX's superb equation formatting combined with whatever word layout app you prefer.

Me, I'll stick with TeXShop and teTeX, but others may like this approach better. (I use it for quick down and dirty equations over iChat, for instance. )
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Quote:
Originally posted by failedmathematician
To my ears, this sounds like: I want to edit movies but I don't want to learn iMovie or FCP-- why are there no other options?

TeXShop (or other) and teTeX absolutely rock on OS X. So there's just not much interest in a paying app that will cut productivity in half and make output that looks like garbage.

If you are going to be writing technical documents for more than three months, learn LaTeX. The only exception I can think of would be if your documents have to have very complicated layouts, but not much math.

Then tell me how to install teTeX and where exactly can I find all the needed ressources ? All the Web pages I've found about this are horribly complicated, and full of links which do not ends.

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Quote:
Originally posted by Kali
Then tell me how to install teTeX and where exactly can I find all the needed ressources ? All the Web pages I've found about this are horribly complicated, and full of links which do not ends.

You can find everything that you need at this website. I recommend iTeXMac as your TeX typesetter and viewer, though you may prefer OzTeX or TeXShop. iTeXMac and TeXShop both require teTeX. You may find i-Installer, an installer/updater for teTeX at one of my links above in this post or on this web page.
Yeah, now we're talking. Me has pointed to the right pages. I like the instructions provided on the TexShop page:

http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/texshop.html

http://www.rna.nl/ii.html

get that bad boy up and running and install the following in order (quoting from the TeXShop page):

TeX
CM Super for TeX (this is optional, giving additional fonts)
Ghostscript 8 (or Ghostscript 6 if you are using OSX 10.1.5 or lower)
Freetype 2 (this and the next two programs are only required for conversion between various image formats)
wmf and iconv conversion support
ImageMagick
TeX Support: TeX4ht (this is optional, giving a program to translate tex into html)

Now, of these, I only bother with the first three-- I do all my graphics separately. Basically, this is one of those download as you go, so it's kind of a pain for 56k people. Just follow the instructions as they are presented to you, select the default for everything except for possibly paper size depending on where you live. You're going to need admin access to your computer to do the install, but that's pretty much it.

As I said before, I like TeXShop. When I first got X up and running it was the only thing available, and I have never felt the need to switch, but feel free to choose whichever TeX editor you want.

A lot of TeX is learn as you go. So I'm linking to some files so you can see how TeX code gets typeset. Mind you, I'm not very good with TeX: I learned it well enough for my purposes and no more. I hope there aren't too many math mistakes as well.

http://webpages.charter.net/mharvey/tex_files.sit
Quote:
Originally posted by failedmathematician

As I said before, I like TeXShop. When I first got X up and running it was the only thing available, and I have never felt the need to switch, but feel free to choose whichever TeX editor you want.

Yeah, TeXShop is very nice, although I miss OzTeX that I used in OS 9, but this is only a nostalgia side effect, it seems . I find Kali's case rather rare, as I hardly know cases of people who used or use WYSIWYG editors for writing equations and technical documents. TeX/LaTeX is the de facto standard in this domain, no question, especially in Mathematics and Mathematical and Theoretical Physics. And it should be a more general standard because of the unrivaled quality of produced documents, robustness, cross-platform compatibility and incredible configurability and layout control. I have the right to dream, no?
For the simple-minded (like me), there's Math+Magic (www.mathmagic.com), which is like the Equation Editor in MS Word and AppleWorks, but is easy to set up so that commonly used symbols/templates can be accessed with keyboard shortcuts.

It doesn't seem to be worthy of mention for people responding to this thread, but it's good enough for me for math/engineering/physics homework and labs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack
For the simple-minded (like me), there's Math+Magic (www.mathmagic.com), which is like the Equation Editor in MS Word and AppleWorks, but is easy to set up so that commonly used symbols/templates can be accessed with keyboard shortcuts.

It doesn't seem to be worthy of mention for people responding to this thread, but it's good enough for me for math/engineering/physics homework and labs.

Math Magic comes in several flavors, Pro for InDesign, Pro for Quark Xpress, and standalone pro and lite versions. I have always hated MathType/Equation Editor. I have always loved Expressionist. However, I really hate the fact that its developers have decided that MathEQ should require activation.

MathMaker does beautiful equations. I don't think that its lack of mention represents a weakness in the product line. If anything, its low profile may be due to its Korean origins as opposed to the other developers' US origins.
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Yeah, TeXShop is very nice, although I miss OzTeX that I used in OS 9, but this is only a nostalgia side effect, it seems .

OzTeX has been ported to MacOS X for a couple of years now. It is a Carbon app that works fine on MacOS 9.x or MacOS X 10.x.
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I find Kali's case rather rare, as I hardly know cases of people who used or use WYSIWYG editors for writing equations and technical documents.

You don't anyone who uses FrameMaker? Expressionist? MathType? Equation Editor? MathEQ? MathMagic? Scientific Word/Scientific Workplace? Several of these can export to TeX.
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
TeX/LaTeX is the de facto standard in this domain, no question, especially in Mathematics and Mathematical and Theoretical Physics. And it should be a more general standard because of the unrivaled quality of produced documents, robustness, cross-platform compatibility and incredible configurability and layout control. I have the right to dream, no?

TeX was developed by Donald Knuth to typeset equations because he hated how badly they were being typeset up to that time. However, that was before the desktop publishing era. It would be most cumbersome to use TeX to layout a magazine. However, TeX can layout just about any kind of book and do so very well. The primary reason that scientists use TeX is that their professional journals require TeX. Rather than having to worry about a myriad of document formats in submitted papers, everyone submits TeX files. Each file can then be easily inserted into a particular flow with the guarrantee that it will appear exactly as the author intended while meeting the publication's style guide.
Actually, that's no longer true.

Most submissions (in CS at least) require PDF, TeX is a distant second any more for a submission format. No, we use LaTeX because for our needs (like equations) it's still tops by a large margin. Word would produce that PDF file also, but it's just too painful.

The only two systems I've seen anyone use are LaTeX or Word, and I've seen too many horror stories (and experienced a few) regarding Word to use it myself any more.

Heck, a friend of mine just last night had Word/Win delete his book.

The whole thing.

He's a little upset.

(He tried to save, it wouldn't let him. He checks the file, it's *gone*. It won't let him Save As either. He notes that there are indeed autosave files, so he quits and restarts Word. It deleted *those* on quitting.)

Did I mention that the final document was due at the publisher's this morning?

So why did he use Word? Because the publisher insisted.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My physics prof swears by Scientific Workplace... granted it's for PC, but he's written 4 or 5 of his own personal textbooks on it (none published, but used like the bible on this campus).

I've never seen how difficult it is to use, but generally the faculty here likes it.
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That horror story looks like very improbable to me. Maybe your friend is a computer idiot. Sorry to say that.

I'm a physics teacher and I've written a huge book on general relativity (not published). All was done in Nisus 3.47 (very old version now) with Expressionist. All my coworkers are using MS Word and MathType. I hate MSW to death and I'll never use it.

I can make PDF out of Nisus 3.47 very easily by printing a PS file to the desktop and then convert it to PDF with the Preview app in Panther. My old physics documents are looking terrific now, and I can share them with anyone on the net (it's all in French, sorry)

My problems are these : there is no links between separate documents. I have this long Contents file and all the separate chapters and sections. I can't just click on a content and automatically go to the selected section. Also, there are many related sections between the files, but as soon as I change one, the other is broken and needs to be updated. This is a real pain in the a** to update. That's why I need to change my writing tools.

I downloaded and installed teTeX and iTeXMac yesterday and they appears to work properly. But how can I use TeX with a WYSIWYG editor ? It's a real pain in the a** to write a technical document by using commands and coding ! Geez, we are in 2004, 21st century !!

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

oh man!! LyX is AMAZING!!! It is now OS X compatible as well (for the most part). I used it for my senior seminar in college (they required LaTeX), and everyone was amazed at my output. It looks so professional.

And EASY!!!

Way easy. Much better than anything I have used, and no programming!!!

www.lyx.org
lyx takes all the worry and hassle out of latex. You can print automatically to pdfs.

It is extremely nice to use and lets you input whatever you want.

Give it a whirl. One of my favorite programs around.
Check out Textures, from Blue sky research, which is a commercial version of LaTex. An OS X native version is being developed, but the current version does run under Classic. It isn't free, but it is easier to use than many of the other LaTex versions out there. A lot of the math typesetters I work with use Textures to typeset books with.

Blue Sky also has a LaTex-based math plug-in for QuarkXPress called Mathsetter.
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I'm sorry, but LyX looks better and it's free. Hmmm....
Quote:
Originally posted by Kali
That horror story looks like very improbable to me. Maybe your friend is a computer idiot. Sorry to say that.

Actually, he's a lead engineer at Cisco, and one of the most technically knowledgeable people I've ever met, on several IETF Working Groups, etc, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, he has this bad habit of expecting things to work rationally...

So no, very probable, and he's not a computer idiot.

(He also did his physics graduate work in string theory at Rutgers until he basically got bored with it... scary, scary man.)
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Quote:
Originally posted by sassycat
I'm sorry, but LyX looks better and it's free. Hmmm....

Odd, I've tried LyX, and to be honest, I prefer typing in the LaTeX manually. I know exactly what's going to happen in that case, and I find that I can *usually* craft a complex equation faster with raw LaTeX code than I can with point and click on a menu.

I kept praying for a good WYSIWYG LaTeX editor, and when I finally got one... I found out I didn't need it. It's a great way to learn LaTeX though, as long as you can see the raw code underneath.

TeXShop has a LaTeX Panel that provides click access to the most widely used math and environment tidbits, in case you forget that one command you need. It also has a Macros menu that's very extensible and quite powerful. (Check the TeXShop site for more macros to add in.) I plop my most commonly used long constructs there. Very quick and easy.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
I installed iTeXMac and TeXShop and played with them.

To be honest, going to this LaTeX thing is a complete and total downgrade to me. It's horribly fastidious to write a simple equation with that system. I tried to write the Einstein equation :

$R_{\\mu\ u} - {1\\over 2} g_{\\mu\ u}R=-\\kappa T_{\\mu\ u}$

while it's so direct with Expressionist. GEEZ ! In Expressionist, it took me seconds to do ! I can't believe it !!

I'm writing in French, and apparently LaTeX can't even print the letters with an accent (Ã¨ Ã© Ã* Ã¹ etc). I have to put some commands to make it working correctly. Please, tell me how to write accents without entering commands !!

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Quote:
Originally posted by Kali
I installed iTeXMac and TeXShop and played with them.

To be honest, going to this LaTeX thing is a complete and total downgrade to me. It's horribly fastidious to write a simple equation with that system. I tried to write the Einstein equation :

$R_{\\mu\ u} - {1\\over 2} g_{\\mu\ u}R=-\\kappa T_{\\mu\ u}$

while it's so direct with Expressionist. GEEZ ! In Expressionist, it took me seconds to do ! I can't believe it !!

Then use Expressionist.

Everyone's got their own style of working. I find that the LaTeX learning curve is steep, but once you get the knack, it's faster and more powerful.

Quote:
I'm writing in French, and apparently LaTeX can't even print the letters with an accent (Ã¨ Ã© Ã* Ã¹ etc). I have to put some commands to make it working correctly. Please, tell me how to write accents without entering commands !!

In TeXShop, pop up the Latex Panel ( Cmd-= ). The International tab gives you single-click to the accented chars, but if you want to do it from the keyboard, you're going to have to use TeXShop's Macros. Open up the Macros Editor (top of the Macros menu), add in macros for the various accented commands, and bind them to easy to remember keys. While typing hit the key, and voila, the command is inserted.

Alternately, you could set up a Completion trigger to make the command for you, and place the cursor where you want it inside the brackets, but that would require hitting right arrow before continuing.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Try LyX man, it's worth it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
In TeXShop, pop up the Latex Panel ( Cmd-= ). The International tab gives you single-click to the accented chars, but if you want to do it from the keyboard, you're going to have to use TeXShop's Macros. Open up the Macros Editor (top of the Macros menu), add in macros for the various accented commands, and bind them to easy to remember keys. While typing hit the key, and voila, the command is inserted.

Alternately, you could set up a Completion trigger to make the command for you, and place the cursor where you want it inside the brackets, but that would require hitting right arrow before continuing.

This is totally insane ! How is it possible ? It's unbelievable ! We are in 2004, not in 1980 ! Is there really someone out there, non-English, using this system without have gone insane ?

In this system, I have to write, for example :

\\^etre ou ne pas \\^etre oubli\\'e,
j'ai pleur\\'e, l\\a o\\u il \\'etait temps.

while the same on the keyboard is

Ãªtre ou ne pas Ãªtre oubliÃ©.

This LaTeX system is supposed to free me from thinking about layout and presentation, and worry just about my subject. I find that, on the contrary, I constantly have to worry about coding, even to type a letter with an accent. This is so archaic.

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

For me, it is just so much faster, when I want to make a mu to type \\mu rather than have to cursor around some panel of sybols. For me it is as much an issue of time savings as anything else. Leaving the office around 6 pm, knowing that my colleague will still be mousing around in Word five hours later--- that makes it all worth it.

But if its not for you, then so be it. There must be a way to easily enter French accents, but I have never had to deal with this much, so I can't help there.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kali
This is totally insane ! How is it possible ? It's unbelievable ! We are in 2004, not in 1980 ! Is there really someone out there, non-English, using this system without have gone insane ?

Actually, LaTeX is more popular in Europe than it is in the US.

Quote:
This LaTeX system is supposed to free me from thinking about layout and presentation, and worry just about my subject. I find that, on the contrary, I constantly have to worry about coding, even to type a letter with an accent. This is so archaic.

*shrug* I find that it isn't so bad, but then, I'm not using wacky furrin' characters...

I'm curious though... '\\^i' vs. 'opt-i i'... is it really that intrusive? Or does it just look weird to you?

LyX may in fact be a better choice for you, if it allows for opt-i i -> \\^i conversion on the fly.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
I tried LyX. It has a non-Mac like interface, something which reminds me Windoze. Also, it's buggy to death in Panther.

Faledmathematician said :

> when I want to make a mu to type \\mu rather than have to cursor around some panel of sybols.

In Expressionist, I trigger mu with a single key. Faster than to write \\mu.
I can write most equations only by using the keyboard. It is very efficient and satisfying. Typing codes and commands to write a document is very archaic to me and reminds me DOS back in the 80'.

Some solutions, like using Word or another word processor with an equation editor, has some major drawbacks. Using a LaTeX system has other major drawbacks and is (to me) a pain in the a**. Actually, I feel there is no satisfying solution to write efficiently a scientific document in OS X. This is very sad.

I'll probably continue to use Nisus and Expressionist in the Classic mode, and convert my documents to PDF as before, until I find something new which do not exist right now. To me, this is a sign that the OS X environment has not achieved its full maturity.

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

I'm still playing with TeXShop. I like the interface. It is clean and simple. Appears to be very stable. For the moment, I have two MAJOR pain in the butt with it :

1- Using the default macros, chapters titles are in plain English. For example : Chapter 1 : La relativitÃ© gÃ©nÃ©rale. The word "chapter" is in English, and it should be "Chapitre" in French. I don't know how to change that.

2-I can't type normally all the French letters with an accent (Ã©, Ã¨, Ã*, Ã¹, Ãª). I have to put a special command in the text or I have to search the right letter in the international palette. I want to use my keyboard like in any normal word processor or text editor.

Is there a way to change that ? PLEASE !!!!

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Mac mini 2.53 GHz, 4 GB, NVidia's 9400M.
13" MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz, 8 GB, NVidia's 320M.
OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8

Quote:
Originally posted by Kali
I'm still playing with TeXShop. I like the interface. It is clean and simple. Appears to be very stable. For the moment, I have two MAJOR pain in the butt with it :

1- Using the default macros, chapters titles are in plain English. For example : Chapter 1 : La relativitÃ© gÃ©nÃ©rale. The word "chapter" is in English, and it should be "Chapitre" in French. I don't know how to change that.

2-I can't type normally all the French letters with an accent (Ã©, Ã¨, Ã*, Ã¹, Ãª). I have to put a special command in the text or I have to search the right letter in the international palette. I want to use my keyboard like in any normal word processor or text editor.

Is there a way to change that ? PLEASE !!!!

Declare these

\\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}
\\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\\usepackage[francais]{babel}

before the \\begin{document}, then use your keyboard as you always did and your chapters etc. will appear in french. And most importantly... chill down. Learning LaTeX takes time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Me
OzTeX has been ported to MacOS X for a couple of years now. It is a Carbon app that works fine on MacOS 9.x or MacOS X 10.x.

Yes, I know that. Actually, my post was not clear enough: I am talking about OzTeX running under OS 9 along with Alpha, one of the best text editors in our platform. When the transition to OS X began, Alpha lost the train and there is no finalised OS X version today. In the meantime TeXShop made his appearance...

Quote:

You don't anyone who uses FrameMaker? Expressionist? MathType? Equation Editor? MathEQ? MathMagic? Scientific Word/Scientific Workplace? Several of these can export to TeX.

I know actually a couple of cases of mathematicians who tortured themselves in writing thesis and papers in a Mac with MS Word.

Quote:

It would be most cumbersome to use TeX to layout a magazine. However, TeX can layout just about any kind of book and do so very well. The primary reason that scientists use TeX is that their professional journals require TeX.

Of course I was not talking about magazines, but about a more generalised use of LaTeX, outside the academic world. Yes, there is some learning, but still...

And why the professional journals require TeX? Because it is way superior in every aspect from anything easily available to science people. That's why scientists use TeX/LaTeX, that's why professional journals require TeX/LaTeX.
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