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countdown to new g5's... - Page 9

post #321 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
EOL = End of Life, right?

I dunno... if we don't get something thrown at us in the next few weeks, it might be the "end of the line"

I am having to medicate again. Thanks a LOT, Steve...
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post #322 of 411
It seems to me that Apple is leaving it a bit late for intermediate updates. If they don't get a move on they face a greater risk. We all know that Steve said 12 months to reach 3ghz, if they don't get the 2.6's out soon many people will just hang on for the 3ghz machines.

The only way out of this would be for Apple to say that we won't now see 3ghz before January or to release some intermedate machines very soon.
Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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post #323 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
[snipperdesnippersnip] It could also be argued that the PowerMac is not where current efforts need to be expended, the rest of the product line is looking rather sad.

Dave

i agree with that
you'r a b s o l u t e l y right
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post #324 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
For the Love of Steve, can anyone confirm the EOL-ing of the current G5s? Puuuulllleeeeeze?

ditto!!!!!!!!!!!
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We get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more...
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I think I think...therefore, I think I am.

We get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more...
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post #325 of 411
Powermacs are still saying, "same day shipping" on the Apple Online store.\
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People that are passionate about what they do, truly believe in their good cause, have a clear vision and understanding of what they want, those people are heroes.
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post #326 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
Powermacs are still saying, "same day shipping" on the Apple Online store.\

And why wouldn't they?
It is barely six month since the RevA, IBM is only now able to produce 90nm 970s at 2Ghz. We absolutely know nothing about the maximum frequency they have achieved, but it could well be that 2Ghz is the top of the line right now. If this was the case, 2.4Gh+ could be expected only after the 90nm process is further refined - maybe April or May. Which would push 3Ghz to fall/winter.
post #327 of 411
Especially for the Power Mac, there is evidence that one has to wait until the end of March:

Quote:

G4 Trade-in Program for G5s?


"Here's a tip - don't expect new G5's before 3/26/2004. Apple Oz (Australia) have just introduced a trade up program - they give buyers A$1000.00 (appx. $775 US) tradein for a G4 (no specific model mentioned) on a new G5, The program starts today and ends 3/26/2004 so I'm guessing the new G5's are released 3/27/2004 or soon thereafter."

From Xlr8.
post #328 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
And why wouldn't they?
It is barely six month since the RevA, IBM is only now able to produce 90nm 970s at 2Ghz. We absolutely know nothing about the maximum frequency they have achieved, but it could well be that 2Ghz is the top of the line right now. If this was the case, 2.4Gh+ could be expected only after the 90nm process is further refined - maybe April or May. Which would push 3Ghz to fall/winter.

"Only now" ???? If the 90nm is soon to ship in the Xserve, it has been in production for months. I think they are doing a LOT better than that. The avg computer buyer does not care about the fab size, they want Mhz... so even though we know there is fab progress, we also know that a 2Ghz top end for six months is a bit too long- esp given what we have been told about how "amazingly scalable" the 970 is.

You have to know that if SJ made the forecast "within a year" - that he has already seen or has absolute assurance that 3Ghz is not too hard to achieve. AAPL marketing knows the damage of letting people down with statements like that.

Look at the G5 intro video - "We are already working on the next generation of PowerPC G5 processors" - that was back in what, August?

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post #329 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Look at the G5 intro video - "We are already working on the next generation of PowerPC G5 processors" - that was back in what, August?

"Working on" means to me: "we don't have it ready yet". If they didn't have it in August, chances are that they got the first industrial batch in Dec, leaving Jan/Feb to optimizing the process to get better yields.

For all I know:
- there has not been an official announcement from IBM concerning their revised 970 at 90nm.
- No piece running with more than 2Ghz has been sighted.
- From a IBM paper on the 970fx I have seen it was clear that it would support a bus speed of up to 1.1Ghz - translating to top speeds of 2.2Ghz.
- The XServe is not a machine that is sold in the millions. That Apple chose it to introduce the 970fx tells me that they don't have an awful lot of those chips at their disposal.

Jobs may have promised 3Ghz chips to us - but that does not mean he won't push back the delivery of machines with that frequency if the chips do not arrive in time.
post #330 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
[snipperdesnip]
Jobs may have promised 3Ghz chips to us - but that does not mean he won't push back the delivery of machines with that frequency if the chips do not arrive in time.

or sell it to us as an bto with a $4,000.00 (or more) price tag if it is available but has very low yields...
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
[snipperdesnip]
We absolutely know nothing about the maximum frequency they have achieved, but it could well be that 2Ghz is the top of the line right now.
[snippie]

i think at least 2.3Ghz. i don't believe such a mistake as on the canadian apple website comes out of the blue.
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post #331 of 411
Remember, Apple reserves the right to cancel a promotion at any time without notice. The expiration dates they have are not set in stone. You can see what I mean, right here...

Apple reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Terms of Use, at any time. It is your responsibility to check these Terms of Use periodically for changes. Your continued use of the Site following the posting of changes will mean that you accept and agree to the changes. As long as you comply with these Terms of Use, Apple grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited privilege to enter and use the Site.


Found here

Apple reserves the right to change the Terms and Conditions of this offer, at any time without notice.

And here
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post #332 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Especially for the Power Mac, there is evidence that one has to wait until the end of March:



From Xlr8.

So exactly where is this program listed.I cant find it on Apple Austrailias website.The only thing I found is the "Every mac needs .mac" promotion and it ends on March 27th. This trade in stuff doesnt even sound believable. Over 700 US dallors for ANY G4....even one I bought in 1999?
Whats up with that?
post #333 of 411
Quote:
For all I know:
- there has not been an official announcement from IBM concerning their revised 970 at 90nm.
- No piece running with more than 2Ghz has been sighted.
- From a IBM paper on the 970fx I have seen it was clear that it would support a bus speed of up to 1.1Ghz - translating to top speeds of 2.2Ghz.

Remember that pdf was clearly "sanitized".It listed the speeds of the 970fx as "1.4 to 2.0+".In other words they aint gonna tell,by Apples request of course.So dont make too much of the 1.1 ghz bus speed-they just mean it is faster than the current model.I dont know when Apple will release new machines,very soon most likely,but a 2.2 top end doesnt seem probable.If they could only do a 10% increase they wouldnt even bother.Mac followers seem cynical enough already with out that.Smells too much like motoholer and I am not ready to believe IBM is in that boat.
post #334 of 411
Dont forget, Intel just announced a 3.4G P4 - and it will most likely get to 4GHz by about this time next year!.

I know we will get 2.4-2.6G now and 3G by June. Now I know why - I think for Apple to remained competitive in the PRO space, it may need to be shipping 3.4+ by this time next year.

Im not too worried about the PowerMacs, I guess Im more concerned that Intels chips tend to get deployed even in their low end towers. So I think this will put pressure on Apple to deploy G5's into their iMac and Powerbook lines.

Just my observation. \
post #335 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
Im not too worried about the PowerMacs, I guess Im more concerned that Intels chips tend to get deployed even in their low end towers. So I think this will put pressure on Apple to deploy G5's into their iMac and Powerbook lines.


I could think of worse things to happen
post #336 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by cuneglasus
Remember that pdf was clearly "sanitized".It listed the speeds of the 970fx as "1.4 to 2.0+".In other words they aint gonna tell,by Apples request of course.

Or because they are looking at a longer timespan and it reads "1.4 - 2.0Ghz right now, up to 3Ghz later".

The line between reasonable extrapolation and wishful thinking is a thin one...

Quote:
If they could only do a 10% increase they wouldnt even bother.Mac followers seem cynical enough already with out that.Smells too much like motoholer and I am not ready to believe IBM is in that boat.

Just look at the new 90nm P4 intel just announced today: it upped the max clockspeed from 3.2 to 3.4Ghz, whooptidooo, what an increase. What _is_ remarkable about the new P4 is the much longer pipeline showing they did not even try to transition to finer structures and increase the clock frequency but did the transition first and will come out with faster chips in a second stage. This way they avoided having two sources of trouble to worry about at once.

I believe IBM will do precisely the same. 2Ghz/130nm -> 2.2Ghz/90nm now, then 2.2Ghz/90nm -> 3Ghz/90nm in early fall.
post #337 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
Just look at the new 90nm P4 intel just announced today: it upped the max clockspeed from 3.2 to 3.4Ghz, whooptidooo, what an increase. What _is_ remarkable about the new P4 is the much longer pipeline showing they did not even try to transition to finer structures and increase the clock frequency but did the transition first and will come out with faster chips in a second stage. This way they avoided having two sources of trouble to worry about at once.


I think the pipeline went up 2 stages only with the Prescott. 28 up to 30.

The reviews so far have shown that performance gains of the chip are non existant, and indeed it performs at around the same speed as a 2.8-3 ghz P4 only! People are distinctly underwhelmed and percieve the release to be merely a marketing ghz issue at this stage...
post #338 of 411
Link about the new P4, anyone?
post #339 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
... What _is_ remarkable about the new P4 is the much longer pipeline ...

What is really remarkable about the new P4 is that it consumes 90 to 100 watts, meaning that most, if not all, PC cabinet designs do not provide sufficient cooling. Say goodbye to Shuttle cabinets for this power hog.
post #340 of 411
post #341 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by knappa

see here for short test of new P4

Thanks!
post #342 of 411
I think there's a clue on Apple's store right now that the G5 PowerMac is on the verge of being updated. Currently reconditioned dual-2GHz units are being sold for $2,399.00. That's $600 cheaper than "new" prices and typically reconditioned prices are $1-200 cheaper than new, not $600.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that something will happen tomorrow (3rd February) though I assume it's just going to be speed-bumps or something similar, if there's no apparent announcement scheduled.
post #343 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
"Working on" means to me: "we don't have it ready yet". If they didn't have it in August, chances are that they got the first industrial batch in Dec, leaving Jan/Feb to optimizing the process to get better yields.

For all I know:
- there has not been an official announcement from IBM concerning their revised 970 at 90nm.


This is actually due in a couple of weeks! So hang in there, I suspect that both Apple and IBM may be working together on the official announcement.
Quote:
- No piece running with more than 2Ghz has been sighted.

Yeah that is bothersome. The only good indicator we have at this point is that the XServe is running rather cool at 2 GHz.
Quote:
- From a IBM paper on the 970fx I have seen it was clear that it would support a bus speed of up to 1.1Ghz - translating to top speeds of 2.2Ghz.

Unless the bus multiplier is changed. At some point I believe that it will have to change, but we will see a performance hit if other adjustments are not made. One of those adjustments would have been an improved L2 cache. Not seeing an imporved L2 cache does leave us with a little hope of e-bus scaling. The fact that they published a top speed is worrisome though.
Quote:
- The XServe is not a machine that is sold in the millions. That Apple chose it to introduce the 970fx tells me that they don't have an awful lot of those chips at their disposal.

The way the XServe was introduced and the lack of other introductions tells me that Apple had nothig else for the show. Apparently XServe is not shipping yet, that is itself an issue but should not be an inddicator of CPU problems only. They could just as well be having issues with the Northbridge.

Or they could simply be waiting for IBM to release their chip officially. With out real data we can infer alot of things, mostly bad things. I do have concern about published info from IBM, that appears to lock the FSB at 1.1GHz. So I'm in a sense with you, until official information is released it does not look real good.
Quote:

Jobs may have promised 3Ghz chips to us - but that does not mean he won't push back the delivery of machines with that frequency if the chips do not arrive in time.

post #344 of 411
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
post #345 of 411
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
post #346 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
...The way the XServe was introduced and the lack of other introductions tells me that Apple had nothig else for the show. ...

Jobs: "You mean the only new hardware we have I can show is a rackmount server?!"

Jozwiak: "Er, um, yes."

Jobs: "What about the iMac? The tower? Powerbooks? iBooks? Tablet? Nothing's ready?"

Jozwiak: "Uhhh... that's right."

That's really scary, Wiz. What you're implying is that if there was going to be anything released in February or March, or possibly even April (last year's 17" powerbooks), they would have announced it at the show, while they had everyone's attention.

IOW, there aren't any updates coming anytime soon at all...
post #347 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by AirSluf
Sorry to burst you bubble but the reconditioned DP 2.0's have been that price since long before xmas. The single 1.6/1.8's went down by $100 each when the dual 1.8s started shipping.

Oh, ok. That's disappointing, I thought there were reasons to be looking forward for a moment.
post #348 of 411
Thread Starter 
sigh... another week of waiting...
post #349 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
sigh... another week of waiting...


....try another 2 months of waiting. That is how long it will be.
post #350 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Especially for the Power Mac, there is evidence that one has to wait until the end of March.

More evidence today from Hardmac. Like mooseman said .
post #351 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
More evidence today from Hardmac. Like mooseman said .

Or this could be a way to reduce inventory of the CURRENT G5s to make way for the revamped lineup.
post #352 of 411
Thread Starter 
you know, as crazy as apple has been lately, i dont think anyone other than steve himself actually knows whats going on. let's not forget that ibook g4 updates were very quiet, so i dont think anything other than steve's "feel" for the company is going to affect release dates.
post #353 of 411
There have been rebates/trade-in offers prior to other releases, but the date of expire has not been an indication of the releasedate of new models...or? Don't remember
post #354 of 411
Here is what Steve does. Every Tuesday he gets out a dollar coin and flips it. Heads he releases new computers, tails he doesnt. So far, it has all been tails.
Come checkout SetiLogger X
Dual 3Ghz G5 coming soon!!!
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Dual 3Ghz G5 coming soon!!!
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post #355 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by sls
There have been rebates/trade-in offers prior to other releases, but the date of expire has not been an indication of the releasedate of new models...or? Don't remember

To my recollection, it has been a pretty good indicator. But don't expect updates the day after it expires either.

The only one I recall specifically was the rebate offer on PowerMacs that ended just before WWDC last year, when the G5s came out. But there are folks on AI that keep track of these things better than I do...
post #356 of 411
At least Mac-users look forward to new HW/SW-releases. Intel users think: "Oh no, 100W, slower, longer pipline, new socket" and Windows-users think:"Oh no, new Win-version, my two months old PC is outdated. Now I need one of those new Intel CPUs"

What rumorpages have "foreseen" (especially macosrumors) regarding PMG5 speedbumps:
jan 6th
jan 24th (and even 20th-23rd)
jan 26th
feb 1st (at least Janet did some advertising..)

and now I read 26th of March and when 10.3.3 is released...\
post #357 of 411
Quote:
Originally posted by sls
and now I read 26th of March and when 10.3.3 is released...\

end of february!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i've a bet on this... if it would be true, i'd feel so cool
go AAPL, go to $70 !!! © 2004
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go AAPL, go to $70 !!! © 2004
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post #358 of 411
why?
post #359 of 411
Thread Starter 
hey i was jsut checkin out the apple store--no more refurb dual 2GHz g5s!!! that probbaly means nothing, but oh well... it's something.
post #360 of 411
http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu....004-02-03#1522

As showed by many people by now, but look at the first news from the top "Next week, the HyperTransport Technology Consortium" HyperTransport 2 is in the works, could this be an indication for not to distant future hardware. If this is so, PM get HyperTransport 2 and iMac could get just regular HT.

I think they will announce new hardware late FEb or Mid March.
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