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Quality of LCD screens...?

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
The Blue Meanie is planning to buy one of the fine and dandy new G4 iMacs to replace his ageing DV soon, and saw one in all pearly curvaceousness for the first time in a UK PC chain store on Friday. His retinas were suitably massaged by the sight - but what about the LCD screen?! The Blue Meanie is not used to colour LCD screens and was shocked by how pale and washed-out and fuzzy the 15" floating wonder seemed in comparison to the crisp sharpness of CRT? It can't be that bad!! Tell the Blue Meanie the usually clueless assistants in the store had set the monitor brightness wrongly, or he was looking at it from the wrong angle or that it was all down to the harsh lighting in the store or something! LCD screens have to be better than that.... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #2 of 33
obviously something was screwed up as the iMac's screen is very bright and sharp and IMo has very good color reproduction.. better than Apple's own 15 inch ASD.


Perhaps they had it on a lower resolution which WILL make it look a little blurry
post #3 of 33
i've seen a few of the new iMacs, and every one had a better looking picture than my Sony trinitrons.

they rock.
post #4 of 33
The iMac's LCD is amazing. Something had to be screwed up.
post #5 of 33
Sounds like the brightness was way down and as stated above the resolution was wrongly set. I saw the iMac last week at a local Apple re-seller and it was extemely bright and sharp... as sharp as the Cinema Display to these eyes, and this was in a bright flourescent ambiance.
Things Ain't What They Seem!
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post #6 of 33
i should have looked at this thread before starting mine. I just saw the new imac yesterday for the first time. I also thought that the screen was pretty washed out. I checked the resolution... it was at 1024x768... the color sync profile was set to "imac LCD" and the brightness was a little more than 3/4 of the way up. I watched the video for the new imac (for those of you who think we've gone to far...) on the new imac and it seemed completely washed out when it came to light colours. This is something that really concerns me and was wondering if someone else with the new imac could watch this video and tell me if they see what I'm seeing.
post #7 of 33
True, I also was shocked when I saw the pale colors on my 2nd hand Powerbook. Especially the light tints. I can't even make websites with it, I bought an Apple Colorsync Display to do the work. The lcd displays are very sharp though and the new iMac lcd is much better then my powerbook lcd screen. But it's still not good enough for me.
post #8 of 33
I find it hard to believe that you can't design web sites on an LCD screen. While colour accuracy is important in web design it's hardly critical. Consider the myriad of end users viewing your site on everything from a TV to a 15inch display at 640x480 to someone viewing it on a cinema display. Now print design is another matter entirely. I find the 17inch LCD and cinema display to be fine for colour accuracy.
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post #9 of 33
I would like some more input from those who have the new imac. If you're working in photoshop... and you make a light blue... really light. Like 3% cyan. can you see this colour on a LCD screen or does it just stay white? Are these screens good enough for you designers out there?
post #10 of 33
I'm sure you are aware that LCD screens have less viewabiity range then CRTs. If you look at an iMac screen standing up and the screen was facing forwards and not tiltled up then it would look washed out. The two LCD iMacs that I have seen, one at CompUSA and one at a Mac Reseller had excellent brightness and sharpness. Both were titled up for best viewing. Just a thougtht.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]</p>
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post #11 of 33
just repeating... excellent quality on both the imac and 12.1 ibook- both screens are very sharp and bright... more so than their Ti and larger counterparts.
post #12 of 33
Thread Starter 
Hmmm, I'm not quite sure whether I'm reassured or whether mackie has got me worried again. I don't find it difficult to believe that the idiot assistants at this particular store (PC World for you Brit readers) might have set the monitor wrongly. On the other hand, perhaps it was just the angle - I'll go back to the store and have another look...
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #13 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by The Blue Meanie:
<strong>..... - I'll go back to the store and have another look...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do it, the viewing angle is very critical with these. Apple usually uses Samsung TFTs, which provides the best among the industry these days in TFT quality. If looking from more or less than the required angle of +-60 degree with respect to the surface it sure looks blurred washed out, blue-ish (which sort of fits your overall style then ) and faded.

I have a Sony 15" TFT and the viewing angle is outstanding, but others I saw were much less convincing when bent or swiveled .

Give it a try!
post #14 of 33
Maybe it was the third person talk that caused the iMacs screen to get washed out.
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post #15 of 33
I think you people need to calibrate your displays. Never once have I unpacked an Apple display and been happy with the default color profile. Go into the display calibrator assistant and customize it for *you*. It should also be noted that the Mac default gamma settings produce a much lighter picture than Windows default gamma settings... yet another reason to customize that color profile.

I've been using my SGI 1600SW displays for years, and they've been just fine for the interactive work I do. When I have print work, I get it as close as I can on my LCD, and let Andrews (The big local printhouse around Boston) match it up with their printers, and I tweak it on site in their color rooms from there.
post #16 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>Maybe it was the third person talk that caused the iMacs screen to get washed out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You what? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #17 of 33
Thread Starter 
Some interesting points there M3D Jack ...cheers

[ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>
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Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
The Blue Meanie went back to the store - at the esteemed Kate's suggestion - and yes, positioning yourself directly in front of the display, rather than viewing it from a standing position - does make a big difference. It still seems a little pixelated compared to CRT monitors but I suppose I just need to get used to that
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #19 of 33
The angle of light hiting the monitor can sumtimes effect the brightness of the screen,
especially the flourescent lighting used in most shops now.
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Because the people who are crazy enough to think thay can change the world, are the ones who do
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post #20 of 33
I agree there with alpha mac. I've found color fidelity to be great on my flatscreen iMac. IMHO the lcd on it is the brightest I've seen, almost annoyingly so. I've also found the vertical tilt angle important for color (this is where I agree with alphamac). Anyhow, the Taq loves his flat screen iMac's LCD. I hope blue meanie hasn't started a third person talk trend in "AI ! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
huh?
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huh?
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post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Taq:
[QBI hope blue meanie hasn't started a third person talk trend in "AI ! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

And why not?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #22 of 33
Because, third person talk is so Seinfeld, and Seinfeld is so 2 years ago.
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post #23 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by The Blue Meanie:
<strong>

And why not?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Because it's very annoying.
post #24 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by M3D Jack:
<strong>I think you people need to calibrate your displays. </strong><hr></blockquote>

last time i did that (on my powerbook G3) an entire vertical column of pixels burnt out down the center of the display. it happened suddenly and all at once. even if it was a coincidence, i am scared to touch those display settings ever again!
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post #25 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>

last time i did that (on my powerbook G3) an entire vertical column of pixels burnt out down the center of the display. it happened suddenly and all at once. even if it was a coincidence, i am scared to touch those display settings ever again! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. How does that happen? Anybody know? Thoth has a vested interest as he still owns a PB G3 and may someday decide he wishes to calibrate said computer's monitor.

Did they offer to fix it for you (Mac's girl) w/o fee? Thoth is sure he knows the answer, but one must ask the question.

Sorry EmAn.

Thoth

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: Thoth2 ]</p>
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post #26 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Thoth2:
<strong>

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. How does that happen? Anybody know? Thoth has a vested interest as he still owns a PB G3 and may someday decide he wishes to calibrate said computer's monitor.

Did they offer to fix it for you (Mac's girl) w/o fee? Thoth is sure he knows the answer, but one must ask the question.

Sorry EmAn.

Thoth

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: Thoth2 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

When I was working as a tech when those PowerBooks were new, I had a couple come into the shop that just had faulty displays. It was mainly with the original batch of the PowerBook G3 where the different screen sizes were BTO. All were replaced under warranty, nobody had any good answer as to why it happened. I never had a customer say that it happened because of trying to calibrate the screen, and after searching the ServiceSource TIL, I didn't find anyting there either...
post #27 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by M3D Jack:
<strong>

When I was working as a tech when those PowerBooks were new, I had a couple come into the shop that just had faulty displays. It was mainly with the original batch of the PowerBook G3 where the different screen sizes were BTO. All were replaced under warranty, nobody had any good answer as to why it happened. I never had a customer say that it happened because of trying to calibrate the screen, and after searching the ServiceSource TIL, I didn't find anyting there either...</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes, i do have one of those 1st batch powerbooks, with the 12.1 display. however, the screen thing only happened this past october... just 2 years and 11 months after i bought it. had i purchased a 3-year warranty it would have just barely been covered. i cant swear that it wasnt a coincidence, but the line just appeared within 24 hours of calibrating the screen. just out of curiosity, how much does it cost to fix?

thoth2 --can i still file a lawsuit? what's the statute of limitations on this? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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post #28 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>

yes, i do have one of those 1st batch powerbooks, with the 12.1 display. however, the screen thing only happened this past october... just 2 years and 11 months after i bought it. had i purchased a 3-year warranty it would have just barely been covered. i cant swear that it wasnt a coincidence, but the line just appeared within 24 hours of calibrating the screen. just out of curiosity, how much does it cost to fix?

thoth2 --can i still file a lawsuit? what's the statute of limitations on this? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

If you get it done out of warranty through any service provider, it's going to be pretty expensive. In fact, I don't think the actual AASP's are even allowed to repair PowerBook LCDs anymore. Around the time I left Apple was tossing out a bunch of new rules. In that scenario, you could take your PowerBook into an AASP, and then they'll send it to Texas for Apple to repair it directly... and that of course means you're paying a premium for the parts and labor.

Your best bet would be to try and find a replacement screen on ebay, or maybe at <a href="http://www.shrevesystems.com," target="_blank">www.shrevesystems.com,</a> or one of the other sites. You may even be able to find an entire lid to a PowerBook G3, and in the process upgrade from that 12.1" screen. You would have to do the repair yourself, but to be quite honest, it isn't the most difficult thing in the world.

If you live in Boston, find the part and I'll repair it for you ;-) If you're adventurous, I can send you the service manual for the thing, and it will walk you through the step by step process of replacing it.

As for the lawsuit, I don't think you can really sue Apple for this... Things like this happen, and it's out of warranty. This was pretty common with the 12" screens...

Best,

-j4
post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Thoth2:
<strong>

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. How does that happen? Anybody know? Thoth has a vested interest as he still owns a PB G3 and may someday decide he wishes to calibrate said computer's monitor.

Did they offer to fix it for you (Mac's girl) w/o fee? Thoth is sure he knows the answer, but one must ask the question.

Sorry EmAn.

Thoth

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: Thoth2 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Blue Meanie thinks this is a particularly well-written reply <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>
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All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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All wor k and no play makes Jack a dull boyy
Alll work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
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post #30 of 33
This thread is odd.

BTW, I've used a new iMac and the LCD rocks. It is a very sweet computer, I think Apple has a hit on their hands.

Junkyard Dawg thinks the new iMac's display rocks. Yes, he really does!

:o
post #31 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by M3D Jack:
<strong>

Your best bet would be to try and find a replacement screen on ebay, or maybe at <a href="http://www.shrevesystems.com," target="_blank">www.shrevesystems.com,</a> or one of the other sites. You may even be able to find an entire lid to a PowerBook G3, and in the process upgrade from that 12.1" screen. You would have to do the repair yourself, but to be quite honest, it isn't the most difficult thing in the world.

If you live in Boston, find the part and I'll repair it for you ;-) If you're adventurous, I can send you the service manual for the thing, and it will walk you through the step by step process of replacing it.

-j4</strong><hr></blockquote>

really...i didnt know i could replace the powerbook's screen or entire lid. if i could get a bigger one, it would be cool. i'll look for one. would i able to salvage a screen form a later model powerbook also, like the bronze keyboard series? i hope it's not going to be too expensive. i live in NY...downstate, but i really appreciate your offer of repairing it for me. it probably requires quite a bit of electrical wiring...no?
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post #32 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>

really...i didnt know i could replace the powerbook's screen or entire lid. if i could get a bigger one, it would be cool. i'll look for one. would i able to salvage a screen form a later model powerbook also, like the bronze keyboard series? i hope it's not going to be too expensive. i live in NY...downstate, but i really appreciate your offer of repairing it for me. it probably requires quite a bit of electrical wiring...no?</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'd have to actually look at the different generations again, but I can pretty definitively state that a later rev won't work. Aside from what they may have changed with where the wires from the screen enter into the actual unit, I believe the latches for closing it are a bit different.

The wiring isn't too tricky. As I remember, the pain was getting the connectors from the display to plug back in properly to the actual computer. It's really just a few screws that secure the lid to the latches on the actual unit. It is a little bit of work, as to get the lid off, you have to disassemble good amount of the PowerBook itself. Just as long as you keep track of the screws it isn't so bad. Takes about 20 minutes or so to disassemble the entire thing. I think I've probably replaced about every part inside those machines.

You'll need a set of jewelers screwdrivers, and I think you may need a Torx driver as well for some of the screws. Anyhow, just let me know, and I'll send you a PDF for taking the thing apart.
post #33 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>This thread is odd.

BTW, I've used a new iMac and the LCD rocks. It is a very sweet computer, I think Apple has a hit on their hands.

Junkyard Dawg thinks the new iMac's display rocks. Yes, he really does!

:o </strong><hr></blockquote>


Glad to see you've finally come around. I guess seeing is believing. BTW, remember how hard-up you were about the V.I.S. ? Well, FYI, Samsung has recently released a 1280x1024 16" TFT-LCD panel. Interesting, no? Perhaps iMac will go to 16" around the time that people expect it to go 17". Same res, might be pretty good, and it's cheaper than 17, so it could even happen sooner. Dreaming, but who knows?
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