The Reinvention of Apple Computer - Page 4

Well, I'm not suggesting that it can't go poorly - it most certainly can. I think it's clear that if Apple does get into this situation, they need to do it rather carefully. Does that mean that they cannot do it at all? I don't think so.

Overall I'm skeptical that Apple will get into this business, but given that Apple's CEO is the head of one of the more respected content companies out there, I don't think it can be dismissed too quickly.

Congragulations Amorph!

hmmm.....I had a feeling about this post. Now Apple is dividing into two devisions...

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040520.html

I think this is the reinvention of Apple Computer.

Apple will eventually become a software/electronics DLD company.

I think the time to test the portability of 'X' may come sooner than we think. eg I'm not sure I see 'Macs' being made in 10 years time.

The 'iPod' division is the writing on the wall. But I don't think that means Apple or 'X' or its software is doomed.

The 'Mac' may have to be re-thought in much the way Apple re-thought its politics to 'x86' customers with iPod and iTunes.

We'll see.

Lemon Bon Bon

Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.

I disagree with that. The mac has been Apple's banner product for over two decades now. It has gone through many transformations, trying to stay with the times, and sometimes defining the times.

I agree, the Mac as we know it today will probably change and morph into something different and better. That is just the way a product lifecycle as successful as the Macintosh goes.

I really think they are going towards a future where the machine can interactivly (sp?) react to you. There was a business commercial made in the mid-80's from Apple. It had a "PowerBook"-like computer that talked back to the user, as well as answered the phone, and supported video phone. It was a really well-done commercial (anyone know where to find it on the web??).

The point is, that appears where Apple is going. iChat AV is an example of this, along with iTunes, iMovie, etc etc. However, the real clincher is that they are diversifying (sp?) themselves into much more than a computer company. They are going to be much more than a DLD company, or a music company. Where they are going from here, no one knows. However, it will involve the Macintosh, it will involve the iPod, and it will involve several other DLD that will make every one of us much happier in our lives.

here's a stream of that movie...

http://ox.curtin.edu.au/streaming/knowledgenav.html

Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.

You are a heretic. I can't even imagine Jobs killing Apple's flagship brand, Macintosh, which has always been associated with Apple, which made Apple possible, which helped Apple survive, which has been a subculture for 20 years. Man, you deserve a visit of Inquisition officers. Seriously.

That certainly WAS the case but now the Mac is more of a anchor thrown overboard. That anchor has dug in deep and needs to be cut before the pending storm arrives.

True things change but the question is does the change come fast enough to save its life. To grab that future, Apple needs serious horse power under that hood without a huge inflation in price.

You are very optimistic about the Mac. It simply will disappear form Apples product line if they can't get sales up. It is pretty obvious that this is an issue. If your sales are declining quarter on quarter then eventually you hit zero. Of course most companies swign the axe first but you get my point.

Look at it this way if you listen carefully to what is being said in the quarterly meetings and other contacts that the Apple executive staff has with the outside world you will begin to realize that they (the executives) are starting to see the same problem. How they go about addressing that seems to be an issue, their thirst for revenue is driving off customers. In effect they are in a spiral, each attempt to increase revenue drives off more customers and fewer customers result in attempts to increase revenue. Since all these revenue increases are done thorugh higher prices or the sale of outdated components the cycle has become very noticeable.

What really amazes me is that the G5 XServer shows that Apple does have the ability to address customer needs. Why they can't do that with their other hardware is beyond me.

Business is Business and Apple is failing to find an acceptable marketing solution to Mac sales. So like the hungery farmer he will get out his axe and cut the head of this useless beast off.

That is one way to look at it the other is that they come up with a marketing solution that works and dramatically increase market share. We all know how well that has been working lately.

Lets face it Apple set a goal of 200,000 PowerMac per quarter, and couldn't make it. Which by the way isn't much of a world wide sales goal. To remain a player in the industry they need to ship 2X that IN A MONTH. We certianly don't see any plans to make that happen. Frankly though faster CPU's may help there is a lot more wrong here than just that. REv B PowerMacs are not going to be a hit with out a fresh marketing approach. If they can't find that successful approach then the Mac is dead.

Thanks
dave

Seesh. Macs are going no where. Get over it, it's not going to happen. Just silly.

Sorry, i don't mean to get personal but you sound abit like a first year Business major who hasn't gotten beyond chapter 5 in the text book.

I doubt Apple is losing money right now. It has $4 million in the bank. It needs to evolve and it does need to change its marketing, but what sets Apple apart now is some good design (which could and has moved to the Wintel world) and the Mac OS. So why not continue the same?!?!?! Make great cross-over products and sustain and develop the Mac OS!!! Each pushes innovation in the other. That is what has sustained Apple over the decades when market forces would and did knock off many other companies of the same size as Apple.

The minute Apple stops making Macs, the world will depend upon Dell and HP and Sony to advance the personal computer. Why let that happen?

You have some good concerns, but business and life within the "free" market system goes way beyond Business 101 textbooks.

Fixed that for you.

You don't understand one thing: failing at the world domination is not the end of the world. Apple is not losing money on Macs. Yes, they cannot sell as many Macs as they'd like to. And they rarely could. 4 billion in cash may make Apple seem a small company, compared to MS or Warner Bros, but it's still a whole lot of money. Apple survived much harder times when their hardware sucked. Now it's only a matter of one speed bump.

Macs are not going anywhere. Point. Killing the Macintosh brand is nothing but shooting yourself in the foot.

I'm glad some people in here set these accountain types "gloomy future outlook" in perspektive. The Mac going away? sure...according to some it's been going away for about 15 years! So sure it's going away

The thing that makes me quinch is when people have the abillity to sound clever, but lack the abillity to research facts. Why would the one out of two companies who actually made money during the resent IT crisis, suddenly decide that they are doing poorly? Can't you see you got it all wrong here?
Get over the "we are sooo small we might as well all lay down and die" attitude! The Mac is actually doing quite ok AND BE HAPPY ABOUT IT This is gooooood news

Sincerly

Brian Zebeaune 8)

The first post said Powerbook G4's with impressive new internals, running at up to 1.8 Ghz, in Q1 04. We all know how that turned out.

Its pure speculation, all of it.

I'm confused about the reasoning of some people.

Some attributes of the Macintosh Line.
========================
Valuable name recognition among consumers
Great reviews from critics (or at the least, controversial and high-publicity)
High-customer satisfaction of its computers
Heavy Investments in the distribution network
The fact that Apple is still making a profit with the Mac
and the High public perception that Apple = Macintosh

So how does that mean that Apple has to axe the Macintosh?

My thinking is a lot more simple.

PowerMac sales bad=Make better PowerMacs

Exactly!


That is the exact reason PowerMac sales are off, but they are not always off.
Not many people wanted to buy the 2x 2GHz G5 PowerMac. I didn't. Because the PowerMacs were not better, or as good as they were made out to be. Not compared to the dual 3GHz+ XEONS. I wanted one (G5) right after WWDC 2003 keynote, but I waited to see all the independent testing first. I saw it, and I didn't like the results I saw. I thought Apple bull sh*tted their way through most things in those demo's.

I know a ton of People that are PC users that wait to see if IBM, and Apple are going to get these processors up to par, and ahead of the x86 computers. If they did they would buy them. Apple has great stuff, but they keep letting the hardware stay so far behind the top x86 computers it's not even funny.
If they get this Machine ready by WWDC PowerMac sales will be beyond what Apple imagines. Not only Mac users watch them. As long as it's not a total BS demo.

And changing the name isn't going to do them a bit of good. It will probably loose more people than gain people. The only reason I don't have a Dual AMD Operon system is because I am waiting because I want another PowerMac. A better PowerMac.
If there isn't one though I do have a x86 system I've been configuring for a long time, and I'm excited about it. THe PC side has a lot of cool stuff, and my case alone is really wicked. So I'm not going to let it get me down again this year.
But as a life long Macintosh user, and a loyal PowerMac buyer/user I'm waiting to see how it turns out first.

Apple isn't dieing but the Mac is. Marketshare has been declining every year since the advent of a "useable" Windows.

Wrong.

Marketshare decline just means that PC growth exceeded Mac growth. Considering that Apple only goes after selected markets you can't really look at marketshare like you'd think.

I know many people who buy a new $600 PC every year only because advertisers convince them their hardware is out of date. That doesn't influence any marketshare. But those who calculate marketshares count every purchase.

I don't believe incorrectly based or biased statistics.

That's not necessarily a positive thing you know...

My gut feeling would be that many of the negative misconceptions about Mac are just that: about the Mac. It may very well be useful to drop the Mac brand and allow Apple a clean slate to build a OS X brand without the 'Mac'(renamed Apple OS X or something, I don't know). Hell of a gamble though.

Mr. Jobs is a visionary...the day we foresee his actions...is the day....well it just won't happen...

How are unit sales and profits? That's more important.

Good point...and thanks for correcting my little $3.9 billion error.

I am willing to believe this post by Faeylyn. Since his first two posts, we have already seen the PB and the iB make steps in the direction noted. Sure, they are not there yet, but then WWDC hasn't made it... and 2004 isn't over yet. These specs are great, and if it holds to be true, I predict in another 10 - 15 years, MicroSh!t supporters will be groaning that at least they USED to have 95%.

Has anyone even heard anything about the suit against Apple Computer by Apple Records since the UK courts gave the 'thumbs-up' for the lawsuit? I know that I haven't, and I spend almost every non-working hour on the 'net reading every Apple/Mac-related article I can find. The whole direction that Faeylyns' posts indicate this would take is absolutely incredible!

Think about it!! Yes, it would be competing with other labels, but with contracts already signed and in order, the other labels would have no choice, without a specific non-compete clause, to accept it for the time-being. Sure, they could threaten to not re-sign, but with the foundation that iTMS has, and the fact that Apple Studios could offer more as a record/movie label - the stongest online presence, which we all know is the future of the industry; better commissions; less expense for distribution; exclusive soundtrack offerings through the movie studio side of it... hell the online presence and better artist payouts would be enough for almost every new artist to want to sign with Apple Studios, as well as enough to want to make most artists switch... think of all of the budding new artists that would come to play - the other labels will begin to realize that they cannot compete. Remember - "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!"... and this is exactly what the other labels will do.

Faeylyn.. Can you offer us anything more??

I see things the way you do. I have a feeling about this post that tells me this guy knows something and remember, even Apple doesn't know how high their PowerBooks will be in 12 months, they have a roadmap, but reality is different sometimes.

If Apple did what Faeylyn proposes, it would litterly change the world! Already now journalists are writing this because of iTMS and the iPod...they will be at a loss of words if this manifests. They will need shock treatment!

Regarding Faeylyn forecast of Apple Records. So what is then to stop Sony records to only offer Sony signed artist music on Sony Connect? I think Apple will run into a brick wall if they try to sign artists and make the music exclusive on iTunes. Can you spell ani-trust?

I guess i can't spell it either. lol.

Mac growth?

Now I don't mean to be a downer here but Mac Sales have been steadily declining over the last 8 or 9 years. They're actually selling over 30% fewer computers now than they were in their hey-day. OS:X and the G5 have only managed to stabilize sales, but not turn it around.

C.

Sure... Sony could try!! But who would want to sign with Sony from that moment on. If Sony was to keep its signed artists exclusive to their online store, they would lose sales.

No matter what anyone says about Apple not having the market share that they claim, they do. iTunes and the iPod was one of the smartest moves that Apple has made in a while. They know it, and they're not stopping there. Jobs knows what he has to do now. He has learned where he made his mistakes, and he won't allow himself to make them again.

Just to slightly prove my example... Right before iTunes for Windows was released, I had a friend who was spending hours after hours trying to use Real Player and MusicMatch and WMedia Player to organize his music. He was going insane calling me every couple of hours.. "Man I can't find my music.. where's it at?" This was getting annoying as I couldn't get any work done trying to help him solve his OS problems. When iTunes for Winblows came out, I downloaded the installer, burnt it to CD, and handed it to him, telling him that I use a Mac for a reason, and for him to try this. Needless to say, I only received one other call, and that was to tell me thanks. He loves it and says his next comp will be a Mac. Sure, he doesn't know computers from a hole in the wall, but after getting a hold of one, I know he'll never turn back.

People are starting to learn that they have been 'herded' into believing that Windows is THE only OS to use. They are starting to see the alternatives, and 'Mac' is one of those alternatives that have been in the back of their minds through their existence on Winblows. Now that they are tired of bloatware and are searching for an alternative, they will actually look at a Mac and give that double-take... literally. Mac computers and OS X are on the way up. Poor sales are only a price issue, and I believe that will soon change.

Also, who will want to sign with record companies that are suing their friends and family, and even their thirteen year-old sister. I mean c'mon. There are articles in the news about the industry holding back on royalties, artists not making as much as before.. and then articles about iTunes as THE PREMIERE online music store, online stores being THE next big thing for music, the iPod as the HOT ITEM of the year. Who wouldn't want to sign with iTunes is the real question. And think about how easy iTunes is making it for artists to sign up. As easy as Apple is known for making things.

Apple is coming in to their own. Anyone remember that fat annoying girl from junior high that all of a sudden blossomed into a hottie? Hello everyone.. Meet Apple... you remember.. the one everyone always made fun of..

I don't know if your "brad" but I listened to your music on Amplitune I think was the name? Let me tell you something: you do everything but suck !

Love your music! Keep it up

One word: commoditisation

Hardware is a commodity now.
Operating Systems are next up.

If Apple competes in a commodity market it will fail.

Applications are not commodity.
Apple is pushing hard to get into applications.

An interesting flip side is that Apple has been able to revisit commodity markets ( iPod ) very succesfully. I think they can repeat this. But every time they set the bar in a commodity market others will aim for it.

iPod works because music is a commodity. If you look at any commodity market, the products in it really fail to achieve their potential. Music, phones, video, gps. Apple can walk into any one of these markets and turn it on its head.