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That's it...I'm OFFICIALLY on record: new iMac will be two-piece unit - Page 2

post #41 of 79
That could indeedy be a neat solution. It needn't be too expensive either, but I think the cables really aren't that much of an issue. One power line. One ADC line. One phone-line/DSL whatever... and speakers. Not so bad. Don't forget ADC. I hate USB audio, but since ADC carries USB anyway, they could build a 15" studio display with two small speakers in the feet. This could explain the new order of 15" LCDs.

But seriously, I've seen a few cubes, and they never look cluttered or busy. It's really just one more cable. Very doable.
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post #42 of 79
Apple would never replace the iMac with a cheaper cube. What kind of revolution would that be? Reintroducing old products to replace current ones? That requires no thought on Apples part except 'Hey, cut the iMac, and start pumping out Cubes again!' Maybe you are thinking of some PC company <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> .
post #43 of 79
Aaaah, pscates. You've fallen into the AppleInsider Trap. You have failed to realize what you want out of your Apple is not what your average consumer wants out of his Apple.

You see the cube and see simplicity. Joe Average sees things to plug together, just like that dag-nabbit VCR he can't get to work. Remember the first iMac commercial ever (link, anyone?). First it showed a PC with wires upon wires upon wires. Then it showed an iMac, with a single power plug. Apple has sold 5 million (right?) iMacs under their current strategy. Why, oh why, would they abandon this?

The average consumer becomes exponentially more confused with each additional choice. Keep it simple, make it competitive, and the iMacs will sell.

So, pscates, I am officially on record: new iMac will be a one-piece unit. If you are right, I'll change my name to "pscates proved Pook wrong."

- Pook
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post #44 of 79
The cube was not two pieces, it was at least 6. (Monitor, cube, powerbrick, 2 speakers, keyboard.)

The imac is very simple and portable. I think they will keep it that way. Especially if it is part of or is the hub.
And yes, it will be a 2 piece unit. Imac + Keyboard.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: kcmac ]</p>
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post #45 of 79
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I guess you all are right. I'm not putting myself in the place of "Joe Consumer" who DOES get intimidated by even the appearance of complexity (not that ONE CABLE is complex...but I digress...).

Oh well.

Okay, then...I don't know WHAT in the hell this new iMac is going to look like. It'll be gorgeous and cool to the fifth power, I'm sure.

Just one more week.

I just have a lot more riding on this than past keynotes because I'm actually looking to buy this time, so I feel a stronger connection/pull to next week's Expo because it may end up playing a major role in me parting with $1500 of my money!



I can't believe a photo or line drawing or SOMETHING hasn't been leaked. This has possibly been one of Apple's best kept secrets because there's NOTHING firm or even halfway substantial on it.

For the record (and as a response to a few of you in this thread), I don't think there needs to be a THIRD desktop model to muddy the waters and occupy so weird "no man's land" between the iMac and the G4 towers.

If done right, the iMac could (and should) fill the roll nicely of consumer/education/prosumer/desktop publisher/student/gamer/soccer mom/grandparent/newbie computer, with specs and features that more than meet the need for these types of users.

I don't see the need to have tons of different iMacs, differentiated by colors, MHz, etc.

The best thing Apple has done in a LONG time, IMO, is what they did to the iBook last spring: one model, 1 clock speed, same I/O, etc. and simply differentiate the line by optical drive.

That made it SO easy for non-Apple geeks to figure out exactly which one they wanted: "Do I want a DVD or a CD burner? OR, do I want both?".

BAM! Genius.

I hope some of that thinking finds its way to the new iMac.

When the iMac first came out, it was (for a few months, anyway) one model, one color, etc.

I think THAT'S what appeals to people, especially newbies and the traditional iMac customer. Granted the color thing helped and was certainly cool, but that's pretty much faded now, as we all know.

I would love to see simply a FAST and POWERFUL iMac unveiled next week that pretty much comes in only one or two models: CD-ROM and Combo Drive. Why make people choose between watching movies or burning CDs? Those are both cool, useful things. I say give them a basic CD-ROM drive, or a full-tilt combo drive, with several hundred bucks separating the two.

For people who already own external, FAST (16x and above) CD writers and who already have a nice DVD player hooked to their TV in the den, they could simply get a powerful new iMac and not pay for a drive(s) they don't need and won't use.

Then for guys like me who a) have neither a burner OR a DVD player and b) love the idea of everything being neat, clutter-free and self-contained, we can pop for the combo drive model. Given a choice, most people probably WILL go for a combo drive.

They're not even making it an option in the TiBooks now...it's simply the stock drive!

But this new iMac should have the same fast processor, same zippy video card that FINALLY will appeal somewhat to someone who does the game thing, generous hard drive space, etc.

They have to come out swinging next Monday morning because, IMO, the iMac has been on life support and totally languishing for a year or so now, given only cosmetic and VERY minor enhancements.

They need to pull the cover off something next week that honestly makes every damn one of us here go "OHMIGOD...I don't even NEED an iMac, but I'm buying one of those things TODAY!!!"



I hope all this waiting and hoping and speculating will not have been in vain.

BTW, I'm only mildly conceding that the new iMac won't be two-piece. I reserve the right to hold on to a little piece of my wish/idea...just in case.

post #46 of 79
[quote]pscates - The best thing Apple has done in a LONG time, IMO, is what they did to the iBook last spring: one model, 1 clock speed, same I/O, etc. and simply differentiate the line by optical drive.

That made it SO easy for non-Apple geeks to figure out exactly which one they wanted: "Do I want a DVD or a CD burner? OR, do I want both?".
<hr></blockquote>

Yup. that's what made it sooooo easy for me to buy my iBook. I hope Apple does let this carry over to the iMac. The big challenge however, will be the low cost, low end model.

I can't wait to see what they come up with. I believe it will be a knock out. If it is, I will be ordering while he is still giving the keynote!
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post #47 of 79
Joe Average according to the members of this board: "Goddam those Cubes are sexy mother****ers but it has one (speakers in screen)/three (speakers seperate) more wires than the old iMac and I simple can´t figure out how to connect them: Do the USB speakers go into telephone plug and the electric cable into the VCR or was it the other way. I´ll trade sexy for one/three cables less"

If this is true we should rediscover the "Are all americans stupid"-thread.

And about the first iMac commercial: It isn´t so much about one computer with all in it, but more about many different boxes (the Cube as iMac should come with a bundled 15 inch) and registrations codes, difficult OS aso.
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post #48 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>If this is true we should rediscover the "Are all americans stupid"-thread.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think the big problem with the average american is choice. They (we?) have too many choices, give them 1 iMac speed and they just have to choose the drive and ram/hd. Then their choice will be a lot easyer regardless of whether or not it is all-in-one, or a cube.

You are right, the fact that there are 1 or 2 or 5 more cables is moot. The problem is on any other PC you would probably have to configure the things you are plugging in, on a mac it is all done for you...

The only problem with more cables is cable clutter, which Steve hates. So I dono if a 2 piece iMac will happen.
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post #49 of 79
Joe Average according to Anders:

"I understand computers, and cables, and plugs, and stuff."

That's where you're wrong, my friend.

- Pook
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post #50 of 79
Great thread and very constructive, Pscates! I have to concur with your line of thinking: There will be a two-piece iMac. It may not make it to this MWSF, but we will see one. I'll take the major issues in this thread point by point:

I. Concerning separate CPUs

It is true that the iMac was very successful due in part to the all-in-one nature of the machine. The case design is still pretty unique, and it is very effective for many buyers. There is no question that any successor to the iMac would need to have an easy setup path.

At the same time, however, while a number of first time users still like the current iMac, it has obviously dropped off in the sales department. The design of the current iMac was a draw because of its ease of use but also due to its novelty. It was a neat looking machine that caught everyone's attention, and it served its purpose. But a larger percentage of the customer base isn't looking for the iMac type of machine anymore; it's no longer sought after for a couple of reasons.

I'm very close to the consumer side of the Apple equation, and the customers are expressing these concerns (in descending order of importance): 1) No choice in monitor size (the iMac screen is too small for most.); 2) Lack of G4 processor; 3) Lack of bang for buck (psychological effect of not having a bulky tower to look at). Listen, I realize that the AIO nature of the iMac is a great feature for some, just not for enough people. A bunch of the computer shoppers out there are not as ignorant as one may believe; they often state point blank that the iMac's screen is too small and that there's no G4. People want a low cost G4 with a choice of monitors.

II. The iMac Cubed?

So now that we've established the fact that there is strong market demand (relative to Apple sales) for a two-piece iMac containing a G4 and monitor choice, let's look at the feasibility of that computer being the reborn Cube. I definitely like this idea. As a casing concept, the Cube was definitely popular. We all liked the look of the Cube (well, most of us, anyway). Price dictates market realities, though, and the Cube was simply positioned/priced improperly. We all said it the day it came out (you can even look back at the boards if there are archives): The system was just over priced.

People were very impressed with the cube and continued to look upon its design favorably even after it was discontinued. I know many admired one of the last display systems I saw until it was finally purchased. Additionally, I heard from sales managers that people came to retailers days after the discontinuation to ask about buying the Cube. There was demand for the system, and I think there would be great demand today if the system were reintroduced properly.

III. Counter Arguments

With all of this said, however, there are some very good points of contention against the re-introduction of the Cube. The number one issue is that it failed the first time around. I can see why Apple would be hesitant to reintroduce a machine that caused such a headache (poor sales, first major blunder of the Second Reign of Jobs, first quarterly loss of the Second Reign). On the other hand, Think Different shouldn't be an idle advertising slogan. I've illustrated why there's a need for the machine, and I don't think the fact that the first Cube flopped would deter Apple from going ahead with a new one if the company believed the risk would be outweighed by potential benefits. I believe it would be.

The next major problem is the additional complexities of more cording. ADC solves much of the worry here, except for that darn brick power supply. It sticks out like a sore thumb and just goes against any hopes for iMac like simplicity. When I talk to people about the iMac, I always plug its out-of-box simplicity, so it would be nice if the new iMac Cubed could consolidate that power supply in some way. Still, if Apple can't do so, customers will still find a way to set their new iMacs up. After all, as a number of others stated, many, many customers are hooking up those screwed over PCs they buy.

Putting the ports in such an odd place was a bad decision on the part of the original Cube designers. I suppose they didn't want to sacrifice the aesthetic appeal even a tiny bit, a definite case of form over function. They should move the ports to the lower back of the machine, if at all possible, although I don't know if they can alter the board that way without a lot more engineering expense. The only other beef people had with the hardware itself was the lack of PCI expansion. This wouldn't be an issue at all if Apple called the new machine an iMac, since iMacs don't have PCI slots by design. But it would make a difference to those power users who truly want that ability - they would be better served with the microtower people like to talk about on this board. It shouldn't matter to most customers, though. (Perhaps they should make the cube a bit bigger - instead of 8 inches, 8.5 or 9 - in order to accommodate additional expansion options).

IV. Configurations and Final Thoughts

I would love to see the dream of the iMac Cubed come to pass. Apple would most likely preserve at least one configuration of the iMac in the short term as a contingency measure. If the iMac Cubed sells well, then Apple's bet will have paid off many times over. If not, they can easily revert to the iMac proper. It's useless for me to debate the true specifications of these hypothetical machines, so I won't even try. But the iMac Cubed(s) should have either highly clocked G3s, preferably G4s; the top configuration should have the super drive; they should have 32MB cards; they should have 256MB of RAM minimum.

We need a two-piece, low cost Mac, Apple. That's what customers are asking for. You don't need to necessarily call it an iMac, but this is what the market demands. The iMac Cubed would be really fit the bill. Everyone's buying Nintendo Game Cubes, so I doubt there's ill will inherent to the cube concept. In any case, I've ruminated quite enough for one early morning. It's up to Apple to do everything else.

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: Big Mac ]</p>
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post #51 of 79
I bet that the new iMac will NOT be essentially a Cube, but it WILL use all of the technology of the Cube -- namely packing everything into a very small form factor. This is assuming that the iMac will have an LCD monitor, of course, because sans CRT this computer should be small and light. Apple is not going to waste all of the R&D that went into the Cube, they're just going to use it in a different way. So yes, I'm placing my bet on the all-in-one form design.

Then again, what do I know
post #52 of 79
Anders [quote] If this is true we should rediscover the "Are all americans stupid"-thread. <hr></blockquote>

Well, they're not as smart as you danskjävlar! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #53 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by PookJP:
<strong>Joe Average according to Anders:

"I understand computers, and cables, and plugs, and stuff."

That's where you're wrong, my friend.

- Pook</strong><hr></blockquote>

Joe Average according to me: "I can´t built my own PC but I know how to connect my VCR and TV and this new Cube iMac is much simpler than that".

Instruction sheet to the Cube iMac: Connect the electricity cable from the computer to the electricity plug in the wall, Connect it to the internet port (modem or ethernet) to the phone plug/cable modem, Connect the ADC from the screen to the Cube, connect the keyboard to the screen and connect the mouse to the keyboard. The user have to do one more thing. If he can´t do that or feels that it is just remotely difficult he can´t think abstract enough to operate a mouse.

Why is it that people here always think that anyone else is more stupid than themselves? JA don´t have to understand computers, cables, plugs and stuff. He just have to take the blue cable with the wide plug and put it in the screen and the computer.
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post #54 of 79
Return of the Cube
First some comments on the original Cube. I bought my Cube after MWSF last year, choosing it over the TiBook. I put the difference into APPL stock (100 shares @ $18,50), when the stock value hits the asking price for a fully loaded TiBook I will convert the stock to a new TiBook.

My purchase of the Cube early this year was my return to the platform, (compelled by OSX), and with my first Apple in 15 years. My experience as a Wintel "Switcher" and Cube owner has been "nothing but net". OS 9 crashed on me a lot, but since OSX 10.0, that problem went away. One "kernel panic" in nearly nine months of use seems like smooth sailing after OS 9 and Windows. My end user experience has been most excellent, Case cracks? If I shine my desk lamp on the Cube in a certain way I can see a minute mold line. Poor Port placement? Not for me, my desk has a "knock-out" hole for cords that the Cube sits over and all the cords go directly down the hole in a neat bundle. Un-expandable? Well I put a Gigabyte of RAM and a WD Caviar 100 GB in it without and trouble. I have a Zip 250, a Sony CD burner, and DVcam firewired to it, and even a USB floppy drive. I even plan to mod it to dual 500's down the road. For me it's been very expandable.

Bringing back the Cube with the right specs and at the right price would show the stuff Apple is made of. After all, the Company itself is being re-born from it's failures of the '90's. The Cube is that "Digital Hub" that Apple needs to resurrect from the ashes of it's initial pricing policy. Give it a GHz Apollo, with integrated video (like the new iMac) to free the slot for optional cards (ie Sound Blaster or better yet, ATI "All in Wonder" TV card). Give it a big bad HD (like mine) and offer monitor bundles, ie "Crystal Clear Savings". This Phoenix would fly!

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: Aphelion ]</p>
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post #55 of 79
I don't think Apple will do a two part iMac. I vote with the Think Simple crowd - that's the whole essence of the iMac. Even separate speakers are out in my opinion - too many bits to lose or break . However, imagine a detachable screen which locks into the base unit without cables. That would keep it neat and robust; an optional cable could be provided for two part use.

My ideal two part Mac would feature a detachable wireless tablet. But this would be too expensive for an iMac (and current airport speeds would not give a good user experience anyway).
post #56 of 79
While the simplicity of set up was appealing to me when I purchased my iMac 400 DVSE, it was the small footprint and cleanliness of it that won me over.

Our iMac is located in our kitchen as space in our house does not allow for an office. It had to look good and be compact in its use of space. I am willing to bet that this is not an uncommon need for others as well.

I waited to buy my iMac when I first heard of firewire. When it finally came out with it, I bought it during the keynote.

We have needed a second computer desperately in our house for quite some time. I have not purchased another iMac because I keep waiting for a G4 which everyone claims was made more for OS X than the G3. (OS X rules.) I have also been waiting for the LCD, an even more compact format.

I believe I am not the only one who has been holding off, almost ready to burst to buy another iMac. Even Apple has been stalling forever with the color changes and the upgrades to speed and hard drive space. LCD prices had to come down.

Bring on the new, smaller iMac in a 2 piece model. (iMac and keyboard). Does this mean a sprawling system like the cube was too complex for me to setup because it has a billion cords and connections?

Think what you want Anders, but I think you will like the new iMac as well even if it is AIO.
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post #57 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by PookJP:
<strong>You see the cube and see simplicity. Joe Average sees things to plug together, just like that dag-nabbit VCR he can't get to work. Remember the first iMac commercial ever (link, anyone?). First it showed a PC with wires upon wires upon wires. Then it showed an iMac, with a single power plug. Apple has sold 5 million (right?) iMacs under their current strategy. Why, oh why, would they abandon this?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because although Apple sold a great number of iMacs, the product had absolutely no effect on market share. If 90% of consumers are happy to put up with a tangle of wires and spending days on hold to tech support when they buy a Windows PC, then it's hardly a crime for Apple to abandon the "simplicity" of the iMac.

Consumers want features and value. If the design and simplicity mattered that much, Apple would hold a much larger share of the market.

What Apple can do is try to offer features (I'm doubtful about value), and use every weapon in its arsenal to make the set up process simple.

I think poor pscates original point has been hijacked by discussion of a "cube" design, which has then become a discussion about a Cube reprisal.

Forgetting about that, a simple little box which holds all the bits which sit under the current iMac's monitor seems very sensible to me. It doesn't have to be a cube. Add color-coded cables and the excellent set up cards provided with the current iMacs, and I don't see that the process is going to be much tougher for consumers.

A separate display would also open up future potential for further purchases - after a few months of use, customers may choose to return to the Apple Store and get a larger display, something iMac users have never been able to do, and something that for most consumers is unlikely to buy a new computer just for that reason.

And besides, if the rumored codenames "Kiva" and "Revolution" are anything like right, it sounds like this thing may be spherical rather than cuboid.

I'm not going to make any guesses about whether it'll be two-piece or all-in-one. All I know is that despite the collection of Apple hardware currently available to me, I'm going to want one really badly.
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post #58 of 79
I think we'll see a bigger push towards the iPod for sure. Just think, slap 2 USB, one FireWire and monitor port and you've got a pocket HardDrive... OK, it's not really that simple, but that thing does have the potential!
post #59 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by kcmac:
<strong>The cube was not two pieces, it was at least 6. (Monitor, cube, powerbrick, 2 speakers, keyboard.)

The imac is very simple and portable. I think they will keep it that way. Especially if it is part of or is the hub.
And yes, it will be a 2 piece unit. Imac + Keyboard.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: kcmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're right. Only the Tandy Radio Shack (TRS) I think COLOR computer, was truly one piece. Keyboard was rigidly attached to the monitor/CPU case, and only a POWER CORD, no brick. No MOUSE, either. Just big ol' 8" floppies!


<a href="http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/trs80iii/front.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/trs80iii/front.jpg</a>

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: JRC ]

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: JRC ]</p>
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post #60 of 79
I'd like to see a unit like the PS2- VCR shaped with a stand to have it vertical if you like.

No monitor bundling so it can be bought cheap and used in rack mounted servers as well as fitting nicely into home theater system.

ADC, firewire, USB, airport, and all the necessary i/o for home theater integration. Alternatively the latter could be supplied by a firewire peripheral.

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post #61 of 79
hmm, i'm thinking one piece unit.

lcd, rounded on the bottom half, square on the top, with all the ports in back, and no fan.

and a G4. just a wild guess though.
post #62 of 79
Nah, it was even more than 6 pieces.

Cube
power supply
keyboard
mouse
monitor
speaker
speaker
speaker amp

and if you want a mic, you need yet another piece...The current iMac has a built-in mic.

In a way, despite being volume efficient, the cube design isn't good for computers. I think the pizza box is a much more logical design.
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post #63 of 79
[quote] Why is it that people here always think that anyone else is more stupid than themselves? JA don´t have to understand computers, cables, plugs and stuff. He just have to take the blue cable with the wide plug and put it in the screen and the computer. <hr></blockquote>

Experience. One would think a USB hub would be relatively simple, but to my friend Ben, it's completely baffling. He just bought an iPod for his iBook 366 (no FW) because he thought it would work with his USB hub. Ben is a senior Stanford University.

One would think plugging a mouse into a USB enabled keyboard would be pretty obvious. My friend Matt had his mouse plugged into the side of his iMac and kept complaining about how short his mouse cable was. Matt is a senior at Colgate University.

I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.

These are not stupid people, they just don't "get" computers. What seems as simple as turning on a TV to us seems like programming OS X to them. They are baffled because they just don't get it. "Plug this into ADC, and this into your Cube, and this into the wall, and this into your phone jack, and these speakers into there, and so on and so on" is not so simple. It just isn't.

That being said,

- Pook
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post #64 of 79
I still think that for the low end, an all-in-one computer is best. More simple, easier to set up, and looks cool (cute). iMac buyers don't know sh!t about computers, and they aren't interested in learning.

The new LCD iMac will be an all in one design. Here's what I'd LIKE to see:

A base unit that holds all the internals of the iMac...HD, MOBO, optical drive, ports. This base unit has an ADC connector set in a special swivel slot for holding a display that slides in and attaches semi-permanently. (not a TRUE all in one, but once snapped together it never need be separated).

Apple could offer 2 or 3 different displays for this base unit, and the buyer selects an LCD display to go with their base unit. They can even upgrade to a larger display in the future. Apple could offer two or three different sized LCD displays, depending on their popularity.

Since these iMac displays would be distinct from the other Apple LCD displays, Apple could make them from lower quality TFT screens, so that the price of the iMac remains low.

Although this would be a great way to address the problem of display size with the iMac, I don't really think this will happen.

Another alternative (the most likely one) is to keep the LCD iMac one piece unit, with a 15" display. Keep the price LOW, with the high end model topping out at 1200, and a special superdrive model at 1500-1600. Of course the iMac will be a G4.

Then, fill the space between the iMac and powermacs in Apple's lineup with the CUBE. This time, bring back the cube but make it larger, so it holds a standard sized video card in it's AGP port, so that it's easier to cool and can run with a larger CPU, and so that it has room for TWO HDs instead of one. Put regularly used ports (USB, Firewire, audio I/O) on the FRONT of the cube for easy access. A taller cube isn't a big deal, it still takes up the same amount of desk space, and actually it might even be more attractive to buyers because anything narrow and tall has a certain amount of phallic appeal. Also, add a fan so it stays cool and doesn't have overheating problems like the first cube purportedly did.

Price the cube at true headless iMac prices, meaning, the price of an iMac sans display. Use the same CPU in all cubes, so they all have identical MOBOS (cheaper to produce).

Thus: 1 GHz G4 (apollo) Cube:

$999:
30 GB HD
128 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW

$1199
60 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW

$1499
80 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 3
CDRW/DVD-ROM combo drive

Add $500 for a display, and you've got a price spread of:
1499
1699
1999

And this price spread is PERFECT for a Mac system with a $500 monitor. The buyer can opt to buy a non-Apple display, and get themselves either a larger CRT display, OR, they can go for the Apple LCD display. Apple could bundle a $500 LCD display that's a better value than the cube buyer could find elsewhere.

The first question is, would this cannibalize iMac sales. I don't think so. iMac buyers are interested in an easy to set up and use computer and do not want to be bothered with expanding or upgrading their computers. They do not understand computers, and they have no desire to learn anything beyond that which is necessary to allow them to get stuff DONE with their computer. The computer is a tool to them, a tool that is difficult to use, confusing to operate--basically a necessary evil. iMac buyers don't care about display size because they are not hardcore gamers, graphic designers....in essence, they are not hardcore computer users. Finally, the price of a Cube + display begins at the price of a high end iMac with superdrive. Clearly, there is a premium for the Cube's style, and the ability to choose a larger display, and the video card that drives it.

The cube would be targeted at computer enthusiasts who demand more from a computer, whether it be for graphic design, gaming, or surfing the web. They want a tower but don't have the cash. They want a Mac, but the iMac's small display is a turn-off. If they are gamers, then the video card must be upgradeable. These users might add an extra HD at some point, but PCI slots are not essential, particularly with OS X's software based RAID solution. This market segment is composed of people who wouldn't buy an iMac anyways, or if they did it would be under protest. Currently, they buy older powermacs, either used or new but previous models. So the cube as I described it would not significantly cannabilize iMac sales, and it would be bought in lieu of used powermacs. Apple would really make good money off such a product.

Do I think this will ever be done by Apple? No. But it's nice to dream!

I'm the sort of person Apple would make money off of with this sort of cube. I bought my Powermac new, but as a previous model, over the internet. Apple could have made more money off me if I had bought a "new" Mac from their current lineup, but they offered nothing for me.

My tower is great, but a cube as I described, with room for a full sized video card, two HDs, this would be perfect for me. I have one PCI card, but I don't really need it (a Soundblaster, eck!).

I fear what Apple learned from the cube, is this: They though, "Mac users are clamoring for a headless iMac, let's give 'em one!".

We get the cube, it doesn't sell.

"Oh, so they don't want a headless iMac! They want iMacs with different color schemes! That's it!"

It seems that in every cube debate, what gets lost in the discussion is that if I say I want a headless iMac, I also want a headless iMac price! That means, you take away the display, you take away the COST of the display, and price the damn thing accordingly! Apple got greedy but I'm not sure they understand that this is the source of the cube's abysmal failure.
post #65 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by PookJP:
<strong>
I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Done the same thing myself (before ADSL). Only mental laziness prevented me from figuring out what the problem was

I still have to say that a Cubed iMac would make one more cable nessesary (if they build in speakers into the LCD and put the mini jack in the cube itself. The power cord could have the power adaptor halfways on it.

But okay I give in. You can have your "see mom no wires" iMac to yourselves and let Europe and Japan have the "one cable more" cubed iMac (and lets not start a ameri-euro flamewar. Its so 2001´sh)
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post #66 of 79
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>iMac buyers don't know sh!t about computers, and they aren't interested in learning.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wait a minute, now...

Not every graphics geek is a G4 power hound...and not every iMac user is clueless newbie.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Plenty of guys like me occupying that middle space of "too advanced for beginner, too intermediate for advanced" (or something like that) who's needs are more than met by iMacs.

And I know PLENTY, Sparky.



[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #67 of 79
If Apple came out with something similar to Sony's PenTablet series, where you can draw on the screen, I'd sell every computer peripheral I have and throw in my dog to get one. From what I'd heard rumored about the new iMac the new form factor will be a nice change, but will offer nothing more than just Apple's usual emphasis on form over substance. Too bad because I'm seriously itching to get at one of those Sony units.
post #68 of 79
I liked the Cube but I question whether Apple needs 3 desktop products.

I like the 4 product grid myself.

2 configurations of each portable and 3 configurations of Desktop.

Simple and effective.
post #69 of 79
[quote]iMac buyers don't know sh!t about computers, and they aren't interested in learning. <hr></blockquote>

Beer must be wearing off! Now that's the old Junkyard Dawg we know and love...

This stupid iMac owner can't wait for the new iMacs. And of course since I own an iBook and not a Powerbook, that makes me doubly stupid.

:confused: <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
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post #70 of 79
The idea of a two-piece iMac successor jives with an odd rumour I heard many months ago (before MWNY).

A poster on another board that I have grown to trust has a friend inside the Sacramento plant. His info is usually kinda mundane ("the assembly line is running XXXX right now"). He mentioned black plastic-wrapped palettes with coding that seemed to indicate a main unit, and two possible second accessory units (ie: A or B). These don't seem to jive with anything I've seen since.

Isn't it possible that Apple could have an iMac with two different snap-in screens? Picture the guts of the computer (drive, mobo, powersupply, built in peripherals) as the heavy ballast or base, with some sort of clever way of snapping-in either one of two different size pivoting displays. We're just not used to thinking in this way...but this seems like a design challenge that Ive and Co. could surmount.

This would simultaneously answer to Apple's loudest iMac complaint ("the frickin' screen is too small, goddamnit!") without wiping out the lower cost for the base unit and smaller (but acceptable, as we've all rationalized) screen/resolution.

It also feeds into my lego-like integration dream, where all of Apple's appliances snap together to provide capabilities greater than the sum of the parts...
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post #71 of 79
Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?

For all of the reasons npoted above, the iMac redux will not be a G4 Cube redux.
post #72 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by gordy:
<strong>Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?

For all of the reasons npoted above, the iMac redux will not be a G4 Cube redux.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Here, here.

Even if it was incredible looking, any link to the Cube would be a feeding frenzy for bonehead press and critics and would sink it, even if unfairly. (I'd love to proven wrong...)
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post #73 of 79
The thing is that the iMac is an icon -- an instantly recognizable shape that carries with it ideas like "ease of use" and "simplicity". I have no doubt that a two piece "iMac" wouldn't actually be much different from an all-in-one in terms of ease of setup and so forth, but Apple really needs to make something that has a strong presence and that is a worthy successor to the previous line of iMacs. They have basically gone unchanged (colors and minor design tweaks notwithstanding) for like 3 years. The iMac is Apple's bread and butter -- if it hadn't come out Apple might not be around today.

For this reason, I would be surprised if they didn't make the new iMac an all in one. I am expecting something reminiscent of the new ibook and the iPod.
post #74 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by gordy:
<strong>Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I suspect that privilege belongs to the Lisa.

Michael
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post #75 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by mmicist:
<strong>

I suspect that privilege belongs to the Lisa.

Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is gordy hinting that Apple will replace the imac with Lisas :eek: Digging all those computers out of the dump again <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> And people thought and Cubed imac was a bad idea
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post #76 of 79
Yes, but these will be G5-based Lisas. Price: $9,000. Sign me up!
post #77 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Yes, but these will be G5-based Lisas. Price: $9,000. Sign me up!</strong><hr></blockquote>

:eek: For this :confused:
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post #78 of 79
okay,

you say keep it simple: an all in one computer.

the only cords are the power, phone or ethernet, and mouse/keyboard.

BUT in this day and age, why the hell do we have cords at all???

I predict that apple will be using all new wireless technology to connect the keyboard & mouse on both the iMac and the PowerMac. here's the kicker though: The two piece iMac will also connect to it's MONITOR in this way.

Here's the idea:

BOX
You have a cube-type box, set up on a desk, that contains all your basic ports, and the various controllers along with the main processor (667Mhz G4) and up to 1 GB of Ram. A stand, similar in design to a palm stand but bigger, is supplied to dock & recharge the monitor/pad.

MONITOR
A 14" LCD, with pen tablet capabilities. The enclosure will be just big enough to hold the video system (16MB Radeon Mobility??), another, weaker processor to run a web browser & Mail client while away from the base, and the built-in wireless driver. It will work up to 30-40 feet from the base, thus allowing you to surf the web on your couch without another computer. The big thing about this is that R&D on this puppy would not be tied up in the iMac, because the wireless capability in the PowerMac would allow you to sell it separately w/a FireWire dock, perhaps.

I also anticipate seeing a box for your TV that allows you to wirelessly play your iTunes through your stereo. It could be controlled from the monitor, and would fully integrate with either system. This would be sold separately, of course.

The way Apple has been hyping this announcement, I really feel they have something new up their sleeve.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: dwldzm9 ]</p>
post #79 of 79
Posted by Pook:

[quote] You see the cube and see simplicity. Joe Average sees things to plug together, just like that dag-nabbit VCR he can't get to work. Remember the first iMac commercial ever (link, anyone?). First it showed a PC with wires upon wires upon wires. Then it showed an iMac, with a single power plug. Apple has sold 5 million (right?) iMacs under their current strategy. Why, oh why, would they abandon this?

The average consumer becomes exponentially more confused with each additional choice. Keep it simple, make it competitive, and the iMacs will sell.

So, pscates, I am officially on record: new iMac will be a one-piece unit. If you are right, I'll change my name to "pscates proved Pook wrong." <hr></blockquote>

No name change for me.

New iMac is awesome.

- Pook
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