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The Passion of the Christ - Page 7

post #241 of 513
You can say that about anything.

We're all informed by ideology.
post #242 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
Saw it tonight. Wow. No words can suffice.

that bad hunh?!?

ok . . I'm convinced . . . I'll avoid it like the plague







"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #243 of 513
aside from all the debate, it pisses me off that people dont like it ONLY because of the gore and violence. what did they expect??? its the bible!
post #244 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
what did they expect??? its the bible!

Some sex?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.htm
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post #245 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Some sex?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.htm

plenty of that:

adult christianity
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #246 of 513
God doesn't like it when you rattle your Goobers® bag...

Flashing light at Drudge:

KAKE TV in Wichita, Kansas set report to a woman, in her 50s, suffered a heart attack during a morning screening of Mel Gibson's controversial film PASSION OF THE CHRIST. "She later died at the hospital," a station source tells the DRUDGE REPORT. The report is scheduled to be lead story on the station's 5 PM news. "She went into seizure during one of the film's most dramatic moments," a station source explains. The woman attended a 9:30am screening at Warren East Theaters in Wichita... Developing...

...and turn off your damn cell phone. I can't hear the Aramaic...

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/
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post #247 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
There's not just one strain of Christianity Bunge - maybe you've been focussing on the wrong sort....

Contrary to popular belief, there are more than a few Christians out there who don't think that women should be slaves to men, gays/lesbians are going to Hell, or that the earth is 10,000 years old.

David Walker's Liberal Christian Homepage

The United Church of Canada -- Support for Same-Sex Marriages

Don't be fooled by idiotic impostors like Pat Buchanan, Jerry Falwell et al. just because someone calls himself/herself as a "Christian" doesn't mean that they are.
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post #248 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by rampancy
Don't be fooled by idiotic impostors like Pat Buchanan, Jerry Falwell et al. just because someone calls himself/herself as a "Christian" doesn't mean that they are.

It's one of the real oddities of religion and current politics, that so many religious people are so conservative. They seem to not go together. Yeah, I know there are liberal Christians too. Maybe the Religious Right just gets all the attention.
post #249 of 513
Well, Christianity- it's anti-sex, largely anti-women.....i mean we worship a guy FOR CHRI....
post #250 of 513
I heard a few radio show callers review this flick today. They kept saying it'd be a "wake-up call for non-believers" like me. Excuse me while I sleep in...
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post #251 of 513
a wake-up call? for what?

I was raised catholic... I hit the snooze button years ago.
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post #252 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
aside from all the debate, it pisses me off that people dont like it ONLY because of the gore and violence. what did they expect??? its the bible!

Why is this movie called "overly violent" but matrix 3 (the peice of shit it was, hay kiono, give me my $8.50 back)was called things like "A thrill a second" and an exersise in "superb story telling" by the same critics?
some say that this is a historical documentory, and as such it is ''overly violent, if this is the case, where was the rage against Band of Brothers (HBO) and Saving private ryan?

and one more thing, looking at this historicly, NOT religously, it is a story of a crusifiction, this is not a damnd tea party!! when one is hanged on a cross, there is cretainly violence involved
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #253 of 513
45 minutes of torture?

Might as well watch Friday the 13th or Halloween.
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post #254 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Well, Christianity- it's anti-sex, largely anti-women.....i mean we worship a guy FOR CHRI....

8)

A note about the violence: if everyone is raising such a stink about how The Passion is so violent, why wasn't there a massive uproar over Kill Bill, where there were apparently fountains of blood spewing out of people's bodies? (I haven't seen it myself but I do intend to soon.)

I saw a photo of Christ on the cross from the movie on the front page of the National Post and He's totally covered in blood. Wow. It makes me really think about the guys back in the Philippines who actually get their hands and feet nailed when they do their reenactments of the Crucifixion.
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post #255 of 513
Dont give away the ending.
People that are passionate about what they do, truly believe in their good cause, have a clear vision and understanding of what they want, those people are heroes.
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post #256 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
Dont give away the ending.

Oh thats OK. I already read the book.
post #257 of 513
Honestly.

The Gosples/NT have/has been searched up, down, backwards and forwards for error, contradictions, etc. for nearly 2000 years. There are no flaws. The closest you will come is with the book of James and the direction it takes on works righteousness. Had there been distinguishable errors in the text, this conversation wouldn't be necessary.

Get over it.

The pagan (and I use that term VERY loosely) media buried this movie. Only Drudge gave it the coverage it deserved. Once it was apparent that the buried coverage couldn't damage the movie's marketing (remember NOT ONE of the major distributors would touch this film) the Anti-semetic/violence spin was brought out to damage the movie further. But to no avail---in an industry dominated by the sexually confused and Christ-hating bigots who yearly bring us such cinematic jems as American Pie and Jason vs. Freddy, who expose grade schoolers to Janet Jackson's, hip tit at the stupor bowl---and are loath to shy away from necrophelia, insest and cannabalism as major themes for big-budget movies....it's just a teensy-weensy bit assine to bitch when a movie is made depicting the life of Christ---and how offensive it is to sell mugs bearing the likness of the movie's branding.

Contemplate this deeply the next time you're at a Marylin Manson concert.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #258 of 513
Marilyn Manson is the anti-christ!!! hehe

silly.

Yeah Drudge is a real Saint.
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post #259 of 513
Next thing you know... dmz is gonna tell us not to go to harry potter movies and that Reggae is devil music.


http://www.threatalertjesus.com/
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post #260 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Honestly.

The Gosples/NT have/has been searched up, down, backwards and forwards for error, contradictions, etc. for nearly 2000 years. There are no flaws.

Check out some recent thread in AO. Plenty of them show evidence of flaws. You should read about them sometime.
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post #261 of 513
SPOILERS AHEAD

I saw the film tonight, at a 10:05 pm showing here in Dallas. The first 45 minutes are very good, though they are laced with a great deal of anti-Semitism (not enough that the priests are all evil, they're also shown haggling over the 30 shekels, beating up Jesus before delivering him to Pilate, demanding that Jesus be executed for no reason, displayed as hordes of angry, hook-nosed monsters). Pilate is displayed as damn near blameless, which is absurd, and totally contradicts what we know of him from history and the precepts of logic, which recognize that only a Roman governor could order a crucifixion, and he's not going to do it because the locals don't like some guy's theology.

The film goes astray when it gets its most violent. There is nothing in the text of the Gospels to support the slashing of Jesus's flesh into ribbons during the scourging, his falling every four feet (it seems) during the carrying of the cross, or the notion that he carried his entire cross instead of just a crossbeam, as was Roman practice. The pools of blood sopped up by Mary are not Biblical, but based on the deranged ravings of a Catholic saint who was a big fan of the Opus Dei-style practice of corporal mortification. There is no way someone could have been ripped to shreds like Jesus was in this film, bled like he did, and still live long enough to reach the end of the day.

Jesus' suffering was torturous, but not to this extreme. This was practically a pornographic level of violence. But Gibson fails to add context to Jesus, he fails to in any real way bring the audience to a clearer or better understanding of Jesus, or his nature. All we know is that he went through a lot of pain, and we get a few sound-byte style "best of" quotes from his teachings to this disciples. We don't get to search for his divinity with him, we don't feel his isolation from his supporters and his God. This is not <em>Last Temptation</em>. This is not half the film, half the testament to Jesus that <em>Last Temptation</em> is.

The movie's best moments are the scenes with Mary _we really feel her pain, her agony, more than we feel Jesus', because it is far more real. It's not taken to the absurd extreme that the scourging in particular is.

The film also does well with the crucifixion itself, the only point where the violence seems to be real and where the intercut flashbacks really lend context and depth. We get the connection between the crucifixion and the Eucharist in a way that the other flashbacks just don't connect.

The Satan character was interesting, but vanished in the third act, when she should have been most present and tempting, but perhaps Gibson was afraid of the potential comparison's to <em>The Last Temptation of Christ</em>. And he should be.

Gibson's film is no doubt precisely the film he wanted to make. But it's shallow where it should be deep, gorey where it should contemplative and in the end little more than the sum of its scenes. Folks looking to know and feel the humanity, and the conflicted divinity, of Jesus would do better renting the Criterion DVD of<em> Last Temptation of Christ.</em>
post #262 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
[B]The Gosples/NT have/has been searched up, down, backwards and forwards for error, contradictions, etc. for nearly 2000 years.

And countless contradictions have been found. Good Lord, the very chronology of John completely clashes with that of the Synoptics. None of the Easter Morning accounts line up next to each other. They can't all be mutually true, claiming at different times different people being the first to learn that the tomb was empty, and in different ways.

The Bible is not inerrant. It may be divinely inspired, but it was human-scribed, and any intellectual Christian faith will have to grapple with this. You can't wish the human origin of the texts away, or package up the contradictions into a pretty black box and ignore them not if you want your religious faith to have any real depth.

Quote:
The pagan (and I use that term VERY loosely) media buried this movie.

You live in a fantasy world. This movie has been on the front pages of major newspapers for months and was a lead story in every major news and entertainment magazine this week. It's everywhere.

Quote:
Contemplate this deeply the next time you're at a Marylin Manson concert.

I don't think Marilyn Manson has much of an audience anymore. You might want to join us in the 21st Century.

Kirk
post #263 of 513
I should dress up as Jesus or Barabbas and go to one of the Friday night shows...LotR or Star Wars fan style, mouthing all the words at the garden of Gethsemane or whatever.
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post #264 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
I should dress up as Jesus or Barabbas and go to one of the Friday night shows...LotR or Star Wars fan style, mouthing all the words at the garden of Gethsemane or whatever.

Do you know them in Aramaic?

Kirk
post #265 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
I should dress up as Jesus or Barabbas and go to one of the Friday night shows...LotR or Star Wars fan style, mouthing all the words at the garden of Gethsemane or whatever.

post #266 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
Oh thats OK. I already read the book.

me too, turns out the devil did it ooops, did i ruine it?
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #267 of 513
Thread Starter 
I love the way that dmz vanished altogether when shown incontrovertible contradictions in the infallible Gospel.

post #268 of 513
Our Gay friend Kirkland dealing out a biblical smackdown! I love it.

Go Kirk.. Go Kirk... Go Kirk.
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post #269 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
The pagan (and I use that term VERY loosely) media buried this movie. Only Drudge gave it the coverage it deserved. Once it was apparent that the buried coverage couldn't damage the movie's marketing (remember NOT ONE of the major distributors would touch this film) the Anti-semetic/violence spin was brought out to damage the movie further. But to no avail---.

Wow .. .

anyway, you're wrong: the marketting campaign WAS the claim that "jewish groups" were saying that the film was Anti-Semitic . . this came out BEFORE the movie was even close to release, and came out because Milf Gobson wanted it too . . .
He thrived off of the uproar caused by the bad press that he caused!
It is a well known tactic: "any press is good press"

Especially when it works because it drives a wedge between two communities . .

and that, sadly, is the real Anti-Semiticness of this movie: the manner in which fear of Anti-Semitism and/or its actual undercurrent were exploited by Milf Gobson for the purposes of getting exposure . . . shows that he is a mean spirited PR whore

and as far as his mean spiritedness: anyone who makes a 45minute flagellation scene and then says that that is the religion of love must have a mean spirit
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #270 of 513
Puhleeze.


Neither side is right or wrong here. Just a bunch of hot air which is what we always get when dealing with religion.

as for

Anti-Semitism- Personally I have no problem with Jews but where the bleep does the ADL get off telling me who I can like or dislike. If I choose to dislike Jews that is MY choice not some damn movies(I don't buy the crap that movies make you racist in any way...bollocks)

Christianity- Geez after so many re-writing of the Testament..can "anyone" be sure just what the original meanings are? Probably not.

Mel Gibson- If "I" had sunk millions of my money into a film...I'd probably welcome a little negative press. Hell that beats bankruptcy anyday.

I'm going to watch this movie...just as I will watch Schindlers List for the story. I try not to politicize my life too much and frankly don't need others trying to dictate my feelings to me.
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post #271 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
Oh thats OK. I already read the book.

People that are passionate about what they do, truly believe in their good cause, have a clear vision and understanding of what they want, those people are heroes.
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People that are passionate about what they do, truly believe in their good cause, have a clear vision and understanding of what they want, those people are heroes.
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post #272 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
And countless contradictions have been found.


Nonsense. (But then God did ask Cain where his brother was...darn......there goes my theology)

Don't take on subject matter that you cannot handle.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #273 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
The Gosples/NT have/has been searched up, down, backwards and forwards for error, contradictions, etc. for nearly 2000 years. Get over it...The pagan (and I use that term VERY loosely) media buried this movie...in an industry dominated by the sexually confused and Christ-hating bigots...and how offensive it is to sell mugs bearing the likness of the movie's branding.

Some links from ReligiousTolerance.org:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/inerrant.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ine_none.htm

And then of course, there's the issue of translations. The Bible has been translated from Classical Greek, to Ecclesiastic Latin to English, and in the act of translation, there have been many, many errors. Yes, we now have translations from the original Greek texts, but even still there's the issue of the translation itself. As I learned myself when I took Ancient Greek, even the best translations can result in a major shift in the meaning and style of the original source text.

And of course there's the debate about cool little things like Q, and the issue that some of Paul's letters most likely weren't even written by Paul himself, but were added on much later. And also the issue that the tail end of The Gospel of John was also not written by the author of John, but someone else, again, much later.

I highly recommend to everyone the book "Is The Bible True?", a concise and broad look at a lot of recent academic controversies surrounding scripture, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

As a Christian, I believe that the Bible is a wonderful, beautiful document, but at the same time, I'm not blind to the fact that, sadly, like many things, it has been subjected to some of the flaws of human nature.

Re: the "Pagan" media -- as others have so politely pointed out, you're quite mistaken. Again, this is the reason why many Fundamentalist Christians simply infuriate me. The media is, in many ways, flawed, yes -- but the idea that modern society is victimizing and plotting against poor ol' Christianity is complete garbage. Whether or not you believe in separation of Church and State (and I by the way do very much), Christianity is the de facto religion of the World's Most Powerful Nation -- and you're not satisfied with this? Perhaps you are looking forward to a day when the United States follow's Utah's example and becomes a theocracy.

Quote:
Contemplate this deeply the next time you're at a Marylin Manson concert.

After seeing "Bowling for Columbine", I gained a newfound respect for Marylin Manson. He said that he actually would have listened to Harris and Kleibold (the two teenagers at the heart of the Columbine shootings), would have listened to what those two kids had to say...and I think he meant it.

Not one Fundamentalist Christian, in my experience, ever expressed any sympathy, or any desire to *truly* understand what the real problem was, and why Harris and Kleibold did what they did. They didn't mention anything about opening a meaningful dialogue or establishing some sense of mutual understanding. And you know what? I don't think they even bothered to care.

Would you?
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-Former Apple CEO Michael Spindler
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"Do you know this company was on the brink of bankruptcy in '85? The same thing in '88, '90, and '92. It will survive. It always has."
-Former Apple CEO Michael Spindler
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post #274 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Nonsense. (But then God did ask Cain where his brother was...darn...there goes my theology)

Don't take on subject matter that you cannot handle.

If you're going to reply to what Kirkland said, at least try to respond to his comments.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...stencies.shtml

And why do you think that the Bible is something Kirkland can't handle?
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-Former Apple CEO Michael Spindler
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"Do you know this company was on the brink of bankruptcy in '85? The same thing in '88, '90, and '92. It will survive. It always has."
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post #275 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Don't take on subject matter that you cannot handle.

Considering that I have studied this issue for years, and at one point was a Roman Catholic in a pre-vocational program, I doubt there's anything you could throw my way that could fluster me.

Kirk
post #276 of 513
David Denby of the New Yorker and A.O. Scott of the New York Times have the definitive reviews of the movie.

On a different note, I saw Hairspray tonight, and one of the actors slipped in a line about the movie: ("Did you see the new Jesus movie yet? I'll give away the ending: he dies") Afterwards, Harvey Fierstein said my girlfriend should be more aggressive in soliciting an autograph, but that's a different matter
post #277 of 513
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz

Don't take on subject matter that you cannot handle.

Tell you what. You actually address the contradictions in the BIble POSTED IN THIS THREAD and I won't take the piss when you run away from the argument YOU STARTED.

Start with the chronologies of John and the synoptics.
post #278 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Tell you what. You actually address the contradictions in the BIble POSTED IN THIS THREAD and I won't take the piss when you run away from the argument YOU STARTED.

Start with the chronologies of John and the synoptics.

ooh ooh - can I have a go please.....?


Jesus .. the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli (Luke 3:23)

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus (Matt 1:16)


And what about:


And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. (Mark 15:25)

About the sixth hour ... they cried out, "Away with him, away with him, crucify him". (John 19:14,15)


And who can forget the evergreen classic:

Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18 )

(Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field. (Matt 27:5-7)


Which version of Judas's death does Gibson choose btw ? Hopefully not the first if he's going for the graphic depictions....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #279 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ

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post #280 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
Do you know them in Aramaic?

Kirk

I don't know them at all. What's the dress code like there anyway? Is it casual like Olive Garden?
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