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The Passion of the Christ - Page 11

post #401 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by rampancy
To make things fair, I guess the other non-Christian people on these boards should refer to Christians as "Jesus Freaks".


I think that the "Jesus Freak" sentiment, as subtext, is already here on there boards.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #402 of 513
A Lutheran Pastor just clued me in on the satam imagery in _The Passion_

from the email:

> What did you make of the child Satan was holding in the movie? Totally
> escaped me.




The Demon is holding the Old Man, fallen man, the man of sin. This was a
parody of the Virgin and Child.

Indeed, throughout the film there is a sustained parallelism between the
Blessed Virgin and the Demon, who even bears a physical resemblance to the
Virgin. Indeed, they are clothed almost in almost identical garb. They are
constantly being juxtaposed during the Way of the Cross.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #403 of 513
I teared quite a few times during the movie.....
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post #404 of 513
It's been almost two weeks and I have seen ZERO things in the news that I can point to and say that this movie raised someone's Anti-Semetic ire to such a point that they took it out on Jews. Granted, I don't have access to every news source, but I would like someone to point me to a credible story of this nature. This implies to me that the cries of Anti-Semetism were completely overblown, although the future could prove me wrong.

BTW, my favorite story was an editorial that stated that Mel is trying to start a new holocaust. I couldn't believe that it was even printed. I could imagine seing it in the Onion, but not in a credible newspaper. The writer ended his story by saying that Mel must be really disappointed that the movie has started new dialogues between Christians and Jews rather than an ethnic war. What FUD.
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post #405 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by rogue master
It's been almost two weeks and I have seen ZERO things in the news that I can point to and say that this movie raised someone's Anti-Semetic ire.......



This is an important point. But it will probably get less coverage than the signing of the Iraqi preliminary Constitution.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #406 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis
I teared quite a few times during the movie.....

Drama queen!
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post #407 of 513
We're not likely to hear anything at all about hate-acts carried out because people watched this movie. It's just a completely illogical argument, no matter how much one might dislike the movie....

Also, I think dmz's editorial does hit on an interesting point no one really mentioned before. There is a LOAD of horrendous, violent crap shown in our theatres each year, and no one says squat about it.

Add a religious context and suddenly it's "too much" and "irresponsible" and all the rest. One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.

Right now there's only PC finger pointing AFAICT.
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post #408 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
One of these days maybe people will come out and say what they mean and there can actually BE "a new dialog" between Jews and Christians about Jesus and what happened to him and what we all believe.

Right now there's only PC finger pointing AFAICT.

Did this movie make people forget Vatican II already?
post #409 of 513
There's more to it than that; Vatican II is essentially between Jews and Catholics. There are many denominations that never had that type of reckoning in such a formal manner... so the whole issue of whether and how Jews of the time were involved in Jesus' death, has never been taken up where these other Christians are concerned AFAIK.

Sometimes I think it's just a lack of awareness as to what the basic principles of the other group's religion are. We are never taught the implications of our religious beliefs as children (in terms of what people of other faiths believe and where the differences are). We are just taught to memorize things... no different that a grade school history class, and less rigorous in many respects (if that's possible).

In the end, the real point of contention never comes out in situations like this because the issues are glossed over by the media in very superficial ways.
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post #410 of 513
I ran across this piece. Apparently this fellow interviewed PopGobson . . . and he it re-inforces what anbody willing to acknowledge already knows about MilfGobson's piece of sado-masochistic repressed travesty of film . . . that he and his father share essential ideas . . . stupid, hateful ideas
Quote:
Interview with Mel Gibsons dad
teaches strange lessons on life
By Steve Feuerstein

NEW YORK, March 14 (JTA) I learned a lifelong lesson during my recent interview with Mel Gibsons father, Hutton Gibson. The interview took place on the eve of the release of Mel Gibsons new movie, The Passion of the Christ.

I learned that there actually were no concentration camps during the Holocaust, only work camps.

I learned that the Holocaust was a fiction, a fabricated business tool used strategically to siphon hard-earned money from the coffers of innocent governments worldwide.

I learned that there are too many survivors left in the world for there ever to have been a Holocaust.

I learned that the Jews just walked off the plazas of Europe right onto the streets of the Bronx, Brooklyn, Sydney and Los Angeles. In fact, I learned that the Germans were such an efficient people that if they had wanted to murder 6 million people, well then by golly they would have done it!

But this was only the beginning of my education.

I learned from Hutton Gibson that every generation of Jews aspires toward global dominion through one world religion and one world government. I learned that the Rockefellers, Carnegies and Morgans all were international Jewish bankers whose lifelong plot was to control the U.S. economy.

I learned that Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, as ringleader of this economic band of brothers, should be hanged.

I learned that America must be violently overthrown and that all states must secede from the union.

I learned that Japs who died in ferocious battles during World War II simply were fools and human waste to be cleared off the front line like disposable trash each morning.

I learned that the Vatican has been under Jewish and Masonic control since 1965. And I at last learned the answer to a question that has troubled me since birth: The pope, in fact, is not Catholic; he is Jewish.

I learned that when The Passion of the Christ was screened at the Vatican, the pope was considered nothing more than a hostile witness and a dumb ass, for he obviously could do only one thing upon viewing the film: endorse it.

I learned that no one merits salvation in this world but members of the Gibsons fringe Catholic sect.

I learned that the Judeo-Christian principle of love for all mankind is nothing more than politically correct rhetoric articulated best when standing before a nationally televised audience. I learned that there is no room in the neighborhood for minorities and diversity.

I learned that conspiracy theories lie behind every door, that there are only others to blame for ones shortcomings in life, only others to blame for ones failed dreams. I learned that life is too short for you to be held accountable for helping to make it a better place.

I learned that all men are not created equal, and those age-old aspersions of deicide against the Jews are as alive today as they were 2,000 years ago.

I learned that The Passion was in fact made so that everyone would intimately know the line from Matthew 27:25: His blood be upon us and our children, the cornerstone of the historic blood libel against the Jews.

I learned that a childs blind honor to a bigoted and racist parent is paramount, and that no wedge will ever be driven between them.

In short, what I learned from Hutton Gibson and his passion was pure, unadulterated, toxic hatred.

Perhaps most importantly, there really was a valuable message that I learned during Gibsons two-hour tirade: This vicious cycle of generational hate will end only when sons are courageous enough to stand up to the malevolence of their fathers.
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--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #411 of 513
What a prick.
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #412 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
What a prick.

Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.

On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.
'But God really exists' said the old man, and my faith was restored for I knew that Santa Claus would never lie.
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'But God really exists' said the old man, and my faith was restored for I knew that Santa Claus would never lie.
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post #413 of 513
ooh mad max 4...hope it's better than thunderdome.
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post #414 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by rogue master
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson?

I was speaking about Hutton.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #415 of 513
Maccabees? I mean, come on, they didn't even win in the end...
post #416 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
I ran across this piece. Apparently this fellow interviewed PopGobson . . . and he it re-inforces what anbody willing to acknowledge already knows about MilfGobson's piece of sado-masochistic repressed travesty of film . . . that he and his father share essential ideas . . . stupid, hateful ideas


Pfflam, call me crazy, but it sounds like you aren't too pleased with Gibson's movie.


Gibson's father sounds nuts here, but you are too if you think Gibson is going to give the media any purchase on a Father/Son disagreement. I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #417 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I wouldn't want a disagreement between me and my Dad done in public, I doubt Mel does either.

That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #418 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
That's a load of bull. It's not a personal fight people are interested in, it's Mel's holocaust beliefs that are in question. Pretending Mel can hide for this flimsy reasoning is kinda weak.


A personal fight is a no-win situation for Gibson---he's been savvy enough to keep it out of the press.

This is hated of Gibson, plain and simple---where was this controvesy before Gibson released this film?---he's been the top Hollywood draw for nearly 10 years; somehow this hasn't been brought up.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #419 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by rogue master
Are you referring to pfflam or Hutton Gibson? I think that the same could be said of both. Pfflam, I am tired of your childish rants against Mel Gibson. If you want to speak on this topic without the hatred you feel, then do so. I would gladly welcome it and I know that others would as well. If Mel believed all of this crap spewed from his father it would be blatantly obvious in everything he says and does.

On another note, I saw this article about possible films that Mel Gibson is looking into based upon Old Testament stories.

I don't know who you are but **** **f buddy.

I can call MelGobson an asshole all day long if I want to
. . . and his floating turds that he calls movies; and his idiotic martyr syndrome and twisted sense of the heroic; his bloated sense of masculine tragic-drama . . . kitschy romantic suffering . . a nostalgic sentimentality drips from everything that he does, a sentiment that is reminiscent of the tight black leather and oiled skin machismo and psuedo discipline of fascist aesthetics, and all of his script developments smack of hyper-narcisistic persecution complexes which belie a represses infantile fixation on anal eroticism, which would be fine except that the repression turns such a mundane fascination into a proclivity towards self aggrandizement, paranoia and anal-aggressive tendencies . . . Keep his ugly psyche out my neighborhood!!

. . . . hows that for 'childish rant'!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #420 of 513
Jesus (sorry, had too), pfflam, chill out. Mel's films Braveheart, and The Patriot, stunk to high heaven---if you are familar with William Wallace and the history of the American Rebellion, Those two movies came across as Lethal Weapon 5 and 6, or rather Lethal Claymore and Lethal Musket. I'll give him a tenative pass onWe Were Soldiers.... only because I'm not quite familiar with the history of that battle.


But....

I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ. Granted it's not a pistol whipping on The Sopranos, Sarah Jessica Parker getting it on with her latest john in Sex in the City, or Gibson screwing Michelle Pfeiffer in a hot tub in Tequila Sunrise, but it will have to do for the [Insert Christian pregorative/nickname here] demographic.


Oh, behave!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #421 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I've read "the Book" on The Passion and Gibson has done a credible job---yep it's violent, yep it hurts to watch it---but for most Christians, on the planet, it is a valid protrayal of the events surrounding the death of Christ.

Unfortunately from everything I've heard, while it might be accurate to the book, it's not historically accurate. That's too bad.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #422 of 513
I really take issue with a lot of the Christians who've told me that it was the "Real Story of What Happened". But Gibson used sources other than Scripture as the basis for the movie, as has been mentioned before. If there's any movie which I think would be best termed as the Real Story, I'd have to say it was that massive word-for-word movie version of the Gospel of John that came out last year.

Hearing what a lot of Christians have told me, you'd think that if you didn't like this film, you wouldn't be considered as a "real" Christian. I still haven't had the chance to see it, but all of the hype and overall madness surrounding this movie have already soured me on it.
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post #423 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Unfortunately from everything I've heard, while it might be accurate to the book, it's not historically accurate. That's too bad.


That's because a movie about this man and exactly what happened to him -- by definition -- can always be argued to be "historically inaccurate", regardless of which book you model the movie after.

There is no hard, cold evidence of exactly how the final days of this man's life concluded, nor what exactly he endured at the hands of the Jewish high priests and subsequently the Romans (except that everyone seems to believe he *was* crucified).

So if Gibson had made a movie based on Jewish historical interpretations or Muslim interpretations or Agnostic interpretations, all could be tagged with the "historically inaccurate" label with equal ease by the opposing camps. That is because all of the interpretations are just that: guesses based on fragments of text, our own biases and anthropological clues (not facts).

Gibson told nearly the exact same story Christians have been told for decades at least and probably centuries (how would I know, because I never attended church services centuries ago). The only things that can be called embellishments are the amount of violence (but again, easily argued the other way because which specific physical abuses he endured, nor how many times / for how long), and the satan character (which to my knowledge is not mentioned as being "physically present" in any of the mainstream Christian renditions of the story).

So again, ultimately, those who oppose this movie (officially and otherwise) will either have the balls to come out and say "we have a problem with the way Christians tell this story" or they'll dodge the issue and blame it on Gibson because he's the easier target and the politically correct target.
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post #424 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
The only things that can be called embellishments are the amount of violence

That's my exact complaint actually. I think that's historically inaccurate, not that we can ever know for sure.
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post #425 of 513
Nope. We can't unfortunately....
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post #426 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
. . . hows that for 'childish rant'!

Well done, sir! <golf clap>
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post #427 of 513
Mel Gibson is expected to make 500-700 million dollars himself off this movie (WaPo). I hope everyone realizes that buying a ticket for this movie indirectly subsidizes the wacko agenda he wants to promote. With that kind of dough, he could easily drop tens of millions on his favorite pro-life, anti-birth control, or perhaps anti-holocaust groups. Maybe Gibson will use the money to controversially wallow in another group's history. Who knows? I just know the same applies for any Gibson/Icon movie, so that concern overrides any interest I have in his movies.

The sheer profit Gibson made also forced me to look at the controversy differently. I admit that I was wrong here. The New York Times, The New Yorker, the ADL- they never should have raised the profile of this movie. And I think they definitely did. Maybe it would have been best to ignore it? It just angers me to think the money spent paying the salaries of writers or the resources spent criticizing the movie only fed right into the movie's popularity- and right into into Mel Gibson's pockets.

\
post #428 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
....angers me to think the money spent paying the salaries of writers or the resources spent criticizing the movie only fed right into the movie's popularity- and right into into Mel Gibson's pockets.

\


That is an odd statement. If it works for George Clooney and the Dixie Chicks why isn't Gibson entitled to the same marketing mechanisms?


As for "keep the movie quite" they tried; since we have the internet it simply isn't possible any longer for the Times, Newsweeks, CNNs, and Old Gray Ladies of the media world to squelch opinions and movies they don't approve of. It used to be possible for a book or movies to simply "not exist" in the public consiousness. It was a great tool, and was used often.

The fallback plan was to play the anti-semitism card---a Hail Mary pass at "reporting on controversy", i.e. poisoning the well for Gibson. Anyone with the I.Q. of a cheesburger knows that the very last thing this movie would ever do is cause Christians to flip out and burn synagoges.

You should be greatful they went as far into the land of intellectual dishonesty for your cause as they did.

I don't blame you for being angry. In a culture that encourages expressions like Courtney Love topless on top of Letterman's desk but is busy "branding" (and I mean that as a marketing term) Christians as idiots, assholes, and bigots, allowing a movie that galvanizes Chirstians on the reality of the sacrifice of Christ, is very bad news for those who smear Christian lifestyles and "intentions". We have the internet now, the old ways of cowing Christians aren't going to be effective in the future. If we can't get fair coverage of our beliefs, or funding for pro-Christian entertainment, we'll simply go around the existing obstacles. Gibson just did this in spades.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #429 of 513
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
That is an odd statement. If it works for George Clooney and the Dixie Chicks why isn't Gibson entitled to the same marketing mechanisms?

snip

ve in the future. If we can't get fair coverage of our beliefs, or funding for pro-Christian entertainment, we'll simply go around the existing obstacles. Gibson just did this in spades.

Dude, don't bother to post any more. Seriously. The second anyone contests anything you say, you simply disappear. There's no point in your posting a damn thing. You might as well stop.
post #430 of 513
I would gently remind everyone that personal attacks get threads closed and members banned for a time, but I don't think anyone would listen. Lay off each other for the love of God!
post #431 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Dude, don't bother to post any more. Seriously. The second anyone contests anything you say, you simply disappear. There's no point in your posting a damn thing. You might as well stop.

First of all, I rather enjoyed his post, since it framed the "religious sub-culture" as being empowered in the light of the internet age and I hadn't really thought of it that way before.

Secondly, if I may add, this is an open board for members, so don't be telling any member not to bother to post or how often they should.

Usually people wait to get the 'Moderator' title before they go on power trips.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #432 of 513
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
First of all, I rather enjoyed his post, since it framed the "religious sub-culture" as being empowered in the light of the internet age and I hadn't really thought of it that way before.

Secondly, if I may add, this is an open board for members, so don't be telling any member not to bother to post or how often they should.

Usually people wait to get the 'Moderator' title before they go on power trips.

It doesn't matter whether you enjoyed his post or not because if you wanted to actually take issue of with any of it in any depth he'd simply disappear.

As for the 'power trip' thing, you haven't actually tried arguing with him. It's very frustrating.

It's great that he (or she) makes the huge declarations and out-there assertions that he does but it's immensely annoying that he makes them with no intention of actually discussing them. It's like being hacked by a priest and in my opinion it's not on. This is a forum, not a personal pulpit.
post #433 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
As for "keep the movie quite" they tried; since we have the internet it simply isn't possible any longer for the Times, Newsweeks, CNNs, and Old Gray Ladies of the media world to squelch opinions and movies they don't approve of. It used to be possible for a book or movies to simply "not exist" in the public consiousness. It was a great tool, and was used often.

You have them confused with the book burners. Squelching things they don't approve of is more of a Church/Republican thing. Don't give me this "liberal media is repressing christians" horse dung. There are just as many if not more conservative outlets, and you can't trip and not fall on some religious channel. I never see any signs that say "Christians not welcome" or "No Christians allowed". You were never rounded up and sent to death camps or used as cheap labour on plantations, because you were Christian. There aren't organizations out there to hang you because you're Christian. Please get over it.

Quote:
I don't blame you for being angry. In a culture that encourages expressions like Courtney Love topless on top of Letterman's desk but is busy "branding" (and I mean that as a marketing term) Christians as idiots, assholes, and bigots, allowing a movie that galvanizes Chirstians on the reality of the sacrifice of Christ, is very bad news for those who smear Christian lifestyles and "intentions". We have the internet now, the old ways of cowing Christians aren't going to be effective in the future. If we can't get fair coverage of our beliefs, or funding for pro-Christian entertainment, we'll simply go around the existing obstacles. Gibson just did this in spades.

People didn't brand Christians as anything. You guys do more than enough "branding" for yourselves. Like the town banning gays, or the preachers that stand on corners and scream their heads off that everyone around them is going to hell (mostly because they aren't screaming like idiots as well). Then we have the televangelists, Oral Roberts being told by G-d that he'll go to hell unless he raises 1 million dollars, 9/11 being caused because we're a country of sinners, AIDS being the way G-d will destroy Gays... the list goes on and on.

Christians don't want "fair" coverage for your beliefs. Christians want anything that disagrees with their view and religion banned. Christians want anything that challenges them at all banned. You want your beliefs legislated as law. Kind of like the Taliban did.
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post #434 of 513
Sounds like you have everyone figured out and categorized into little boxes.

Quote:
Originally posted by FaydRautha
You were never rounded up and sent to death camps or used as cheap labour on plantations, because you were Christian.

Well, according to your version of history, maybe not. There have been many people sent to death camps and many people taken into slavery over the years.

"Christians" are to ____________
as ____________ is to "Taliban"
post #435 of 513
Back to the movie. I have not seen it and don't intend to see it. It just sounds too violent and not faithful to the underlying spirit of the Bible. He suffered and died, yes, but what about his teachings, the real meaning of the Ressurection, and the long-term relationship of faith?

Mel's gotta ask himself what he - Mel - was trying to achieve and whether he achieved it. Mel also has to ask himself whether what he was trying to achieve is consistent with Christ's teachings.

Also, I think that Christians, generally, should ask themselves why Christianity has become associated, in many people's minds, with extreme right-wing political beliefs. That's just wrong, in my opinion. Jesus was a liberal - perhaps even a socialist (although he's available for right-wingers too, if they act real nice.)
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post #436 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by FaydRautha
You have them confused with the book burners. Squelching things they don't approve of is more of a Church/Republican thing.

In America at the present time, this is simply not the case.


Quote:
Originally posted by FaydRautha
Christians don't want "fair" coverage for your beliefs..............You want your beliefs legislated as law. Kind of like the Taliban did. [/B]


This is simply a truism, all people would like to see their concepts of right and wrong codified.

(but if you can't get those beliefs codified democraticly you can always go see the mayor of San Franciso)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #437 of 513
Quote:
Gibson Planning Jewish Movie

Hollywood star Mel Gibson is already planning his next foray into the weighty world of religious film-making - he wants to make a movie about the origins of the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah. Gibson - who was criticized by some quarters of the Jewish church, who accused his epic The Passion Of The Christ of blaming Jews for Jesus Christ's death - has hinted he may make a filmed account of the Revolt Of The Maccabees, the story behind Hanukkah. The 46-year-old says, "The story that's always fired my imagination is the Book of Maccabees. "The Maccabees family stood up, and they made war. They stuck by their guns and they came out winning. It's like a western." The Maccabees led a three year war, 200 years before the birth of Jesus, against Antiochus, a king who forced the Jews to worship false gods. The war led to the liberation of Jerusalem. Gibson's interest in Jewish history concerns the Jewish Anti-defamation League. National director Abe Foxman says, "My answer would be, 'Thanks but no thanks.' The last thing we need in Jewish history is to convert our history into a western." Meanwhile, Gibson is set to become the richest star in the world thanks to a series of clever financial tie-ins to his self-funded film. The Passion's soundtrack has already rocketed to the top of the Christian and Soundtrack charts in America, becoming one of the best-selling albums in both territories. And other Passion merchandise is flying off shelves too - photography book The Passion: Photography from the Movie The Passion of the Christ has debuted high on America's new bestsellers' list, and jewelry items such as "The Passion Nail Pendant" have become fashion statements for fervent Christians.

(IMDb)

The Passion made Mel Gibson "THE RICHEST STAR IN THE WORLD." \
post #438 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by Chinney
Back to the movie. I have not seen it and don't intend to see it. It just sounds too violent and not faithful to the underlying spirit of the Bible. He suffered and died, yes, but what about his teachings, the real meaning of the Ressurection, and the long-term relationship of faith?

Mel's gotta ask himself what he - Mel - was trying to achieve and whether he achieved it. Mel also has to ask himself whether what he was trying to achieve is consistent with Christ's teachings.

Amen to that. I was really disappointed when I kept on hearing about the gore and the violence. People go on about how it'll change people to "see the light", but it seems to me that this movie would actually drive people away from Christianity. Where's the positive message? I for one, was very disappointed to hear that they barely glossed over Peter's triple denial of Jesus in the courtyard. To me, that's a very important aspect of the Crucifixion, as was Jesus' appearance to the apostle Thomas.

And of course, the money thing. I wouldn't mind so much slapping down $12 or so to see his movie if I knew that it was all going to a good cause, like going to Christian charties and relief organizations in Africa and Asia, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Quote:
Also, I think that Christians, generally, should ask themselves why Christianity has become associated, in many people's minds, with extreme right-wing political beliefs. That's just wrong, in my opinion. Jesus was a liberal - perhaps even a socialist.

I've asked myself that many, many times. The jaded part of me tells me that it's just a raw power trip. These people want to be the ones calling the shots, and really, what better way to hold unequivocal power over other people than to hold total power over their religion? I'm sure it's occured to people like Robertson and Fallwell that they hold tremendous mindshare in the United States, even if it is somewhat marginalized by mainstream Christianity.

I'd love to see more "left-wing" associated movements in Christianity; maybe a PBS TV series on how Christians are changing their attitudes towards the LGBT community, or opening up dialog with other religions. It'd be nice to see something about Christianity in the mainstream that isn't like or associated with The Wedge Strategy.
"Do you know this company was on the brink of bankruptcy in '85? The same thing in '88, '90, and '92. It will survive. It always has."
-Former Apple CEO Michael Spindler
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"Do you know this company was on the brink of bankruptcy in '85? The same thing in '88, '90, and '92. It will survive. It always has."
-Former Apple CEO Michael Spindler
Reply
post #439 of 513
A friend of mine went to see another movie which was sold out . . . so she saw the Passion. She said that it was one of the single worst movies she has ever experienced . . . .she said that whatever inclination towards Christianity she had before the movie she has NONE afterwards!

She said that it was so unnecessarily brutal and violent that it actually became FUNNY and that whe couldn't help laughing by late in the film.
She said that it was obviouse that 'This Gibson guy' was screwed up psychologically, that the film was seriously Sado/masochistic and had no value in any spiritual sense

She described scenes that were incredibly gratuitous: such as, when all the beatings, in slow motion, were done with and the cross was being put up . . . it slips and falls face down on the ground . . .
. . . I don't get it? what sort of pleasure does Gibson get from brutalizing the image of Jesus . . . because that's what it sounds like . . . he is getting pleasure, in some sort of repressed way, out of attacking the image of Jesus . . . there seems to be no sorrow in it but rather some sort of pleasure . . . getting his kicks out of beating Jesus.

She also said that it was not made well and reminded her of a low budget slasher film
She described a scene where there are two people at teh base of the cross: one fellow starts to feel remorse but the other fellow is laughing . . then all of a sudden a crow flies down and plucks out the eyes of the laughing fellow! - - I have to agree with her that that sounds absurdly stupid and simplistic . . . but that's just me . .

She hadn't followed any of the hoopla at all but seemed to know a little of the complaits about the movie . . . but, she said that it was undoubtably and obviously anti-Semitic . .. in so many ways that she couldn't believe it . . . in its characterizations and in its general tenor as well as the way it pitted the 'throngs' of Middle-eastern looking mobs against the gentle Roman and teh European looking esus and his gang . . .

Anyway . . . she seemed to think that the film was unbelievably bad and would NOT act as a recruitment for Christians at all because it revealed some sick and twisted psychology that was not at all spiritual or graceful.

She told me that the only way that I would ever be able to sit through the movie would be to rent it and make some kind of game out of it: like maybe a drink everytime that he hits the floor in SLOW MOTION . .. or iis beat senselessly . . . \
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #440 of 513
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
A friend of mine went to see another movie which was sold out . . . so she saw the Passion. She said that it was one of the single worst movies she has ever experienced . . . .she said that whatever inclination towards Christianity she had before the movie she has NONE afterwards!

She said that it was so unnecessarily brutal and violent that it actually became FUNNY and that whe couldn't help laughing by late in the film.
She said that it was obviouse that 'This Gibson guy' was screwed up psychologically, that the film was seriously Sado/masochistic and had no value in any spiritual sense

She described scenes that were incredibly gratuitous: such as, when all the beatings, in slow motion, were done with and the cross was being put up . . . it slips and falls face down on the ground . . .
. . . I don't get it? what sort of pleasure does Gibson get from brutalizing the image of Jesus . . . because that's what it sounds like . . . he is getting pleasure, in some sort of repressed way, out of attacking the image of Jesus . . . there seems to be no sorrow in it but rather some sort of pleasure . . . getting his kicks out of beating Jesus.

She also said that it was not made well and reminded her of a low budget slasher film
She described a scene where there are two people at teh base of the cross: one fellow starts to feel remorse but the other fellow is laughing . . then all of a sudden a crow flies down and plucks out the eyes of the laughing fellow! - - I have to agree with her that that sounds absurdly stupid and simplistic . . . but that's just me . .

She hadn't followed any of the hoopla at all but seemed to know a little of the complaits about the movie . . . but, she said that it was undoubtably and obviously anti-Semitic . .. in so many ways that she couldn't believe it . . . in its characterizations and in its general tenor as well as the way it pitted the 'throngs' of Middle-eastern looking mobs against the gentle Roman and teh European looking esus and his gang . . .

Anyway . . . she seemed to think that the film was unbelievably bad and would NOT act as a recruitment for Christians at all because it revealed some sick and twisted psychology that was not at all spiritual or graceful.

She told me that the only way that I would ever be able to sit through the movie would be to rent it and make some kind of game out of it: like maybe a drink everytime that he hits the floor in SLOW MOTION . .. or iis beat senselessly . . . \

Don't watch the silly film then pfflam. I find it interesting that you spend so much time ripping Gibson as claim you are appalled at his (ripping) of Jesus in the film. I am not so sure that you are not the one with a bigger ripping reputation.

As for anti-Semitic that is pure Bullshit. Anyone who watches this film themselves and not making reference to (well so and so saw it and they said...) knows there is a very specific scene with Mary in it looking at the audience (as to indicate that it is all of us who are responsible) for nailing Jesus to the cross.

If you want to rent it and play drinking games go right ahead.

You big man.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
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