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ex Pentagon Ltn Colenel, military analyst forced out by ideologues: neocons

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
title says it, and this Colonel was pretty darned conservative

K. Kwiatkowski, Colonel

Aparently the Pentagon became over-run by people who were so driven by a predefined goal (an ideology) that Kwiatkowski felt the need to retire in order to bring the ideologically extreme positions out to the public.

PLEASE READ IT BEFORE YOU LABEL IT BUSH BASHING

the article is admittedly from a biased source but Kwiatkowski has been a life long staunch conservative

the article is an interview: some good quotes:
Quote:
They [the Office of Special Plans (set up by Chenney in the Pentagon)] pushed an agenda on Iraq, and they developed pretty sophisticated propaganda lines which were fed throughout government, to the Congress, and even internally to the Pentagon to try and make this case of immediacy. This case of severe threat to the United States.

Quote:
There was a sort of groupthink, an adopted storyline: We are going to invade Iraq and we are going to eliminate Saddam Hussein and we are going to have bases in Iraq. This was all a given even by the time I joined them, in May of 2002.

Quote:
The concerns were only that some policymakers still had to get onboard with this agenda. Not that this agenda was right or wrong but that we needed to convince the remaining holdovers. Colin Powell, for example. There was a lot of frustration with Powell; [ . . . ] General Tony Zinni is another one.

Quote:
They were very anti-anybody who might provide information that affected their paradigm. They were the spin enforcers.

Quote:
That decision [To invade Iraq] was made by the time I got there. So there was no debate over WMD, the possible relations Saddam Hussein may have had with terrorist groups and so on. They [OSP] spent their energy gathering pieces of information and creating a propaganda storyline, which is the same storyline we heard the president and Vice President Cheney tell the American people in the fall of 2002.

on the knowledge prior to invasion of WMD by the Pentagon:
Quote:
Its not about interest. We knew. We knew from many years of both high-level surveillance and other types of shared intelligence, not to mention the information from the U.N., we knew, we knew what was left [from the Gulf War] and the viability of any of that. Bush said he didnt know.

The truth is, we know [Saddam] didnt have these things. Almost a billion dollars has been spent a billion dollars! by David Kays group to search for these WMD, a total whitewash effort. They didnt find anything, they didnt expect to find anything..

especially revealing, from this Conservative Colonel in the Pentagon, there were three reasons that the Neocons wanted to invade:
Quote:
One of those reasons is that sanctions and containment were working and everybody pretty much knew it. Many companies around the world were preparing to do business with Iraq in anticipation of a lifting of sanctions. But the U.S. and the U.K. had been bombing northern and southern Iraq since 1991. So it was very unlikely that we would be in any kind of position to gain significant contracts in any post-sanctions Iraq. And those sanctions were going to be lifted soon, Saddam would still be in place, and we would get no financial benefit.

second reason: bases
The third reason is also very revealing . . . I'll leave it to you when you read the interview . . . I'll just say that it is not surprising.

other quotes: when asked how it feels to be out of the military and writing against former bosses:
Quote:
Know what it feels like? It feels like duty. Thats what it feels like. Ive thought about it many times. You know, I spent 20 years working for something that at least under this administration turned out to be something I wasnt working for. I mean, these people have total disrespect for the Constitution. We swear an oath, military officers and NCOs alike swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. These people have no respect for the Constitution. The Congress was misled, it was lied to. At a very minimum that is a subversion of the Constitution. A pre-emptive war based on what we knew was not a pressing need is not what this country stands for.


What I feel now is that Im not retired. I still have a responsibility to do my part as a citizen to try and correct the problem.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #2 of 36
Thread Starter 
38 people have viewed this and found it irrelevant?

This is important stuff . . . do I need to paraphrase it:

A Pentagon insider states very very clearly that the within the Pentagon, before 911 even, Cheney had set up an office (Office of Special Plans) who's direct goal was to propogate a goal . . . and that goal was to make a case, despite the facts, that we need to invade Iraq.

What this means is that O'Neil was right, except that it was through the Pentagon (at least one channel at play) that the Neocon admin worked its propagandizing.

This isn't just another "liberal" slagging Bush . . . this Colonel was a die-hard Conservative Military-lifer
But the Neocons took over . . .

Why won't this get any air play?
is it too much to read?
What are teh implications?
is it just too obviouse . . . so much so that to have it spelled out from the inside seems meaningless nowdays . . . ?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #3 of 36
[Sh]e should campaign with whatever democrat is running against Cheney, I mean Bush.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #4 of 36
you're experiencing what's known as the trumptman phenomenon.
post #5 of 36
The famous distorsion field is no more the property of Apple.
post #6 of 36
Quote:
You gave your life to the military, you voted Republican for many years, you say you served in the Pentagon right up to the outbreak of war. What does it feel like to be out now, publicly denouncing your old bosses?

Know what it feels like? It feels like duty. Thats what it feels like. Ive thought about it many times. You know, I spent 20 years working for something that at least under this administration turned out to be something I wasnt working for. I mean, these people have total disrespect for the Constitution. We swear an oath, military officers and NCOs alike swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. These people have no respect for the Constitution. The Congress was misled, it was lied to. At a very minimum that is a subversion of the Constitution. A pre-emptive war based on what we knew was not a pressing need is not what this country stands for.

What I feel now is that Im not retired. I still have a responsibility to do my part as a citizen to try and correct the problem.

That's a beautiful paragraph.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Written/Sung by Paul Simon

I am just a poor boy, though my story's seldom told.
I have squandered my resistance,
For a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises.
All lies and jest.
Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
...
Lie la Lie


seems to fit the pattern of this Admin ignoring intel it doesn't agree with. Stovepiping.
ignoring Wilson confirmation that 'SH seeking Uranium from Niger" was an obvious lie,
ignoring Nobel Scientists and researchers it doesn't agree with in favour of pliant crony appointees,
ignoring IAEA and UN inspectors whose logic that stockpiled WMD are absent or degraded seem... TRUE!

Amb. Wilson and former Clinton Chief of Staff John Podesta were on Charlie Rose last night
Wilson was quite clear about how obvious the forgeries were in the Niger info,
and how those in the VPs office or WH didn't want to hear anything but "good news".
They certainly didn't want any suggestions the emperor's wardrobe was lacking, so the attack dogs were released to out CIA agent Plame and try to undermine the impact of the honest information in Wilson's report with misdirection, smear, and character assassination as traitorous or unpatriotic.

Holy Fingers-in-Ears-LALALALA-Selective-Willful-Ignorance Batman!

Faced with the behaviour of a child, maybe I should grab the lyrics to Schoolyard
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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post #8 of 36
It's a beautiful thing when someone decides to be an American and not a party zealot. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot more of this in the coming months.

There'll be more O'Neills, Kays, Kwiatkowskis etc. Too bad it has to take an inordinate amount of balls to "come out" these days. The penalty of going through a "Joe Wilson/Plame" scenario has got to be keeping many others from "coming out".

Can you imagine the scandal something like this would have been made to be under Clinton? Even though I wasn't much into politics at the time, I know I probably would have done some Clinton bashing.
post #9 of 36
Pfflam, Lt. K. deserves to be called a true American "HERO". She and a few other brave souls who were formally "insiders", whom have stepped forward will continue to get very little mainstream press. As Gilsch said,"There'll be more O'Neills, Kays, Kwiatkowskis"... These people will have to face character assasination or lack of coverage to negate their message.

Furthermore, too many Americans don't care to know what's going on behind those closed doors. Politicaly, we're a nation of flippen sheep man. Obviously, not all of us, just too many of us...

Those folks in the Whitehouse, the men that run the world's conglomerates, they count on the "average" American's obsession with Sports, Jacko, Madonna*Christina*Britney and whatever TV show or movie is popular at the moment. The list goes on and on and on.

This post, along with the Haitian post, shoud be jumping. Instead, what has taken up everyone's attention here at AI, the supernatural... Heh, poking fun there a bit.

As an aside, I've been a long time conservative Republican (until recently) most of my adult life, I find the LA Weekly to have some of the most thoroughly researched and insightful articles written. Yes, they're coming with a leftist bent, so what. The truth is the truth. Good link Pfflam!
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #10 of 36
Where's the outrage for the "outage" of that CIA operative and all the agents under her!!! The rat seems to come from the Whitehouse itself! It goes on and on. Yet, as I travel thoughout the country, speaking "real talk" to my fellow white folk, TOO many of them seem to think that Bush was sent by GOD to lead the USA in it's time of need. It leaves me a bit nervous and a bit frightened over the political consciousness of my country.

Sorry pfflam, had to throw this in.
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardhead

Sorry pfflam, had to throw this in.

go for it!


"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #12 of 36
Huh pfflam, what'd I tell ya...

On to the supernatural!
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
post #13 of 36
Yeah, I'm bumping pfflam's post. It makes a good duo along with the Ann Coulter discussion.

You guys are missing out on an excellent article. This is further evidence of where this administration is taking us

Karl Rove and Co= bunch of punks and rats...
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
Reply
post #14 of 36
Ok I'll bump it to! This is another example of Bush's great ( gack! ) leadership and needs to be heard!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #15 of 36
I dunno... I guess maybe I'm not surprised by it at all.

The vice president and his fellow neocons pushing an agenda on pumped up intel?!?! say it aint so!

I'm just happy to see other conservatives and military professionals speaking out... the more the better.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
There'll be more O'Neills, Kays, Kwiatkowskis etc.

It is pretty wild how many folks have jumped ship and then all basically said the same things about the inner workings of the admin.
post #17 of 36
Jut to note who I am referring to: Rand Beers, former NSC counterterrorism chief, and John DiIulio, former head of the White House's faith-based programs.
post #18 of 36
Oh, and then we had Chalabi talking to CNN about the admin insisting that power be handed over in June specifically so Bush could go to Iraq in October and congradulate the new government just in time to help himself be reelected.

But no matter how many times party devotees hear this stuff straight from the sources, for some reason they have continually been unable to believe it.
post #19 of 36
Gotta love those Republicans so worried about national security they can't give the 9/11 commission more time.

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003357.html
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Gotta love those Republicans so worried about national security they can't give the 9/11 commission more time.

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003357.html

Will this raise any flags?


i doubt it . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #21 of 36
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/I...on_040225.html

Maybe the neocons will start running for the hills... I doubt the military establishment is going to put up with too much more nonsense.

Brass doesn't like it when suits get their soldiers killed for unproven ideology.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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post #22 of 36
of course, his main work is done.
post #23 of 36
Thread Starter 
"The New Pentagon Papers" The Colenel herself has written an article.

To read the whole thing simply go through day pass: three clicks no info given et voila!

(unfortunately she is not the best writer . . . but her skills at prosody are not the issue)

Quote:
I witnessed neoconservative agenda bearers within OSP usurp measured and carefully considered assessments, and through suppression and distortion of intelligence analysis promulgate what were in fact falsehoods to both Congress and the executive office of the president.

here is much much more . . . five pages.

She maps out the influence of the neo-conservative philosophy and shows how it is directly related to the program put forward in the Pax Americana doctrine . . . . so now I can mention it and you people won't think I am some nut-case . . . . it is these people, a group of chums who have worked together for over a decade, that now run American foriegn policy . . . that now run it into the ground!

read it . . . if you can get through her terrible prose . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #24 of 36
Col K connects some scary dots in her picture of neocon manipulations of intel.
Combined with Seymour Hersh's Stovepipe, General Zinni, and now Chalabi bragging about 'truth not mattering' and other, should we say *Confirmed* or would we just get accused of piling on
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #25 of 36
What was the name of the neocon group that half the administration belonged to before Bush got the Whitehouse? Amercian Policy Institute? They had the invasion of Iraq as their plan to democratize the middle East all along. 9/11 just provided the excuse.

I can't wait until China pre-emtively invades Taiwan and Russia invades Tadjikistan and India invades Pakistan and Israel invades Palestine (oh ya, that's right-pours gasoline on the conversation). This policy will bite us one day.
post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
What was the name of the neocon group that half the administration belonged to before Bush got the Whitehouse? Amercian Policy Institute? They had the invasion of Iraq as their plan to democratize the middle East all along. 9/11 just provided the excuse.

I can't wait until China pre-emtively invades Taiwan and Russia invades Tadjikistan and India invades Pakistan and Israel invades Palestine (oh ya, that's right-pours gasoline on the conversation). This policy will bite us one day.

That is discussed in the article by the Colonel . . . she maps out, not just 'the American Plicy Institute' members that now run the Administration but shows how they invaded the Pentagon and used it as a propaganda vehicle . . .
and more . . . read it!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
What was the name of the neocon group that half the administration belonged to before Bush got the Whitehouse? Amercian Policy Institute?

The Project for the New American Century


I am increasingly of the opinion that the true reason the neocons pushed for war in Iraq because they felt it was they best way to ensure American military supremacy for another few decades. Either bases or democracy (either would work, but democracy is cheaper and less risky politically) in Iraq provide an additional foothold in the Mid East and keeps oil flowing. Access to oil ensures that tanks, jets and bombers can be fuelled.

Maybe this desire to keep America as the worlds' sole superpower simply stems from the neocons wanting the USA to be #1. Or maybe they really are worried about the impending environmental apocalypse the Pentagon wanted to warn us all about...maybe the neocons want to ensure the US is strong enough to face China / India / Russia in case climate change causes world wide famines that lead to world war III.

Whatever it is, I think that the neocons regard themselves as patriots. I think they do what they are doing not because they want to lie and cheat and beggar America in order to create profit for their corporate contributors and CEO cronies, but because they believe they know what is best for America. When you think about it, money isn't important at all...the raw materials that you need to survive are all that really counts.
post #28 of 36
double post
post #29 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
The Project for the New American Century


I am increasingly of the opinion that the true reason the neocons pushed for war in Iraq because they felt it was they best way to ensure American military supremacy for another few decades. Either bases or democracy (either would work, but democracy is cheaper and less risky politically) in Iraq provide an additional foothold in the Mid East and keeps oil flowing. Access to oil ensures that tanks, jets and bombers can be fuelled.

Maybe this desire to keep America as the worlds' sole superpower simply stems from the neocons wanting the USA to be #1. Or maybe they really are worried about the impending environmental apocalypse the Pentagon wanted to warn us all about...maybe the neocons want to ensure the US is strong enough to face China / India / Russia in case climate change causes world wide famines that lead to world war III.

Whatever it is, I think that the neocons regard themselves as patriots. I think they do what they are doing not because they want to lie and cheat and beggar America in order to create profit for their corporate contributors and CEO cronies, but because they believe they know what is best for America. When you think about it, money isn't important at all...the raw materials that you need to survive are all that really counts.

Good points,
I am inclined to agree with you.
The problem is is that America is a Democracy and such far reaching agendas should be layed out on the table before all-of us . . . otherwise the very nature of the nation to which one claims patriotism has essentially changed.

That's why such activity, if it is in fact the case, is tantamount to High Treason:
It negates the qualities of America that make it worth being proud of a rewrite its form of government with a covert form of despotism.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #30 of 36
I think that the obfuscation and outright lying that is going on is symptomatic of an arrogance inherent to the Bush administration. They are obviously intelligent individuals (particularly those with ties to the PNAC...some of them come across as being quite brilliant). The problem is that they feel that their abilities and experience make them better equipped than the average American to make decisions for the average American. While it might make sense to many people, meritocratic rule by a self-regarded intellectual elite is anathema to democracy.
post #31 of 36
Thread Starter 
FOX news interviewed the Colonel . . . and then had their own hatchet man pathetically call her names and slander her in the most idiotic fashion: it is a good example of how teh Faux Channel subtly but very consistently rewrites people as worthless or just plain bad and wrong . . . they are INCREDIBLE!

It also shows that the Colonel is VERY CONSERVATIVE ideologically, and doesn't really mind the notion of invading Iraq . . . if the reasons were real as stated (think about that you BushLickers!)

(I have to post the whole thing otherwise you would have to go through a lengthy process to be able to read it:

"The Big Story on Faux News

The big story on Fox News last night was Karen Kwiatkowski, the Pentagon whistleblower who wrote this exclusive insider's account in Salon about how the administration manufactured its case for war in Iraq. From the transcript, it's clear Kwiatkowski doesn't change the mind of "The Big Story" host John Gibson, who goes on to call Kwiatkowski an anarchist and sympathizes with the counterpoint guest, an RNC spokesman who has zero inside information about the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans but joins us to provide political cover for the administration. What is the GOP to do "when people like that are talking and scoring points with people in the public," Gibson wonders.

You know Gibson's desperate when he belittles valid concerns about Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi's role in the march to war by saying Kwiatkowski "saw Chalabi around the office, didn't like him and thought he was a punk."

Fox doesn't have the transcript on its Web site, so we pulled it from Nexis. For sake of space, we trimmed just a bit:

KWIATKOWSKI: My concern is that George Tenet is absolutely correct. The facts that he had were not even used. The facts that were used to make up the propaganda, the content of the presidential speeches in the fall of 2002, much of that information was never produced by the CIA. It was information from other sources.

GIBSON: Well, right. But why do you call it propaganda? I mean, people who are elected to make decisions about the safety of the nation have to make a prudent decision based on the information they see. Why would you characterize the information they see and what they say about their decisions as propaganda instead of prudent decisions? What do you know?

KWIATKOWSKI: Yes. Well, prudence does not enter into the things that were said in the fall of 2002 to the Congress and to the American people. That was very imprudent as we know now, as the president has had to backtrack on many of those things. So, prudence doesn't enter it.

GIBSON: Wait a minute, are you saying that war was such a grave error that today Saddam Hussein should still be running Iraq?

KWIATKOWSKI: I like how you put that question.

GIBSON: Well, what's the answer?

KWIATKOWSKI: I'm no fan of Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein should not be running Iraq but the Iraqi people should be the ones that make that decision not ...

GIBSON: But Ms. Kwiatkowski, what you seem to be saying is, yes, I want it both ways, I want Saddam Hussein gone but I want to criticize the president for doing it because I don't like the reasons he cited for doing it.

KWIATKOWSKI: You know what? I don't like the lies that are being called reasons. Ok? There are some very valid reasons for this country to have gone in and toppled Saddam Hussein. None of those reasons were presented by the president or the vice president ...

GIBSON: Tell me what you think were good reasons.

KWIATKOWSKI: There are good reasons that some people may or may not agree with, and one of them is to change our geo-strategic military footprint in the Middle East, to reduce our dependency on bases that we currently have in Saudi Arabia.

GIBSON: Rights, but as a political military analyst, would you guess that would have convinced the world that that was a good reason for war?

KWIATKOWSKI: To me, it's irrelevant if it convinced the world. Like the president says, this country doesn't need to convince the world to go and do something in its own interests

GIBSON: I don't understand why you're criticizing the president for acting on information he saw, characterizing that information as lies and at the same time you're saying you agree what he did.

KWIATKOWSKI: Frankly, I don't agree with him going into Iraq and toppling Saddam Hussein when he did based on lies. The fact that Saddam Hussein may have needed to have been toppled at some point by his own people. This is something the United states could have supported in any number of ways, but he chose not to. He chose to put in a force and he based it on false information, most of which he's already identified as being false information.

GIBSON: What was false? Was it false that Saddam Hussein was murdering his own people? Was it false ...

KWIATKOWSKI: Him and 50 other guys, half of which are our allies. Yes. How about this question? How about this question? Mushroom clouds over St. Louis? Do you think that's reasonable? That is not reasonable and that's not what the intelligence community gave him.

GIBSON: You know, Ms. Kwiatkowski, I've gone over the State of the Union address and the address to the United Nations and so forth. I didn't see anything about mushroom clouds over St. Louis.

KWIATKOWSKI: Did you look at the October 11 Cincinnati speech ...

GIBSON: Let me ask you, you are criticizing the president for going to war and it appears as a lieutenant -- a lieutenant colonel, you are claiming you saw all of the information the president had and can make a judgment about whether he made the right decision on that information or not. How do you know this?

KWIATKOWSKI: I'll tell you what. I'm a citizen of the United States. Ahmed Chalabi, I saw him in the office, he was a key source of information. He has admitted as much. He has said if his information was wrong, it doesn't matter. Well, you know what, we have 130,000 troops in Iraq. It does matter. OK, false pretenses, it matters. The president has made a grave error and he owes it to the American people to fully explain what he's doing.

GIBSON: Retired US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski. Thanks.

GIBSON: For another perspective, Cliff May is a former communications director for the Republican National Committee. Cliff, today's big question, well, what do you have to say?

CLIFFORD MAY, FMR RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Let me tell you a dirty secret of Washington, John, that you probably know. In any administration, there are people in the bureaucracies, in the State Department, in the Defense Department, who disagree with the policies of the president. Now, sometimes they manage to hang up their politics on the door as they walk in. Sometimes they resign and sometimes they do what she did which is to write anonymous articles and make an effort to undermine the administration for which she was working. And I'm afraid that's what she did. And she wrote for some very, and does, radical associations from Lyndon LaRouche, to Lincoln (ph) Rockwell to Guerrilla News Network, where she was guerrilla of the year, to Liberation News Service, to DangerousCitizen.com.

GIBSON: That's the guest I just had on?

MAY: Yes, that is the guest. Let me read something she said. She knew what she was doing was wrong, I think. She wrote the following -- "Hardcore anarchists and other purists might criticize me for not just throwing a few grenades over the office dividers and letting the chips fall where they may, but by this time I had already submitted my retirement request and I wanted to spend the money, not time in Leavenworth." She also said, John, that some American government policies makes consideration of anarchism or violent revolution attractive. Incremental change may not be possible. Again, I ...

GIBSON: But Cliff, what do you do when you have people like her out there saying the president lied about why we went to war, I saw everything the president saw, I'm telling you it was a lie. I saw Ahmed Chalabi around the office. I didn't like him. I thought he was a punk, and he lied. What do you do when people like that are talking and scoring points with people in the public?

MAY: Boy, that's a good question. I'm not sure I have a very good answer.

GIBSON: You have to have, Cliff, because she's doing it.

MAY: I know she is. I think you're right. I think that people in the administration, not just me, need to say this sort of talk at a time when we're at war is really a very bad idea. And these people are saying things that are simply not true. As you point out, we have numerous intelligence agencies. We have a lot of information that goes to the president. And by the way, people need to understand that intelligence is not a clear picture. It's an inkblot test.

GIBSON: But is this an example -- is that woman we just had on, the anarchist, as you describe, is this an example of those people who did not agree with the intelligence assessment and who formed the consensus in the CIA that Iraq wasn't as bad as the vice president, the president, the secretary of defense thought it were? Is that who was saying, no, no, we're not going to give you permission to go to war on these reasons because we won't form a consensus that these reasons are right.

MAY: That's not really their job. The job of the intelligence ...

GIBSON: But that's it, isn't it?

MAY: What they are supposed to do -- what is supposed to happen is you're supposed to gather intelligence, analyze intelligence by a different group of people, and then make policy based on it. We have a lot of it right now for a very specific reason, and that is after 9/11, this president set a lot of policies that we pursued in the past haven't really worked. And that's why 9/11 happened, we need to change our policies. That means that everybody who helped form those earlier policies had an investment in them and was very reluctant to see any kinds of changes. There are people in the administration, I'm sorry to say, and I've heard this -- who say, look, the White House, if that is the Christmas help -- if we just wait a while, it'll be gone and we can continue to do what we've always done so well.

GIBSON: Clifford May, president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. Cliff, thanks a lot, appreciate it."
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #32 of 36
DICK Chenney is GOD.

Sorry, didn't mean to kill another thread...

I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
post #33 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Artman @_@

Really!

You're acting like a fool, and, surprinsingly, like an ass!

Do me a favor and delete your stupid post

you don't like this thread then stay the fvck out of it!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #34 of 36
Thread Starter 
Another update:

from HERE

seems that the PR machine has its eyes on discrediting the Colonel.

From the article:
Quote:
Kwiatkowski's right-wing critics could not challenge her facts, not a single one, so they immediately reached for the tar brush. The Wall Street Journal smeared her as "something of a right-wing crank." Max Boot, a conservative columnist for the Los Angeles Times, trashed her as "flaky."

One thing tht the article notes is that The Colonel is Cosnervative . . Libertarian even . . . and that none of her critics, thus far, have been in military unifom . . .

anyway its interesting even if it turns out to be anarticle that wants you to subscribe to Salon for supporting Kwiatkowski . . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #35 of 36
We are all waiting for responses from the conservatives on the board.
Why the silence?

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
We are all waiting for responses from the conservatives on the board.
Why the silence?


Howdy, Though I agree with much of what this thread has propogated, I disagree the automatic link between conservatives and Bush. I'm conservative, and I'm very much anti-shrub. Did the administration mislead and warp intellegence? Yes, and the proof is and has been leaking out at a slow trickle for the last 11 months. Does the administration have a history of understating displeasing figures while painting beautiful falsities? Yes, the January announcement of 2.6million jobs this year is again proof of the Nefarious Mr Bush and Co. (NMB&C) wouldn't know the truth if it where a WMD in the middle of the Iraqi desert.

Many aspects of NMB&C policy are so unconservative that we shoud call a turd a turd and say these policies are liberal. Drugs for the elderly woo-hoo. I'm sorry, but social security, and medicare where not ment to be sole sources of income. They where suppose to suppliment prudent savings... Or my favorate, "Dude lets run huge defecits, Regan did and whoa man whoa!" The effects on huge defecits are minor when compared to advanced technology, but lets face it guys. The US is barely the top dog on the block anymore. We need to guard ourselves financially least we become early 90's Russia falling into bankruptcy.

So, to conclude my disjointed rant, Conservative != administration lap dog. Thank you and have a good day

Vote no on proposition NMB&C in November BTW.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
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