or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Richard Clarke
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Richard Clarke - Page 7

post #241 of 402
BTW, good post giant, and well worth the read

also, anybody note that Hammas just came out and said that Bush is "the" enemy . . . and more specifically:
Quote:
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- The new Hamas leader in Gaza on Sunday called President Bush an enemy of Islam and said that "God declared war" against the United States

now I haven't found any refference to Iraq in any of the articles that I have seen on this but it seems to be part of the background of this

It seems that the dominoes are not falling towards democracy in people's opinions in the Middle-East . . . hmmm? Whoodda figured?!?!

more:
Quote:
"We knew that Bush is the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam and Muslims," Rantisi told the crowd. "America declared war against God. Sharon declared war against God and God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon."

"The war of God continues against them and I can see the victory coming up from the land of Palestine by the hand of Hamas," he said.


also, possibly related: Pakistan seems to have caved into pressure form local Islamist groups who called for an end to the siege against the Islamic fighters
ARTICLE
Now, why would Pakistan do that?
Is it possible that there is a goundswell of support for Islamists . . . possibly due to the fact that Bush's explaination for our invasion of an Islamic country does not fly?

is it possible tht our actions are galvanizing Islamic people towards sympathy with Islamists?
just as many of us predicted before the catastro . . . I mean 'war'?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #242 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
But that's besides the point, because my point was that the Constitution was not intended to remove all religion from public life.


Atheism is just as much religion as Agnostism, as is Islam, as is Christianity.

The term "separation of Church and state" is NOTHING other than anti-[Christian in this case] rehtoric---and a construction by the Judicial system to marginalize Christian influence on America.

Nothing more, nothing less.

What the first amedment to the U.S. constitution says is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..........."

Saying that one philosophy is above all others and not a "religion", combined with some abject idocy---the claim that you can separate a person from his/her presuppostions---is nothing more than the natural tendancy for one philosophy to codify itself in the laws of a nation, to the exclusion of all others.

Useful rehtoric, dishonestly applied--as usual.

Also, Thomas Jefferson was a disingenous, philandering, greedy, fop. The conclusion that America was not based on the laws of Christianity, is technically correct, in a Clarkeian--emphasising sort of way.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #243 of 402
That's just plain silly . . . . .


The Constitution is not 'anti-christian' in fact it is possible to see the Constitution dissallows riligion from entering Public Governance in order to allow for Christianity to be practiced without coercion by the Government.

The FFathers were very weary of any possibility that a coercive ideologically driven governement would take hold and start to dictate what people should believe . . . the Constitution is our safe-gaurd against sush an event.

Because of it, we don't have some new-fangled trendy religion sweep the nation and take a hold of the minds of those in Goveernment and have them thereby legislate against free-worship and expression of religion . . .

in that simple way, it is pro-Christian . . . it just also happens to be pro-Muslim, pro-Buddhist, pro-Jewish, and even, yes, Pro-Athiest . . .

It is in your interest as a Christian that our government does not allow Christianity into Public Life.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #244 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Atheism is just as much religion as Agnostism, as is Islam, as is Christianity.

I disagree with this.

Atheism and agnosticism have no rituals, ceremonies, priests or places of worship; they have no prophets, factions, or rites of passage. They don't serve the very useful and practical functions of religion.

Agnosticism, furthermore, is totally free of doctrine since an agnostic doesn't count out the possibility of the existence of any god or gods. The possibility the agnostic entertains might be something to do with Allah, the Christian God, Siva, Obatala or any of the world's many deities- you can be free to be any 'kind' of agnostic you choose and you might as well decide on any possibility that fits your particular spiritual, cultural or personal criteria.

Atheism is arguably not a doctrine either since it's predicated on a world-view that expects explanations based on facts you can actually test.

Now what this has to do with Richard Clarke is totally beyond me.
post #245 of 402
Clarke, testimonies etc . . .

Quote:
The White House has declined to let her appear at the commission's televised hearings, citing the constitutional principle of separation of powers; the panel was created by Congress.

"Condi Rice would be a superb witness. She is anxious to testify. The president would dearly love to have her testify," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told reporters. "But the lawyers have concluded that to do so would alter the balance if we got into the practice of doing that."

HAHAHAHA



...'alter the balance . . " what ever the hell that's supposed to mean . .

'let's not get into that habit . . . its 'unbalanced'!


I wish I had a link to that video of Rumsfeldt caught lying . .

he is a joke . . . a very dangerous and sick joke
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #246 of 402
pfflam:

Quote:
It is in your interest as a Christian that our government does not allow Christianity into Public Life

I disagree. We're not talking about legislating Christianity. We're talking about people being stopped from displaying its symbols. We're also talking about the elimination of non-denominational prayer in the public sector.

This is simply wrong. A town should be able to display a nativity scene, as long as it doesn't ban a Kwanza display as well. If someone is an Atheist attending a High School Graduation where a prayer is said before the ceremony....what's the problem? Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer....voluntarily?

The Constitution does not guarantee one's right not to be offended. No one should be forced to do anything as far as religion is concerned, but what we have now is the repression of the majority.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #247 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
The Constitution does not guarantee one's right not to be offended. No one should be forced to do anything as far as religion is concerned, but what we have now is the repression of the majority.

In the threads about the recent FCC rulings you basically argued the exact opposite of this. That's hypocritical. If the FCC can ban free speech because it's offensive, why can't that be true in this case as well?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #248 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
That's just plain silly . . . . .


The FFathers were very weary of any possibility that a coercive ideologically driven governement would take hold and start to dictate what people should believe . . . the Constitution is our safe-gaurd against sush an event.


It is in your interest as a Christian that our government does not allow Christianity into Public Life.

I don't know about that pfflam, pretty much each one of the American colonies had an "offical" church brand of Christianity, early on. I might have to take that back, but I think that was true even until the time of the Amercian Rebellion.


On Atheism having no rituals, I distinclty remember a friend at work who had a pagan marriage ceremony, performed by a witch, hands tied together with ribbon holding a lit candle, drum circle, the whole bit---pretty surreal.

I also remember seeing the Grateful Dead in the late eightes, I think that might constitute a ritual of some sort.

Atheism as it relates to the inidivdual is necessarily more ridgid that the worst forms of puritaism. I think that is a historical fact.

And what this has to do with Clarke? Looks like I picked a bad week to derail threads.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #249 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
In the threads about the recent FCC rulings you basically argued the exact opposite of this. That's hypocritical. If the FCC can ban free speech because it's offensive, why can't that be true in this case as well?

Oooh burn. SDW, he has you there.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #250 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I don't know about that pfflam, pretty much each one of the American colonies had an "offical" church brand of Christianity, early on. I might have to take that back, but I think that was true even until the time of the Amercian Rebellion.


On Atheism having no rituals, I distinclty remember a friend at work who had a pagan marriage ceremony, performed by a witch, hands tied together with ribbon holding a lit candle, drum circle, the whole bit---pretty surreal.

I also remember seeing the Grateful Dead in the late eightes, I think that might constitute a ritual of some sort.

Atheism as it relates to the inidivdual is necessarily more ridgid that the worst forms of puritaism. I think that is a historical fact.

And what this has to do with Clarke? Looks like I picked a bad week to derail threads.

Pagan != Atheist.

Also, explain what you mean by atheism being more rigid than the worst forms of puritanism. Are you talking about government enforced atheism of the USSR? That's not what anyone is after here so it's ridiculous to even bring that up.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #251 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
pfflam:



I disagree. We're not talking about legislating Christianity. We're talking about people being stopped from displaying its symbols. We're also talking about the elimination of non-denominational prayer in the public sector.

This is simply wrong. A town should be able to display a nativity scene, as long as it doesn't ban a Kwanza display as well. If someone is an Atheist attending a High School Graduation where a prayer is said before the ceremony....what's the problem? Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer....voluntarily?

The Constitution does not guarantee one's right not to be offended. No one should be forced to do anything as far as religion is concerned, but what we have now is the repression of the majority.

No, a 'town' should not be allowed to discriminate through symbolism
If my brand of Christianity finds that nativity scenes are heretical and a total insult to God andI live in that town . . . and especially if I work for the Government of that town, then my freedom from Governmental religious coercion is not being met.

No we're not talking about 'people' being stopped: but we are talking about that secular organ of 'the people' called Government from displaying any religious symbol on its property or displaying any institutional bias towards any form of theological belief
That includes 'non-denominational prayer' . . .

Quote:
[i]Originally posted by SDW2001 [/i]
Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer.

That sounds so innocent and harmless . . . why indeed?
And it misses the suspicion of the founding fathers for any institutionalizing of religion. What harm could it be? Why were they completely AGAINST the mention of G-d on money?
You misunderstand the reason for the Constitution, and then, what's worse, you dress it up in fake 'oppression':
Oh how the majority is being oppressed!!

Give me a break . . . the 'minority' is fighting a constant uphill battle to keep (a specific form of) religion from being forced down their throats on every street corner . . . and to keep their form of worship from being forced to adapt to the symbols and rites of others . . .

and the 'colonies' are not the States!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #252 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Why can't we lead school children is non-denominational prayer....voluntarily?

Why in the world do people need to pray at school? From what I remember, we had a hard enough time fitting all of the lessons into the day, you know, actually learning. And now we have jobs going overseas and something like 1/2 of engineering students now from outside the US because of poor math and science education here. Prayer time would be much better spent actually doing what schools are supposed to do and leaving religion to the churches.

Also, not all religions are suckers to the whole prayer thing (which is really just a knock-off of serious meditation). The last thing I will want for my kids if for them to be put in the situation where they have strong social pressure at school to talk to imaginary people.

In other words, non-denomination prayer is far from universal and bringing it into schools puts unnecessary social pressure on non-christian students, regardless of whether or not it's voluntary.
post #253 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Pagan != Atheist.

Correct, but there is a vacuum that gets filled in one way or another.

Quote:
Also, explain what you mean by atheism being more rigid than the worst forms of puritanism. Are you talking about government enforced atheism of the USSR? That's not what anyone is after here so it's ridiculous to even bring that up.


It's not that "it's what anyone is after" but in the one-many equation for the Atheist, the individual is subsumed into the collective (at the expense of the individual.)

(Resistance is futile)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #254 of 402
So, did anyone see the Rice interview on 60 minutes?
post #255 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Correct, but there is a vacuum that gets filled in one way or another.




It's not that "it's what anyone is after" but in the one-many equation for the Atheist, the individual is subsumed into the collective (at the expense of the individual.)

(Resistance is futile)

utter goobledly gook!!

You have no idea what you are talking about . .

subsumption into a collective?!?! . . what is 'the Body Of Christ' or 'the Church'?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #256 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So, did anyone see the Rice interview on 60 minutes?

Miised it . . .

was it 'pursuassive?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #257 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Miised it . . .

was it 'pursuassive?

Watching a clip and reading it now. So far she basically read off of the "map of Afghanistan rolled out on the table" script that she and McClellan were reading off of earlier in the week.
post #258 of 402
post #259 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Why in the world do people need to pray at school? From what I remember, we had a hard enough time fitting all of the lessons into the day.............jobs going overseas and something like 1/2 of engineering students now from outside the US because of poor math and science education here.



Actually the Christian/home schools have plenty of time for prayer. They seem to be producing a good product as well. Also, a large percentage of American children are beyond the reach of the insidous American public education system, in charter, private, Christian, and home schools. The old-timey latency media, though has determined that these insitituions "do not exist." Even though there are 2 million kids homeschooled in America alone.

As pluralism destroys the functional social core of America it will be those who operate outside these rotting institutions that will save America from itself in the future.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #260 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
utter goobledly gook!!

You have no idea what you are talking about . .

subsumption into a collective?!?! . . what is 'the Body Of Christ' or 'the Church'?


Because of trinitarian doctrine you have subsumption with total participation.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #261 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Because of trinitarian doctrine you have subsumption with total participation.

'resistance is futile'
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #262 of 402
Are we official off topic now?
post #263 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
'resistance is futile'

oh be nice pfflam!


Essentially the one and the many are equally ultimate in trinitarian doctrine. Unitarianism, for instance, has dithered between anarchism and statism. No prototype for a workable model---it accepts either the ultimacy of the individual or the state. (So do most on these threads.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #264 of 402
Drudge is interviewing a WSJ reporter right this minute. Apparently Clarke has donated several thousand to democratic candidiates.

The WSJ reporter doesn't think their are two Clarkes, but three.

Also the Aldridge thing, how Stehpanopholos bulied the media over his book---and how Stehpanopholos is passing Judgement on Rice. Also, the Richard BenVeniste presence on the 9/11 panel is being explored.

Good Stuff.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #265 of 402
Clarke voted for McCain in the Virginia primary in 2000.

Gee after the shit that the Bush administration has put him and the country through I wouldn't be surprised if he did donate money to the Kerry campaign.

But then again on meet the press he said he would not endorse Kerry and that he would never work in government again.

Condi Rice and Cheney are liars.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
post #266 of 402
Your WSJ reporter is obviously spinning (and making money off of a five minute search on opensecrets and google).

What do both Steven Andreasen and Jamie Metzl (the congressional candidates he's referring to) have in common? Both have worked on the NSC. Andreasen looks like he was under Reagan, Bush I and Clinton. Metzl worked under Clinton.

So these guys are his former coworkers.

You know what this reinforces for me? That Clarke is very loyal to his friends.
post #267 of 402
If I remember correctly, he voted for Gore.

(Also the WSJ guy critisied why no one lost their jobs after 9/11.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #268 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
oh be nice pfflam!


Essentially the one and the many are equally ultimate in trinitarian doctrine. Unitarianism, for instance, has dithered between anarchism and statism. No prototype for a workable model---it accepts either the ultimacy of the individual or the state. (So do most on these threads.)

Yes . . only the religious . . . not even . . only those in your religion know the proper balance . .. perhaps then you should institute that proper balance in a form of social organization . . in fact in the organ of social organization known as Government . .hmm? but then what if the government thinks my "Participation" isn't "total" enough . . . sounds like the foundations of a theological "total"itarianism . . .
hence keeping any of it OUT OF GOVERNMENT

And yes, home schooling and private schools probably give beter educations than public school . . . no surpirise there

but why all this mumbo jumbo . . .
and just another thing: it is tyical of a "religious" person to believe that it is only they who know the fine balance between individual and state . . . as if people not Bli . . I mean guided by a "religion" can not think about the balance between self and other . .

and your assumption that anyone who is not a Christian is an Athiest is wrong
I for instance am not an Athiest though my concept of God is so far removed from yours that Athiesm is not entirely wrong . . . just not right either

Now as far as Clarke . . .and Rice:

Ed Bradley really gets into it with her . . at least in print:
Quote:
ED BRADLEY::
But even the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Hugh Shelton, has said that the Bush administration pushed terrorism, and I'm quoting here, farther to the back burner.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE:
I just don't agree. I don't know, Ed, how after - coming into office, inheriting policies that had been in place for at least - three of the eight years of the Clinton administration, we could've done more than to continue those policies while we developed more robust policies.

ED BRADLEY::
After 9/11, Bob Woodward wrote a book in which he had incredible access and interviewed the president of the United States. He quotes President Bush as saying that he didn't feel a sense of urgency about Osama bin Laden. Woodward wrote that bin Laden was not the president's focus or that of his nationally security team. You're saying that the administration says fighting terrorism and al-Qaeda has been a top priority since the beginning.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE:
I'm saying that the administration took seriously the threat - let's talk about what we did.

ED BRADLEY::
But no, I understand-

ED BRADLEY::
But you - you listed

CONDOLEEZZA RICE:
-priority.

ED BRADLEY::
You'd listed the things that you'd done. But here is the perception. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff at that time says you pushed it to the back burner. The former Secretary of the Treasury says it was not a priority. Mr. Clarke says it was not a priority. And at least, according to Bob Woodward, who talked with the president, he is saying that for the president, it wasn't urgent. He didn't have a sense of urgency about al Qaeda. That's the perception here.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #269 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Condi Rice and Cheney are liars.

Thanks for the heads up. Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Rush Limbaugh, my friend Joe from 3rd grade, most police officers, and 98% of politicans are, too. Can we get one if these signs here?

"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #270 of 402
He registered in Virginia to vote in the Republican Primary and voted for McCain. I don't know how he voted in the Election... but if you have a quote of him saying it, I'd like to say it.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
post #271 of 402
And Clarke is not a liar. And that's what's driving Frist and the rest of them nuts.

How dare he be honest!
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
Reply
post #272 of 402
Quote:
Yes . . only the religious . . . not even . . only those in your religion know the proper balance . .

--but there is no separation to balance.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #273 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
If I remember correctly, he voted for Gore.

Where did you get that from. From what I've seen he's only said how he voted in the primary.
Quote:
(Also the WSJ guy critisied why no one lost their jobs after 9/11.)

Good criticism, but is that an subtle way of saying Clarke in particular should have lost his job? You realize that within a couple weeks a major Iraq hawk held his position. In other words, the problem is with the delusions of the admin itself.

Or was it in reference to Cheney's counter-terrorism taskforce that was supposed to stop attacks like 9.11 but never actually met?
post #274 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
--but there is no separation to balance.

Is that supposed to be some sort of mystical-body malarky . . .

try and be coherent . . .

I will do the same . .

. . . individual responsibility exists despite the fact that we are also profoundly related, even at our very core . . . the language through which we relate to the world, interpret the world, ourselves, our identities our essential general meaning that it gets its significance from being shared . . . identity, is general . . . words mean through many variations . . . they pass around like money and only 'mean' because of that. Our individual experiences are enlighteend by inter-subjective generalities.

there is a balance between the experience and life of the individual as it relates to the world and is interpreted through the medium of language . .

Our experiences are ours yet the language through which we speak them is not ours . . . . [it is in this terrain that the Christian notion of 'the word' is profound] Our identities are inter-subjective and yet individual; that is a fine balance and one need not be member of an established religion to understand that . . . and the Constitution is founded on a similar belief as well: responsibility yet civility
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #275 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Where did you get that from. From what I've seen he's only said how he voted in the primary.

I believe that's what he said.

Quote:
Good criticism, but is that an subtle way of saying Clarke in particular should have lost his job? [/B]


It sounded more like guys like Tenet should have been canned---and that the current admin is very lenient to the loyal. (But then that is politics for you)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #276 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
IIt sounded more like guys like Tenet should have been canned---and that the current admin is very lenient to the loyal. (But then that is politics for you)

perhaps it is more like they need the loyal . . .people who get the shiit heaped up on them by the constant passing of the buck!!

makes you wonder about the real credential it takes to get into that administration . . . makes me think about how Powell had seemed to hold different ideas then the admin at some points but now seems dogged into absolute concurrance with anything that is demanded . . . \
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #277 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I believe that's what he said.

I would like to see the quote where Clarke says that, because I can't find it.
Quote:
It sounded more like guys like Tenet should have been canned---and that the current admin is very lenient to the loyal. (But then that is politics for you)

Being loyal is Tenet's entire job.
post #278 of 402
This cartoon is very funny:

Tommorow

to see teh whole thing go to the environmentalist site and put in your (or anybodies e-mail address)

very funy and appropriate
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #279 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Our experiences are ours yet the language through which we speak them is not ours . . . . [it is in this terrain that the Christian notion of 'the word' is profound] Our identities are inter-subjective and yet individual; that is a fine balance and one need not be member of an established religion to understand that . . . and the Constitution is founded on a similar belief as well: responsibility yet civility

Logos---that is the key. In order to have individual beings, yet not lose that individuality in the "One" we have to have an over arching principle that dictates just that. I guess that is a trusim.

responsibility yet civility---you must admit that the idiom of the day at that time was natural law, that laws were "discovered" as a feature of "the law of nature and nature's God'---as a natural unity of the idividual as opposed to the state.

It's getting late---I'm getting close to cut-and-paste mode. More tommorow.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #280 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
This cartoon is very funny:

Tommorow

to see teh whole thing go to the environmentalist site and put in your (or anybodies e-mail address)

very funy and appropriate



That's great.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Richard Clarke