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Bush *jokes* about not finding WMD...

post #1 of 287
Thread Starter 
Tasteless.

Self-deprecating humor is fine. In fact, it's the whole point of the address the President usually gives at the White House Correspondents Dinner. But to joke about the now defunct rationale for invading another country- to joke about the reason for sending in hundreds of thousands of troops, killing nearly 600 of them and wounding thousands, killing thousands of Iraqi civilians- to joke about that is beyond reprehensible.

The President disagrees. (article here

\
post #2 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Tasteless.

Self-deprecating humor is fine. In fact, it's the whole point of the address the President usually gives at the White House Correspondents Dinner. But to joke about the now defunct rationale for invading another country- to joke about the reason for sending in hundreds of thousands of troops, killing nearly 600 of them and wounding thousands, killing thousands of Iraqi civilians- to joke about that is beyond reprehensible.

The President disagrees. (article here

\

Isn't the point of the Correspondants Dinner to poke fun at the year's headlines? Here in Canada we have the Press Gallery Dinner, which is our equivalent. Seems to me to not mention WMDs at the dinner would have been odd, as they featured prominently in the biggest story of the year.
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post #3 of 287
And then you have This

Then you have:

"Pakistan's president pardoned the country's top nuclear scientist Thursday for leaking weapons technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea."

And you have this:
"Musharraf was unapologetic about pardoning Khan, whom he referred to as a "hero" many times in a two-hour news conference at army headquarters Thursday. "Whatever I have done, I have tried to shield him," he said."

Taken from This Link

Where are Bush and Blair on this? Funny they do not demand our "US friendly" partner Pakistan to seize Kahn's home and assets and put him in prison or worse.

Double FREAKING Standards. Bush has no integrity. The war in Iraq was not about WMD. If WMD were the concern Kahn would either be dead or in prison today not keeping his millions and his mansions in Pakistan.

Yes this pisses me off.

Fellowship
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post #4 of 287
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).

Get over it.
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post #5 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
And then you have This

Then you have:

"Pakistan's president pardoned the country's top nuclear scientist Thursday for leaking weapons technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea."

And you have this:
"Musharraf was unapologetic about pardoning Khan, whom he referred to as a "hero" many times in a two-hour news conference at army headquarters Thursday. "Whatever I have done, I have tried to shield him," he said."

Taken from This Link

Where are Bush and Blair on this? Funny they do not demand our "US friendly" partner Pakistan to seize Kahn's home and assets and put him in prison or worse.

Double FREAKING Standards. Bush has no integrity. The war in Iraq was not about WMD. If WMD were the concern Kahn would either be dead or in prison today not keeping his millions and his mansions in Pakistan.

Yes this pisses me off.

Fellowship

Of course it does. Fellowship, I find your flopping on Bush almost hilarious. And who will you vote for? Kerry?
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post #6 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).

Get over it.

I don't hate Bush because he is conservative. I don't hate Bush because he is from Texas. I don't hate Bush because he declares he is "Christian" (true or not).

I am Upset at Bush because what he does is not ringing true with this reasoning behind the Iraq war.

Funny who Bush considers friends of the US and get to fly freely just after 9/11

And funny Bush feels it is ok for Kahn to be pardoned and does nothing to put pressure on this THUG.

Yet we focus on Iraq and create more reasons for terrorists to hate the US.

I don't "Hate Bush" I just don't believe what he says and for good reason.

I think on my own and you should do likewise or one day if not already we will lose our freedom to do anything about it.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #7 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).

Get over it.

I'm still pissed at him over that sandwich he had last week, didn't he see Dave?! doesn't he know how to make a damn sandwich
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post #8 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Of course it does. Fellowship, I find your flopping on Bush almost hilarious. And who will you vote for? Kerry?

Honestly they both make me sick to my stomache.

I may not vote

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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post #9 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Where are Bush and Blair on this? Funny they do not demand our "US friendly" partner Pakistan to seize Kahn's home and assets and put him in prison or worse.

If Pakistan isn't going to extradite him, there is little Bush or Blair could do.

They could "demand" all they want, but the end result is that Musharraf will pardon him anyways. Hell, international pressure didn't stop our President from going to war, so how can we expect that same pressure to work in our favor.

Musharraf isn't exactly known for his integrity either. He took over in a military coup FFS.

Libya is getting rid of it's WMDs anyways and I'm pretty sure the US has a close watch on both North Korea and Iran.
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post #10 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
And funny Bush feels it is ok for Kahn to be pardoned and does nothing to put pressure on this THUG.

Do you even have an official statement from the Administration backing this claim?

How on Earth do you know Bush's personal views on this matter, especially when this happened today?

[edit: typo]
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post #11 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Honestly they both make me sick to my stomache.

I may not vote

Fellowship

Nader
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post #12 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by job
If Pakistan isn't going to extradite him, there is little Bush or Blair could do.

They could "demand" all they want, but the end result is that Musharraf will pardon him anyways. Hell, international pressure didn't stop our President from going to war, so how can we expect that same pressure to work in our favor.

Musharraf isn't exactly known for his integrity either. He took over in a military coup FFS.

Libya is getting rid of it's WMDs anyways and I'm pretty sure the US has a close watch on both North Korea and Iran.

The point is this:

A person that has done what Kahn has done has no business being pardoned PERIOD.

"Strongly worded criticism of Khan's pardon came Thursday from former U.S. chief weapons inspector David Kay.

"I can think of no one who deserves less to be pardoned," Kay said in Washington. He called the disclosures "a wake-up call" and said Khan was "running essentially a Sam's Club" of weapons technology.


Taken from This Link

How I agree with David Kay in this matter. What kind of message do we send when we slap this guy on the wrist?

What kind of integrity do we speak with when we talk about Iraq and WMD when we let this guy make millions off this distribution of WMD technology and parts / materials to enemies of the West and then he is allowed to keep his millions and is pardoned???

Shameless and not only that the world is more dangerous due to this lack of real leadership.

Kahn needs to be put away.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #13 of 287
He's a bit of a frickin' worry your president, isn't he?

I saw the footage of George "being funny" on the news this morning. It was like something out of a British pantomime. I felt like yelling at the TV "LOOK BEHIND YOU GEORGE!"

Don't give up your day job George. No hang on, that's not right. DO give up your day job George. Oh hell now I've confused myself.
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post #14 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by job
Do you even have an official statement from the Administration backing this claim?

How on Earth do you know Bush's personal views on this matter, especially when this happened today?

[edit: typo]

Funny you should ask:

"White House spokesman Scott McClellan sidestepped repeated questions about whether the Bush administration wants Pakistan to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

"President Musharraf provided us assurances that the government of Pakistan was not involved in any kind of proliferation activity," McClellan said."


Taken from This Link

Does that assure you personally? Speaking for myself I have to say not one bit am I assured. Just the opposite.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #15 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
The point is this:

A person that has done what Kahn has done has no business being pardoned PERIOD.

How I agree with David Kay in this matter. What kind of message do we send when we slap this guy on the wrist?

What kind of integrity do we speak with when we talk about Iraq and WMD when we let this guy make millions off this distribution of WMD technology and parts / materials to enemies of the West and then he is allowed to keep his millions and is pardoned???

Shameless and not only that the world is more dangerous due to this lack of real leadership.

Kahn needs to be put away.

Fellowship

Except we arn't the ones "slapping him on the wrist." (See emphasis above.)

If you want to be ticked off at anybody, I'd be mad at Musharraf, not Bush.

It's not as if Bush was the one who pardoned him.

It's an odd way of getting mad at Bush. I find it rather odd that you can get peeved at Bush for not speaking out on the day it happened, yet not say a word about the person who actually pardoned him.

I don't quite see how you can get angry at Bush for the actions of another person.

Anyways, this is probably why I don't get involved in the political threads.
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post #16 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by job
Except we arn't the ones "slapping him on the wrist." (See emphasis above.)

If you want to be ticked off at anybody, I'd be mad at Musharraf, not Bush.

It's not as if Bush was the one who pardoned him.

It's an odd way of getting mad at Bush. I find it rather odd that you can get peeved at Bush for not speaking out on the day it happened, yet not say a word about the person who actually pardoned him.

I don't quite see how you can get angry at Bush for the actions of another person.

Anyways, this is probably why I don't get involved in the political threads.

This did not happen today. The story says thursday but this is old news.

And NO I am upset at Bush because if we can go to Iraq we can target Kahn.

One way or another. Bush has found himself in a corner with his bedfellows in the Middle East and now we bow, wink and pardon the real threats in the world.

Sickening.

Fellowship
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Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #17 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Honestly they both make me sick to my stomache.

I may not vote

Fellowship

Not voting says nothing. If anything, vote for a third party. A write in. Something.

So much of America doesn't vote it's ridiculous, and abstaining means nothing.
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post #18 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Does that assure you personally? Speaking for myself I have to say not one bit am I assured. Just the opposite.

Fellowship

I'd say this might be the reason why Musharraf pardoned him:

Quote:
But Khan is regarded by many of Pakistan's 150 million people as a national hero. Trained in Europe, he founded the program that made Pakistan the Islamic world's first nuclear-armed state in 1998, to rival the military might of its historic enemy and larger neighbor, India.

"From Musharraf's standpoint, it's far preferable to try to draw a line under the issue by accepting Khan's confession, rather than run the political risks of a full-scale investigation and trial," said Gary Samore of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

"They do not want to embarrass him further and make his job more difficult," said Talat Masood, a Pakistani military and political analyst. "Without Musharraf, the whole war on terror would be compromised."

The quote was taken from the link you provided.

We may not like Musharraf's actions, but he is looking out for his political future.

Anyways, I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything. I just thought it was odd that you could get mad at Bush because of what someone else did.

I've found online political discussions to be somewhat of an oxymoron. They arn't discussions, just tennis matches, back and forth, back and forth..and they don't really do much of anything, besides annoy people.
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post #19 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by bauman
Not voting says nothing. If anything, vote for a third party. A write in. Something.

So much of America doesn't vote it's ridiculous, and abstaining means nothing.

Spare a thought for the stayathome voter
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters
A choice of cancer or polio


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post #20 of 287
well, for me personally, I am not suprised that Musharraf only slapped him on the wrist. I understand that we needed an ally over there and so we were willing to let some things slide in Pakistan. But I agree with Fellowship. Bush has made WMD a huge thing and even though this country is our ally (for the time being), something should have been said or done, in public from our President. I'm not saying we need to cut ties with Pakistan or invade them, but this guy was not only selling plans, materials, etc., he even set up a help line in case you couldn't figure it out on your own! Now, in my book, that's a LOT more dangerous than Saddam possibly trying to get a nuclear weapon. This guy was willing to sell to whoever would pay him money...a lot better chance that OBL would get weapons from him than there ever was of him getting it from Saddam. No, we can't punish him. But we could at least pretend to do something.
post #21 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by bauman
So much of America doesn't vote it's ridiculous, and abstaining means nothing.

Well, abstaining might suggest a lack of confidence in our democratic process, but I don't quite think that's what people are going for when they don't vote.

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post #22 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by job
Well, abstaining might suggest a lack of confidence in our democratic process, but I don't quite think that's what people are going for when they don't vote.


Yeah, I meant it to say something more like: "So much of America doesn't vote (due to apathy). Therefore abstaining means nothing."

Many democratic nations have voter turnout requirements. We should do that.
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post #23 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by job


Anyways, I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything. I just thought it was odd that you could get mad at Bush because of what someone else did.


For the last time I will explain this.

Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.

Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.

We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.

Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.

The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #24 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).

Get over it.

You know you're right!

Bush has made so many boo, boos it doesn't really matter any more.

Bush is finished.

And here it is only March!

Well I'm sure a lot more interesting things will come out between now and November as this ball of yarn unravels.


OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
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post #25 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
I don't hate Bush because he is conservative. I don't hate Bush because he is from Texas. I don't hate Bush because he declares he is "Christian" (true or not).

I am Upset at Bush because what he does is not ringing true with this reasoning behind the Iraq war.

Funny who Bush considers friends of the US and get to fly freely just after 9/11

And funny Bush feels it is ok for Kahn to be pardoned and does nothing to put pressure on this THUG.

Yet we focus on Iraq and create more reasons for terrorists to hate the US.

I don't "Hate Bush" I just don't believe what he says and for good reason.

I think on my own and you should do likewise or one day if not already we will lose our freedom to do anything about it.

Fellowship


Amen to that!
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post #26 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Tasteless.

Self-deprecating humor is fine. In fact, it's the whole point of the address the President usually gives at the White House Correspondents Dinner. But to joke about the now defunct rationale for invading another country- to joke about the reason for sending in hundreds of thousands of troops, killing nearly 600 of them and wounding thousands, killing thousands of Iraqi civilians- to joke about that is beyond reprehensible.

The President disagrees. (article here

\

I agree with you on this Shawn

Fellowship
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Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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post #27 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
For the last time I will explain this.

Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.

Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.

We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.

Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.

The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.

Fellowship

The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.

I'll say this one last time...

The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.
post #28 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by X X


I'll say this one last time...

The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.

then why bring WMDs into the mix at all?
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post #29 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
then why bring WMDs into the mix at all?

It was just about the only thing the people of this country would possibly accept as a valid reason to attack. After 9/11 it became pretty easy to get people in this country to worry about another big attack but with WMD. It's pretty well known that Saddam had WMD and had used them on his very own people. That makes it very easy to tie in the fears of another attack on the US and WMD.

If you wanted to come up with a reason to overthrow Saddam, what reason would you give that you could certain would get the majority of the people behind you? I don't think our government could've been honest about it's true reasons to get rid of Saddam and have the backing of the American people and some of its allies.

People are short-sighted. Unless they can see a threat first-hand then it's not really a threat to them. Do you think people would've been supportive of the Clinton administration to destroy all the camps in Afghanistan? I don't simply because at the time all the terrorist attacks were occurring on the other side of the world, away from the comfort of people's living rooms here. 9/11 changed that.

Regards!
post #30 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by X X
The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.

I'll say this one last time...

The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.

Actually there is not one thing that you state here that I disagree with.

Fellows
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post #31 of 287
The real question is, isn't it perverse for a government to try to influence people's opinions, even using the people's own money and resources to do it?

I am not interested in electing people to tell me what to do, by force or by persuasion... they are my representatives and if they do not act like it, I'm not voting for them again.
post #32 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.

Holding Bush accountable for the actions of the President of Pakistan is dumb.

Intentionally meddling in another government's decisions, that could fuel anti-US sentiment in a politically volatile and nuclear-threatened region of the world, would be even more dumb. Even AI's notorious lefties haven't called for Bush to cut ties with Pakistan over this.

Selling weapons to enemies on this scale is an action to be handled quietly by intelligence agencies, like how Israel's Mossad seems to, not in issuing press releases from the White House.

Of all the things to get mad at Bush for, this one doesn't make any sense.
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post #33 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Actually there is not one thing that you state here that disagree with.

Fellows

Whew! I like you Fellowship. You appeared to be getting more angry than I've seen. I think you and I are about the same when it comes to the candidates. I'm not entirely happy with everything Bush has done, and I'm not totally happy with Kerry, either. I just get tired of reading so many comments by people who vehemently dislike Bush that I tend to support him just to try and be a counter-weight.

Regards!
post #34 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
For the last time I will explain this.

Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.

Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.

We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.

Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.

The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.

Fellowship


Pakistan's stance was turned almost completely around by this administration. Better to have them cooperate than not cooperate. That being said, Bush does not control Pakistan completely. He did not 'allow" anything.

As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls.
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post #35 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Holding Bush accountable for the actions of the President of Pakistan is dumb.

Not really. Bush should (because of American interests) have some influence in the "punishment" of a WMD proliferator.

Quote:

Of all the things to get mad at Bush for, this one doesn't make any sense.

Correction: It does not make sense to you.

Fellows
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Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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post #36 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001


As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls.

I respect that. We all have our opinions.

Fellows
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Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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post #37 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
The real question is, isn't it perverse for a government to try to influence people's opinions, even using the people's own money and resources to do it?

I am not interested in electing people to tell me what to do, by force or by persuasion... they are my representatives and if they do not act like it, I'm not voting for them again.

This is more what I was getting at when I asked X_X that question. The way I see it, it's pretty low to bait and switch like that. Politicians do it all the time, people do it all the time, but you still feel cheated when someone does it to you. Well, most of the time at least. It's a dirty tactic if you ask me.

Then when you consider the possibility that bush and administration, lied to get our support, it just makes things even worse.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I think bush lied, I think it's more likely that they had just as much information if not more that saddam had no WMDs*, they just used what information that wasn't necessarily confirmed to start a war. Lying? not really, being entirely honest? not really.


*or that he wouldn't use them if he had them, or that he had no means to use them, though he had the raw materials, or he had them but disbanded or hid them a decade ago and lost them(as absurd as that sounds, it has happened to many nations before re: things that shouldn't be misplaced) or that he used to have them, destroyed them, but still a few were left unchecked for whatever dumb reasons...etc..etc.
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #38 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Not really. Bush should (because of American interests) have some influence in the "punishment" of a WMD proliferator.

Newsflash: America does not own the world. Pakistan is a sovereign state with its own laws.

And why are some European countries right for following public opinion and staying out of the war, but Pakistan is wrong for following its public's opinion and condemning - but not jailing - its "national hero"?

Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
It does not make sense to you.

Darn right.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #39 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Newsflash: America does not own the world.

Darn right.

Wish we'd stop acting like we do \ or that we need to babysit nations that aren't democratic \
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #40 of 287
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Wish we'd stop acting like we do \ or that we need to babysit nations that aren't democratic \

Well that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. How exactly do we stop "acting like we do"?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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