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"This One Is Big" - Page 2

post #41 of 108
exactly, JYD. if you plan to have bad news, you do NOT blab to every press network to be at the keynote on jan. 7th. i think, though, apple's concept of "big" may be optimistically skewed (i mean, everyone on these boards has pretty active imaginations, so just putting out teasers can do a lot of damage). heck, apple even thought blue dalmatian and flower power were good ideas.

so, all in all, apple believes it has the ace up its sleeve (or aces) -- only a week left.
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You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #42 of 108
Remember when Bill Gates recieved a pie in the face???Well,this time it is on ours.Apple Computer,
Inc. has given you a warning.So,break out a towel for Jan.7,2002.You will need it.Your credit card will probably also be needed.This is an emergency situation.Where would computing be without Steve Jobs?Get real.Without Steve at the helm of Apple
Computer,Inc. we are doomed!!!Plus, the incredible
team Apple has.2002 is the year of Apple.Like the the surfers say.. this is the Big One.So, sit back Chill,relax,breath,and get ready!!We will have a smile on our face in 2002.Poor Wintel people.Apple will indeed beat everyones expectations this year.
Happy New...Year!!!God Bless..Peace on Earth.
post #43 of 108
Happy new year everybody. Its two o´clock 2002 here, im pretty drunk and going to bed. This new year is big even for my standards so look forward to it hitting you.

While I am drinking my "no headache tomorrow" cola I´ll post this:

A new iMac/iMac replacement will be a big enough thing for their own hype so they won´t need anything else to check in their front page claim IMO. If one of following things happen they did enough: LCD iMac, G4 iMac or G5 PM. If they do two or three of these things it will be more than promised.
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post #44 of 108
Something seems not right to me about new PowerMacs...

I talked about it in a thread i opened.

Now to add more to this one, after checking the promos on the Apple Store, I noticed they pushed back the end of the "monitor + powermac" rebate to end of january????

What does it mean??? :-/

for me, two things: no new LCD screens and no new PM before february.
post #45 of 108
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000350" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi? ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000350</a>

If this is true, then this is it.

The iMac was revolutionary not for its specifications, but for the way it changed Apple's product line. So no matter how cool the new iMac, PowerMac, PowerBook, or iBook, are, they still won't meet the sort of high expectations Apple is fueling.

With everything Apple's said about the expo up to this addition to their site, they're making it very clear, to me atleast, that it means more than a feature bump, or even new models of current products, I believe we're in for a drastic change in Apple's product "matrix," and quite possibly the fulfillment of Apple's "digital hub" strategy.

Apple isn't going to be able to gain market share by enhancing the products it currently has, no matter how many retail stores they build. They need to create a reason for people to switch. I expect as far as computers go, we'll stay with four models (pro desktop/laptop, consumer desktop/laptop) but a range of digital appliances will be released.

The iPod was the first, likely as a way of testing the waters and starting to gain some revenue from that 13% jump in R&D expenditures last year, as well as serving to build a little anticip...........ation.

But I believe we're about to see much, much more... Exactly what, I don't pretend to know, but I'm sure it will be interesting. None of which will work with Windows PC's, atleast not without third-party intervention.

Why? Well... Apple can't just keep selling more macs to people who already own them, and while I'd bet that the retail stores are helping to increase awareness and are winning some converts, the "digital hub" strategy is what's going to do it for Apple, this is what's going to win people over.

Right now, you can do anything you could possibly want with either a windows PC or a Mac, it just requires a degree of savvy and a multitude of devices, each engineered and built by a dozen different companies, to get it done. If Apple builds a line of clever, effective, digital appliances that combine the capabilities of devices already on the market, into single, simple, beautiful, and reasonably priced devices (the iPod's price is justifiable, the cube's never was), then they will win. Apple won't make single function devices, like scanners, or printers, or maybe even digital cameras, they'll have to have a twist, some extra functionality that makes it unlike any similar, and maybe slightly cheaper device on the market.

For Example, if they make a digital camera, like they did an MP3 player, then it will have mass amounts of storage (5gb drive), in a small, elegant shape, with a super fast computer link (firewire), and the ability to show your pictures (and maybe movies) on any TV, without connecting to your computer first, and when you do connect it to your computer, it will have it's own iApp. Imagine an iPod geared towards video, connect it to any TV to share your iMovies with friends, or record them to VHS, connects via firewire and syncs with iMovie. What else? who knows... but it'll have to be good, so good that they make the masses take interest in what Apple's doing, and since they'll all be engineered by Apple, with matching Apple iSoftware, they'll work flawlessly with any 'supported' (i.e. new) mac, and while there will be copycats on the Windows side, none will have the same level of refinement and integration that Apple is capable of.

In the meantime, these devices will help Apple get current mac owners to spend more of their money at their shiny new local apple store, keeping Apple afloat until enough interest outside the faithful builds, and market share makes its way back to double-digit territory. The extra income might also allow Apple to lower it's 25-27% margins on its computers, further helping sales. With the iPod, the really annoying commercials with the catch phrase "1000 songs in your pocket" have gotten people's attention, and there is anecdotal evidence suggests that it has helped in winning over a few converts, though probably nothing too substantial, just yet. Amass a line of, maybe, half a dozen such devices, and you'll start seeing a real impact.

Is this what Steve has in store for us? I honestly don't know, but if I were a betting man....


ciao,

michael

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: scadboy ]</p>
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post #46 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Rasti-:
<strong>Something seems not right to me about new PowerMacs...

I talked about it in a thread i opened.

Now to add more to this one, after checking the promos on the Apple Store, I noticed they pushed back the end of the "monitor + powermac" rebate to end of january????

What does it mean??? :-/

for me, two things: no new LCD screens and no new PM before february.</strong><hr></blockquote>

nonsense, this is a pretty common apple tactic to get rid of remaining inventory, and also denotes the possibility that any new machines may not be shipping immediately. Aside from that eventuality, most mac dealers, like macmall, mac warehouse, etc, will still have inventory of the previous generation powermacs they'll need to get rid of, and I expect they'll only start piling on more rebates once whatever new hardware is announced.

As far as new lcd's go, I'd rather see lower prices on the current ones.

ciao,

michael
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post #47 of 108
[quote]For Example, if they make a digital camera, like they did an MP3 player, then it will have mass amounts of storage (5gb drive), in a small, elegant shape, with a super fast computer link (firewire), and the ability to show your pictures (and maybe movies) on any TV, without connecting to your computer first, and when you do connect it to your computer, it will have it's own iApp. Imagine an iPod geared towards video, connect it to any TV to share your iMovies with friends, or record them to VHS, connects via firewire and syncs with iMovie. What else? who knows... but it'll have to be good, so good that they make the masses take interest in what Apple's doing, and since they'll all be engineered by Apple, with matching Apple iSoftware, they'll work flawlessly with any 'supported' (i.e. new) mac, and while there will be copycats on the Windows side, none will have the same level of refinement and integration that Apple is capable of.
<hr></blockquote>
Excellent idea!

I think that an "iCamera" wouldn't need a large HD, that's what the iPod is for. Just give the camera enough flash memory for 30-50 photos or so, and then the photos are dumped to the iPod.

This way, Apple sells the camera, AND the iPod. And it all works seamlessly with a Mac, with the new app, iPhoto.

iPhoto will organize photos, do rudimentary editing of photos, and make slideshows. It will be able to burn a slideshow to disc, and then the disc will play on a DVD player, with your photo slideshow.

As for having a slideshow direct from an iCamera or an iPod, this would entail video hardware that would add to the cost of the device, so it's unlikely, but not impossible. It would certainly be a strong selling point, but I think Apple will concentrate on solutions that involve the use of Mac computers.

But I think you nailed the objective of marketing the Mac as a digital hub. Apple is going to release many little digital hub devices, the iPod being the first, that work seamlessly with Macs and can do more than any of their competitors, easier and faster, and they will all require Macs to work. This is the secret weapon for increasing Apple's market share...use Apple's control of the entire widget to their advantage, and do things that Micro$oft and Dell cannot copy, because they do not control the entire widget!

I'm thinking:

Music listening: iPod and iTunes, for the music listener.

Audio recording: New iPod model? Records voice or music at adjustable quality settings, up to 5 GB worth. Use a new iApp to edit the recording, send it to iTunes and rip it into an MP3 for network transfer, or storage. I'm not sure how much demand there is for recording, but certainly vocal recording, for lectures or interviews, would appeal to students and journalists. This wouldn't require a new device, only modification to the iPod, and software development. Apple could buy a shareware audio editor and and Aquafy it (felt tip sound studio? Amadeus?), and if the audio in OS X is half as good as Apple proclaims it to be, then DSPs will be a dime a dozen for it.

Digital video:
Motion: Apple already has this one nailed, iMovie, iDVD, FCP, yadda yadda yadda. They rock.
Still: iPhoto, as described above.
iCamera, or just optimize the iPod, give it an adaptor so USB digital cameras can link to it, and software so that it can load photo images from any digital camera on the market. 5 GBs worth of photos! iPhoto edits, organizes, presents, burns, and does it all easier and faster than anything else on the market.

I can't think of anything else at the moment, but even with these, if Apple does it well, then they have something that no Wintel can ever copy, because Apple controls both the hardware and the software.

Back to the hype topic:

A new iMac alone isn't enough to justify this sort of hype. The new iBook didn't get this sort of hype. The Titanium didn't get this hype. Even the cube didn't get this sort of hype. No, it is more than a single product. I bet we witness a dramatic revision of the entire desktop line.

Powermac G5s.
iMac G4s.

That's what I'm betting on. The G3 is history. I haven't yet determined how IBM's new Sahara fits in, perhaps it's for the iBook? Is Apple the only buyer of IBM's G3s? Could there be another use for the Sahara G3 that doesn't involve Apple?

If Apple sticks a G3 in their new iMac, it will be a grave mistake. Replacing the 13.9" viewable CRT with a 15" viewable LCD is not enough of a change...furthermore the G4 needs wider implementation, a greater user base, for app developers to have an incentive to code for altivec. If iMacs used Altivec, then that would mean millions more software buyers who actually look for the "Altivec accelerated" tag on the box. It's the chicken and egg syndrome...few altivec Macs means few altivec apps, and if Apple waits for more altivec apps before they add it to the iMac, then they will wait for a long-ass time.

Whew..the beers getting to me... long winded post, but hopefully there is some sense to it.

Thanks everyone, for discussing the real issues, for seeing through all the lies of M$ and Apple's fibs. We've got to bitch if there is to be any hope for Apple making computers that don't suck. Right now they're holding on by a thread, it unravels a bit more everytime Intel gives the P4 another 500 MHz speed bump, everytime M$ unveils a new OS with more Mac features. Apple is more than a computer, it's an appreciation of quality, of the finer details in life that make the difference between shoddiness and beauty in a design. Apple's cases may look beautiful to everyone, but only us loyal mac users see the beauty of what makes a Mac special. The elegance of the OS, the beautiful file navigation of OS X, the gorgeous attention to detail one finds in every nook and cranny of the Mac OS (X). When I breeze through a file hierarchy using COlumn view in OS X, think about how many years M$ worked on their own file browser, it always brings me to a chuckle. Even an army of 1000 drones engineering Windows XP couldn't achieve the elegant simplicity of a few hundred engineers putting their love in to OS X.

Apple rocks, and I bitch because I want it to remain that way. The natural state is one of entropy, and Apple is no different. Without constant pressure from use Mac users, Apple would not be what it is today. So to my fellow Mac users (and abusers), I say, thank you! And have a happy new years eve! Drink as much as you can and drive as little as possible.
post #48 of 108
You ought to drink more often JD
post #49 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>I haven't yet determined how IBM's new Sahara fits in, perhaps it's for the iBook? Is Apple the only buyer of IBM's G3s? Could there be another use for the Sahara G3 that doesn't involve Apple?
</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yes, IBM has other G3 customers. They probably sell more G3's to the other customers than they do to Apple. Nintendo alone will probably get more G3's next year than Apple got this year due to the Gekko (a G3 variant) in the GameCube.


Happy New Year.
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post #50 of 108
the one word i have not seen associated yet with the "this one is big" proclimation is the introduction og GigaWire into the Apple product line.

I think whatever GigaWire is (some reports suggest GiagWire and 802.11e are same thing, I think we will be finding out Jan 7 when it is intoduced on the iMac and PowerMacs
post #51 of 108
[quote] Thanks everyone, for discussing the real issues, for seeing through all the lies of M$ and Apple's fibs. We've got to bitch if there is to be any hope for Apple making computers that don't suck. Right now they're holding on by a thread, it unravels a bit more everytime Intel gives the P4 another 500 MHz speed bump, everytime M$ unveils a new OS with more Mac features. Apple is more than a computer, it's an appreciation of quality, of the finer details in life that make the difference between shoddiness and beauty in a design. Apple's cases may look beautiful to everyone, but only us loyal mac users see the beauty of what makes a Mac special. The elegance of the OS, the beautiful file navigation of OS X, the gorgeous attention to detail one finds in every nook and cranny of the Mac OS (X). When I breeze through a file hierarchy using COlumn view in OS X, think about how many years M$ worked on their own file browser, it always brings me to a chuckle. Even an army of 1000 drones engineering Windows XP couldn't achieve the elegant simplicity of a few hundred engineers putting their love in to OS X. <hr></blockquote>

&lt;sniff, sniff&gt; That was beautiful JD &lt;sniff&gt;
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post #52 of 108
Let me preface this by saying that this is just pure speculation on my part. The Apollo is supposed to be a G4 that's smaller, cooler, and draws less power than a "normal" G4, right? What if Apple's planning on this (I'm not sure I wanna even think about even considering if this could actually happen):

iBook: G4 (Apollo)
PowerBook: Dual G4 (Apollo)
iMac: G5
PowerMac Dual G5

That'd certainly qualify as "... big. Even by our standards." Like I said, pure speculation on my part. Oh, BTW, happy New Year :-)
post #53 of 108
If the iMac came out with a G5 I think a lot of people would be fainting in the aisles
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post #54 of 108
[quote] If one of following things happen they did enough: LCD iMac, G4 iMac or G5 PM. If they do two or three of these things it will be more than promised. <hr></blockquote> I disagree. As JYD stated above, Apple hasn't thrown this much attention on any product introduction in recent history; there was no company hype surrounding the first PowerMac G4, TiBook, G4 cube, or 1st/2nd-generation iBook, all of which were exciting products destined to change modern computing and make Apple money. Obviously some did and some didn't but that's for another thread to discuss.

I hope that none of you think a flat-panel iMac with a G4 is revolutionary. I think such a product would be a boon to all of us but G4s have been sold since '99 and flat-panel PCs were around at the same time. Apple should and will stick with their Digital Lifestyle theory; just as Adobe is working to incorporate tools in their products to make their "network publishing" dream come alive, so to will Apple strive to create as many wonderful (albeit expensive) and seamless digital products as they can and, all the while, simultaneously release iApps to integrate these tools within the operating system. This is going to be a big year for Apple but not because of flat-panel iMacs; think diffferent.
post #55 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Whisper:
<strong>Let me preface this by saying that this is just pure speculation on my part. The Apollo is supposed to be a G4 that's smaller, cooler, and draws less power than a "normal" G4, right? What if Apple's planning on this (I'm not sure I wanna even think about even considering if this could actually happen):

iBook: G4 (Apollo)
PowerBook: Dual G4 (Apollo)
iMac: G5
PowerMac Dual G5

That'd certainly qualify as "... big. Even by our standards." Like I said, pure speculation on my part. Oh, BTW, happy New Year :-)</strong><hr></blockquote>

That would be so cool!!!

post #56 of 108
And the new slogan: Count the days. Count the minutes. Count on being blown away.
post #57 of 108
The fact that Apple.com have to advertise the event means that turn out is well below last year and now is not a good time to launch new products (post 9-11). Like I said No new iMac and no G5...

You are all hyping up nothing... That is what Apple want...
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post #58 of 108
Dirty Harry -

Why would Apple generate all this hype and then not deliver anything as you speculate? Would that be good for their stock? Sales? Press?

As for the new iMac, it's about as confirmed as you can get.
post #59 of 108
This is so much fun. Can you imagine Dell trying to hype a new product this way? Who would be excited about a new shade of beige? 1GB instead of 512MB? 30GB HD instead of 10BG?

Just because it is Apple it is exciting. Particularly after the bad PR after MWNY, it is incredible that Apple is hyping this MW. It may not be G5s but something remarkable is about to happen. The delicious part is that with just 6 days to go we have little idea what it is.
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post #60 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Dirty Harry:
<strong>The fact that Apple.com have to advertise the event means that turn out is well below last year and now is not a good time to launch new products (post 9-11). Like I said No new iMac and no G5...

You are all hyping up nothing... That is what Apple want...</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is not a well thought out post. They may "adverstise" it if your theory was correct, but they wouldn't HYPE it like this. They have bever done this before.

It would also be insane not to update the PM and offer redesign on the iMac right now.
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post #61 of 108
Here is what I am hoping to see tomorrow:

5 Days Left Until Macworld San Francisco

"Even the rumor sites are being conservative"



Cobra
post #62 of 108
"5 days left...where else can we use a '5'...?"
post #63 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by macXusr:
<strong>the one word i have not seen associated yet with the "this one is big" proclimation is the introduction og GigaWire into the Apple product line.

I think whatever GigaWire is (some reports suggest GiagWire and 802.11e are same thing, I think we will be finding out Jan 7 when it is intoduced on the iMac and PowerMacs</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think macXuser hit it on the head. Steve is not so excited by new/faster processors like we are. What excites him is whole new capabilities.. Fire wire, DVD R drives, iPod/iTunes integration. these are things he really dug introducing. This is stuff that he can compete, and beat, wintel at.


It's possible that a huge bump in performance accross the Mac line would warrent such hyping on Apple's part, but I don't think Steve would want to give raw perfomance such an important profile. He wants to change the rules of the game so that it's based on actual capabilities competitors don't have.

The only thing we've heard about so far that might fit this bill is gigawire. It's possible he would hype up the whole new iMac form factor, like he did the orignaly imac, but it would have to be as big an advance as the original one was. Maybe a new form factor that scales through the entire Mac line? (doubtful)
post #64 of 108
I think Apple will deliver "big time" at MWSF for the following reasons:

1. Apple must be painfully aware of the buzz about G5, LCD/G4 imac, etc; i.e., they know what people are expecting.

2. I suspect that the combination of buzz and no denial from Apple is suppressing sales of Imacs, PMs, etc.

3. Apple must stem its constant falling behind the price/performance curve.

Given (1) and (2), it would be catastrophic for Apple to super hype MWSF without substance. They would lose credibility in the financial markets (note that aapl has recently done quite well, I think), and they would lose credibility in the consumer marketplace. Remember, "one 'Oh sh*t' is worth a thousand 'Atta boys'".

As others on these forums have far more eloquently stated, G5s and G4 Imacs will arrive on 7 Jan!!

danho
post #65 of 108
Originally posted by cooop:
[quote] I disagree. As JYD stated above, Apple hasn't thrown this much attention on any product introduction in recent history; there was no company hype surrounding the first PowerMac G4,<hr></blockquote>

Not true. For both the iMac- and G4 (or was that the smurf tower?) they replaced their entire website with just a simple banner ("pro, go, whoa").

So the current hype is perfectly in line with the introduction of a new iMac alone.
post #66 of 108
The Apple site is down at the moment.

9:39 am CST
post #67 of 108
Originally posted by Cobra:
[quote]The Apple site is down at the moment.
<hr></blockquote>

nope.
post #68 of 108
Remember the iMac introduction:

something like:

"This is not yesterday's technology. We could have put a 604e in this computer, but we didn't. We think consumers deserve better. The iMac has the same G3 processor as our regular products."

Apple has no problem putting Today's chips in the iMac. It's limited by it's expandability, offering clear lines between consumer and pro users in that way - iMac G5s are possible!
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post #69 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Smircle:
<strong>Originally posted by Cobra:


nope.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep
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post #70 of 108
Down for me too
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post #71 of 108
I think products are more likely the big news more than features. That is, solutions will be the highlight, not the specs. Improved specs in Apple's eyes are nice to talk about, not a big deal in the big pictures. Likewise, I don't think non-Apple-fanatics (like media outlets) would be impressed with big specs if it's not tied together as one larger package. Therefore, I don't think G5s and GigaWire would be the big deal, not by themselves.
post #72 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Rasti-:
<strong>Something seems not right to me about new PowerMacs...

I talked about it in a thread i opened.

Now to add more to this one, after checking the promos on the Apple Store, I noticed they pushed back the end of the "monitor + powermac" rebate to end of january????

What does it mean??? :-/

for me, two things: no new LCD screens and no new PM before february.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Um, this doesn't strike you as a way of disposing of soon-to-be-unwanted G4s, does it?
post #73 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Smircle:
<strong>Originally posted by cooop:

Not true. For both the iMac- and G4 (or was that the smurf tower?) they replaced their entire website with just a simple banner ("pro, go, whoa").

So the current hype is perfectly in line with the introduction of a new iMac alone.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The "pro go whoa" banner marked the introduction of faster powermac G3's, the WallStreet PowerBooks, and the iMac, these products deserved the hype because they marked the end of Apple's byzantine array of consumer and pro products, and marked the beginning of the four-part product matrix.

All a new iMac would represent would be a revision to an existing product, not a complete restructuring of the product line, and, all in all, not very hype worthy.

The original iBook came with alot of hype because it was the last slot in the matrix to be filled in, and also marked the introduction of AirPort. Yet, when the new iBook came out, it took us all by surprise, there had been no hype surrounding the announcement whatsoever, but the product itself was truly a breakthrough in size, features, and price.

The G4 towers came completely out of nowhere at Seybold a couple of Augusts ago, no one was expecting them, and Apple hadn't been hyping the event that much. Same with the PowerBook Titanium G4, Apple said nothing, they just sprung it on us at last year's SF expo.

The iPod got some pretty substantial hype, they never called it "revolutionary," but the word "breakthrough" was bandied about, justifiably, I'd argue. And why? It's just an MP3 player, but perhaps so much more...

So now, two weeks ago Apple moved up the keynote by a day and lenthened it by an hour, and the hype machine started. "The first time in 18 years," "We're working hard to make this the most exciting expo ever," and now "This one is big, even by our standards," and "Count the days, Count the minutes, Count on being blown away." We haven't seen this much hype since The Chip, the Shopping Cart, and the Screwdriver (new processors, apple store, and bto) and Pro Go Whoa.

With this much hype, it's obvious that this is much more than just a feature bump or new models, not to suggest that such revisions aren't necessary or imminent, but this is something that's going to appeal to more than just us fanboys, it's going to have to be, and it's going to be, huge.

ciao,

michael
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post #74 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel:
<strong>"5 days left...where else can we use a '5'...?"
</strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah, how about this on apple.com:
"Gee, 5 days left until MWSF."
post #75 of 108
LOL! Nice one BRussell.
post #76 of 108
Dirty Harry = Troll

Don't bother responding to him. You'll only get him going.
post #77 of 108


this is just awesome
post #78 of 108
Heh. I hereby admit to getting a big, stupid grin on my face when i read that on apple.com

This is fun.

-robo
post #79 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by scadboy:
<strong>

The "pro go whoa" banner marked the introduction of faster powermac G3's, the WallStreet PowerBooks, and the iMac, these products deser...

... but this is something that's going to appeal to more than just us fanboys, it's going to have to be, and it's going to be, huge.

ciao,

michael</strong><hr></blockquote>

Michael, that was a very nice rundown of the past events that have lead us to MWSF02... It sure does put things into perspective... The hype Apple is doing for this event is huge and after reading that rundown I'm now begining to feel that the iMac II will only be a part of the reason. I'm still of the feeling that we WONT see the G5 (even IF I really want it) but I have a strong feeling we will hear about Gigawire (the new firewire) and a bunch more on the digital devices.

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post #80 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>

Disclaimer: This message isn't readable on the PowerMac G5
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why, I can read it just fine
--
The draught is over.
Get ready to fight back for the Mac.
Reply
--
The draught is over.
Get ready to fight back for the Mac.
Reply
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