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post #41 of 78
Just a heads up for people following this thread: the canon digital rebel has dropped to $899 on amazon (including the lens). I'm going to get it once my bankone amazon gift certificates get here....

BTW, if you don't already have one, you should definitely get one of these cards. You get $30 off your first amazon purchase plus $25 amazon g.c's for every $2500 you spend. Amazon purchases get you triple points. So, you'd effectively get this camera with lens for $845 ($30 off plus a $25 gift certificate down the road just from this purchase). Not a bad deal and a great card to have if you use amazon often (like I do).
post #42 of 78
Amazon CC...I'd be all over it if the credits and discounts applied equally to Amazon Affiliates like their apparel shops, Circuit City, Office Depot, Target, etc.
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post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
Amazon CC...I'd be all over it if the credits and discounts applied equally to Amazon Affiliates like their apparel shops, Circuit City, Office Depot, Target, etc.

I agree, it'd be a much better deal. But I tend to avoid the affiliate shops just because most of them charge tax, killing the benefit of buying online anyway... IMHO, it's still a great card. And if you're going to buy something big like computer or camera you'd be foolish not to use it.
post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Ichiban_jay
what does interpolated mean in a digital camera? I saw a digital camer that had a 3.3 megapixel rating, but it takes 6.6 megapixel pictures when interpolated.

Interpolation is increasing the size through a software algorythm ... you'd be better off increasing the size in Photoshop. The "interpolation" in the Fuji mentioned above is quite a bit better than the straight software conversions, do to the shape of the pixels, but interpolation none the less.
post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
Are you saying Microsoft isn't innovative?

It's a perfectly valid comparison. The fact is Canon chooses volume over quality. Look at their Powershot line-up and how frequently they turn-over with new models.

You said that Nikon looks like Apple. Apple is much more innovative than Microsoft. I don't think that Nikon is more innovative than Canon.

For the mass production you are right for the consumer line. For others professional line, the turn over is not that important.
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
Interpolation is increasing the size through a software algorythm ...

Ichiban_jay: I think of interpolation as pixel-doubling (or quadrupling, if you consider surface area). Although interpolation is obviously a bit more sophisticated than pixel-doubling, it makes just as little sense to me when done in-camera.

Escher
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post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
the canon digital rebel has dropped to $899 on amazon (including the lens).

That's quite impressive, torifile, and certainly an excellent investment. My hunch is that the lower price on Amazon is an indication of two things: (1) intense competition from Nikon's D70, and (2) a possible update to the Digital Rebel (maybe just a color change to black ).

It is increasingly clear that my next digital camera will be a true interchangeable lens SLR, not a fixed-lens pseudo-SLR model. I am still not sure whether it will be a Canon or a Nikon. But first I have to upgrade my Mac to handle the larger images anyway...

Escher
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #48 of 78
Well, I just did it. I order the Canon. I know it's not the best dslr but it's close enough. All told, I dropped about $1000 on the camera, cf card and case. I used up some amazon gift certificates to get it that low. Whew!

Now if only I knew how to take some purty pitchers.
post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
Well, I just did it. I order the Canon. I know it's not the best dslr but it's close enough. All told, I dropped about $1000 on the camera, cf card and case. I used up some amazon gift certificates to get it that low. Whew!

Now if only I knew how to take some purty pitchers.

Congrats man : good buy. I enjoy my 10 D, the rebel is nearly the same product : you will take fantastic pictures.
post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Congrats man : good buy. I enjoy my 10 D, the rebel is nearly the same product : you will take fantastic pictures.

Thanks! I got it tonight and I spent too much time playing with it. My fiancee loves it too (and this is good because it's a wedding present from one another to one another). I'm going to go for a walk tomorrow.
post #51 of 78
My D70 came yesterday -- a day early!! But I promised myself not to open it up until after tonight's last organic II test EVER (well, at least there's still the exam, but meh). This is a very classy rig for a "consumer" badged model. The lens comes with its own nice pouch, and it's quite heavy (the lens)! My first AF-S lens!! Yes, it's sad to be excited about such things, but I don't have the cash to drop on lenses over three figures.

I have a couple questions for you people that have been the in the Nikon digital camp for a while (my previous body was a Kodak, so I'm used to Kodak's software that seems *much* better organized and faster - from what I've done so far).

They shipped this thing called "PictureProject" with the D70. It seems ok as far as importing off the CF card. It opens the NEF raw files noticeably faster than the photoshop plugin that shipped with it (this plugin, though, lets you adjust white balance and exposure compensation -- but it's SLOW). This software won't let you export to TIFF, though -- just JPEG. Which may not be too bad, given it's probably better than the camera's JPEG conversion.

But my question: is it worth it just to install Nikon View and Nikon Capture and then buy the full version of Nikon Capture? Is Nikon Capture noticeably faster than Photoshop 7 handling these NEF files, or is it just that my poor PowerBook is choking on them?
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post #52 of 78
Personally I use Image Capture to import my pictures from the card.

Adobe released Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 2.2 for:

Product Description:
The Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in delivers lightning-fast, easy access - within Photoshop - to "raw" image formats in professional and mid-range digital cameras from Canon, Fujifilm, Minolta, Nikon and Olympus. Available as a software add-on that works with Photoshop 7.0.1 software, the Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in allows photographers to directly manipulate the original data captured by a digital camera sensor, producing images with superior tonal range and the maximum amount of detail.

What's new in this version:
Support for the following cameras has been added in this update. For a complete list of supported cameras, please visit the camera raw page.
Canon PowerShot Pro1, EOS-1D MARK II
Kodak DCS Pro 14nx, DCS Pro SLR/n
Konica Minolta
DiMAGE A2
Nikon D70, Coolpix 8700
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom
Sigma SD9, SD10

Product Requirements:
Photoshop CS
post #53 of 78
Nikon View/Editor can do many basic adjustments. The free version of Nikon Capture should be flexible enough for most people's needs. It's pretty damned slow on my Power Mac G4 tower though. The Nikon software produces noticeably better images from the NEFs than the built-in Photoshop CS RAW plugin, but I don't know about the plugin that Nikon ships.

With other cameras, PhaseOne CaptureOne seems to pull more resolution and detail out of raw files than even the Nikon and Canon supplied software. D70 support coming soon.
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post #54 of 78
Yeah, after working with Nikon View and browser/editor, it seems they're pretty decent. I haven't worked with RAW files yet (just JPEG), but it seems quite speedy as far as generating thumbnails, etc. This over 2-megapixel resolution thing is going to take some getting used, to though! It's a different world --- and makes me want a G5 for working with such files in Photoshop extensively.

This is quite a brilliant camera -- I went out to our garden just a few hours ago. We had storms this morning, but this afternoon is turning out to be gorgeous. I realize midday sunlight isn't a fair test for any camera - but right now there were little droplets of rain all over the lilies and the bees and moths were going crazy at the blossoms!

Here's a look....(very small previews -- not really getting the full effect of this camera's resolving capability, but they're fast to deal with). I used my el-cheapo (but excellent) Nikkor 50mm f1.8 for all the shots; I'm not about to uncap the 18-70 until the filter I ordered for it comes in, but I look forward to using it. These are also downsampled to 3.33 megapixels (in-camera), taken in the Adobe RGB colorspace:







(Sepia for kicks -- the post and the new corn stalks growing!)





I was kind of being silly and shot most of these wide open, so the shutter speeds were quite exorbitant. I may have seen some evidence of what people were talking about in terms of strange banding artifacts. However, shooting in RAW instead of JPEG seemed to eliminate them.
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post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
With other cameras, PhaseOne CaptureOne seems to pull more resolution and detail out of raw files than even the Nikon and Canon supplied software. D70 support coming soon.

Holy shit, batman! That program is half the price of my camera! Did I look in the right place? Any other options for RAW files?
post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
Holy shit, batman! That program is half the price of my camera! Did I look in the right place? Any other options for RAW files?

The Pro version is pretty expensive, but the Windows only C1 Rebel is $50 and there's a few other versions that are relatively inexpensive.
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post #57 of 78
I wonder if you guys can help me.....it appears what I thought was an artifact that disappeared in RAW is actually there as well.



edit: a better representation...

Is this dust on the sensor causing such an anomaly? Or is it a bad CCD? I wouldn't be so upset if the problem were just limited to the one spot rather than this line running down almost half the picture. It's not even noticeable in pictures with color to mask it well enough, but with a dark background it's unacceptably obtrusive. I'm not going to clone out this thing on every picture where it might cause a problem if it's a camera defect.

Drat, I really didn't want this to be so. If this is indeed a sensor problem, I wonder what Nikon's policy is?
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post #58 of 78
If you can reproduce that line aberration, I'm pretty sure you'd be able to send it in to Nikon USA for a replacement. Nikon's warranty service is pretty good.
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post #59 of 78
I saw this camera discussed in a stop-motion forum and it looks pretty good. Anyone know anything about it? I've never heard of the brand (Sigma). It has firewire and uses the foveon X3 sensor. I believe it also only saves photos in RAW.

Sigma SD10

Here's a photo taken with it. It looks pretty amazing:
http://www.foveon.net/img/Gallery/ne...Foveon0003.jpg

I'm new to all the good digital cameras... mines an ancient Kodak POS. Is there any reason to choose this one over the Canon or Nikon?
post #60 of 78
Not really. It only accepts Sigma-mount lenses, and it's much more noisy than any of Nikon or Canon's offerings (inc. D-Rebel/D70). There's lots of promise for that kind of sensor, though.
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post #61 of 78
My first closeup with the digital rebel. If you zoom in, you can see the pollen and other detail. I'm amazed with this camera, honestly. It's quite a bit better than my sony crap...



edit: It was taken at about 6:30 in the evening, so it was getting dark out. I'm still working on getting some shots with more color. Maybe this weekend...
post #62 of 78
For those here looking for the cheapest of cheap prices on cameras it is best to read this article first. For some reason the camera business has always attracted ripoff artists:
post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile

edit: It was taken at about 6:30 in the evening, so it was getting dark out. I'm still working on getting some shots with more color. Maybe this weekend...

For an ISO 800 shot, the lack of noise in that photo is pretty nice in the resampled 1200x800 image.

But yeah, olor is definitely something of a weak-point in Canon D-SLRs. As you may have noticed already, they tend to underexpose by almost a full stop when not in bright light. And when they do nail the exposure, the colors are often a tad on the warm side. It's actually even more noticeable on Canon camcorders.

When I rented a D100 in February, the first thing I wanted to test was how well the programmed-auto setting nailed exposure. The second thing I tested was color.

This was the first shot in my color test:


Here's a long exposure test (another strong-point in Nikon hardware):

crop
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post #64 of 78
Well, almost a month later my D70 is finally back from Nikon service (CCD was replaced). I was almost in tears to see that it had shipped and was on its way home!!

Anyhow ---- double checking to be sure that dreaded thing is not on this sensor also, it seems the coast is clear! Check out this gorgeous little crop (things have really begun to grow in our garden -- I mean, it's been a month!):



This is a crop from a JPEG fine 3.33 MP in-camera-downsampled image. Me being curious tried printing it as an 8X10 --- the result is exceptional! I had done images just under 8X10 at 2 megapixels with the DCS620 but couldn't ever squeak out completely clean 8X10s with in-camera JPEGs. This is amazing --- a testament to the quality of the system overall, besides the sensor resolution. BTW, this is on the stock 18-70mm AF-S lens.
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"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments...
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post #65 of 78
Eugene:

You're obviously right into digital photography, so I'll throw this question to you. (Of course I'm happy for others to chime in.)

I'm looking to buy my first digital camera, and I think I should buy one that I can grow into over the next few years. At the top of my list is the Olympus 5060.

Any reservations? Given the kind of camera I'm looking at, are there any others that I ought to short-list (ie similar prices/capabilities etc)?

Thanks!
post #66 of 78
Well, since no one's gotten back to your question yet, you need to evaluate a few things before you choose what kind and the manufacturer of the camera:

Will you want to shoot things indoors well with good exposure and minimal grain? Or will you be mainly outdoors where available-light photography is easier?

Will you ever have the need to make large prints? Do you like the idea of being able to shoot continuously for several seconds at a high rate for active shooting scenarios (sports, kids)?


I don't know if you've already gone over cameras in terms of things like this, but it's a good way to figure what direction you want to proceed in. I wouldn't just stick with one model I heard was good. The man may frustrate some people, but www.kenrockwell.com 's "how-to" section has a very good summation of the differences between classes of cameras. Basically, though, if you want a true, unhindered photographic feel with digital, a digital SLR is the best way to go. If you don't mind being forced to shoot at extremely low ISO sensitivities and tiny sensors and delays, then grab a point and shoot.

It all hinges on what you think you might do with your little gadget.
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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by fred_lj
Well, since no one's gotten back to your question yet, you need to evaluate a few things before you choose what kind and the manufacturer of the camera:

Will you want to shoot things indoors well with good exposure and minimal grain? Or will you be mainly outdoors where available-light photography is easier?

Will you ever have the need to make large prints? Do you like the idea of being able to shoot continuously for several seconds at a high rate for active shooting scenarios (sports, kids)?


I don't know if you've already gone over cameras in terms of things like this, but it's a good way to figure what direction you want to proceed in. I wouldn't just stick with one model I heard was good. The man may frustrate some people, but www.kenrockwell.com 's "how-to" section has a very good summation of the differences between classes of cameras. Basically, though, if you want a true, unhindered photographic feel with digital, a digital SLR is the best way to go. If you don't mind being forced to shoot at extremely low ISO sensitivities and tiny sensors and delays, then grab a point and shoot.

It all hinges on what you think you might do with your little gadget.

Hi Fred,

Thanks for your thoughtful post, and the Ken Rockwell link.

I take Ken's point about speed being a crucial factor, but I can't really spring for a full d-SLR. And I've used an old Kodak 1MP camera that produced better pix than a new 3MP Hewlett Packard....

I'm principally interested in panoramic landscape shots while mountain biking -- the camera should be rugged, not too heavy, have excellent optics, and reasonably fast. I don't ask much!

Wide-angle lenses (let's overlook add-ons at the moment...) have a special appeal because they should reduce the number of pix required to cover a given panorama. And LCD viewfinders that flip around should make for a more durable package.

The Ricoh Caplio GX sounds promising: fast, wide, inexpensive. But some owners have voiced misgivings about image quality. The Canon G5 seems pretty good, but the Oly 5060 comes in at about the same price, goes wider, and seems to be supremely versatile.

So right now I'm more-or-less looking for reasons to *not* go for the Oly.

Oh, and since this is a Mac forum, I should add that native OSX software is a must, but we all knew that, right?
post #68 of 78
Ah, for landscapes and on a bike...no, I wouldn't necessarily drag an SLR along either then. I've never looked at that Olympus model much in-depth, but it seems to be a good overall package. I have also never used the Olympus software for OS X (perhaps someone else can give us their experience with it).

To add a little flavor to the cameras you're looking at, though --- consider also the Nikon Coolpix 5400. It falls in about the same price range and also has a wonderful wide angle (28mm equivalent -- just a little tighter than the Olympus' 27mm equiv.). Nikon stuff seems to be built to last better than most Olympus gear I've handled (which might be important given your shooting environment), but I don't know if things have changed with Olympus cameras since then (about two years).

And another thing slightly in favor of the Nikon is the viewing LCD -- has that great Coolpix trademark tilt and swivel. The Olympus' only rotates up and down 180ยบ, so one cannot twist it in for save storage in the case...of course, this might be a nonissue.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the two models. I would try to find both in some store and see which's "feel" you like better.

Have fun deciding!
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post #69 of 78
[scratches head, cartoonish question marks float above head]

Why didn't I shortlist the 5400? Hmmm....

Thanks for the tip -- it's the obvious base for comparison, really!


Quote:
Originally posted by fred_lj

To add a little flavor to the cameras you're looking at, though --- consider also the Nikon Coolpix 5400.
post #70 of 78
Nikon D70, a great camera for the $. As for Canon 10D even better for the $.
post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by boy_analog
Wide-angle lenses (let's overlook add-ons at the moment...) have a special appeal because they should reduce the number of pix required to cover a given panorama. And LCD viewfinders that flip around should make for a more durable package.

Oh, and since this is a Mac forum, I should add that native OSX software is a must, but we all knew that, right?

Canon Powershot A80
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...ew/index.shtml
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post #72 of 78
Canon will release new digital LSR in september. A 3000 D for 700 $ is on the way. There may be others cameras, but it's uncertain for this ones.

Pentax will also release a cheaper version of his DSLR camera.

If people are interest in DSLR camera, I suggest them to wait for the photokina.
post #73 of 78
Go with a DSLR. I'm a bit of an armature photographer and own a Nikon SLR with slide scanner. I'm still shooting slides and scanning them in with great results. I was recently given a Sony CyberShot 3.2 megapixels digital camera from the folks as we're expecting a little one soon and I must say that I'm disappointed with the digital noise -- this is on a 4x6 print! I'm new to digital, but I think all the point and shoot cameras have problems with digital noise. A friend of mine has the Nikon D70 and I must say I was impressed. I didn't see any digital noise in the file and the print I made (4x6) was great. The DSLRs use a larger CCD sensor which helps in reducing digital noise. So you shouldn't just look at megapixels as a 5MP point and shoot does not equal a 5MP SLR as the sensor's are actually different sizes, plus better optics.
post #74 of 78
I just picked up:

Canon EOS 10D

and:

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM Wide Angle Zoom Lens

Fantastic, unbelievable combo. Stunning quality.

Damn, now I have the L bug.

Going to Thailand next month, can't wait to take some snaps. Have just enough money left for some sunblock.
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post #75 of 78
Great camera. The lens I use the most right now is the 28 -135. I like the wide angle 17 - 40. My next lens will be the 70 - 200 f/2.8 L. You will next need to get a larger compact flash card. Get the largest you can afford now or at least a 512. Have fun it is a great hobby.

reg
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by reg
Great camera. The lens I use the most right now is the 28 -135. I like the wide angle 17 - 40. My next lens will be the 70 - 200 f/2.8 L. You will next need to get a larger compact flash card. Get the largest you can afford now or at least a 512. Have fun it is a great hobby.

reg

1 GB Microdrive Well worth it. (They are up to 4GB now I think).

I almost/should have gotten the 28-135 as it was highly recommended.

I am severely tempted to get the 17-40 but I think I don't need it just yet.

I want all the L's...grrrrr...stupid poverty.
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post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Canon will release new digital LSR in september. A 3000 D for 700 $ is on the way. There may be others cameras, but it's uncertain for this ones.

Pentax will also release a cheaper version of his DSLR camera.

If people are interest in DSLR camera, I suggest them to wait for the photokina.

powerdoc:

I'm thinking about buying a Canon 300D camera. Is this a wild rumor or is this an almost sure thing? I definitely would wait if true.
dixli
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
I want all the L's...grrrrr...stupid poverty.

Hahaha! I know what you're talking about. A pro in my area uses the 1D and 10D almost exclusively now (with a Bronica medium format) and I was talking to him about how the medium format lenses are so expensive. He laughed and said "I thought that, too, until I started buying all these great Canon Ls!"

Those lenses -- wow. I'm a Nikonian, but I admire the collection Canon has. Nikon never seems to get it all right at once (with the exception of a few lenses of late --- finally incorporating vibration reduction and AF-S together). I'll second the desire for the 70-200 f2.8 (AF-S VR on my camp); but I just don't have the bucks to part with now! I'll do with a used 80-200 f2.8 when I can find one!
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