One more iMac G4 revision

I refuse to believe that this will happen. REFUSE!!!

A 3 vs 3 battle in Warcraft III TFT is the most computing intensive job that I have, I really don't mind if the next iMac is a G5 or not, even if it is a G4 iMac, Okay, as long as it can handle the 3 x 3 battle in the Warcraft III TFT with the all the effect settings to high and performs very well(no lagging in a battle of at least 100 units), I will buy one, if the 20"iMac can do that with native screen resolution, great, I will bring the jumbo iMac home.

Truth is we will see an updated iMac very soon. It is now outpaced by all other macs (eMac included) and very expensive in comparison.

Personally, I do not think Apple will dump the 15" model. They need a model between the "expensive" 17" iMac and the "cheap" eMac. Unless the difference in price will be explained with the G5 in all iMac models (I doubt it, though).

Let's put it this way: the longer the wait for a new iMac, the higher the possibility it will go G5.

90nm chips are not ready for prime time according to Apple and IBM. If the PowerMac comes with the new chips at WWDC in June I'd expect that an iMac G5 could be on tap for September. In the meantime modest upgrades of the iMac would seem reasonable by the end of this month. If all had gone well with IBM I think a new form iMac would have come at WWDC, but everything is delayed unfortunately.

i dont see how apple has been disappointing you with updates. i realize we havent seen much this year, but the 'Books are pretty impressive. if you're one of those people that was expecting the G5 Powerbook or something like that, then it's your own fault you were disappointed. you have to have a realistic and business view of all of this.

I was hoping for a $999.00 entry point on the iBook. I still believe that price might happen. I also believe that when the PB goes G5, that the iBooks will all get APE built-in.

I will say it was a surprise to me that they did it in the PB, but when I really think about it it makes total sense. To not have wireless built in and standard these days is silly. People who buy a new laptop of any flavor with out it are being silly.

My one thought on the iBook is that their sales are still strong enough to justify the extra $100. So as it stands now the last iBook bump we will see before G5 or minor tweaks will be G4 1.5 Ghz. Motorola would have to do something majorly good, and IBM would have to flub big time for this not to happen.

I do believe that the next power book will be G5 with new form factor. So lets say MWSF 2005.

If you cant take what the rumor sites post, then dont read them. Because rumors are rumors, not fact!

Read the front article on Spymac right now.. Its just about this whining.. Cant stand it... Grow up people...

Apple currently offers the following PowerMac G5 configurations:

1 x 1.6 Ghz G5
2 x 1.8 Ghz G5
2 x 2.0 Ghz G5

Now, why do you suppose they only offer a single 1.6 Ghz G5 when the 1.6 Ghz part is the most abundant? Could they have been stockpiling these for use in a G5 iMac? We know that IBM has been having problems with the new 970fx at all speeds so it seems likely.

Both the eMac and iMac were declared EOL a few weeks ago or so the rumor goes. Since then the eMac was updated. Question is, how many iMacs are in the pipeline currently?

The current iMacs should be able to handle that easily. I have an 867 PowerMac (with a now pretty crappy 32MB GF2MX gfx card) whose specs are surpassed by the current iMacs, and I have no problems in WC3TFT with any number of folk on BNet. I've played 6 v 6 custom games satisfactorily (ok...slight lagging when people start using starfall and other area effect spells all at once...but if someone uses starfall on you for more than a few seconds, you get whatever you deserve ) So wait a week or so until the iMacs are updated and you'll be happy as a Pandaran Brewmaster. (sorry...geek overload there...)

Personally, I've decided not to upgrade until the PowerBooks go G5, so none of this bothers me one way or the other. I'm still hoping for that before the fall so I can start off the school year with a new toy. But I may have to wait until Xmas and the spring semester.

-DCQ

This IBM problem is getting to be a real debacle.

Its beyond me why they would be having problems getting sub 2 GHZ chips to market for a iMac or a PB.

Its plain sad.

I think IBM needs to stop tooting the horns about future chips and spend that energy on making 90nm 970FX chips.

I agree that the recent hardware updates along with the AWOL rev. B Power Macs make it very clear we're in for one more G4 iMac in the current enclosure. At least this should make some meaningful price drops possible. They could even do a 15" model at $999, but there's no reason to now that a decently spec'd eMac occupies that price point. Here's my prediction:


$1299 17" 1.25GHz G4 Radeon 9200 64MB Combo Drive

$1599 17" 1.5GHz G4 Radeon 9600 64MB Superdrive

$1999 20" 1.5GHz G4 Radeon 9600 128MB Superdrive


Though still significantly behind the Wintel price performance curve, these configurations would nonetheless be a dramatic improvement over the current iMac offerings.

I can understand the G4 chip in the ibooks/powerbooks, but the imac NEEDS a G5 chip @ 1.6G now!.

Of course, what will likely happen is that Apple will put the 1.5G G4 into them and drop the price on them.

On the other hand, bare feats have proven that despite the G5's awsome bus, clock for clock it isnt any faster than a G4?.

Of course the G4 clock is maxed at 1.5G whereas the G5 is well >2G (read G5 is the near future, G4 for now at least).

Seems to me Apple's more likely to drop a G5 into the PowerBook before doing so for the iMac.

Someone correct me if my history is wrong, but didn't we see the G4 TiBook long before the iMac G4?

Powerbook G4 Jan '01

iMac G4 Jan '02

If the iMac does go G5, it will be a break from the longstanding tradition that the iMac follows the PowerBook.

That wouldn't be a bad thing, and it doesn't mean that Apple won't do it. But an induction over previous updates says that we can expect iMacs with 1.33GHz and 1.5GHz G4s soon.

It might also make sense for Apple to hold off using the 970fx in a consumer machine until IBM is drowning in them. Better to stick with a proven design on a proven fab - or, failing that, the G4.

Barefeats did not prove anything. Sure, if you run processes that rely solely on CPU frequency, you would not see much of a difference. Now, try to run heavy floating point calculations moving huge amounts of data, just to keep the bus and the FPU busy; then compare the results between those G4 and G5. And let's leave the memory addressing and 64-bit arithmetic for another discussion and for people more competent than me on the subject.

I've said this before:

I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.

the G5 is the PROcessor and the G4 is (now) the SEMI PROcessor.

the G5 is way too fresh to start making it into the consumer devises already.
I think they can crank up the G4 till at least 1.7/1.8GHz before they'll put a G5 in the iMac.

powerbooks would be a while off too I guess, but it will of course get it sooner than the iMac, because the powerbook is a Pro machine, not a consumer machine. It's not a matter of what apple CAN put into their machines, it's a matter of what they SHOULD put in there (from their marketing perspective).

that said, of course it would be KICK ASS to get a G5 into the iMac, but personally I'd be cheering for the complimentary FORM FACTOR CHANGE it would get along with the G5.

amen, brotha!

(smokey in recognition of the date, not your post, nor my state of mind)

The sad reality is that for Apple to be truely competative at the price that the iMac sells for they really need a 1.8-2Ghz chip today. They could probably get away with a 1.6 G5, but not G4 due to other limitations on the processor like DDR support and FSB speed that hamper the design of the computer to what should be unacceptable levels for Apple to accept in their products.

Interesting thread, interesting ideas...
Here are my predictions on the chip upgrades for this year and forwards.
(not based on stuff from a friend from an uncle from an employee of Apple, but purely based on some very logical thinking)

First of all.. expect some stuff in the next ten days. The first anniversary of the ITMS wont go unnoticed. It's highly likely that we will see a new generation iPod with cues takes from the mini. Also iTunes might receive an update along with a launch of the store in some other parts of the world. (not europe)

But now on to the books and desktops. First off the iMac:
I expect the iMac to be updated on or before WWDC. (may or june)
It will NOT get a G5, but will get the 1.5 G4 chip like some other people have mentioned. There's no way Apple will let the iMac have a G5 chip before the powerbook does. Having said that, expect the G5 iMac with a complete new form factor around MWSF '05 or later in that quarter (depending on powerbook G5 update)

Then the Powermac.. WWDC is very likely for an announcement. I'm still on the fence whetether they do a modest 970fx update with speeds around 2.6 gig tops, or jump directly to 3.0 gigahertz with models shiping later this year (september/oktober)

iBooks.. I think we will see a new enclosure pretty soon. The current one (although very good, rugged and functional) is getting old. Expect an updated iBook around november/december for the holidaybuying season. Expect a return of colors. It will very likely use the same 1.5 G5 chip that the current Powerbook uses. I'm 100 % sure we will see a change in enclosure BEFORE a change from G4 to G5 for the iBook. Remember the current enclosure is about 3 years old now.

PowerBooks.. The G5 will be put in the Powerbook at the end of this year or in the first quarter of 2005.. I think thats pretty much a given. There might be another interim G4 update but thats quite unlikely as Motorola doesnt have any faster generation G4's available and wont have later this year. (might be wrong here.)

So thats about it.. We also might see some kind of anniversary mac this year which will very likely be based on the G5. (probably a 1.6 970fx orso)

After analysing Apple's recent upgrades and all the rumors floating around I think these are reasonable predictions about what we will see from Apple in the future. 8)

Bah... G5 iMac will come before the G5 PowerBook. It will both help sales and make a better name for Apple. 2Ghz G5 iMac here I come!

Imacs are faster... except for a VERY important part... your 1mb l3 cache. My quicksilver 733 (no l3 cache) was creamed by powermac 450's because of that damn l3 cahce. I had a faster bus, better graphics card... but that l3 cache made all the difference. Its a good chance your 867 could keep up with an iMac in some serious # crunching apps.

You mean like the Mac's 20th anniversary went unnoticed?

just watch.. send your browser to apple.com at the end of this month.

Apple needs to get the G5 in the hands of more people and its the processor to truly make OS X shine.

It would be a travesty if Apple waited on putting the G5 in the iMac just so it could be in the PB first.

iMac sales SUCK people.

Hello?

I really hope not. Apple can no longer afford to play their market segmentation games considering their lackluster sales on everything but iBooks. They need G5s everywhere as soon as possible, and I refuse to believe they'd sit on a G5 iMac for months until the G5 PB was ready.

Well I can't be certian of anything with respect to where the 970FX will show up next. I can however speculate

Frist; the desktop lines need dramatic updates across the boards. This is a given form the users perspective but as recent conferences with Apple have shown are now a busnes priority.

Second; it is not likely that the 970FX will ever show up in a portable. By the time they have it's process 100% the chip will be competeing with new hardware from IBM and FreeScale.


The 970FX will end up in new IMacs or their replacement becuase this is where they are needed and I suspect that htis is where the 970 was originally targetted for mass production. The fact that the 970FX did not get a cache size increase nor any other major improvements beyond power management tells me that this is the new low end processor. Unfortunately not low power enough for laptops but just aobut right for iMacs and similar machines.

So if there is much more than a couple of weeks wait for the iMac revs I think it is safe to expect a 970 in them. It is needed simply to generate excitement for the model line and revive sales.

Dave

On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.

Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.


They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.

Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.

I believe that they are coming as soon as May 1st, and yes I believe that a G5 will be in it. Reason being, I believe that the New iMacs will have a 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 G5 or a combination there of. No, 2.0's cause they need to fill the channel with XServes. These G5 chips are the left overs from the production of 2.0's.

There has to be slower 90 nm chips available, it's just the way the process works. So since we can be relatively sure that chips slower than 2.0 exist, we can be sure that Apple needs a product to put them in.

that's just because the Imacs suck.....

has little to do with its bloody processor, the G4 is a great processor for consumers. I wish peeps would stop whinging about it.
I'm still on a 450MHz CRT iMac for my internet and such, running panther with very few complaints about it.
The LCD iMac could just never live up to the impact the original iMac made.
The current iMac is an interesting prototype, and it could have stayed just that.
I wouldn't mind owning one, but I don't WANNA buy one. That's where it's lacking.

iBook ditto.

PLEASE IVE GUY: open your i and bring some colour back into our lives!

cos your i is just not for I anymore

What about the obvious - the iMac enclosure is much bigger and more roomy than that of the powerbook thus cooling is less of an issue if an issue at all.

Well we can always hope for such a screw up. It would not be a surprise to me considering what I've experienced in manufacturing over the years. Atleast as far as the rumoured "glue" issue goes.

What bothers me about the 970FX is the fact that it was released at 2GHz in the XServe and nothing faster. Believe me I've heard all sorts of arguments about that but I still take it as a bad sign.

It is a very big concern to me and probally others. The problem is do you really want to spend your hard earned cash on a machine that has such a awfully out dated compute system? That in a nut shell is what breaks the deal for me. Mac OS/X is not that good that it will cause one to over come the rather shocking price premium.

The killer is there is talk about another rev of the iMac to a faster G4! Does anybody out there think that that sort of rev would impact sales positively? The very people that this machine is targetted at expect fast flexible systems sitting on their desk at home. That is not an iMac.

No, it isn't. It may be adequate for most tasks but by no means is it "great".

I'm not too worried yet. Apple couldn't very well ship the Xserve at 2.5 with the towers still at 2.0; that would immediately kill tower sales until the next revision.

Agreed. The iMac is a terrible value unless you *really* like the form factor. A G4 at 1.5GHz won't change that at all.

Not only is the around two GHz needed to impact the market perception of this machine. It is simply needed to deliver a machine that performs acceptably against the Wintel offerings.

Apple and many others on these boards seem to mis an important concept. Consumers will not spend extra dollars over industry norms unless they believe they are getting a good value. Nothing powered by a G4 represents good value agianst what is available in the i86 world. The G5 is a stark admission to this reality. By the time the iMac is reved to G5 technology it will need to be running at atleast 2GHz to do the things that most consumers expect form their PC's.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. Has anyone looked at the specs for a XServe, people it doesn't compete with the tower at all.

Besides if there was any basis for this argument then could somebody explain why CURRENT tower sales have tanked? Towers will sell and sell well when they are finally priced right for the performance that one gets out of them. It is rather clear that Apple hasn't gotten this right yet. Besides how many are really aware of the XServe and for that matter what a server even does when they are out shopping for a Mac?

If I sound frustrated it is becuase I want Apple to succeed and it doesn't look like things are going in the right direction if the G4 iMac rev rumored is indeed a fact.

It has recently been stated by Apples management team that they have been chasing revenue over market share. While I understand that revenue is important it does look like Apples management team has the same perception of the market place as the Amiga teams. Apple has to come with an agressive plan to increase market share without going broke. To focus only on revenue is foolish and targets the short term at the expense of sustainable growth.