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this is appalling, abuse of Iraqi prisoners

post #1 of 613
Thread Starter 
Abuse of Iraqi Prisoners

picture

more sickening pics

'nuff said

edit; took place in the same prison where SH tortured people, "Saddams torture palace"
post #2 of 613
I saw this on the news.... it's plain disgraceful. I'm extremely disappointed in those troops who did this.
post #3 of 613
Allready a thread
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post #4 of 613
Why not Capital Punishment?
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post #5 of 613
Because that is way too extreme a punishment.

Court martial. Run them out, strip them of every medal or award they have ever earned. Let it be known who they are and what they did.
Convict them of sexual assault and terrorism.

Kill them? No way.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #6 of 613
I thought it was kind of cool how intel would play loud, heavy metal in their cells until they'd crack, but this is not cool.

Anyway, getting courtmartialed is pretty shitty. You end up in jail and have a major stain on your record. It's a fitting punishment.
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post #7 of 613
I've heard that these photos have note been seen in the ME yet.

There will be more trouble when they do - the lines have always been blurred but now we can start to really see it: the mercenaries that were barbarically killed - now this.

We don't need any more of this bs - it's all gone over the top. Like an unfunny Monty Python.

Shouldn't this be merged anyway ?
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post #8 of 613
why is anyone surprised by this?

i just wonder why it took this long for this to come out. i guess this is the way we "win hearts and minds"

but this is only a drop in the bucket, they "confiscated" tons of other pics...

i remember last year when i saw a pic of what i called a "home invasion" of an iraqi family by us troops and they showed a pic of a us soldier and a hancuffed child of about 8 years old and the little boy was on the ground with the soldier's boot on his neck and his face in the dirt. and i thought "did he really need to do that?"

any wonder why they dont want us there?
post #9 of 613
Turns out the US is even using privat contractors for running interogations in Iraq... guardian linky...

This is just sickening.
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post #10 of 613
Quote:
One civilian contractor was accused of raping a young male prisoner but has not been charged because military law has no jurisdiction over him.

What. The. ****?
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post #11 of 613
Quote:
I thought it was kind of cool how intel would play loud, heavy metal in their cells until they'd crack, but this is not cool.

Only in the way that nuclear weapons are (i.e. until you remember that noise, even Sesame St., can still be torture).
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post #12 of 613
Aren't wars fun?

....bloody bastards

What's going on in Fellujah?


"Cry Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war."
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
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post #13 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Because that is way too extreme a punishment.

Court martial. Run them out, strip them of every medal or award they have ever earned. Let it be known who they are and what they did.
Convict them of sexual assault and terrorism.

Kill them? No way.

I disagree. Capital Punishment is supposed to be a great deterrent to other potential offenders. I'm afraid that letting someone out of service during a war isn't a stringent enough penalty. In fact, it might encourage some of those that want out to do more of the same. Hell, it's a free ticket back to civilization.

I say Capital Punishment, as long as the country still wants to use it at all.

EDIT: If they're civilians, then they definitely need something more strict than stripping them of their medals. THey don't get medals. Capital Punishment.
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post #14 of 613
[Edited by Fellowship]

This post violated posting guidelines and if such is done again the author will have a partial or permanent ban. Any questions should be directed to myself via private messages.

Fellowship
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post #15 of 613
this will "play poorly" in the middle east...sexual abuse, especially by american woman against muslim men as is shown in many of the photos, is looked on very very harshly...not to mention placing the men in "homosexual" positions...i think the people of iraq and the middle east are gonna come out highly pissed and aren't going to accept the line of "it is a few and they will be punished"...they will see an american woman humiliating a muslim prisoner, they will see american soldiers abusing muslim prisoners...not gonna be pretty when the papers run the photos

maybe this is why they closed down the paper of the one cleric...perhaps they can keep it out of the other papers but knew they couldn't keep it out of his??

g
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post #16 of 613
Obscene. Stop the excuses.
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #17 of 613
Amnesty International: torture not isolated
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #18 of 613
Horrible, but no surprises here. This kind of stuff happens anywhere prisoners are taken during armed conflict, insurrection, or even protests/demonstrations. If you knew anyone who was in Miami during the anti-WTO protests last year, then they could tell you things that would make anyone's skin crawl. The stuff that went down in Miami Police Dept.'s jail cells (repeated 110v electric shocks with bare-ended cables, sodomy with large objects, homosexual rape, beatings, one kid was even smashed on the head with a hammer, almost killing him etc. etc.) was similar to what we are seeing in the photographs coming out of Baghdad.

What is it about human beings in positions of great power over others that brings out the worst, or least civilized behavior? It seems universal, like some kind of perverted sport, as in what happened in ancient Rome etc. Is there any hope for us as a species?

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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #19 of 613
I'm a little confused by the accused enlisted people's protest that they hadn't received guidance around appropriate procedures, or they hadn't gotten any training in being prison guards, or they hadn't been apprised of the terms of the Geneva Convention.

Is the thinking here that without specific instructions otherwise, the default behavior is to abuse and humiliate prisoners?

It would be one thing if we were talking about substandard cell conditions or lack of access to exercise and fresh air or poor quality meals, because these are the sorts of things that could be chalked up to lack of preparation or understaffing or poor communications. Sins of omission rather than commission.

But these pictures depict specific instances of elaborate humiliation of the sort that require real effort and imagination on the part of the abusers.

Unless the argument is that these tableau were order by superior officers the accused have no excuses whatsoever.
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post #20 of 613
Why everyone is so surprised?

You know what russians did to afghans caught during afghan war (and vice-versa) ...

Or in Vietnam, Korea, or during WWII.


It starts from the kids with guns, thinking they are invincible, doing the right thing, then being confronted with the reality, being afraid of loosing their lives, not knowing if the next person you talk to won't try to kill you.

This is not war when you have 2 armies going to fight it out in an open field and loosers congratulate the winners after the battle.

It's urban/gorilla fighting, you have to watch your back all the time, any chance they got to 'get even' they will take. Do you think soldiers are afraid of killing iraqis? They aren't. They are the enemy who wants to get you.

Do you think people in charge give a sh*t about iraqis?
How can you order use of laser guided bombs in an area when you know there are innocent civilians..? How about helicopter air strikes?
These guys don't want to risk lives of US boys, so they will do it from the air, then send troops to clean up the mess.

It's a war, realize it, conventions do not apply, it looks different for someone releasing press statements from the comfort of their offices, than it is to a soldier on a patrol mission.

Look at the available pictures, look at their faces, most of them are naive kids, or 'tough guys'.

These things happening on a daily basis, realize it.

It takes something like that to make people stick their heads out of their a**es and open their eyes a little.. but there are other awful things taking place right now, most of which we will have no knowledge of or will learn about in many years from now.

Wake up people, welcome to the "iraqi freedom"

What a BS..
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post #21 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by piwozniak
Why everyone is so surprised?...

This was not a battlefield. This was a prison. Not even a prisoner of war camp, but a prison. Murderers, rapists and thieves, yes. But any kind of enemy, no.
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #22 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
This was not a battlefield. This was a prison. Not even a prisoner of war camp, but a prison. Murderers, rapists and thieves, yes. But any kind of enemy, no.

Sure it is a battlefield..

Imagine you being a soldier in Baghdad, your duty is to take care of the inmates, and every day you learn that more and more of your country man are being killed.

Would you feel neutral?

If you have nothing to be afraid of? Wouldn't you abuse your powers?

Give me a break.

That's what war brings out in people.
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What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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post #23 of 613
When U.S. soldiers train to endure various forms of torture, which includes mocking, offensive and dangerous situations, don't forget there are people, fellow U.S. soldiers, doing the mock tortures. (Often people serve both roles in training).

Combined with brutal hazing rituals within the ranks, already notoriously bad, can this instance of apparent Iraqi torture be any surprise?

We're training people to kill and most of them don't kill but are relegated to lighter duty. Already desensitized to torture (giving and receiving) from training and already inured to killing (if only in theory), is it any wonder we have this happen?

I won't argue that torture of Iraqis is systemic, (we'd need far more evidence for that), but more importantly and more accurately that the causes of the dehumanization that can lead to it, at the hands of U.S. troops, is systemic, in the training system.

There needs to be a total overhaul of the training to have tougher psychological testing and training.

This is the "Stanford Prison Experiment" with a global audience. Good people* can and will do horrible things under the right circumstances. We need to not merely punish the people (ir)responsible parties, but also change the things that lead to such situations. A token punishment won't be enough if the system remains untouched.


* "Good people" read: "Everyman". That isn't a defense of these particular people.
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post #24 of 613
More pictures: http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/

Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Quote:
One civilian contractor was accused of raping a young male prisoner but has not been charged because military law has no jurisdiction over him.

What. The. ****?

Such is the problem with contractors
post #25 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
More pictures: http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/

Apparently these pictures showing Iraqi prisoners being paraded naked are a year old. Looks like this might be a tip of an iceberg.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 613
If you are going to write "RAPIST" on a prisoner's ass and then take pictures, can't you at least take the time to do a spellcheck?

"Rapeist"?

The U.S. education system is truly screwed.

Someone please tell me that's not a tattoo. U.S. soldiers tattooing prisoners would make things truly explosive.
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post #27 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Apparently these pictures showing Iraqi prisoners being paraded naked are a year old. Looks like this might be a tip of an iceberg.

hey that's a norwegian article. How did you find it?
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post #28 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by New
hey that's a norwegian article. How did you find it?

You sound like you think we can't get foreign/Norwegian sites here in the U.S.

Norwegian Google links pertaining to Irak

Just add site:.no to your search. Of course it'll help if you use their spellings.

You can search only a given country's domain that way (assuming the are not on .com etc).
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post #29 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
You sound like you think we can't get foreign/Norwegian sites here in the U.S.

Norwegian Google links pertaining to Irak

Just add site:.no to your search. Of course it'll help if you use their spellings.

You can search only a given country's domain that way (assuming the are not on .com etc).

hey, I remember reading the article, I was just impressed by it showing up here so much later. I doubt segovius googled it.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #30 of 613
Who is this little fvcking kid in all the pictures?!

Are we to assume Joe Mercenary (Halliburton Division) brought his little kid to Iraq to aid in "security duties"? He's WAY too young to be in the military, and almost certainly NOT Iraqi, so how the hell did this little douche get into this prison for photo ops?

Obviously soldiers are not allowed to bring relatives into the battle area, so the only logical conclusion is that he's the son of a civlian contractor. Gee, there's certainly no reason to worry about hiring civilian contractors to perform military security duties in Iraq now, is there?



Wait until these pictures get out... talk about taking anti-American hatred to new levels.
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post #31 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Who is this little fvcking kid in all the pictures?!

Are we to assume Joe Mercenary (Halliburton Division) brought his little kid to Iraq to aid in "security duties"? He's WAY too young to be in the military, and almost certainly NOT Iraqi, so how the hell did this little douche get into this prison for photo ops?

Obviously soldiers are not allowed to bring relatives into the battle area, so the only logical conclusion is that he's the son of a civlian contractor. Gee, there's certainly no reason to worry about hiring civilian contractors to perform military security duties in Iraq now, is there?



Wait until these pictures get out... talk about taking anti-American hatred to new levels.

That not a kid. I believe your "he" is a female soldier.
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post #32 of 613
not a kid, a female soldier...

a female american soldier doing that to iraqi men will make many arabs quite unhappy


g

at least she isn't wearing a cross necklace...that would really cause some shit
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post #33 of 613


They'll probably not be too impressed by being pissed on either.
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post #34 of 613
But the propagandists told me only the evildoers do this sort of thing.
post #35 of 613
Quote:
Originaly posted by Giant:
But the propagandists told me only the evildoers do this sort of thing.



Personally, if I was in charge of the the war, I would take every opportunity to demoralize and decimate the population. Makes for a weaker country afterwards and ensures your dominance. None of this pussy-footing. Of course this is also why they don't let me have sharp objects...
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post #36 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Who is this little fvcking kid in all the pictures?!

Quote:
Originally posted by New
That not a kid. I believe your "he" is a female soldier.

Quote:
Originally posted by thegelding
not a kid, a female soldier...


Hello? Can we please read the sources?

The "kid" is Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade which oversees all the U.S. detention centers in Iraq.

So it's worse on many levels, moreso than were it a mere "kid".
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post #37 of 613
post #38 of 613
Sorry, but look at her. She looks like she's 14 year old boy. Honsetly, if he's a she and not only that but old enough to be a Brigadier General, the pictures sure fooled me. WTF... I need a beer.
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post #39 of 613
Various articles (whose views and agenda's are irrelevant) mentioning B.G. Karpinski, all sadly ironic after the latest news.

Looks like a lot of wool pulled over people's eyes:

http://burns.house.gov/html/release.cfm?id=70

Quote:
I rode into Iraq from BIAP to the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) Headquarters with BG Janice Karpinski. General Karpinski, a resident of Hilton Head, Georgia, commands the reserve forces responsible for all prisons in Iraq. She briefed us on conditions in Iraq prisons. The current focus is on the training of Iraq guards to assume responsibility for Iraq prison operations.


http://www.freedom.gov/Bradley/email%20update2.htm

Quote:
We also tour the notorious Abu Gharib prision. General Janice Karpinski leads the tour and indicates that as many as 80,000 Iraqi citizens were executed in this prison. We stand in the torture rooms where people had scrawled last messages on the walls as they awaited execution. We also stand in the execution chamber and actually watch how executions occurred. This is an extremely grisly sight that leaves me speechless. I can only pray for the myriad of souls who lost their lives in this barbaric facility.


http://www.khilafah.com/home/printab...ocumentID=7799

Quote:
As coalition troops conduct raids and make arrests, detainees are placed in makeshift camps and prisons all over Iraq. Gen. Janice Karpinski, whose 800th Military Police Brigade oversees all the detention centers, said there were 3,000-4,000 prisoners in 30 prisons and camps across the country.

(...)

People living and working near Abu Ghraib said they were surprised to learn the coalition would use the same facility to hold Iraqis jailed by Americans.

"They've got people in there now?" asked Ala Hussein, tending a soft drink and fruit stall along the dusty highway that passes the prison. He shook his head as he squinted in the direction of the compound.

Even the top U.S. official in Iraq said the coalition-run detention centers were "completely and utterly unacceptable under any international standards." But at the same time L. Paul Bremer said he was disappointed with a recent human rights report accusing the coalition of violating international laws in its treatment of Iraqi prisoners.


By the way she is pantomiming machine-gunning their genitals. Not sure if anyone picked up on that up or not. (Although perhaps she is merely pointing and giving a thumbs up. She later gives only the thumbs up, so I might be wrong).

Also, the above was merely Googled. I have not read those websites regularly aside from this instance. That's in case any dot connectors want to somehow tie me to a particular site or view.
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post #40 of 613
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox


They'll probably not be too impressed by being pissed on either.

Just so you know...that is a British soldier...can't have the Americans have all the fun...

Sickening..,stupid and...got one word to describe it:

QUAGMIRE
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