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Which is most likely for the next iMac revision... - Page 2

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
I agree, but the average consumer does not [think the iMac design is perfect]. I think it's finally time that Apple stop giving people what the need, and start giving them what they want.

I recently liquidated my business (a store). I had six used Macs for sale including three towers, two old-style iMacs, and one flat panel iMac. Lots of people who came in the store and had never considered a Mac before looked at all of them. Most were only interested in the flat panel iMac. I coulda sold several if I had them.
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by spankalee
You're basically saying you want a Cube, with modern specs and components, but you don't want it to be called the Cube?

I don't get why people are so down on the Cube. It's exactly what everyone in the "headless" iMac crowd is always asking for. A new version based off the the current PowerMac line and priced like the original Cube was at the end of it's run, not the beginning, would be pretty sweet.


Perhaps what we need to go back to and borrow from Jobs' previous computer company -- a neXT cube.

At least for form, not technology. It's smaller than a G5, but bigger than the Cube.
post #43 of 59
Why haven't HP and company taken the shuttle PC mainstream if it's such a hot commodity? Well, maybe it's not a hot commodity, or maybe the parts just cost too much given that the industry is locked in a price war.

The fact that this whole discussion is centered around desktops is quaint, anyway. No matter what hypothetical hardware you stuff in an iMac's dome, I can guarantee that sales would hold steady at best. If they released a headless iMac, I think sales would actually drop. because only the sort of people who like making a huge, piecemeal production out of computer purchases would find it an improvement (on top of that, sales of the low-end G5 would go from meager to nonexistent - but that's not necessarily a bad thing). If Apple released a 15" iBook (yes, at 1024x768) the iMac would practically drop off the map.

Consumers are going to laptops in droves. the iBook is the new iMac. Education isn't demanding AGP slots and easily swappable HDDs. They're demanding iBooks. The eMacs are a #2 choice, and they have the advantage of not having any components that are easily swappable by children.

So where does that leave the iMac? Well, it has to offer something that the iBook doesn't, and can't. And it has to be profitable within a niche, because the day will soon come when the iBook handily outsells the iMac and eMac combined. I think the 20" iMac acknowledges this reality: A monitor that big can only appear on a desktop.

The G5 is another possible option. The only reasons not to include it are heat and cost issues (which might or might not exist), but if it's too hot to put in a laptop, that makes it a great candidate for a desktop that has to compete with a laptop. Even if the average consumer doesn't know from a system bus, faster is better - especially given the way Apple software squeezes their hardware dry.

The basic design is good: Not only is it eminently cool, and possible only in a desktop, but it's the most ergonomic PC in existence - or, to put it another way, it has a world-beating hardware interface to compliment its world-beating software interface. This is crucial, because as far as the end user is concerned, there's only the "interface" - whether it's software or hardware is an artificial technical distinction when you're talking about actual, real-world use. Worsening the hardware interface worsens the interface overall.

The SuperDrive has to be standard. It's only a rare option in iBooks now, and Apple has a clearly-defined, well-marketed niche in place already for a complete, one-stop digital hub PC. Desktop components are cheaper and power is not (as much of) a concern, so load 'em up.

I think an iMac with the 15" and 17" PowerBook screens and the 20" display, a variation on the current design (less expensive to build, perhaps less stark), and not-in-a-laptop internals would be a very solid offering. Prices should stay below $2K, and ideally the bottom-end iMac could scooch down near the $1K mark (it doesn't have to hit it, though, because there's an eMac there). If educational/government pricing got down to $999 that would do nicely.

The iMac would then settle into a fairly high-end niche, but I think that's really where it's most comfortable. From a branding point of view, Apple's flagship consumer desktop really should be an out of the box digital hub with full support for iLife, etc. The mainstream consumer machine, increasingly, will be the iBook, and for the real budget minded there's the eMac rounding out the low end.
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #44 of 59
Although the concept of a G5 Mini is intrigueing, how much different would it be to the SUPER sexy iMac FP?. Even Apple acknowledges that the 'Consumer' desktops are not selling like they were even 4 years ago - the continuing trend is for Laptops for the low-mid range computing needs. The eMac is ok because it satisfy's the really low end, and PMacs satisfy the High-end computing.

Evrything else is in iBook/Powerbook territory. I hope they dont rid of the iMacs and give them a decent price drop, with at least a modest performance hike, but dont expect any growth trends for these types of computers.
post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
That would be me, far as I know. Ask around.

Jerkwad or not, it's an apt description and everyone knows exactly what it means. Why, it's demonstrated here at AI on a half-hourly basis, pretty much.

You seem to be trying to paint anyone who is concearned with the poor specs of apples consumer lineup as being some how deviant-an armchair techfan/nerd who is out of step with the average buyer.Nothing could be farther from the truth.The typical buyer wants the most for his money and has some hard questions Apple has no answer for.Even if they get past the processor issue they would still like to know why only half the hard drive and half the ram of pc's that cost less.Of course the answer is apple wants to maximize its profits at the consumers expense.Look,there is no excuse for this kind of behavior.It hurts the brandname and makes apple look arrogant and greedy.It's the reason Apples market share now hovers somewhere between irrelevant and nonexistance.Most buyers will never get past the spec/price delima that greats them when they look at a mac.At that point it doesnt matter what they can do on osX.The sale is lost.Really,there is not much more to say about this.Apple has a serious problem with reality if they think they can dictate to the market and not get burned.
post #46 of 59
The bigger question is why have iMac sales slowed. Frankly it is not due to industry trend in my opinion. It is more of a question of people having certain expectation as to what a good value is in a PC. Unfortunately the new style iMac was never a good value and value wise has just gotten worst over time.

If Apple where to change the value equation then maybe the iMac would sell. The question is how do they do that without changing the form factor significantly. Some of the features that the iMac needs will not fit in the current housing.

Thanks
Dave



Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
Although the concept of a G5 Mini is intrigueing, how much different would it be to the SUPER sexy iMac FP?. Even Apple acknowledges that the 'Consumer' desktops are not selling like they were even 4 years ago - the continuing trend is for Laptops for the low-mid range computing needs. The eMac is ok because it satisfy's the really low end, and PMacs satisfy the High-end computing.

Evrything else is in iBook/Powerbook territory. I hope they dont rid of the iMacs and give them a decent price drop, with at least a modest performance hike, but dont expect any growth trends for these types of computers.
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
So here's what needs to happen at WWDC next month:

The iMac is publicly and unapologetically retired by Steve himself. "It served its purpose, but now it's time for the next revolution. Four desktops total: two G5 minis and two Power Mac G5s. Something for everyone and every need."

Desktops
1.8GHz 970fx G5 mini 256/80/Superdrive/AGP Radeon 9600 64MB $999
2.0GHz 970fx G5 mini 512/120/Superdrive/AGP Radeon 9800 128MB $1299
Dual 2.5GHz 975 Power Mac G5 512/120/Superdrive/PCIe Radeon x800 128MB $1999
Dual 3.0GHz 975 Power Mac G5 1GB/180/Superdrive/PCIe Radeon x800 256MB $2999 (shipping Aug/Sept)

Displays (all new, all aluminum enclosure)
17" ACD 1440x900 $499
20" ACD 1650x1050 $999
23" ACD 1920x1200 $1499

Something like this:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_1.html

Which is a series of pictures on how a guy molded his Cube into a G5 mini.

theFly

I regurgitate sarcasm

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theFly

I regurgitate sarcasm

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post #48 of 59
Well, now Macrumors believes that the next iMac will have a G5. Either way, it is remarkable that the last few months have been very dry in rumors.
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by TheFly
Something like this:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_1.html

Which is a series of pictures on how a guy molded his Cube into a G5 mini.

Superb effort!
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #50 of 59
Thread Starter 
Many of you believe that a redesign and a G4 update are mutually exclusive. I believe you are overlooking one thing. The iMac G4 has to be redesigned anyway. Fred Anderson practically said so when he acknowledged that the current iMac can't be built in a cost effective way. Therefore, they probably had the new design almost ready at that point. If they had a low power G5 part ready to go, you would have seen it in the 17" PB for $3300. The eMac and the PB say that a G4 is coming. The long wait say that a redesign to make it less expensive is coming. Expect an introduction one or two weeks before WWDC.

Frankly, I have no idea what will happen next.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #51 of 59
Quote:
Secondly, Apple offers some explanation for the poor sales of the flat-panel iMac, unit sales of which were down 20 per cent in the first six months of fiscal 2004, and the eMac.

Apple says, 'Sales of flat panel iMac systems...have been negatively affected by a shift in consumer preference to portable systems and competitor desktop models with price points below $1,000. The company introduced a new version of the eMac in April 2004 with a suggested retail price starting at $799 aimed at the price sensitive customer. Also, the current flat panel iMac and eMac form factors are approximately two years old, which continue to contribute to declining net sales.'

Read between the lines, always a risky practice, and you could surmise that this means there will be a new iMac sooner rather than later.

Macuser.co.uk getting in on the iMac 2 act.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #52 of 59
Quote:
Superb effort!

I'll say!

Just what Apple needs tween the eMac and the PowerMac NOT the iMac 2.

I'd buy one tomorrow if available.

Imagine one of those at 1.8 - 2.4 G5 from £895 - £1195 with dual PowerMacs in the price brackets above say G5 duals 2.4 - 3.0?

PowerMacs sales would double easily. It would be a great switcher box.

Another aside on the iMac 2 and eMac issues. Apple THEMSELVES are admitting the designs are over the hill. If you are a company that drives sales via innovation then surely the designs have to keep coming. Unlike the original iMac, the iMac 2 and eMac designs have remained static.

Remember the original iMac? Bondi Blue at around £1,100. But very quickly afterwards Apple introduced colours and drove the prices below £1K with at least two models under said 1K bracket and a couple above. The iMac had numerous design tweaks like slot loading, 'colour bumps' (this season's colours are...) and seemingly more frequent cpu updates. It's design was also more graceful than the eMac. The iMac even had one model at £595! This is years before Apple got to £545 with the eMac! Laptop convergence or no...desktops still sell in abundance, more so with Apple because their consumer desktops stink where it counts.

UK buyers are price sensitive. At least the eMac is nearly there. But it really should be a 1.6 gig G5 at least.

One thing that kinda saddens me about Apple. When the 'moment' is at hand...they don't go for the jugular. eg. G5 in pro' lines for almost a year! It should have been driven into the consumer desktops this half of 2004! As to the crock of crap about G5s not able to go into consumer Macs... Redesign 'OLD' designs that are less ART and more PRACTICAL. Sony and co. can do it from low priced desktops to powerful (but slightly thicker/heavier) laptops...but Apple seems to go overboard and paint themselves into a corner.

Far better to stick those G5 1.6s into a iMac mini-tower range and leave the bottom end PowerMac single 1.8.

I get the impression from Apple that they really don't know how to do the simple thing when it comes to their consumer desktops. You can't con people. They look at the spec list and price and shake their head. Obviously, the style factor (and 'X') isn't enough amongst numerous other reasons.

Apple talks about innovation but they obviously aren't showing enough innovation to tackle marketshare, address consumer dekstops...give a cheap enough switcher option to Wintel iPod heads.

IF Apple is aware of these problems...why do they have such a massive problem with ramping and execution even with relatively minor speed bumps? 6 months to a year...it seems like Apple is turning the Titannic even on minor updates.

Talk about innovation and compact designs? The Shuttle PCs are cramming ever hotter components into small spaces. And we know how hot those Athlong and Intels are, right?

Sure, they may play the 'down clock' game in actual performance...but who says Apple shouldn't with the G5? Perception is sometimes everything...

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #53 of 59
Quote:
two things (kick ass G5-based iMac and proper marketing)

Agree totally!

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by TheFly
Something like this:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_1.html

Which is a series of pictures on how a guy molded his Cube into a G5 mini.

WOW!
post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally posted by The Fly:
Something like this:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_1.html

Which is a series of pictures on how a guy molded his Cube into a G5 mini.





Ha! I like it!

Damn fine job...


Cheers!

C.
post #56 of 59
That is a very old mod...

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=35270

This one is a bit newer:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=40961

Slot-loading iMac in a custom-designed miniature G5 tower case.

post #57 of 59
I have got a tray loading iMac Rev B. that I am ready to mod, it was a gift from a client that didn't want it any more. It does have a bad logic board hence why she gave it to me, but it had a working 256mb RAM chip I have already put in my Rev C.

Apple wanted $500+ to fix it. So she bought a PC, her nephew spent a day trying to set it up. She called me. I got her up and running.

Also with this Rev B. iMac, I got an Epson 777 printer (barely used but only works in OS 9 for some dumb reason, 10.1.5 doesn't support it), an Imation USB LS-120 that had never been used till I hooked it up for her in January, the five pack of media to go with the drive, an in the box full install of OS 8.5, an Apple pro mouse, a classic game pack of 10 old games that have never been used, a still in the box unopened Mac PCI 2 port USB card, why she had this I will never know, and a $100.00 cash for 2.5 hours of work and 1.5 hours of driving.

Those mods are cool, I hope I can do just as well. I kinda like the 1U rack mount version. But that is too much money for the kit and the only other place I've seen it done wants money for directions. Does anyone have an idea of other websites that might have this kind of information available without charge.
post #58 of 59
Food for thought... The iMac 20" was introduced on November 18. May 18, exactly six months later, is a Tuesday...
post #59 of 59
Get the iMac G5 out, already! ;-)

If it truly has been revised or re-designed and is on hold until the current crop sells down...then clear the inventory channels by putting the old puppies on sale at Costco! (it's been done once before with the original Bondi iMac) The old model wouldn't even need that much of a price drop, and it would also be a good advertisement for Apple products...think of the exposure alone that it would attract! I remember how fast they went the last time...and I head lots of people say..."wow! they have iMacs on sale at Costco!" Perfect exposure/opportunity for potential "switchers". And a GREAT product introduction to keep comsumers Mac-faithful.

Also, I hope the form isn't changed...there can be an update to the materials...maybe even colors again...but keep the arm...nothing even comes close to how unique the current iMac is. The 20" finally offers a beautiful display option for more artistic people and maximum iLife enjoyment, but it is a tad too expensive. Put a G5 in there, and it works for me!

Another Also :-), no need to worry about an iMac G5 sabotaging Powerbook or even iBook sales...they are already run-away successes, and a totally different market. They always continue to do well.

The Desktops are in dire need of a big shake-up. If Apple can boost there sales in this area, it would be the final puzzle piece in a terrific product matrix. Anytime someone who doesn't have as much money to spend and they think they are getting more bang for their buck is sure thing to get sales fired up. The iMac line could really benefit from this.

Leave the dual G5's for the PowerMacs. We all know/hope BIG things will happen before the end of Summer with that (probably at least announced at WWDC, too!) :-)
~iBrian
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~iBrian
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