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What do you think we'll see at WWDC?

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
I think we can all agree that there won't be any Powerbook G5s.

But do you think it's possible that Apple will update Power Macs, LCDs AND unveil an iMac G5?

WWDC is a professional tradeshow, so Powermac G5/LCD updates make perfect sense. A brand new iMac with a G5 processor needs some kind of unveiling. It's too big of a hardware release for a quiet update on Apple's Web site and waiting till Macworld SF would mean no iMac updates for 16 months.

What do you guys think? If we see new PMs, LCDs and iMac G5s at WWDC, the show would be awesome!

But I think I'm expecting too much.
post #2 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by dferigmu
WWDC is a professional tradeshow, so Powermac G5/LCD updates make perfect sense.

First and foremost, WWDC is a developers conference, therefore I would expect product launches that are interesting to developers (G5 architecture last year). Althought Apple did use WWDC keynotes to present consumer stuff, I'd expect Jobs to focus on revised towers, then iPod/iTMS (to show developers that Apple can score in the market place) then move to Tiger and other software rather quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised to see new iMacs and displays unveiled there, but I'd rather expect them as a silent update right after WWDC.
post #3 of 52
As far as G5 iMacs go, they could be announced at WWDC. They may come before WWDC.

As I mentioned in another thread, a (one model) G5 PowerBook could appear at WWDC; a 17-inch model (long shot) to fill the high end of the portable line (at around $3,299). I think updated G5 towers are a lock, as well as those much rumored new displays to go along with the towers. What about a matching keyboard and mouse too?
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post #4 of 52
1.G5 iMac or iMac replacement product.
2.Digital Hub device.

Edit: Also speedbumped PowerMacs, but not at 3Ghz.
post #5 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
As far as G5 iMacs go, they could be announced at WWDC. They may come before WWDC.

This is quite likely. Apple will probably roll out anything that doesn't introduce brand new low-level capabilities in the days leading up to WWDC. That's what they did last year. It's a developer's conference, and developers will not have shelled out $1500 a head in order to hear about the new iMac - unless that machine happens to introduce some cool new tech of interest to developers.

If the next PowerMacs leap to a Power5 derivative, and if that derivative ushers in some cool new feature (dual-core, SMT) then we'll probably see it at WWDC. Even if Jobs has to "pre-announce" it again, like last year.
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post #6 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
This is quite likely. Apple will probably roll out anything that doesn't introduce brand new low-level capabilities in the days leading up to WWDC. That's what they did last year. It's a developer's conference, and developers will not have shelled out $1500 a head in order to hear about the new iMac - unless that machine happens to introduce some cool new tech of interest to developers.

There is one reason I could see Apple pushing a G5 iMac at WWDC. Apple would be showing the developer community that they are serious about this chip and are planning to move as much of the product line to it as possible, unlike the G4 which took 3 years to get into the iMac. I mean the G4 just made it into the iBook a few months ago and for a while there was no real incentive to write Altivec code when the vast majority of Mac couldn't take advantage of it.
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post #7 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
It's a developer's conference, and developers will not have shelled out $1500 a head in order to hear about the new iMac - unless that machine happens to introduce some cool new tech of interest to developers.

I agree with HOM, the fact that the G5 would have migrated so quickly to Apple's consumer desktop would be of tremendous interest to developers. Suddenly the customer base for their G5 optimized code more than doubles.
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post #8 of 52
Hardware

Here I will just list possible updates

imac G5

new design
1.6 1.8 or 2.0 GHz
up to 4gb ram
160 or 250gb harddrives
radeon 9600 pro 64mb
big price drop

Powermac G5
slightly smaller design
single or dual 2.2, dual 2.6 or dual 3.0
all up to 8 gb ram
1 to 4 250gb harddrives

isight update

Powermac G4 (yes, G4)

either

slight change in design
all dual 1.5GHz
200mhz bus
up to 4gb ram
major price drop
or

discontinuation of the G4 and OS9 entirely

emac

slight price drop

powerbook

slight price drop

Software

OS 10.4 tiger
appleworks 7
updates on iapps
some sort of program simalar to direct x for more game compatibility

Thats it.

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post #9 of 52
I think the focus will definitely be on Tiger and a likely substantial XCode update. However, if the event passes without a new PowerMac or iMac there's going to be some sort of serious geek riot.
post #10 of 52
From what I hear the Xcode folks are burning the midnight oil big time to get things ready in time for WWDC.

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post #11 of 52
I also believe WWDC will be geared more towards showcasing Tiger. The only thing I'm fairly sure we'll see is updated PowerMac G5s (~2.5 Ghz). The iMac is due for an update but whether it will show up at the WWDC is anyone's guess. I'm hoping before that as I don't think they're quite ready to move over to a G5. I hope I'm wrong but...

C.
post #12 of 52
I was chatting to an Apple Rep during a trade show and during the conversation he reckoned the G5's would be updated at WWDC. We will see.

Dobby.
post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by tink
From what I hear the Xcode folks are burning the midnight oil big time to get things ready in time for WWDC.

Let's hope so. I'm hoping Xcode 2.0 is a great update. I'm starting my first programming classes this fall and I'd love to use Xcode on a new Mac.
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post #14 of 52
Croquer is saying new PowerMacs at 3.2 ghz!!!

http://croquer.free.fr/
post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by ecume
Croquer is saying new PowerMacs at 3.2 ghz!!!

http://croquer.free.fr/

I'd be VERY suprised if this was true. Personally I don't think that there will be those kinds speeds available 'till late this year in the form of a revised 970(FX) series chip (970GX?), if at all.

I won't cry if they are right though.
post #16 of 52
Because this is a developers presentation I think that the main part will be on Tiger and other development tools that go along with it. I believe that there may be a few "show & tells" (like Expose') but the main interest will be the degree that Tiger will be optimized for the 64 bit chips. It is possible that the install will be 2 CDs - start with a core install and then the installation program will auto-select 32 or 64 bit modules to finish up the installation - leaving a G5 with a very highly optimized OS.

I would also anticipate some rather impressive developer's tools, with a possible stroll on stage of an IBM VP that will talk about what they are releasing to speed things up a bit - both in development & performance.

On the hardware side, IBM's fab problems have delayed the introduction of the 2.2, 2.4 & 2.6 G5s for the PM. They could well be introduced before WWDC if chips quantities are available. The G5 iMac could also be released very soon after an upgraded PM. I don't think that either of these need to be announced at WWDC. The developers want to see the 3 gig introduced, not a 2.something.

If the interim (2.2 - 2.6) PM is announced ASAP there is still a need to announce the 3.0 (or higher) at WWDC, even if they have to state delivery in Sep/Oct. Same with a PB: Announce it with an Oct/Nov delivery time. The reason is that this conference is for developers and it is critical that Apple excite them on what is coming up on the PM line, and (with luck) on the PB line.

As for the iMac, I believe it would be very wise to have it out before WWDC so Steve can not only talk about the commitment to 64 bit chips, but also impress them with the huge backlog of orders.

Displays? I think that this is the last chance for Apple to announce a new range (and better prices) before they loose credibility in this area. This is one area where you can almost put a "sure thing" tag on.

A new iPod? If not before, this this is a good time, but Steve will have to give every paying attendee one free. I expect a larger HD and a color screen this time, with a few additional software features.

Of course, SJ will spend a few minutes at the start of the presentation with some very impressive stats on how things are going - just like last week's 3.3 million sales at TMS.

Much more than that and the keynote speech will have to be stretched an hour.
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post #17 of 52
Powermac G4 will lose "power" in the name and get a letter or a cute word, along with ap extream, speed bump, 8xagp or 3 pci-x slots, whichever is cheaper to make, one optical drive, osx only and an entry price near the $600-$700 mark and dual chip rig out the door for $999, thus a consumer apple without attached display will be availible to the masses at a good price.
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post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by dferigmu
But do you think it's possible that Apple will update Power Macs, LCDs AND unveil an iMac G5?

I think Steve J. would love to put on a show like that. A lot depends on IBM. Surely, new displays are a given.

I'll bet a large chunk of the keynote will be about 10.4 Tiger and then hopefully there will be a couple of hardware announcements.
post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Powermac G4 will lose "power" in the name and get a letter or a cute word, along with ap extream, speed bump, 8xagp or 3 pci-x slots, whichever is cheaper to make, one optical drive, osx only and an entry price near the $600-$700 mark and dual chip rig out the door for $999, thus a consumer apple without attached display will be availible to the masses at a good price.

what are you smoking?
post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Let's hope so. I'm hoping Xcode 2.0 is a great update. I'm starting my first programming classes this fall and I'd love to use Xcode on a new Mac.

XCode 1.2 will be just fine ... actually gcc would be just fine

 

 

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post #21 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by zodiac
Software

appleworks 7...

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post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
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(I'm resigned to the fact that only Heaven can help us now.)

post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
XCode 1.2 will be just fine ... actually gcc would be just fine


...actually Xcode would be nice to learn on. Formats decently. But if he stays with Xcode as he grows, he'll have a good understanding of Obj-C. My first "Intro to C" class did the usual silly little program building. It was a Winders based class, natch, but I bought a couple nice Cocoa books and taught myself Obj-C/Cocoa alongside C.

So, we'd do a little program in C, and I'd write the thing in Cocoa and build a whole app with GUI at the same time. I know the professor would have been impressed if he could run Cocoa apps.

Well, I did make him a QT movie of my applications in action, just for the brownie points. I guess that is the reason I scored tops in the class, even ahead of that working OpenGL programmer in to "get his certificate."
post #24 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by oldmacfan
what are you smoking?

I don't see that happening but it would be a VERY smart move. If Apple updated and slightly redesigned the PM G4 and gave it a new name with a price under $999, I think it would sell really well.

It would be the headless iMac that everyone wants. Question is: then what would happen to the iMac?
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by mooseman
...actually Xcode would be nice to learn on. Formats decently. But if he stays with Xcode as he grows, he'll have a good understanding of Obj-C. My first "Intro to C" class did the usual silly little program building. It was a Winders based class, natch, but I bought a couple nice Cocoa books and taught myself Obj-C/Cocoa alongside C.

So, we'd do a little program in C, and I'd write the thing in Cocoa and build a whole app with GUI at the same time. I know the professor would have been impressed if he could run Cocoa apps.

Well, I did make him a QT movie of my applications in action, just for the brownie points. I guess that is the reason I scored tops in the class, even ahead of that working OpenGL programmer in to "get his certificate."

I'm quite impressed that you took a precedural programming class and were able to learn Obj-c so easily. It has one of the biggest learning curves (with cocoa) out of any other language I've built with. I'm a Software Engineer, so Object Oriented is customary to me... but with most (escpecially computer science majors) OO is not usually mastered.

But yah XCode would be nice to learn on... but he doesn't NEED 2.0 to use it... 1.2 should be just fine.

 

 

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post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by dferigmu
I don't see that happening but it would be a VERY smart move. If Apple updated and slightly redesigned the PM G4 and gave it a new name with a price under $999, I think it would sell really well.

It would be the headless iMac that everyone wants. Question is: then what would happen to the iMac?

The main reason that they held on to this model is to continue to support dual boot for graphic production that is stuck at OS 9 for Quark 4.1 support. Apple would need to keep that support to any upgrade, which would add software development cost. Even with that, based on current offerings even 1.5 Ghz is a joke for a desktop PC.
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I'm quite impressed that you took a precedural programming class and were able to learn Obj-c so easily. It has one of the biggest learning curves (with cocoa) out of any other language I've built with. I'm a Software Engineer, so Object Oriented is customary to me... but with most (escpecially computer science majors) OO is not usually mastered.

But yah XCode would be nice to learn on... but he doesn't NEED 2.0 to use it... 1.2 should be just fine.

That's good to hear emig647. I guess I was just worried about Xcode and Java. I know I could run Eclipse on my PC but I'd rather use a Mac if it works. I find it kind of strange that they want us to start with Java but I guess that's what the bulk of Comp Sci students are asking for. I'm thinking of bypassing C++ entirely for the moment. Would that be ok?
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post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
That's good to hear emig647. I guess I was just worried about Xcode and Java. I know I could run Eclipse on my PC but I'd rather use a Mac if it works. I find it kind of strange that they want us to start with Java but I guess that's what the bulk of Comp Sci students are asking for. I'm thinking of bypassing C++ entirely for the moment. Would that be ok?

DO NOT BYPASS C++... so many Object Oriented languages have so many C++ traits that if you are going to study more than one language know C++ is critical. From pure virtual functions to abstract classes to function overridding. Its really hard to find places to teach all of that though, I was really fortunate. I definitely recommend studying an OO language (java) before a procedural language (c). It doesn't make sense to most but once you master Object Oriented design, it makes procedural a lot easier to build in.

The best advice I can tell you is: Learn UML inside and out. UML is a bunch of software designing protocols. My first UML book was "UML Distilled". Its a really good book. And since you're on a Mac go to versiontracker and look at "ObjectPlant"... its a little complicated until you understand AOMD, DOMD, Use Case / Scenerio's, CRC Cards, etc.

-------------

Back on subject:

I know we're going to see a stronger push for Cocoa at WWDC. I noticed they are going to have a class on using the PerlObjBridge to use perl with the Cocoa API's. That will really benefit a lot of Unix devs. Hopefully perl 6 will work easily with it too.

As far as machinery I'm going for...

PowerMac
Dual 2.0
Dual 2.4 9600xt
Dual 2.8 x800 (or whatever its called)
Dual 2.0 could be discountinued in September and dual 3.0 may become top machine.
I believe they'll sport a redesigned case with 2 opt drives

iMac
1.6-1.8 g5
This will also sport a new redesigned bottom.
I believe this will be announced here to push developers into practicing and using more 64bit libraries.

XCode 2.0
-This will include more Unix libraries. Perhaps CigWin api's (wishful thinking).
-Also migrating design with code with Interface builder will be a lot easier (perhaps closer to what .net does).
-Support for more languages: ppc assembly (has support now but could be better), algorithm coloring (hopefull on this), PHP.

Hopefully its a good show cause I got a scholarship to go there for free, should be interesting... stevey don't let me down!

 

 

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post #29 of 52
Call me crazy but I think the iMac has one more speed bump left in it before it goes to G5. Apple's desktop sales are slipping and it's not because people are waiting for a 64-bit iMac.

For the iMac I see either a small bump and a new feature (maybe a gooseneck or something) or a price drop...or both.

For the G5...well, that's anyone's guess. I'll differ to the group opinions and go with dual 2.8Ghz, but Apple needs to do something to invigorate sales.

Other hardware....I actually think we might see a new iPod. Seriously. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Apple adopts the buttonless iPod Mini wheel on all its iPods, and doing so now might help sway some people who want a mini but don't want to wait.
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post #30 of 52
Again I feel I should caution people not to be too optimistic about the next G5 updates. Though I would love to be proven wrong I can't see Apple refreshing their line to more than 2.4 Ghz. Strictly from a business perspective it makes more sense to have a good (but not too good) refresh and have some breathing room if they have more fab troubles down the line. If IBM is really having a tough going of it, we may only see even a 2.2 Ghz refresh at the WWDC.

I think Steve is just going to take it on the chin on this one. It's not like he has any control over IBM's ability to fab chips at any rate and he knows any negative press will blow over in a month.

C.
post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Grey
Call me crazy but I think the iMac has one more speed bump left in it before it goes to G5. Apple's desktop sales are slipping and it's not because people are waiting for a 64-bit iMac.

For the iMac I see either a small bump and a new feature (maybe a gooseneck or something) or a price drop...or both.

For the G5...well, that's anyone's guess. I'll differ to the group opinions and go with dual 2.8Ghz, but Apple needs to do something to invigorate sales.

Other hardware....I actually think we might see a new iPod. Seriously. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Apple adopts the buttonless iPod Mini wheel on all its iPods, and doing so now might help sway some people who want a mini but don't want to wait.

I totally forgot about the iPod. I completely agree. Color screen or not they need to re-arrange the size of the iPod and change to the buttonless design. Also iPod mini's are available again to the masses. (NOT the rest of the world though)

I also forgot to mention we'll be seeing new Displays.

I think they will be moved to 18/22/24.

I wanted to comment on apple only updating to dual 2.4 or less.

First off IBM announced they had 2.5's running on the 90nm process back in February. (Please don't make me dig up the url again, i've been asked to do this repeatedly and I lose it everytime. Look on other threads for it).

Updating to dual 2.2 is a waste of time (from a business point of view). The demand for such a machine is going to be limited. Why buy a dual 2.2 when you can buy a dual 2 for much cheaper. a 200 mhz update got us by 2 years ago. It won't work any more in the pro machines. I was being a little optimistic with the dual 2.8... but I am extremely confident that the update won't be anything less than dual 2.5ghz.

But in a way I hope you're right. If they are anything below 2.5 than I won't be wasting my money on one (even with my dev discount). I'd rather go out and buy a new YZF 450. Also I won't be a developer any more either. So we'll just have to see what happens. This will seriously determine the path in a fork in my life. Either new G5 with lots of apple developing (new job), or continue racing trying to make ends meet.

But again... this totally relies on IBM... and getting info out of them is like getting blood out of a turnip.

 

 

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post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Concord
Again I feel I should caution people not to be too optimistic about the next G5 updates. Though I would love to be proven wrong I can't see Apple refreshing their line to more than 2.4 Ghz. Strictly from a business perspective it makes more sense to have a good (but not too good) refresh and have some breathing room if they have more fab troubles down the line. If IBM is really having a tough going of it, we may only see even a 2.2 Ghz refresh at the WWDC.

I think Steve is just going to take it on the chin on this one. It's not like he has any control over IBM's ability to fab chips at any rate and he knows any negative press will blow over in a month.

C.

Well, all indications are that IBM is not having a tough go of it any longer. They have been cranking out the 90nm chips for over a month now without problems. The Xserves have been fulfilled (I received mine a couple of weeks ago) and they appear to be at full capacity. They had trouble, they worked out the problems and are now making chips.

I have been running a model on my G5 Xserve for 11 days straight now (using 95-100% of each processor the whole time) without a single heat problem or any other issue.
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by atomicham
Well, all indications are that IBM is not having a tough go of it any longer. They have been cranking out the 90nm chips for over a month now without problems. The Xserves have been fulfilled (I received mine a couple of weeks ago) and they appear to be at full capacity. They had trouble, they worked out the problems and are now making chips.

I have been running a model on my G5 Xserve for 11 days straight now (using 95-100% of each processor the whole time) without a single heat problem or any other issue.

Well thats good news. How do you know they have been producing the 970fx for the last month with no flaws? Any url or is this just word of mouth?

 

 

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post #34 of 52
Quote:
originally posted by emig647:
Updating to dual 2.2 is a waste of time (from a business point of view). The demand for such a machine is going to be limited. Why buy a dual 2.2 when you can buy a dual 2 for much cheaper. a 200 mhz update got us by 2 years ago. It won't work any more in the pro machines.

That was my prediction *if* IBM was still having real trouble ramping up to faster speeds. From several sources I've heard that 2.0 Ghz has been a quite a wall for them to overcome. And if that's all you can do in quantity... that's all you do.
Quote:
I was being a little optimistic with the dual 2.8... but I am extremely confident that the update won't be anything less than dual 2.5ghz.

I've also heard that IBM had produced 2.5 Ghz chips in Feb. but that *may* also mean that they can produce them in the most limited quatities. My feeling is since Apple's PMs all seem to have processors with speeds nicely divisible by 2, I figure 2.4 sounds about right for the next refresh.
Quote:
Originally posted by atomicham:
Well, all indications are that IBM is not having a tough go of it any longer. They have been cranking out the 90nm chips for over a month now without problems. The Xserves have been fulfilled (I received mine a couple of weeks ago) and they appear to be at full capacity. They had trouble, they worked out the problems and are now making chips.

Good news indeed! Where did you hear this btw? All the news I've heard coming out of IBM so far is all the problems they're having migrating to their smaller process.
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Concord
That was my prediction *if* IBM was still having real trouble ramping up to faster speeds. From several sources I've heard that 2.0 Ghz has been a quite a wall for them to overcome. And if that's all you can do in quantity... that's all you do.

But it would be a waste of money to update the powermacs to dual 2.2. I didn't finish my previous point. They would spend all this money to update a whole 200mhz per proc and still have the same design is such a huge waste. Not to mention PISS OFF their developers. If they are going to make such a mild update I guarantee you they would NOT announce it at WWDC. That would seriously be a slap in the face to all their faithful developers.

Quote:
I've also heard that IBM had produced 2.5 Ghz chips in Feb. but that *may* also mean that they can produce them in the most limited quatities. My feeling is since Apple's PMs all seem to have processors with speeds nicely divisible by 2, I figure 2.4 sounds about right for the next refresh.

I still think 2.4 is a little slow to be updating. I think apple would be better off announcing dual 2.5 or dual 2.6 and shipping in august or september. (Remember the IBM blades will be shipping before WWDC with 975 procs.

 

 

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post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
(Remember the IBM blades will be shipping before WWDC with 975 procs.

Where did you here this, IBM is just starting to ship blades with 970's, now they will ship servers with Power5 chips, but not 975's, they don't officially exists yet.
post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by oldmacfan
Where did you here this, IBM is just starting to ship blades with 970's, now they will ship servers with Power5 chips, but not 975's, they don't officially exists yet.

I thought the 975 and the Power5 chip was the same thing?

 

 

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post #38 of 52
The 975 is rumored to be based on the Power5, like the 970 is based on the Power4.
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by atomicham
I have been running a model on my G5 Xserve for 11 days straight now (using 95-100% of each processor the whole time) without a single heat problem or any other issue.

This is an excellent indicator for a small form factor, 970fx based desktop Mac, whether it be AIO or headless.
Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

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Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
Reply
post #40 of 52
Hi Atom

I'm glad you have such high regards for the new FX's. Lets hope that IBM has things squared away for the higher clock rate devices that we are all waiting on.

But that is about rumors what I'd really like from you is more info on your XServe. How does it perform, what type of modeling are you doing on it, eitc & etc. Also a little more technical, are you using this as a compute server and if so how are you managing resources? In other words MPI or something like that involved in your work?

Thanks
Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by atomicham
Well, all indications are that IBM is not having a tough go of it any longer. They have been cranking out the 90nm chips for over a month now without problems. The Xserves have been fulfilled (I received mine a couple of weeks ago) and they appear to be at full capacity. They had trouble, they worked out the problems and are now making chips.

I have been running a model on my G5 Xserve for 11 days straight now (using 95-100% of each processor the whole time) without a single heat problem or any other issue.
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