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WWDC Expectation - Page 2

post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
As you just said, anyone can write a syntax coloring scheme for an application. However, xCode goes much deeper than that. It has Live Linking (I believe that is what they call it), Rapid Compiling, and many other features that scripting languages like PHP and Perl don't have any use for.

Just because those languages don't take advantage of it doesn't mean that they can't integrate them into XCode. I'll reiterate my point of apple pushing perl developers to the Cocoa API... how can they ask this if they don't have an environment (besides pico, vi, emacs, etc) to write their code?

Also I don't believe true ANSI 89 C can take advantage of Live Linking (if thats the name, I know what you're talking about if it isn't).

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #42 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Gosh I must be easy to please because your "basics" look pretty good to me. I think that you are expecting too much. Why not add in a stage demo where Steva Balmer does his monkey dance while Steve Jobs unloads some buckshot into him? I mean, we can always dream.


Agreed, my Basics are perhaps a bit much...The point is that I expect something completely new at WWDC this year, not just an OS/Hardware update. WWDC seems like the right place to introduce a new platform, and it's a critical time for Apple to keep the ITMS momentum going and to continue to push market share.

I see a big opportunity and I believe Apple has the ability to serve it. If not, they really need my help
post #43 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ubertweek
[recently there's been talk of a need for a set-top device to replace bulky and awkward HTPCs]


I guess what I'm getting at is that while I would be first in line to buy one of these Apple living room boxes, Apple would have to market it as "show your iMovies, iPhotos, and iTunes in your living room." - a problem already partially solved by Roku.

You focus too much on the VIDEO portion of the equation, the real focus will be MUSIC. Yes, ROKU, and others have solutions to stream iTunes, but they can't play Protected AAC's, rendering the ITMS a Mac/PC only solitary shopping experience...Apple knows there is an opportunity to get people buying while watching MTV etc.

In fact, just last night my wife and I had one of our "bottle of wine & music nights" and it confirmed my belief that the need is there...I have an old Powerbook that connects to my Home Theater, and my wife (the DJ) spent most of the evening standing up at the Enteratinment center queuing up Music, searching for and buying new stuff etc.; it would've been much easier and nicer to have a remote in hand and to use my 50" TV to do those things.

As for Video, don't forget that Netflix and others plan on offering downloadable films soon, and Apple has invested heavily in Pixlet and other quality-keeping compression schemes. There may be room for an ITMovie Store soon.
post #44 of 84
If there was just an iMac G4 update, it would have already happened.

Wee.
post #45 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by msantti
If there was just an iMac G4 update, it would have already happened.

Wee.

Agreed 100%... it would have happened along side the eMac, nice and quietly.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #46 of 84
I personally think something big will come from WWDC. Why do I say that you ask?

Because Apple called me, someone with just an online (free) student ADC developer account, to see if I was going to WWDC this year. This is the first time ever that I've received a call from Apple. I think they're trying to get as large a crowd as possible to unveil something.

Either that or they just aren't getting people to sign up and go to WWDC *shrug*.
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
I personally think something big will come from WWDC. Why do I say that you ask?

Because Apple called me, someone with just an online (free) student ADC developer account, to see if I was going to WWDC this year. This is the first time ever that I've received a call from Apple. I think they're trying to get as large a crowd as possible to unveil something.

Either that or they just aren't getting people to sign up and go to WWDC *shrug*.

From what I've heard, they already have more people signed up than they had signed up at this time last year. Of course many will sign up the day of, etc.

I think last year was a big one and showed developers that apple is very serious. I have a feeling this one is going to be HUGE. If it isn't then 2004 will be an extremely weak year for apple. After the MWSF disaster I really hope apple has something to show the world. Otherwise, there is always next year for big announcements.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Sport73
You focus too much on the VIDEO portion of the equation, the real focus will be MUSIC. Yes, ROKU, and others have solutions to stream iTunes, but they can't play Protected AAC's, rendering the ITMS a Mac/PC only solitary shopping experience...Apple knows there is an opportunity to get people buying while watching MTV etc.

In fact, just last night my wife and I had one of our "bottle of wine & music nights" and it confirmed my belief that the need is there...I have an old Powerbook that connects to my Home Theater, and my wife (the DJ) spent most of the evening standing up at the Enteratinment center queuing up Music, searching for and buying new stuff etc.; it would've been much easier and nicer to have a remote in hand and to use my 50" TV to do those things.

As for Video, don't forget that Netflix and others plan on offering downloadable films soon, and Apple has invested heavily in Pixlet and other quality-keeping compression schemes. There may be room for an ITMovie Store soon.

This hole movie download thing is big bandwidth, and takes extremely long times for downloads. It's way too early to call even if Netflix says they are thinking of trying it. I personally don't think it's going to get that big just because of the time it takes to get a movie at 400K download is an eternity in comparison to the alternative method already being used today. I think Apple will watch it closely, but to jump right into this is a little fool hearty.
Ask your self this. - If you had not seen ROTK would you sit, and download 6GB's of movie file for over a 3 to 4 hour period (maybe more), or just stop off after work at the video store. (you'll get a better quality picture from the DVD anyway.)

There are other things to take into consideration.
I've heard that there is a proposed plan to start broadcasting HD digital films directly into theaters through satellite, and if it can be regulated they will offer a similar pay service to the home. Personally I think if Apple gets into alternate cable solutions they should think about something along the lines of this service rather than the direct downloading. Downloading video seems like dead end in comparison. Don't forget Apple is a hardware company. They could design a really cool box for such a service, and easily integrate iTMS with the home user using a wi-fi system, ethernet, firewire, whatever. It would also remain cross-platform which is a must for Apple to enter into such a venture.

Needless to say. I'm not sold on the hole movie downloading thing knowing that there are other technological advancements, and a slew of proposals coming around the corner that will just drowned it out knowing time, and quality comparisons will probably kill it off in heartbeat.
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post #49 of 84
Onlooker I agree. And considering how cool Comcasts Video on Demand system is and how people are jazzed about it I'm not sure netflix is going to be able to make waves here.

AVC is going to be able to take a typical DVD of 9GB and compress it down to probably 400-600MB but that's still a hefty bit of bandwidth to toss around. Dunno if my ISP is going to be too keen on that.
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post #50 of 84
Downloading movies is DEFINITELY not going to happen any time soon. You know the US is 5th in the world for adopting broadband? We are still around 40% of the US internet subscribers using broadband. 39% of that are DSL subscribers. DSL 2 is still only around in a few areas... so most of these broadband users download around 768kbit or 1500kbit. Maybe when we are up to 4-6mbit all over the place then maybe download 400-600 mb movie will be ok. The cost in resources to pipe out that much bandwidth is going to be a HUGE chunk of cash. Its a lot cheaper for EVERYONE to walk to blockbuster and rent or buy the movie.

 

 

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post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Sport73
As for Video, don't forget that Netflix and others plan on offering downloadable films soon, and Apple has invested heavily in Pixlet and other quality-keeping compression schemes. There may be room for an ITMovie Store soon.

Good lord, do you have any idea what kind of bandwidth we're talking about for Pixlet? 25MB/s... 1500MB/min... 63GB/hr! I don't know about you, but I'm not up for a 180GB LotR download.

<This message approved by the local 5th grade grammar teacher>
post #52 of 84
WWDC 2004 will bring:
-upgraded g5s (it's almost been a year already....it's time for an upgrade...this isnt a 'maybe' situation)
-updated Apple displays to match the Powermacs
-upgraded iPods..... the video out option would be absolutely amazing....along with the ability to use it with the iSight to record DV video would be awesome. (not sure if the processing power in the iPods can handle this sort of thing, but im sure the interface(FireWire) can handle the transfer rates.
-Tiger
post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Agreed 100%... it would have happened along side the eMac, nice and quietly.

Not quite sure on that. Don't forget that, for some reason, the iMac Flat Panel had until now a rather slow update cycle, roughly one speed bump per year. This is perhaps the result of some scheduling-ahead in Apple's part as far as processor supplies are concerned, but it does not change the fact that the iMac has progressed slowly from its very introduction and that its next update may sport the new 7447A G4s.
post #54 of 84
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldmacfan
[B]As for OS X on x86, back before OS X was released, Apple was said to have it running on x86 computers."


My reasoning was not based on PC's running osx ( see pear PC ) but was based on the fact that apple still makes its $ in hardware and Sj knows this and would never allow the mac osx to be run officially on a little beige box apple's all about brand these days. Thats why i go never.
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
WWDC 2004 will bring:
-upgraded g5s (it's almost been a year already....it's time for an upgrade...this isnt a 'maybe' situation)
-updated Apple displays to match the Powermacs
-upgraded iPods..... the video out option would be absolutely amazing....along with the ability to use it with the iSight to record DV video would be awesome. (not sure if the processing power in the iPods can handle this sort of thing, but im sure the interface(FireWire) can handle the transfer rates.
-Tiger

Is this really in the realm of possibilities? All of this?

I'm rather ignorant of past WWDC offerings, so have they ever released such a wide variety of big products? You just listed the four "biggest" products they make (excl. PBs) and these also happen to be the four that I want.

Could these all be updated in one event? Is it likely?

ps- I heard that there are no new hard drives being bought up, meaning that 4th gen iPods aren't likely...?
post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Just because those languages don't take advantage of it doesn't mean that they can't integrate them into XCode. I'll reiterate my point of apple pushing perl developers to the Cocoa API... how can they ask this if they don't have an environment (besides pico, vi, emacs, etc) to write their code?

Also I don't believe true ANSI 89 C can take advantage of Live Linking (if thats the name, I know what you're talking about if it isn't).

I agree completely with that, and I guess my point was as clear as mud. What I was trying to get at was that for those kind of languages, I feel you would need something more than just syntax coloring. After all, everyone does that (BBEdit, UltraEdit, EmEditor, etc.)

I think that Project Management could be a huge bonus to those languages. That is something that I would look for from a IDE. Project Management for PHP would be awesome, especially to the Web Development community.

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post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Soire
Is this really in the realm of possibilities? All of this?

I'm rather ignorant of past WWDC offerings, so have they ever released such a wide variety of big products? You just listed the four "biggest" products they make (excl. PBs) and these also happen to be the four that I want.

Could these all be updated in one event? Is it likely?

ps- I heard that there are no new hard drives being bought up, meaning that 4th gen iPods aren't likely...?

Well last year they came out with a slew of things,

iSight, iChatAV, new powermac g5's (that was HUGE), Panther, AirPort Extreme, safari 1.0... If they can announce that they can announce the above list.

The only thing I'm not completely sure about is the iMacs... PB was right... they used to be "about" yearly updates. But they have to be updated. They are way overpriced compared to everything else. Gee, a 1.2ghz ibook for 1495 or a 1.25 iMac 17" for 1795. Or we can go with the 1ghz iMac 15" for 1295 or a 14" 1ghz ibook for 1295. Same price and one has many more features.

At the same time you can go out and buy a 1.25ghz 17" eMac for 794!!! So basically the only thing the iMac has going for it is its looks. Even that has faded big time. I would like to see sale #'s on just iMacs... anyone have any? I would bet my life savings its not very high.

Basically they need to update it asap. I'm not saying it is going to be at WWDC... but that is a likely place for them to quickly go over it.

After looking at the keynote from last year, Basically all they really had was announcements and statistics. Spending about 1/2 the time on Panther. Developers like hearing about these things, it keeps them interested in producing software.

Also, from what I have been seeing Apple has been purchasing one bigger drive, 50 or 60. This could simply mean a bump in iPods... maybe 20,30,50?? I think 20 would be perfect for their lowend if they could bump up the battery life.

 

 

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post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
At the same time you can go out and buy a 1.25ghz 17" eMac for 794!!! So basically the only thing the iMac has going for it is its looks. Even that has faded big time. I would like to see sale #'s on just iMacs... anyone have any? I would bet my life savings its not very high.

Basically they need to update it asap.

Exactly. The only way the stagnation of the iMac makes any sense at all is if they plan to upgrade it to a G5 and keep the same prices, or even lower them.
post #59 of 84
We are all a product of the "group think" mentality. Everyone here tries to persuade everyone else and then the most "reasonable" conclusion becomes the widespread fact or most likely scenario that Apple will develop.

I am bored by some of these predictions, the iMac is Apple's bread and butter, it is the iPod times ten, it is the single unit that saved Apple. The iPod is not the new iMac, it is the new music player. Apple will do something with the iMac to bring it back to yesteryear status. It will once again sell in excess of 400,000 units by itself in a single quarter, and Apple will sell well over 1 million macs and iPods in the same quarter-count on it.
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post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
We are all a product of the "group think" mentality. Everyone here tries to persuade everyone else and then the most "reasonable" conclusion becomes the widespread fact or most likely scenario that Apple will develop.

I am bored by some of these predictions, the iMac is Apple's bread and butter, it is the iPod times ten, it is the single unit that saved Apple. The iPod is not the new iMac, it is the new music player. Apple will do something with the iMac to bring it back to yesteryear status. It will once again sell in excess of 400,000 units by itself in a single quarter, and Apple will sell well over 1 million macs and iPods in the same quarter-count on it.

I hope you're right. Thats why I'm saying they need a BIG change. I like your point of the "group think" mentality. That is true.

The iMac is losing popularity it gained a few years ago. People I talk to hear iMac and think of it when it was different colors. A lot of those computers were sold at that time. It was a consumer's computer finally, being a choice in colors. Normal consumers felt warm with the computer for once, and I think thats why it was so popular.

If apple can rejuvenate that feeling and make it powerful enough to keep up with today's standards then the iMac will finally gain popularity again. But jacking up the price to 1900 dollars for the high end version is NOT going to persuade anyone. The price was a big part of it's success. No one cares about a 20" lcd except pro users. I don't think pro users want a machine that isn't expandable. If they are going to pay that much then why not buy a g5.

The 17" iMac is a loser IMO too. 1795 usd. Many consumers will never pay that kind of a price. You can count on the iMac being sold in the 150k-200k range until that price is adjusted. It is a consumer machine, not a pro machine, but apple seems to think otherwise.

I also understand that lcd's aren't cheap and that's why the iMac is so expensive. This excuse doesn't justify anything though. I would like to see how many 17" & 20" iMacs have been sold compared to the 15".

 

 

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post #61 of 84
I think the biggest factor speaking for the iMac upgrade is the disparity in price between it and the eMac... If you remember when they came out, there was only about a $200 difference between the iMac and the eMac with similar CPU/optical configs. so why then the much larger price disparity? Certainly 15 and 17 inch LCDs haven't gone up that much in price, and they are basically the same as far as internals go, in fact I suspect the eMac guts are probably harder to pack in there. I suspect you will find the price goes to bring it more on par with the eMac, while getting more PowerBook like internal specs.
post #62 of 84
The eMac and the iMac were originally $100 apart.

My big, #1, they'd-better-at-least-talk-about-it expectation: QuickTime 7. Redone. Thread-safe. Streamlined. Finally, at long last up to par with the rest of OS X's technologies in terms of quality of implementation.

Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...

Since that's not future hardware: I'm expecting two hardware announcements: FireWire over 802.15.3 (aka, Wireless FireWire, with 480Mbps bandwidth - and yeah, there's some software involved, too), and discussion of the POWER5-lite, whatever they decide to call it.
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post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...

I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only, when displaying audio and video content. And don't get me started on RealPlayer, RealOne or whatever they call it these days...
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post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
People, there will be no consumer devices, iPod or otherwise at WWDC. It's a developer conference.

It's true it's a developer conference, but come on people, this is Marketing 101 here. It's a BIG press event that will get a lot of coverage. Apple & teh Steve will intro whatever they have ready - consumer or pro be damned.
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by ipodandimac
hmm... well, you'll be one of the early praisers of display support, then bitchers about battery life. seriously, i'm tired of this.

IF battery life was NOT an issue, bluetooth would be nice to share your library with fellow walkers. That's it. When I'm walking to class I don't give a damn what pictures are stored on my iPod. I can wait til a projector or TV is around, as seems more realistic.

I can see your idea now:
"Hey check out this pic of--" *gets run over by bus*

You might want to read back a bit.

hmurchison was talking about an in-dash car device to marry with the iPod. Battery life isn't an issue unless you're worried about your car's battery? Bluetooth, etc. would all be great things to see in a DIN car dash device.
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post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavriel
I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only

Me too, but I don't see much hope. The MPEG-4 consortium shot themselves in the foot with their restrictive licensing policies.
post #67 of 84
MPEG-4 would rule right now if it were not for those #^(*&@#^&(&*% retards at the licencing group! Sigh.. MWP becomes the default just by being ubiquitous and being backed by MS.. Oh well.
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post #68 of 84
I really have nothing to bring to the table except my opinion......but, if Apple does not announce 3.0 Gig G5s, like Jobs promised last year, the shit should (and likely will) hit the fan.

Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.

People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.

Don't promise what you can't deliver.

The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.

Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.

Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.

Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.


-Dr.Bimane
post #69 of 84
IMO, (on the opic of G5s) it was foolish of Steve to make such claims in the first place. Heh, it's not as though he has any influence over fab yields. Everyone has been running into increasing problems as the processes get smaller and smaller. He just set himself up for a fall. Just chalk it up as learning experience to keep his big mouth shut and he'll just have to take his licks at the WWDC.

But here's to hoping he can prove me wrong!

C.
post #70 of 84
Croquer dans la is reporting a Dual PPC 975 @ 3GHz to be annnounced at WWDC. Should include PCI-Express, FSB of 1.5GHz and a few other goodies.

Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.

Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.

Thanks
Dave
post #71 of 84
First of all, I agree that jobs shouldn't make a claim that is 12 months away!! IBM fab plants could have fallen into the ocean... who the hell knows what happens in 12 months.

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
Croquer dans la is reporting a Dual PPC 975 @ 3GHz to be annnounced at WWDC. Should include PCI-Express, FSB of 1.5GHz and a few other goodies.

Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.

Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.

Thanks
Dave

Clock rate doesn't matter as much as dual memory controllers. From what I understand the power5 has an on-chip mem controller... IE dual mem controllers. I think this is the main bottleneck in the current g5s.... and why I didn't buy one.

I do think apple will announce 3gs at wwdc... but I think they will ship in september... but only a "couple" will ship in that time... just so he'll be right. Then the rest will ship in oct/nov just like last year.

 

 

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post #72 of 84
What's the big deal really? SO what if the new computers are 2.6 gig or 3? They are really fast and getting faster. In the long run it really doesn't matter. In fact, I have been prductively using a computer that has half the clock speed of the difference in what you would call failure.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr.Bimane
I really have nothing to bring to the table except my opinion......but, if Apple does not announce 3.0 Gig G5s, like Jobs promised last year, the shit should (and likely will) hit the fan.

Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.

People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.

Don't promise what you can't deliver.

The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.

Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.

Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.

Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.


-Dr.Bimane
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by wwwork
What's the big deal really? SO what if the new computers are 2.6 gig or 3?

You're right, of course. The only 'but' is that Mr. Jobs has promised the world a 3GHz CPU this summer. It can hurt his and Apple's reputation badly. Note, however, that IBM didn't promise anything that cool.
Quote:
In the long run it really doesn't matter. In fact, I have been prductively using a computer that has half the clock speed of the difference in what you would call failure.

If it doesn't matter to you, that does not mean it doesn't matter at all (excellent phrasing, by the way ). First, there are people and companies who need thousands times faster computers for their everyday needs. Second, there is marketing which always likes higher numbers, whatever they mean.
Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by costique
Second, there is marketing which always likes higher numbers, whatever they mean.

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Comedy Central's ad campaign proves your point.
post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
South Park Season 8: The Highest Numbered Season Yet!!!

Comedy Central's ad campaign proves your point.



On a serious note, Croquer is starting to scare me.
Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
xCode
Again, this is a developer's conference, so they need to show something more than just Tiger. xCode is probably one of the biggest innovations when it comes to the overall workflow of the development process. I hope that they include other languages other that C/C++/Obj.C/Java. Other languages like Python, PHP, Perl, etc. could use with an awesome IDE like xCode (PHP and Perl may be a little difficult, being that they are scripting languages). I think they will improve upon the stability, improve upon the feature set, and improve upon the speed of the application. xCode is not something that should be over-looked, as it could very well revolutionize the whole developmental process.

Yeah, it might start to catch up with .NET.

The biggest difficulty with scripting languages is the debugger support, which is a big part of the reason for an IDE.

Quote:
975?
Now I think that this is worth mentioning. The 975 (or whatever they hell they want to call it) is supposed to be based off from the Power5 chipset. This is a huge advance in quite a short period of time. As such, I think they may announce what it is, and where it will go. I honestly think we will not see a new machine with it at the WWDC, but I think we will see its immergance during MWSF 2005.

I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.

Well I think whatever the power5 is, will arrive at wwdc... since ibm is shipping them mid june. From what I've read about the new blades, they bring to the table of smt, 1mb l2 cache, and on-board mem controller... but I think they have more transistors (going out of memory on this one).

Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #78 of 84
Are you saying the 975 is a 130nm chip? If so what else do you know?

YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.

IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?

Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(

thanks
Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by emig647

Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?
post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
Are you saying the 975 is a 130nm chip? If so what else do you know?

YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.

IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?

Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(

thanks
Dave

First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...

The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...

IBM Blade servers with PPC POWER5

I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?

 

 

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post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...

The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...

IBM Blade servers with PPC POWER5

I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?

Apple won't use the POWER5 directly any more than they'll use the POWER4. Sure IBM can build a huge 130 nm chip, but the price would be way too much for Apple's current markets (and they've shown no inclination to go into higher markets). That it doesn't have AltiVec puts POWER5 completely off Apple's radar.

The existence of a PPC 975 does not equate to "scrapping" the 970fx. The iMac, PowerBook, Xserves, and a potential headless low end box would all use the 970fx. The 975 would let them differentiate their PowerMacs from all the lower end machines, yet keep the lower end machines cool, cheap, and competitive -- something Apple's hasn't been able to manage for a long time. This would parallel the 603 vs 604 series back in '95-'96.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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