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wmd found?  

post #1 of 162
Thread Starter 
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=5166153
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
post #2 of 162
not surprising. i always found it curious that they found gas masks and protective suits in the Iraqi army's bunkers and other places as well. no one seemed to make a big deal about it at the time
post #3 of 162
No doubt this is more spin from Bushcorp. The real question is when the US ship chemical weapons in to Iraq and fake this attack.
post #4 of 162
Thread Starter 
Well I'm just not so sure they should be classifying one single IED that may or may not be laced with Serin as WMD.

I mean nobody considers IED to be weapons targeted at masses of people...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
post #5 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
No doubt this is more spin from Bushcorp. The real question is when the US ship chemical weapons in to Iraq and fake this attack.

Whatever they're paying you Scott, it's nowhere near enough
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #6 of 162
It would be a bad thing if we found WMD in Iraq the hard way.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #7 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
No doubt this is more spin from Bushcorp. The real question is when the US ship chemical weapons in to Iraq and fake this attack.

I have a question for you Scott. Do you know what Serin is and how to produce it? Do you know how hard/easy it is to produce? Do you know what chemicals (or what class of chemicals ie cleaning, farming...) are used as to produce Serin? Do you know of any civilian incidents involving Serin?

"Finding" one IED laced with Serin over a year after we went to Iraq when we "Knew" where these stockpiles were prior to the war is a weak link. Additionally, how many times have we "found" VX, Serin, or Nuclear WMD thus far? Lets see, there were the 10 shells found by the Dutch. There was a pesticide cache thought to be VX found within weeks of the fall of Baghdad. There was a nuclear stockpile found within weeks of the fall of Baghbad that turned out to be medical waste.

Here's some answers to the above questions:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfactsd4.html
http://cfrterrorism.org/weapons/sarin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

If you feel this single incident was justification for the war then I'm sorry for you.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
post #8 of 162
Iraq never got its sarin pure enough to store for longer than a couple months, so, if it is sarin, it's from elsewhere. Iraq's sarin at best was only @ 60% purity (50% is low end of effective range) and is estimates to have really only been between 20-50% in production.

But don't let the facts stop you from desperately searching for any scrap that feeds your inaccurate beliefs.
post #9 of 162
If this is an accurate report, the fact that it was an artillery shell is unsettling. I'd hate to see common roadside bombings turn into much worse.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #10 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Iraq never got its sarin pure enough to store for longer than a couple months, so, if it is sarin, it's from elsewhere. Iraq's sarin at best was only @ 60% purity (50% is low end of effective range) and is estimates to have really only been between 20-50% in production.

But don't let the facts stop you from desperately searching for any scrap that feeds your inaccurate beliefs.


.....don't they have a "best if detonated by" date on the side of the casing?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #11 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
.....don't they have a "best if detonated by" date on the side of the casing?

Yes, although the sticker actually says 'Worst if detonated by.'
post #12 of 162
John 4:48

Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."

Nothing will ever convince some people that WMDs exist in Iraq. For a good number of people, there is simply nothing under the canopy of heaven that will be enough to outweigh the singular hatred for Bushcorp. If Saddam went on CBS and said he had them- well, he was coerced. If they fell from the sky with Iraqi flags painted on them- well, we painted the flags on them. If some Iraqi scientist comes forward and says that they exist- well, he must be a coalition puppet.

Nothing will ever be good enough.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #13 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
John 4:48

Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."

Nothing will ever convince some people that WMDs exist in Iraq. For a good number of people, there is simply nothing under the canopy of heaven that will be enough to outweigh the singular hatred for Bushcorp. If Saddam went on CBS and said he had them- well, he was coerced. If they fell from the sky with Iraqi flags painted on them- well, we painted the flags on them. If some Iraqi scientist comes forward and says that they exist- well, he must be a coalition puppet.

Nothing will ever be good enough.

Would have been a great soundbite - except for the fact that there's still no sign of them....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #14 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum

Nothing will ever be good enough.

I don't know about that, but a single artillery shell which even the military says is most likely pre-1991 is definitely not good enough.
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post #15 of 162
Ahhh....and religion enters. The parallels of blind faith in something contradictory to the facts are wonderful. Saddam was armed with WMD and evolution is a myth. Thanks for letting us know.

Church of Bush.
post #16 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Whatever they're paying you Scott, it's nowhere near enough

post #17 of 162
...now the're saying someone FUBARed a IED with mustard gas a couple of weeks ago. Because of---improper storage, etc--it didn't work.


But


Where are "these people" getting used-up, past-freshness-date WMD anyway?


YIKES!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #18 of 162
John 4:48

Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."

Nothing will ever convince some people that WMDs do not exist in Iraq. For a good number of people, there is simply nothing under the canopy of heaven that will be enough to outweigh their slavish devotion to Bushcorp. If Saddam went on CBS and said he did not have them - well, he must be lying. If none were found after over a year of searching, we just haven't found them yet. (We probably need to look in Syria.) If some Iraqi scientist comes forward and says that they do not exist - well, he must be a puppet of Saddam. Or the Godless Europeans.

Nothing will ever be good enough.
post #19 of 162
What I see they are claiming is that it was a binary munition.

You have to love fox news, though:
Quote:
Investigators are trying to determine how insurgents obtained these weapons whether they were looted or supplied.

Nice way to frame it. You guys must be glad they do the thinking for you and then package every statement in assumptions.
post #20 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
...now the're saying someone FUBARed a IED with mustard gas a couple of weeks ago. Because of---improper storage, etc--it didn't work.


But


Where are "these people" getting used-up, past-freshness-date WMD anyway?


YIKES!

Mustard Gas is very easy to make. To make and IED with this substance requires that an old artillery shell be filled with new or old (MG does last for a while unlike VX and Sarin) mustard gas and viola. Any old shell could be converted for this purpose; however, specialized shells are required to disperse chemical weaponry in battle.

Mustard gas is an effective weapon because it produces wounded casualties vice dead ones. Taking care of the wounded consumes more resources than taking care of the dead.

A little more info on MG:
http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Chemistr...rd/mustard.htm
http://cfrterrorism.org/weapons/mustard.html
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sulfurmu...sics/facts.asp
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
post #21 of 162
So the US terminated the UN weapons inspections after they did not find proof for what? 3 month?
Then the very same US throws wave after wave of chemicals weapons specialists at Iraq and after one whole year of full control of the country they still have found nothing.

And now some goons just march up a highway and plant a chemical shell and a detonator. Uhuh, they surely hid the thing under a pillow for the last 10 years ...
post #22 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Mustard gas is an effective weapon because it produces wounded casualties vice dead ones. Taking care of the wounded consumes more resources than taking care of the dead.

It's a battlefield weapon, but the Church of Bush doesn't know any better so the fearmongering works.
post #23 of 162
One thing we know: there were no plants to build any of this shit anytime recently.
post #24 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
So the US terminated the UN weapons inspections after they did not find proof for what? 3 month?
Then the very same US throws wave after wave of chemicals weapons specialists at Iraq and after one whole year of full control of the country they still have found nothing.

And now some goons just march up a highway and plant a chemical shell and a detonator. Uhuh, they surely hid the thing under a pillow for the last 10 years ...

This is proof enough that Bush planted that shell there via Rummy.
post #25 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
This is proof enough that Bush planted that shell there via Rummy.

Nice evasive arguments thus far. Why even post if you can't submit a concise thought and a credible link to back your thoughts? No one said the shell was planted by the US. We're saying the significance of one device is that it was probably newly made (uh oh spaghetti-o's) or one of the few remaining shells from pre-91. Need I bring up former war hawk David Kay again?
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
post #26 of 162
Quote:
Kimmitt said it appeared that whoever set up the roadside bomb was unaware that it contained the chemicals..."It had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell, set up like an IED."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
post #27 of 162
It didn't take very long for religion to make an appearance in the thread.

I saw a video of Bush happily claiming "we found the WMDs!" at the time when the "deadly" trailers used to produce hydrogen were found.

This is the way it works. Create something that will generate headlines. Talk about it over and over again. When the facts come out, just say you misspoke. The wrong assumption/claims etc will make the headlines. The corrections will make page 11. It's a very effective modus operandi.
post #28 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
......it was a binary munition.

....would that be XP or Longhorn?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #29 of 162
Besides, to justify invading a country because it had WMDs(before we turned it into a "Liberation" mission ), I would hope we would find thousands of WMDs, and the thousands upon thousands of lbs. of deadly chemicals we were told SH had.

An artillery shell or two won't cut it.
post #30 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
It's a very effective modus operandi.

It's (over) used in arresting suspects too - arrest the 'terrorist cell' complete with 'nerve agent' or whatever and months later when they are released without charge the event gets legalese print underneath the society appointments column on page 26.

I think they're refining the MO now though - they just don't release them.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #31 of 162
Was I the only who had to go to acronymfinder.com to find out what IED (Improvised Explosive Device) meant? With less than great confidence I had guessed the "ED" part, but certainly didn't get from context that the "Improvised" nature of the device was what was being emphasized.

WMD is now well entrenched in our everyday vocabulary now, but I don't think IED it quite ready to be treated as commonplace and immediately understood by everyone.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
post #32 of 162
I'm amazed that it's taken 18 months since the inspections resumed for just one, perhaps two shells of old chemical weapons stock to show up. It just shows that either :

(a) how little of this stuff was left after the Gulf War and subsequent inspection programs...the inspection job was well done and almost complete, and no new programs were initiated.....and/or

(b) There's a whole bunch of this stuff still lying around in Iraq, following the chaos and upheaval of the 1991 war. We all know how bureaucracy works: Probably most of the records are lost, destroyed, looted, stolen, whatever. Here in America, the Pentagon "loses" $$billions each year. The Pentagon cant account for 25 percent of what it spends on an annual basis
http://defazio.house.gov/UpPentagon.shtml
If our own military, the most advanced, disciplined and efficient and cannot keep accurate records and accounting in a country which is at peace (within its own borders) then just how in hell does one expect a country like Iraq, which has been invaded twice in the last 13 years, and has been in a state of relative chaos and war throughtout the duration?

This is the first time that chemical weapons have been used in Iraq since the invasion of Kuwait. It looks accidental and random, and the insurgents probably had no clue what the shell markings (if still decipherable) meant. The lack of use of chemical/bio weapons by either Saddam's forces or the insurgency tells me that they either (a) didn't have any left, (b) were not prepared to use it if they did have it or (c) what was left of the old stock was scattered about the countryside in ammunition dumps with nobody really knowing what was where.

Please leave your hysteria at the door.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #33 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
Was I the only who had to go to acronymfinder.com to find out what IED (Improvised Explosive Device) meant? With less than great confidence I had guessed the "ED" part, but certainly didn't get from context that the "Improvised" nature of the device was what was being emphasized.

WMD is now well entrenched in our everyday vocabulary now, but I don't think IED it quite ready to be treated as commonplace and immediately understood by everyone.

Hmm - can a WMD be a IED though ?

I mean can you improvise a Sarin lab or a nuclear programme ? And if you can doesn't the 'improvised' bit detract somewhat from the ......umm....can't find the phraseology....oh well....who cares....on......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #34 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
....would that be XP or Longhorn?



Norton Utilities, IIRC
post #35 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
No doubt this is more spin from Bushcorp. The real question is when the US ship chemical weapons in to Iraq and fake this attack.

Damn man, I have a tinfoil hat on but I think yours is way too tight!

The WMDs did exist, Bush 41, Clinton, and Bush 43, not to mention, the UN all said they were there, If Sodam hid for as long as he did IN A FRIGGEN HOLE just imagine where you could hide/burry chemical containers, hell, a nuke can fit IN A SUITCASE

Nedle in the hay stack isnt even a good annaloyy - how about "finding a breifcase in a desert" easier sayd than done..
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
post #36 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Damn man, I have a tinfoil hat on but I think yours is way too tight!

"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
post #37 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by Jubelum
John 4:48

Jesus told him, "You people will never believe unless you see miraculous signs and wonders."

As a Christian, I find your use of this bible quote in this thread strongly offensive and outmost disrespectful of the faith. Shame. Shame on you.
post #38 of 162
The word "mass" hasn't come into affect yet, so hold off on the pats on the back.

Everyone, don't get yer panties in a bunch here. Everyone is getting way too personal and mixing up whatever baggage they brought in and basically ignoring the topic. That can't continue.
post #39 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9



On so many levels
post #40 of 162
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
One thing we know: there were no plants to build any of this shit anytime recently.

You don't know that. There is a certain AQ operative in the country that knows how to make ricin. Wanna guess his name?
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