Israeli army helicopter kills at least 20 protestors with missiles... - Page 2

From the dictionary


Can anti-semitic can also mean anti-arabic? or are Jews too important for the word to mean anything else? \

Yes, these would be those "stealth bulldozers". The ones that are impossible to hear in the middle of the night as they approach a particular "house" at a whopping 15 mph with giant floodlights a blazing to light the way. Those? Lemme guess, you also heard they drive these "silent bulldozers" with night goggles so they don't have to use the lights?


The Darwin criteria would suggest you don't house terrorists in your domicile, lest you risk getting caught in their crossfire. Oh, you say they are not allowed to leave? They are captives? I guess their "guests" have doomed them, no?


Cuz it's the Middle East? I guess even 20/20 hindsight isn't enough to give these people a clue. It's also logically unsafe to bum-rush a tank batallion.


Exactly. There's more to this story. Unfortunately, some readers prefer to only gleen the details that support their agenda, instead of waiting for the complete report of the events to really find out what went down there.


Let the record show that SJO honestly believes the Israeli military actively target civilians to which to expend their ammunition.


Yes, must be that simple...


It's questionable what we do know vs. what we are fed. Either side you choose to be on, there are sources of severe misinformation.

I have an orthodox ruling to clear up the confusion. According to Rabbi Dov Lior it's ok to kill civilians (my bold):


I think this applies when it's Israelis doing the killing though - it's obviously not ok for anyone else to kill civilians whether to save 'so-called innocent lives' or not.

And that's not racist. No, definitely not. Hope that clears up any misunderstandings - it's all ok. Move along - nothing to see.....

Why wouldn't you allow the Darwin criteria to apply for Israelis as well? Because you're a racist. Congratulations.

Broken recor...

Broken recor...

Broken recor...

Broken recor...

Broken recor...

Dude, Scott, you're like living in an alternate universe where everyone is partisan except you.

In case you still don't get it, the difference is that although both Hamas and the current Jewish government are clearly terrorist organizations, the US is only giving money and weapons to one of them. The US is only supporting one of them. The US is only condemning one of them (and when I say US I mean every US administration, including Clinton). That's why we people feel the need to speak out when we see such injustice. Justice would be for ALL terrorists, Sharon and Arafat alike, to be treated equally.

The only explanation I can gather is that you do not see firing missiles at a crowd of mostly innocent people as a terrorist act IF those people happen to be Muslim. It does appear that in your mind, "Middle Eastern Muslim" = "terrorist" and all such are guilty until proven innocent, with death as their rightful punishment. You, sir, appear to be far more bigoted than any here whom you've so repeatedly been calling anti-semitic.

I can see this makes for a great argument in the decision of past and future disputes.
Taking a bus in Israel and being blown sky-high by some Palestinian madman wearing a belt of explosives? Your fault. The darwinian instinct could have told you not to...

Does anyone here work in a skyscraper in the US, per chance? What about 9/11 firefighters? Heros or fools? Thanks to Randycat we now know the answer. Pass the message to their widows, will you?

Always blame the victim, this way you can avoid ever criticizing "your" side. Go with the team! Don't ever hesitate!

Well, the UN security council just condemned the massacre (the US abstained, but did not veto).

So, Scot and Randycat, is the security council now officially anti-semitic? They clearly did send a one-sided message here - focused on a single incident. No lame excuses based on some darwinian hogwash either, as far as I can tell.

Israel, with a sense of humor, killed five more palestinians in response - just to give the UN the stink finger, I presume.

Didn't want to get into yet-another bashing contest, but this article from Yahoo (Associated Press) pushed me into it. Here are some quotes from

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716



Can Israel please share some of the crack it is supplying to the junkies in the white house? It seems to working wonders.

New! You didn't answer my question. Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed. Where's you condemnation then?

Maybe? How 'bout the next time a bomb goes off in the Jewish state you run straight to your computer and post a thread bemoaning the endless cycle of violence that the arab muslims are instigating and wax on about how Arafat and IJ and Hamas and most other arab countries are trying to destabilize the region and what a horrible violation of international law it is and how the UN needs to pass a resolution against it and on and on.

So start one already. If you see an injustice going on that others here might not be aware of, feel free to bring it to our attention.

The thing is, I guarantee that you won't find a single person on these boards trying to defend a Palestinian terrorist who has just murdered a group of innocent civilians.

He's too blindly racist to acknowledge that fact.

The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$TTP5WWJFKPQ0RQFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2004/05/20/wmid20.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/20/ixnewstop.html
Does it surprise me that the psychopathic Bush administration tacitly supports this kind of state run terrorism and murder by Israel (in contrast to the universal global condemnation) by abstaining in the UN security councils resolution? Not one bit. Anything the Israelis do is OK with them. If Sharon nuked Damascus or Teheran on a whim, Bush and company would probably be OK with that also.

The Rapture? Bring it on .

Children's march with big brothers with guns.

Don't want to rock the boat sammi jo but we aren't there and the stories coming to us are varied...this is a typical sick cycle of events...over and over and over...they can all go to their religious forms of "paradise" as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to find a job, get back to living and they can all go fuck themselves.

Sammi....so upset at childrens deaths...never upset when they are jewish children though..you know, the ones always on the buses that explode?

Yes, this is a pretty horrible incident. Too bad people on this thread only feel it is horrible enough to discuss when it is Arab who have died. Yes, I know, all violence is the ME is bad, yet you all seem to only get riled up about it when it is acts of violence from the jewish state. I can't remember ever seeing SJo post link after repetitive link regarding the evils and corruption of the PA. I haven't seen NEW start a thread about the loss of Jewish women and childen, having their throats cut in their homes. Bunge has yet to get into a heated arguement decrying the busloads of jews killed every year. Sure, these people may throw in the occasional "boy, that was awful" or "well, the wasn't nice" but it's always with conditions. "well, that was awful that a busload of jews got blown up again...damn Sharon..He is to blame"


Scott has said as much, but of course you all just dismiss it as extremist rantings. Easy to brush it off a rationalise your onesided views. But, perhaps scott is right. perhaps for some, but not all, you views are based on a hatred of jews, perhaps not even a hatred you acknoledge to yourself. It wasn't too long ago I remember reading about another incident where every one jumping up and down about an act involving Irsael. At the time I think it was said that it was due to "typical jewish arrogance". Realistically, that statement could be assigned to many of you and you wouldn't flinch.

"Israel apologized for the deaths, saying its troops did not deliberately fire on marchers. A preliminary army investigation concluded that a warning shot fired by a tank flew through a building and hit the crowd, security sources said on condition of anonymity."

Ah...they are learning from us...if all else fails use the "Magic Bullet Theory".

/thanksarlenspecter...

" Israel also blamed the Palestinians, saying gunmen infiltrated the crowd of about 3,000 people protesting the incursion into the Rafah refugee camp. Witnesses denied militants were among the marchers, and Palestinian leaders denounced the incident as a massacre."

Ooop. My bad. They're both asshats...

Some people posting in this thread refuse to recognize that it is never legal to fire tank rounds into a crowd of people, even if they have guns.

Don't put me in that group. Or I'll get my tank after you.

/allthisisgoingnowhereagain

Poor examples.


Does the bomber step on the bus with the "Palestinian madman" outfit with belt explosives fully exposed? I'm pretty sure they don't, and if they did, they'd be pretty stupid to follow him into the same bus just to get to their destination. So yes, there is an applicable Darwin element there. The reality, however, is that the bombers don't announce their intentions beforehand. There is no "context" to respond to. The other bus passengers are not in a protest nor are they deliberately approaching an armed battalion with harmful intent. They are simply riding in a freakin' bus.


It was their duty to save people. They know well beforehand that their lives will be at risk while doing what they do. They also don't bring along "children" in their squad while performing their duties. They also don't rush into a burning structure that is clearly about to collapse. They do have an idea of when the risk is manageable to enter a structure, when it is necessary to pullback, and when it is best to not enter at all. They are heros. Only you could actually be uncertain on this.

Question is, who is a protestor directly "saving" by marching toward an armed battle unit? Was it wise to bring along women and children in their demonstration? What did they hope to accomplish other than become fodder for the media feeding fest?


The devil is in the details. You won't get far just by reacting to sensationalist newspaper headlines.

A photojournalist at the march...no, wait...I photoshopped it. The whole damn situation in the Middle East was photoshopped. Didn't you know that?

Find it yourself.

You can start here...but be warned the images are graphic.

Can't find it either - and the photos of Rafah (10 plus pages and 10-20 or so a page) seem to be not all from the demo/last few days.

In fact I think it seems too be a photo pool where only the first page or so relates to the incident afaict.

Great site though - the pic of 5 year old junior in Brooklyn on the homepage is incredible.

Sorry to rain on your preconceptions, but go check the AO archives on this subject. As I pointed out earlier on, I have railed harsher against Hamas, Islamic Jihad terror groups than the Israeli equivalent. Perhaps someone needs to speak out for the Palestinian kids....the media ignores them, as if they are lesser humans than Israeli kids. Perhaps it's because their religion is "incorrect", so their lives aren't worth it.

Humans are humans, life is life, favoritism be damned.

A hip drag queen and
a side-walkin' street wheeler,
Comin' down the avenue.
They're all your friends,
you'll come to love 'em
There's a load of 'em
waitin' for you.

Lookout Jo, you're comin' home.
Old times were good times,
Old times were good times.

Remember Millie
from down in Philly?
She took my brain
and forgot my name.
The woman you were with
was about the same
She took your money and left town.

Lookout Jo, you're comin' home.
Old times were good times,
Old times were good times.

Glory Hallelujah!
Will I lay my burden down?
Singin' on the streets around:
Look at that crazy clown.

Remember Bill from up on the hill?
A Cadillac put a hole in his arm.
But old Bill, he's up there still,
Havin' a ball
rollin' to the bottom.

Lookout Jo, you're comin' home.
Old times were good times,
Old times were good times.

Just drop what you are doing and post a thread here in AO. Go on and on about the "cycle of violence" that the arab muslims terrorist are propagating and how they are trying to "destabilize" the region and how the terrorist "madness needs to stop".

Talk about being banned? If you're not at the top of the list I don't know why should be there.

Geesus, do I hear an echo in here?

Let me repeat by quoting myself:

The only thing the media ignores about those kids their involvement in the intifada. Arafat decried a few years ago that pictures of Palestinian children carrying guns and bomb belts hurt their image in liberal Europe. So, the media, eager to obey, ignores those stories and pictures.

You are right, those children shouldn't have died. And the peaceful demonstration shoudldn't have included armed members.

Oops!

The Jewish goventment is not a terrorist organisation. They are acting as any other govenment would, faced with a population within their borders and surrounded by nations bent of destroying them.

As far as funding, who cares who is funding them. If not for US funding, their would be no Israel. And as much as that concept may please some here, it would involve the "liquidation of the zionist presence." Many palestinian groups are well sponsored by Europe. Europe is only condemning one side. Europe is only suporting one side. So, shouldn't that make people feel the need to speak out when they see injustice?

I wonder how many AI members here would participate in an "adopt a Palestinian family" program. If you wish for them to have a home, you can finally enable that wish- let them share yours! Then you can post back here to let us know what wonderful housemates they are turning out to be...

Hmmm...maybe I should write my liberal congressman/woman about this idea!