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Israeli army helicopter kills at least 20 protestors with missiles... - Page 3

post #81 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Just drop what you are doing and post a thread here in AO. Go on and on about the "cycle of violence" that the arab muslims terrorist are propagating and how they are trying to "destabilize" the region and how the terrorist "madness needs to stop".

Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Sun-Tzu
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post #82 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Sun-Tzu



The answer to a fool is silence.

Afghan proverb
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #83 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
The [Palestinian] goventment is not a terrorist organisation. They are acting as any other govenment would, faced with a population within their borders and surrounded by nations bent of destroying them.

...

Many [Israeli] groups are well sponsored by [the US of A]. [The US of A] is only condemning one side. [The US of A] is only suporting one side. So, shouldn't that make people feel the need to speak out when they see injustice?

Yes!

Europe condemns the suicide bombings but you choose to ignore it. If you acknowledge it, your argument is completely false so instead you pretend. Your fantasy about the region doesn't jive with reality.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #84 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
The only thing the media ignores about those kids their involvement in the intifada. Arafat decried a few years ago that pictures of Palestinian children carrying guns and bomb belts hurt their image in liberal Europe. So, the media, eager to obey, ignores those stories and pictures.

You are right, those children shouldn't have died. And the peaceful demonstration shoudldn't have included armed members.

So you consider a one year old 'involved' and complicit in the intifada? When their parents dresses them up, you consider them a valid target? That's sick in the head.

And when people bring guns to an NRA rally in Colorado, or a political rally in Texas, are they valid targets as well?

You can try to justify things but they still don't make sense. Even if someone, or many people, in that rally were carrying guns you can't simply kill them. They're on their own land, in a legal gathering, not attacking anyone. You can't kill people for that. And if for some reason they started shooting, you still can't kill them with tank rounds and missles. No matter how much you want to do that, it's illegal. It's no better than Dachau.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #85 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Excellent photosite. But... I can't seem to find that picture...

any progress artman?
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #86 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
The Jewish goventment is not a terrorist organisation. They are acting as any other govenment would, faced with a population within their borders and surrounded by nations bent of destroying them.

As far as funding, who cares who is funding them. If not for US funding, their would be no Israel. And as much as that concept may please some here, it would involve the "liquidation of the zionist presence." Many palestinian groups are well sponsored by Europe. Europe is only condemning one side. Europe is only suporting one side. So, shouldn't that make people feel the need to speak out when they see injustice?

Sorry, I meant "Israeli" government.

They are acting as any other government would? Bull. Any other government that shot civilians with missiles from attack helicopters, bulldozed homes that were legally owned property, erected barriers on public land to "keep out" unwanted ethnicities would be internationally condemned (except the US of course).

The Israeli government and Hamas are both terrorist organizations.
post #87 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by New
any progress artman?

artman ......?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #88 of 260
I've never seen so many racists in my life. They clearly think that the Jews are better than the Palestinians, even though both sides keep killing eachother. When the Palestinians kill innocent Jews, they are outraged, but when the Jews kill innocent Palestinians Israel is just doing "what any other government would do".

Meanwhile, why would I adopt a hardline Jewish family into my home and not a Palestinian one? To imply that we wouldn't want Palestinians in our homes is clearly racist on a level that can only lead one to believe you think all Palestinians are terrorists. Racist bigot. Racist bigot. the words you use to blame Muslims for what's wrong in the Middle East are equivalent to the words Hitler used to condemn the Jews. You are racist and your hatred is exactly what perpetuates this war.

Now as far as who started this freaking war... Israel stole their land. STOLE IT.

And then you say "but the negotiations" (whine whine whine). I say again. Let's say Israel stole California from YOU and after decades of negotiation finally told you you could have the Mojave desert but only if you agree to drop any further claim for more territory. Let's say Israel decided to bulldoze your HOME at 4 in the morning. Like you wouldn't be pissed and try any means necessary to stop the bulldozers...

post #89 of 260
Israeli forces have pulled back leaving a trail of destruction to property as well as the toll of dead people err....Palestinians.

Quote:
During their three-day occupation the Israeli troops demolished homes, ripped up streets and even destroyed the zoo.

A large olive orchard has been destroyed; there is not a tree left standing, and every street around it has been churned up by the tanks, our correspondent says.

The tarmac has been stripped from the roads and the front of shops sheered off by the passing heavy armour, our correspondent adds.

Along with the demolished homes the only zoo in the Gaza Strip has been ruined. Most of the nearly 80 animals have either escaped or been killed.

Rafah's mortuary overflowed and many of the dead have had to be stored in freezers in different parts of town.

Following the violence on Wednesday the UN Security Council adopted a resolution condemning the deaths and demolitions.

The UN says recent house demolitions in Rafah by the Israeli army have left about 1,600 residents homeless.

The resolution, which was adopted by 14 votes to 0, also urged Israel not to demolish homes in violation of international law.

No-one is going to do anything. Israel is the mad-dog of the middle east now and has a license to kill.

Sharon said today that despite the pull-back, operations would continue.

Better find some more freezer space.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #90 of 260
Thread Starter 
being a product of a disney generation, that stuff about the zoo somehow seems to say everything...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #91 of 260
No real answer yet huh New? Don't "cut and run". Next time a bomb blows up a bunch of kids in the Jewish state run right here and post a thread. Okay?
post #92 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
No real answer yet huh New? Don't "cut and run". Next time a bomb blows up a bunch of kids in the Jewish state run right here and post a thread. Okay?

answer to what?
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #93 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
No real answer yet huh New? Don't "cut and run". Next time a bomb blows up a bunch of kids in the Jewish state run right here and post a thread. Okay?

Let's just break this down.

You've no problem with tanks firing 'warning shots,' with innocent people getting killed in multiples of innocent Israelis, with even the zoo getting trashed?

Is there anything that the IDF could do that worry you? Anything?
meh
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meh
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post #94 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Artman @_@
A photojournalist at the march...no, wait...I photoshopped it. The whole damn situation in the Middle East was photoshopped. Didn't you know that?

Find it yourself.

You can start here...but be warned the images are graphic.


I still can't find that picture. Please, show me your source Artman.

'cause it's not hard to find disturbing pictures.

link
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #95 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Randycat, FYI, My palestinian friends are excellent people. Their hospitality are only rivaled by my american friends. ;-)

All the more reason to indicate your neglect in giving them a home vs. moaning and whining until the Israel situation "works itself out". It's all empty words until you step up to the plate to put actions behind those words.

I don't know how you come about equating "adopt a family" with "ethnic cleansing". In bunge's logic, you might be a racist.
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #96 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
So you consider a one year old 'involved' and complicit in the intifada? When their parents dresses them up, you consider them a valid target? That's sick in the head.

Any reasonable parent would know that bringing them along to such an event is patently unsafe. Would you dress up your own infant in a mock suicide bomber outfit and then drop them off in the middle of an ensuing riot?

Quote:
And when people bring guns to an NRA rally in Colorado, or a political rally in Texas, are they valid targets as well?

I was unaware that NRA and political rallies in the US end up in a movement to charge police/security forces with guns brandished. Usually they are imobile and the activities are clearly notified and scheduled. OTOH, a roving mob with live firearms is never an ingredient for a positive outcome.

Quote:
You can try to justify things but they still don't make sense.

Neither do the absurd examples that are being brought up here, seemingly typified with missing specific contexts ("stealth bulldozers", for example). I'd almost have to say you are deliberately putting us on Onion style with these premises.
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #97 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by New
I still can't find that picture. Please, show me your source Artman.

I don't think you get the "gag". Yeah, keep looking for it. I think it is on page 23.
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #98 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Let's just break this down.

You've no problem with tanks firing 'warning shots,' with innocent people getting killed in multiples of innocent Israelis, with even the zoo getting trashed?

Is there anything that the IDF could do that worry you? Anything?

To level any criticism of Israel is so politically incorrect that officials don't dare do so in public. "Holocaust denier" or "anti-semitic" accusations have a similar stigma to being branded a pedophile, and that's what people are so afraid of that a balanced discussion of the Israel-Palestine conflict cannot happen.

Israel has all the ace cards, from unconditional US funding of their military (read terrorist) activities, possessing the worlds 4th largest stash of WMD, having wars fought for their benefit by the US, as well as being secure in the knowledge that they are immune to criticism because of what happened 60 years ago.

Quote:
A BREAKDOWN OF UNITED STATES AID TO ISRAEL

Financial Aid

The Israeli government is the largest recipient of US financial aid in the world, receiving over one-third of total US aid to foreign countries4, even though Israels population comprises just .001% of the worlds population and has one the worlds higher per capita incomes.

*\t

Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).5

*\t

The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.

*\t

Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6

*\t

Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.

*\t

In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.



Military Aid

The United States provides direct and indirect military aid to Israel totalling more than it gives to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean put together, whose combined total population is 1,054,000,000.

According to a US Department of Defence Joint Report to Congress in March 2001, It is in the United States national interest to promote the existence of a stable, democratic and militarily strong Israel, at peace with its neighbours [].7 According to a US State Department statement in November 2002, the US government is committed to maintaining and enhancing Israels security and qualitative edge over any combination of adversaries and the important advantages the US-Israeli strategic relationship has and will continue to provide us.8

*\t

Foreign Military Financing (FMF) is grants to foreign governments financing the purchase of American-made weapons, services and training. Israel receives 50% of the FMF budget request. The large sums paid by the US to Egypt and Jordan are in recognition of the two countries signing peace accords with Israel in 1979 and 1994 respectively.


FMF Budget Request FY 2001tTotal budget requestt$3.54 billion
_\tBudget request for Israelt$1.98 billion
_\tBudget request for Egyptt$1.3 billion
_\tBudget request for Jordan\t$75 million


*\t

The Economic Support Fund (ESF) promotes economic and political stability in areas strategically important to the US. It is not intended for military usage, but allows the recipient government to free up other money, therefore providing indirect military aid. Israel receives the largest single grant of the Near East budget, which alone is 79% of the total ESF request.

ESF Budget Request, FY 2001t
_Total budget requestt
_$2.313 billion
_\t
Budget request for Near Eastt
_$1.828 billion, including:
\t
Israel\t
_$840 million
_\t
Egypt\t
_$150 million
_\t
WB/GS\t
$100 million

Furthermore:

*\t

18 of the 92 pending arms sales transfers in the year 2000 were to Israel;
*\t

Israel has the worlds largest fleet of F-16s outside the US, currently possessing 200 jets -- with a further 102 on order with American manufacturer Lockheed Martin;
*\t

In June 2001 Israel again requested $800 million in supplementary US aid. This was originally pledged to cover the cost of the Israeli withdrawal from south Lebanon in other words, Israel was being paid for complying with international law. As Israel re-requests this package, administration officials have considered linking it to the implementation of the Mitchell Report, again effectively paying Israel to comply with international standards;9


Charitable Aid

Private donations to American charities initially constituted one quarter of Israels budget. Today, it is estimated that these tax-deductible donations exceed $1.5 billion per year. The ability of Americans to make what amounts to tax deductible contributions to a foreign government does not exist for any other country.

US aid to Israel: A violation of US law

US law prohibits the President from providing military aid to any country that engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognised human rights.10 Under the 1967 US Arms Export Control Act, it is illegal to use US weapons to carry out extra-judicial killings. This act stipulates that weapons be sold to friendly countries solely for internal security and legitimate defence.

*\t

Since September 2000, the Israeli army has used attack helicopters, tanks and F-16 missiles to target Palestinian civilians, homes, forces, buildings and in demonstrations. In its Human Rights Report, the US State Department declared that Israeli army actions were an excessive use of force, noting that the Israeli forces used live ammunition, even when they were not in imminent danger, and that the Israeli military shelled PA institutions and Palestinian civilian areas in response to individual Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians or settlers.
*\t

The Israeli governments policies in the occupied Palestinian territories have been condemned by human rights organisations worldwide. The Israeli armys excessive use of force towards Palestinian civilians and its policy of state assassinations violate international human rights law. In supplying military aid to such a state, the US is violating its own laws.
_


1 CIA World Factbook, July 2001
2 Zunes, Stephen, The Strategic Function of US Aid to Israel (Washington Report on the Middle East December 2002)
3 ibid.
4 Washington Report on the Middle East December 2002
5 Ibid, as of 1 November 1997.
6 Ibid.
7 Foreign Military Training and DOD engagements, Activities of Interest, vol. 1, (fiscal year 1999-2000), Joint Report to Congress, March 1, 2001. Full text available through Federation of American Scientists website
8 US promises Israel $2.16 billion military aid 2004, Reuters, 21 November 2002
9 The Jerusalem Post, 28/6/01
10 22 USC 2304(a)

Why does America give this degree of aid to what is now a rogue nation with a war criminal as its leader, while we are supposed to be fighting a war against terrorism?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #99 of 260
The Palestinians they are fighting aren't terrorists now? Isn't that one-sided. You, yourself, are guilty of what you accuse others of here. Welcome to the group.
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #100 of 260
Quote:
Israeli army helicopter kills at least 20 protestors with missiles...


So what were the protestors doing with those missles?


In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #101 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Let's just break this down.

You've no problem with tanks firing 'warning shots,' with innocent people getting killed in multiples of innocent Israelis, with even the zoo getting trashed?

Is there anything that the IDF could do that worry you? Anything?


When did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth. So YOU must have no problem with people parading around with bags full of dead Jew body parts. You're a sick-o.
post #102 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
To level any criticism of Israel is so politically incorrect that officials don't dare do so in public. "Holocaust denier" or "anti-semitic" accusations have a similar stigma to being branded a pedophile, and that's what people are so afraid of that a balanced discussion of the Israel-Palestine conflict cannot happen.

Israel has all the ace cards, from unconditional US funding of their military (
read terrorist) activities, possessing the worlds 4th largest stash of WMD, having wars fought for their benefit by the US, as well as being secure in the knowledge that they are immune to criticism because of what happened 60 years ago.



Why does America give this degree of aid to what is now a rogue nation with a war criminal as its leader, while we are supposed to be fighting a war against terrorism?

Hey SJO be fail and balanced and give us the details on the aid the US gives the Palestinians.
post #103 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Hey SJO be fail and balanced and give us the details on the aid the US gives the Palestinians.

http://usinfo.state.gov/mena/Archive...27-646362.html

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-20-2004-51932.asp

Quote:
For the first time in the history of U.S.-Palestinian relationship, the U.S. has directly given the Palestinian Authority chaired by Yassar Arafat, over $20 million on July 16, 2004. This is part of multi-million dollar package of aid to Palestinian communities to be used for repairing and maintaining roads, public buildings, and power, water and sewage lines damaged in years of fighting with Israel.

$20 million by July 16, 2004. Wow! Naturally, a token gesture is far better PR than nothing, and there is plenty of reference to this deal in the media. What will $20 million buy? Just for perspective one F-15 fighter costs $55 million. But make no mistake, most US 'aid' to Palestine is delivered by Israeli jets and helicopters. Destroy those villages to save them.

There is a strange typo later in the second link, where the national security adviser is referred to as MR Rice....

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #104 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
Any reasonable parent would know that bringing them along to such an event is patently unsafe. Would you dress up your own infant in a mock suicide bomber outfit and then drop them off in the middle of an ensuing riot?

Tulkas wasn't talking about the march where people were blown to bits by helicopter missles and tank rounds. Your analogy doesn't work at all so please try again or admit you were wrong.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #105 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
I was unaware that NRA and political rallies in the US end up in a movement to charge police/security forces with guns brandished. Usually they are imobile and the activities are clearly notified and scheduled. OTOH, a roving mob with live firearms is never an ingredient for a positive outcome.

Show some proof that this rally we're discussing ended up with a movement charging police/security forces with guns brandished. Make sure that this proof includes proof that the territory discussed was under Israeli control rather than Palestinian control. Also make sure you can prove this was a roving mob with live firearms. Can you give any support, not even proof, that this was the case? And can you support the idea that people should not and are not able to peaceably assemble? Does brandishing a gun mean you're not peaceable assembling? How many people at an NRA rally carry guns?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #106 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
Neither do the absurd examples that are being brought up here, seemingly typified with missing specific contexts ("stealth bulldozers", for example). I'd almost have to say you are deliberately putting us on Onion style with these premises.

I haven't mentioned 'stealth bulldozers' so don't create a straw man argument. Attack my ideas, not those that agree with me. I've laid out two very simple but very strong arguments. I don't think you'll be able to counter either. If you can't honestly do that, then please retract your earlier statements.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #107 of 260
Yes, as soon as these sorts of arguments aren't coming from SJO's keyboard, you are all about crying, "foul".

The response to your statements is simple. Prove that the rally was not. You are welcome to retract your statements, as well. Shouldn't you be busy reinterpreting people's ideas and summarily calling them racist (since they are not in agreement with your own ideas)?
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #108 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Yes!

Europe condemns the suicide bombings but you choose to ignore it. If you acknowledge it, your argument is completely false so instead you pretend. Your fantasy about the region doesn't jive with reality.

Condemns it and does nothing. Europe would have been content condemning the holocaust and Rowanda...hollow words.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #109 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
So you consider a one year old 'involved' and complicit in the intifada? When their parents dresses them up, you consider them a valid target? That's sick in the head.

where did you get that from? SJO said the media ignores the Palestian children. I simply answered with the fact that part of the reason is that Arafat requested the western media not shown armed children, and the obliged. You righteous idignation is a bit over blown.
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge

And when people bring guns to an NRA rally in Colorado, or a political rally in Texas, are they valid targets as well?

No. But, people who purposely place their children in harms way must take some of the blame if they are harmed.
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge

You can try to justify things but they still don't make sense. Even if someone, or many people, in that rally were carrying guns you can't simply kill them. They're on their own land, in a legal gathering, not attacking anyone. You can't kill people for that. And if for some reason they started shooting, you still can't kill them with tank rounds and missles. No matter how much you want to do that, it's illegal. It's no better than Dachau.

You are correct. I beleive they did not mean to fire into the crowd, but into an open field and an abandoned building as warning shots. But, of course, I am a naive, blind supporter or Israel, and they must actually be lying.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #110 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Sorry, I meant "Israeli" government.

np. We'll just assume it was a freudian slip.

Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
They are acting as any other government would? Bull. Any other government that shot civilians with missiles from attack helicopters,

The entire country is a war zone. Every other country that ever engaged in a war inflicted civilian casualties. The results will be higher in war zones where the militants hide and are suported by the civilian population.
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton

bulldozed homes that were legally owned property, erected barriers on public land to "keep out" unwanted ethnicities would be internationally condemned (except the US of course).

The homes that are targetted are targetted with reason. Usually, they are owned by families of bombers. The barrier has nothing to do with stopping unwanted ethnicities. It stops murderous suicide bombers of all races.

Quote:
Originally posted by tonton

The Israeli government and Hamas are both terrorist organizations.

Well, you are half right.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #111 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
I've never seen so many racists in my life. They clearly think that the [Arabs] are better than the [Jews], even though both sides keep killing eachother. When the [Jews] kill innocent [arabs], they are outraged, but when the [arabs] kill innocent [jews] Palestinians are just "freedom fighters".


Quote:
Originally posted by tonton

Now as far as who started this freaking war... Israel stole their land. STOLE IT.

Overly vague...when?
Now as far as who stared this freaking war...Arabs stole their land. STOLE IT. Oh, they also tried to ethnically cleanse the area. An accusation often thrown at Israel too..of course if that were true, and they put as much effort into it as the Arabs did, their wouldn't be a war right now..just an Israel.

Quote:
Originally posted by tonton

And then you say "but the negotiations" (whine whine whine). I say again. Let's say Israel stole California from YOU and after decades of negotiation finally told you you could have the Mojave desert but only if you agree to drop any further claim for more territory. Let's say Israel decided to bulldoze your HOME at 4 in the morning. Like you wouldn't be pissed and try any means necessary to stop the bulldozers...


Well, what if the Native Americans stole California. Would the aboriginal people of the area be accused of stealing it, especially if the UN approved, no created, the conditions for the transfer of the land to the Natives?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #112 of 260
Quote:
The response to your statements is simple. Prove that the rally was not.

Asking someone to prove a negative is fatally flawed, logically....as good as meaningless. In criminal court cases (in democracies), the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt, rather than on the defendant to prove innocence, and for good reason. For the same reason, asking S.H. to prove that he had no WMD was an impossible request, whether he did, or didn't.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #113 of 260
Well, that explains how easily SH lead you by the nose. The more practical and functionality-minded among us know that such evidence can be offered via unobstructed inspections and proper/comprehensive documentation- "everything" accounted for and inventoried. Political waffling to "save face" in lieu of full disclosure is just not going to cut it here.
Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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Lauren Sanchez? That kinda hotness is just plain unnatural.
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post #114 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
All the more reason to indicate your neglect in giving them a home vs. moaning and whining until the Israel situation "works itself out". It's all empty words until you step up to the plate to put actions behind those words.

I don't know how you come about equating "adopt a family" with "ethnic cleansing". In bunge's logic, you might be a racist.

They have homes. you seem to think it's okay to drive them away from these homes. Systematically. Which is by definition ethnic cleansing.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #115 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
I don't think you get the "gag". Yeah, keep looking for it. I think it is on page 23.

It's not in any major photojournalist outlet, as far as I can tell. So I'd like artman to tell where he got it. And if indeed it is from that rally at all.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #116 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
Overly vague...when?
Now as far as who stared this freaking war...Arabs stole their land. STOLE IT. Oh, they also tried to ethnically cleanse the area. An accusation often thrown at Israel too..of course if that were true, and they put as much effort into it as the Arabs did, their wouldn't be a war right now..just an Israel.


Well, what if the Native Americans stole California. Would the aboriginal people of the area be accused of stealing it, especially if the UN approved, no created, the conditions for the transfer of the land to the Natives?

woah!?! ... what have you been reading. You used to be somewhat fair minded...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #117 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
But, people who purposely place their children in harms way must take some of the blame if they are harmed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
The entire country is a war zone.

So by virtue of being in "Palestine" it's your fault. That's what you're saying and that makes no sense. You're born there so you'll be fired upon by tanks. Rethink your words.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #118 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Randycat99
The response to your statements is simple. Prove that the rally was not.

Because of the Geneva Convention I don't have to. It isn't legal to use tank fire on individuals, even armed ones. Fancy that.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #119 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
So by virtue of being in "Palestine" it's your fault. That's what you're saying and that makes no sense. You're born there so you'll be fired upon by tanks. Rethink your words.

No, being in palestine means they are in palestine. They live in a war torn country and it is dangerous, that is true. However, there are those that purposely place their children even more at risk, greatly so, and you find that practice ok...nice.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #120 of 260
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
No, being in palestine means they are in palestine. They live in a war torn country and it is dangerous, that is true. However, there are those that purposely place their children even more at risk, greatly so, and you find that practice ok...nice.

......the victim repeatedly bashed his face against a soldiers fist causing severe bruising to the knuckles whilst several other suspects provocatively placed themselves in danger by insisting on being Palestinians.

In one disgraceful case of malicious sabotage several people deliberately caused wanton damage to an Israeli missile by obstructing its flightpath with their bodies.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
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