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Michael Moore - Fahrenheit 9/11 (general discussion - merged)

post #1 of 407
Thread Starter 
http://www.fahrenheit911.com/trailer/
Edmund William White
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Edmund William White
http://djedwhite.com
ewwhite@mac.com
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post #2 of 407
The site is getting hammered. Just keep reloading the page until it has enough bandwidth to show you the trailer.

As for Michael Moore, I like him, but am quite disappointed he is supporting John Kerry, a Bush-lite in almost all respects. It's logically contradictory.
post #3 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
As for Michael Moore, I like him, but am quite disappointed he is supporting John Kerry, a Bush-lite in almost all respects. It's logically contradictory.

You'd rather have him support some protest candidate who can't win, who can only help Bush? That would be logically contradictory.
We were once so close to heaven
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Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #4 of 407
Michael Moore is an idiotic hack and a fraud.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Michael Moore is an idiotic hack and a fraud.

Well, there you have it. This insightful comment has wrapped up the whole thread, so we might as well just lock the thread and go home.

Well, unless someone has anything of substance to add.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #6 of 407
Oh yay, the latest Distortiomentary from the Slantmeister himself. Cannes winner LOL. Of course! Yet another big back patting fest for his half-truths and creative editing, I'm sure. What a joke.

Can't view the trailer yet. But apparently...

Quote:
From Moorewatch:

THE FIRST POINT MOORE MAKES IS A LIE.

We ALL know this trailer could have been edited for posting online as late as yesterday._ Richard Clarke has already said he was the one who approved the flight.

Why is Moore still claiming that Bush authorized the flights on 9/11?_ He knows its not true._ Clarke is no fan of Bush._ He hates Bush, and we all know it.

http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx

Such a sensationalist. Can someone who's viewed it verify thats what he claims?
bah!
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bah!
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post #7 of 407
why isn't this trailer at www.apple.com/quicktime/trailers/ ???

there would be no bandwidth problem...
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post #8 of 407
Predictable whining. At least Moore isn't spewing his "lies" on radio or television EVERY day like Rush Limbaugh and O'Liely to name but 2. Ahh, the irony is pretty thick here. Brilliant!

Edit: just got through 1/3 of the trailer and Moore seems to have some sort of document with Bush's name on it re: the flights out of the US.

I bet you Limbaugh fans are causing the bandwidth problems.
post #9 of 407
post #10 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
Predictable whining. At least Moore isn't spewing his "lies" on radio or television EVERY day like Rush Limbaugh and O'Liely to name but 2. Ahh, the irony is pretty thick here. Brilliant!

Edit: just got through 1/3 of the trailer and Moore seems to have some sort of document with Bush's name on it re: the flights out of the US.

I bet you Limbaugh fans are causing the bandwidth problems.

Hmm...doesn't sound like whining to me.

Michael Moore is an established and documented liar. Have we not seen the fabricated interview story (re: Fred Barnes)? He orchestrated the publicity stunt with Disney for his own gain.

http://www.mooreexposed.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/


It amazes me that while many of you run around posting "Bush Lied! Rumsfeld Lied! Powell Lied! Rice Lied! Cheney LIED!".....you can't or or won't see the overwhelming evidence of Moore's blatant and obvious deception. It's not even in question.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #11 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Hmm...doesn't sound like whining to me.

Michael Moore is an established and documented liar. Have we not seen the fabricated interview story (re: Fred Barnes)? He orchestrated the publicity stunt with Disney for his own gain.

http://www.mooreexposed.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/


It amazes me that while many of you run around posting "Bush Lied! Rumsfeld Lied! Powell Lied! Rice Lied! Cheney LIED!".....you can't or or won't see the overwhelming evidence of Moore's blatant and obvious deception. It's not even in question.

Don't you get it? It's not a lie when a liberal/democrat does it, it is for the greater good of all people. So it;s OK.

Those are just the rules.

They call anything that comes from the white house a lie, simply because of where it originates from.

Follow the rules, will ya?

Edit:Oh yeah, any type of proof that you have or any links you have will be dismissed because your sources are Bus-loving, Neo-con sites, therefore are not credible.
post #12 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
"Bush Lied! Rumsfeld Lied! Powell Lied! Rice Lied! Cheney LIED!".....you can't or or won't see the overwhelming evidence of Moore's blatant and obvious deception. It's not even in question.

Which of these things is not like the others? Which of them does not belong?

Bush Rumsfeld Powell Rice Cheney Moore

Come on. This isn't really that hard.
post #13 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
The site is getting hammered. Just keep reloading the page until it has enough bandwidth to show you the trailer.

As for Michael Moore, I like him, but am quite disappointed he is supporting John Kerry, a Bush-lite in almost all respects. It's logically contradictory.

Hey Mods, can I somehow drop the word Baffoon in here without getting you upset?

Maybe if I wrap in this term: History's Baffoon . . .?

Or: Baffoon of wannabe radicalism?

how about: Quelle Baffoonerie?!?!

or even: Look at the Bafffoon in the window! Safari window!

Or perhaps in a little dialogue:

X -"BAFFOON!!"
Y -"Gasundheit!!"

?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #14 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
It amazes me that while many of you run around posting "Bush Lied! Rumsfeld Lied! Powell Lied! Rice Lied! Cheney LIED

It amazes me that you are equating the alleged lying of a movie maker and author with the alleged lying of the people who are running this country.
post #15 of 407
Bush - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my base"
snicker snicker

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #16 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Hmm...doesn't sound like whining to me.

Your first post, certainly does. edit: and Naples just came out to further prove the case.
Quote:
Michael Moore is an established and documented liar. Have we not seen the fabricated interview story (re: Fred Barnes)? He orchestrated the publicity stunt with Disney for his own gain.

Documented eh? Ok, I'm not gonna defend a moviemaker. Couldn't care less. I will definitely go watch the movie and then make MY own decision and not let someone else do the thinking for me. You might want to try that sometime. Could prove enlightening.
Quote:
It amazes me that while many of you run around posting "Bush Lied! Rumsfeld Lied! Powell Lied! Rice Lied! Cheney LIED!".....you can't or or won't see the overwhelming evidence of Moore's blatant and obvious deception. It's not even in question.

It's even more amazing that you can't see the diffence between someone who makes movies and people who actually affect hundreds of millions of lives with their lies and policies.
post #17 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
They call anything that comes from the white house a lie, simply because of where it originates from.

Well, that's overgeneralizing. This White House does have a very good record of....twisting and spinning, if not outright manufacturing things. So let's keep praising them for that amazing ability.
Quote:
Edit:Oh yeah, any type of proof that you have or any links you have will be dismissed because your sources are Bus-loving, Neo-con sites, therefore are not credible.

Now this is just weak. Attacking the public transportation system? You elitist bastahds!
You know Naples, maybe if you hadn't dug up some of the weakest, silliest and most ridiculous websites(and assumptions in some of those cases)as sources in the past, your "sources" would at least be given some consideration.
Gonna go to CBC to see who's been murdered this week.
post #18 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Edit:Oh yeah, any type of proof that you have or any links you have will be dismissed because your sources are Bus-loving, Neo-con sites, therefore are not credible.

I have no problem with sources who love busses.
post #19 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Bush - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my base"
snicker snicker


Now that's not fair! You and Moore are taking Bush out of context! I'm... I'm sure that there's some context where this was a perfectly fine thing to say.

Like, for example, um... sucking up to the rich and powerful whose interests are your primary interest. Yeah! Did you ever think about that? Huh? Huh?

I mean, come on, give a guy break.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #20 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Bush - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my base"
snicker snicker


I bet you don't even know where that quote came from and the context that surrounded it. You probably don't care, right?
post #21 of 407
I'll chime in and say Moore isn't know to have a pension for the truth in my neck of the woods (West side of Detroit). Roger And Me and Bowling both had inconsistencies that locals knew/know about--and I'm not talking about an incorrect date or name. I wont defend Moore's documentaries in the least as factual representations. Does he present his point of view in a compelling way? Yes. If you watch one of his films holding the "I Believe" button then his form of demagoguery is effective. Is Moore's world-view grounded in reality? Not all that often IMO. Moral of the story, watch a M.Moore flick with a grain, or three for that matter, of salt. Know that in there somewhere may be a point and a nugget of truth. Also know that the layer(s) of presentation and factual BS surrounding the nugget may be quite extensive.

If Moore were a research scientist then his career would have been over long ago. Fortunately Moore is an entertainer (like Gallagher) where peer review and fact checking are not nearly as critical as presentation. There are many flicks put out by Follywood "based" in fact which couldn't be further from the truth (The Day After springs to mind).

Personally, I'll probably let my wife drag me to see Fahrenheit but I'll go in knowing Moore has fibbed and misled in the past. I'll go in suspecting Moore is presenting the film as a partisan attack.

Just my 2 cents. Good day all.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #22 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I bet you don't even know where that quote came from and the context that surrounded it. You probably don't care, right?

Well, here's a little more for ya Napels. I know where it came from the question is do you?

"This is an impressive crowd. The haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base."
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #23 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Bush - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my base"
snicker snicker


I know the suspense is killing you so here:

Excerpts from the annual Al Smith dinner in New York.

"Thank you all very much. This is an impressive crowd-- the haves and the have-mores. (Laughter) Some people call you the elite. I call you my base. (Laughter) The woman I just ran into coming off the elevator, she said, "I'd like to give you some advice on what to wear." I said, "well, I appreciate that." She said, "white tie is fine, but you need some more earth tones." (Laughter) Perfectly nice woman. I think her name is Naomi or something like that. The odd thing was she handed me a bill for $15,000. (Laughter) Can you imagine? Sure, a grown man paying $15,000 for somebody to tell you what to wear? Heck, $15,000 these days gets you a sleepover in the Lincoln Bedroom. (Laughter) (cheers and applause) This evening does have a special meaning. The story of Al Smith's historic run for the presidency is truly inspiring. It gives me hope that in America, it's still not possible for a fellow named Al to be the commander in chief. (Laughter) And I see Bill Buckley is here tonight-- fellow Yale man. (Applause) We go way back, and we have a lot in common. Bill wrote a book at Yale; I read one. (Laughter) He founded the Conservative Party. I started a few parties myself. (Laughter) Bill was certain he won every debate he had. Well, I know how he feels. (Laughter) It's been a pleasure to be with you all tonight. Your excellency, Laura and I would like you to come and visit our family next year. I'll send you the address as soon as I know what it is. Thank you very much, God bless. (Applause)"
post #24 of 407
The ironic thing is this comment:

Quote:
Heck, $15,000 these days gets you a sleepover in the Lincoln Bedroom.

was ment as a humorous attack against Slick Willy... Bush is now doing this very thing--letting rangers sleep over in the Lincoln Bedroom.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #25 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Bush - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my base"
snicker snicker


Kerry - "some people call you the Elite. . . I call you my wife/sugarmama."

So the lesson learned boys and girls is this... You don't have to suck up to the rich and powerful when you keep marrying them instead.


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #26 of 407
Quote:
Bill wrote a book at Yale; I read one.

Jesus...I can't believe that guy is, even if only nominally, in charge of the most powerful country on the planet.
post #27 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
The ironic thing is this comment:



was ment as a humorous attack against Slick Willy... Bush is now doing this very thing--letting rangers sleep over in the Lincoln Bedroom.

So he is charging 15 grand to sleep in the lincoln bedroom? Rangers? Like army rangers?

Proof?

You know that many people have slept there and did not have to pay for it.
post #28 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Does he present his point of view in a compelling way? Yes. If you watch one of his films holding the "I Believe" button then his form of demagoguery is effective. Is Moore's world-view grounded in reality? Not all that often IMO. Moral of the story, watch a M.Moore flick with a grain, or three for that matter, of salt. Know that in there somewhere may be a point and a nugget of truth. Also know that the layer(s) of presentation and factual BS surrounding the nugget may be quite extensive.

Good advice for evaluating any sources of information, especially very partisan sources, even (and perhaps especially sometimes) if they are sources you'd tend to agree with.

Does anyone know of any articles critical of Moore's accuracy, but which have less of an obvious axe to grind, and less of an obviously stupid slant than, oh, say, stuff found at URL like http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/?

For those who have found errors, or even lies, in Moore's work, to what extent would you say those things are deliberate vs. careless, substantive and damaging to the structure of his case vs. incidental, etc.?
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #29 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Jesus...I can't believe that guy is, even if only nominally, in charge of the most powerful country on the planet.

I saw this thing on TV and it was not a serious thing, you do realize that?

Oh wait, no you probably don't, sorry.
post #30 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So he is charging 15 grand to sleep in the lincoln bedroom? Rangers? Like army rangers?

Proof?

You know that many people have slept there and did not have to pay for it.

C'mon man!!! If you don't know what a Bush ranger is then you needs to lurke to political discussions rather than respond to them...

Here I'll cut and paste because to get this from the AP directly will cost$$$. If you look for yourself though you'll find a free version.
Quote:
Published on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 by the Associated Press



Bush Fund-Raisers Among Overnight Guests in the Lincoln Bedroom



by Sharon Theimer


_



WASHINGTON - President Bush opened the White House and Camp David to dozens of overnight guests last year, including foreign dignitaries, family friends and at least nine of his biggest campaign fund-raisers, documents show.

In all, Bush and first lady Laura Bush have invited at least 270 people to stay at the White House and at least the same number to overnight at the Camp David retreat since moving to Washington in January 2001, according to lists the White House provided The Associated Press.

Some guests spent a night in the Lincoln Bedroom, historic quarters that gained new fame in the Clinton administration amid allegations that Democrats rewarded major donors like Hollywood heavyweights Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand with accommodations there.

That scandal and Bush's criticism of it is one of the reasons the White House identifies guests. In a debate with Vice President Al Gore in October 2000, Bush said: "I believe they've moved that sign, `The buck stops here,' from the Oval Office desk to `The buck stops here' on the Lincoln Bedroom. And that's not good for the country."

Los Angeles attorney Donald Etra stayed at the Bush White House several times and at Camp David once. Etra, a Yale classmate of President Bush, said he and his wife were invited as friends, not because they each gave Bush $1,000 in 2000.

"Friendship comes first, donations come second," Etra said.

Describing a stay in the Lincoln Bedroom, he said it was almost impossible to sleep.

"It is so unbelievably exciting and unbelievable that you are staying in the White House," he said. "One hesitates to put a coffee cup down on the coffee table because there's an original copy of the Emancipation Proclamation under glass."

Bush's overnight guest roster is virtually free of celebrities pro golfer Ben Crenshaw is the biggest name but not of campaign supporters.

At least nine of Bush's biggest fund-raisers appear on the latest list of White House overnight guests, covering June 2002 through December 2003, and-or on the Camp David list, which covers last year. They include:



Mercer Reynolds, an Ohio financier, former Bush partner in the Texas Rangers baseball team and former ambassador to Switzerland. Reynolds is leading Bush's campaign fund-raising effort. He was a guest at the White House and the Camp David retreat in Maryland's Catoctin Mountains.


Brad Freeman, a venture capitalist who is leading Bush's California fund-raising effort, has raised at least $200,000 for his re-election campaign and is also a major Republican Party fund-raiser. Freeman stayed at the White House.


Roland Betts, who raised at least $100,000 for Bush in 2000, was a Bush fraternity brother at Yale and a Texas Rangers partner. Betts stayed at the White House and Camp David.


William DeWitt, a Bush partner in the oil business and Texas Rangers who has raised at least $200,000 for Bush's re-election effort, stayed at the White House.


James Francis, who headed the Bush campaign's 2000 team of $100,000-and-up volunteer fund-raisers and was a Bush appointee in Texas when Bush was governor. Francis was a White House guest.


Joseph O'Neill, an oilman and childhood friend who introduced Bush to Laura Bush and raised at least $100,000 for each of Bush's presidential campaigns, stayed at the White House.


Colorado Gov. Bill Owens and New York Gov. George Pataki, who each raised at least $200,000 for Bush's re-election campaign, were White House guests.


James Langdon, who raised at least $100,000 for Bush, is a Washington attorney specializing in international oil and gas transactions. Langdon, whose clients include the Russian oil company Lukoil, is a member of Bush's foreign intelligence advisory board and served on Bush's 2000 presidential transition team on energy policy.




"Some of these guests are old classmates, some of them have been friends of theirs for many, many years," White House spokeswoman Erin Healy said. "They enjoy the opportunity to spend time with them."

Langdon, who stayed at Camp David a few weeks before Russian President Vladimir Putin did last September, said Bush's invitations to him and the other fund-raisers differ from the allegations of the Clinton years.

"Of course I'm a fund-raiser I support him in every way I can. But my relationship with him and his wife and his family spans more than three decades," said Langdon, who grew up in Texas and was a Bush friend since Bush's early years there. "I certainly don't need to be rewarded with a trip to Camp David for doing what I'm doing."

Several Bush relatives visited the White House and Camp David, including former President George H.W. Bush and former first lady Barbara Bush. Visiting world leaders stayed at Camp David, including British Prime Minister Tony Blair and King Abdullah II of Jordan.

Guests do not have to reimburse the government for their stays.


© Copyright 2004 The Associated Press
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #31 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Jesus...I can't believe that guy is, even if only nominally, in charge of the most powerful country on the planet.

Bush uses a lot of self-deprecating humor. What is wrong with being able to tell and enjoy a joke? I mean regardless of party, we should be able to hear a joke from whoever is president. Many speakers open with a good joke to gain interest.

Sad...

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #32 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
C'mon man!!! If you don't know what a Bush ranger is then you needs to lurke to political discussions rather than respond to them...

Here I'll cut and paste because to get this from the AP directly will cost$$$. If you look for yourself though you'll find a free version.

So you see NO difference between this and what clinton did?

No, you probably wouldn't.

Hint: there is a quick mention of the difference in that article. You might want to slow down a bit. Just a suggestion.
post #33 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Bush uses a lot of self-deprecating humor. What is wrong with being able to tell and enjoy a joke? I mean regardless of party, we should be able to hear a joke from whoever is president. Many speakers open with a good joke to gain interest.

Sad...

Nick

Thing is he wasn't president at the time. The date was 10/19/2000. I don't know, it seems like an off color remark for a wanna-be president. Humor is well and good but this is a little over the edge:

"This is an impressive crowd. The haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base."
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #34 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
C'mon man!!! If you don't know what a Bush ranger is then you needs to lurke to political discussions rather than respond to them...

Here I'll cut and paste because to get this from the AP directly will cost$$$. If you look for yourself though you'll find a free version.

Oh yeah, wasn't it you that accused me of being a partisan hack or something like that?

Does this mean that you have changed your mind?

Probably not.
post #35 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman So the lesson learned boys and girls is this... You don't have to suck up to the rich and powerful when you keep marrying them instead.

Yawn. That was funny. Besides, marrying a rich guy or gal is quite American.

Naples, not army Rangers....LMAO. I hope you were just playing dumb there.
post #36 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So you see NO difference between this and what clinton did?

No, you probably wouldn't.

Hint: there is a quick mention of the difference in that article. You might want to slow down a bit. Just a suggestion.

No, there is no difference. Both men used the Lincoln bedroom as a reward for donors.

PS. I pulled the story so quickly because I have read it and knew where/when to look. You point out where the article illustrates a difference there killer.


There's this:

Quote:
Some guests spent a night in the Lincoln Bedroom, historic quarters that gained new fame in the Clinton administration amid allegations that Democrats rewarded major donors like Hollywood heavyweights Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand with accommodations there.

which is later followed by this:

Quote:
"Some of these guests are old classmates, some of them have been friends of theirs for many, many years," White House spokeswoman Erin Healy said. "They enjoy the opportunity to spend time with them."

Note the qualifier 'some'. That's an important word because it leads one to think that all things are above the board with the Bush slumber parties which is probably not the whole story. Pandering to his Rangers is no better than pandering to Follywood donors.


[edit] fixed quote tag and spelling mistake
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #37 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Oh yeah, wasn't it you that accused me of being a partisan hack or something like that?

Does this mean that you have changed your mind?

Probably not.

No it means you are a partisna hack who doesn't follow the news that's all.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #38 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Thing is he wasn't president at the time. The date was 10/19/2000. I don't know, it seems like an off color remark for a wanna-be president. Humor is well and good but this is a little over the edge:

"This is an impressive crowd. The haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base."

So you acted as if you knew the circumstances surrounding this quote and it sound like you don't.

It is an annual POLITICAL dinner and this one was attended by Al Gore, Hillary, GWB, and Rick Lazio among others. here is Al's remarks. Pretty funny stuff.

VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE: I'm honored to be at this year's Al Smith Memorial Foundation dinner. This dinner represents a hallowed and important tradition, which I actually did invent. (Laughter) And, of course, I want to acknowledge FEMA Director James Lee Witt, who accompanied me here tonight. (Laughter) We travel everywhere together. (Laughter) Please accept my apology for interrupting your meal. Since this is a special occasion, I wanted to mark it by getting all of my interruptions out of the way before Governor Bush speaks. (Laughter) I know some people are going to keep accusing me of exaggeration, so let me be clear. Those people seek nothing less than the complete destruction of the American way of life. (Laughter) (Applause) It's absolutely clear. I never exaggerate. You can ask Tipper or any one of our 11 daughters. (Laughter) Another thing that bugs me is when people say I am just a wonk, obsessed with policy detail. Well, like some many Americans, I like to just kick back and relax and watch television for relaxation. One of my favorite shows is "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" Well, it should really be called "Who Wants to be After Taxes a $651,437.70 Person?" (Laughter) Of course, that's under my plan. Under Governor Bush's plan... (Laughter) it would be "Who Wants to be After Taxes a $701,587.80 Person?" (Laughter) This is a fund-raiser, isn't it? Whenever I see everybody dressed the same way, my antenna goes straight up. (Laughter) I also make you this simple pledge: If I am entrusted with the presidency, I may not always be the funniest President, but I will never sigh to you. Thank you. God bless you, and God bless America. ( Applause )
post #39 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Oh yeah, wasn't it you that accused me of being a partisan hack or something like that?

Nah, it only proves that too often you come to defend your hero without not knowing much of what you're talking about.
post #40 of 407
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
No, there is no difference. Both men used the Lincoln bedroom as a reward for donors.

PS. I pulled the story so quickly because I have read it and knew where/when to look. You point out where the article illustrates a difference there killer.


There's this:



which is later followed by this:



Note the qualifier 'some'. That's an important word because it leads one to think that all things are above the board with the Bush slumber parties which is probably not the whole story. Pandering to his Rangers is no better than pandering to Follywood donors.


[edit] fixed quote tag and spelling mistake

You are so smart and I am so dumb. I must be silly to think that this is the difference between the two administrations visa vi the LB:

"That scandal and Bush's criticism of it is one of the reasons the White House identifies guests."

It is a small and simple sentence, that is obviously why it appealed to me.
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