AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Michael Moore - Fahrenheit 9/11 (general discussion - merged)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Michael Moore - Fahrenheit 9/11 (general discussion - merged) - Page 4

post #121 of 407
6/10/04 at 12:28pm
http://www.saintpetersburgtimes.com/...ies_flig.shtml
Reply
Reply
post #122 of 407
6/10/04 at 12:47pm
From the reviews and the trailer, it sounds as if Michael Moore has wimped out 100%. He hasn't even touched on the really gnarly stuff.

But history has been written, and if lies are repeated time after time, they become the established truth.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #123 of 407
6/10/04 at 1:53pm
What did he wimp out on?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #124 of 407
6/10/04 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
http://www.saintpetersburgtimes.com/...ies_flig.shtml

Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Originally posted by segovius
Why is it any more reasonable than Mossad or CIA or any of the other 'fringe loon' theories ?

Actually a belief in the Saudi connection is by definition an admission that Bush is lying and an accessory for the following reasons:

1) Evacuation of Bin Laden's family and other Saudi nationals immediately after 911. This must have had top-level authorisation as air space was clamped down and they were private chartered jets.

100% False. You have proven to me that you are full of lies and have no ability to question the utter bullshit that's fed to you. I can't believe people still repeat this utter crap LIE! (talk about "misinformed" )

100% stupid.
Reply
Reply
post #125 of 407
6/10/04 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Scott
Originally posted by segovius
Why is it any more reasonable than Mossad or CIA or any of the other 'fringe loon' theories ?

Actually a belief in the Saudi connection is by definition an admission that Bush is lying and an accessory for the following reasons:

1) Evacuation of Bin Laden's family and other Saudi nationals immediately after 911. This must have had top-level authorisation as air space was clamped down and they were private chartered jets.

Quote:
100% False. You have proven to me that you are full of lies and have no ability to question the utter bullshit that's fed to you. I can't believe people still repeat this utter crap LIE! (talk about "misinformed"

More of the Bush Administration's web of lies and deceit (read wacko conspiracy theories) re. 9-11.

http://www.saintpetersburgtimes.com/...ies_flig.shtml

The T.I.A. confirms that Saudis were most probably flown out of the country on Sept 13, 2001. The White House has denied it all along, but it's on the record.

Edited

apologies to the BB for feistiness



"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #126 of 407
6/10/04 at 8:12pm
The tone will change here right now. This and every thread will be locked, and members will be banned if need be.
Reply
Reply
post #127 of 407
6/10/04 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
What did he wimp out on?

It looks like pretty much everything. I haven't seen the movie yet, but according to the reviews (which have all been of the "rave" category so far it seems), he has concentrated on a tiny, miniscule portion of the disaster. And he had little choice in the matter: a movie covering all the major aspects of (just the day of) 9-11 would last several days to do it justice.

I cannot see even Michael Moore making a movie that dissects the official version of the events of that day, and putting them into harsh perspective, even using exclusively the regular, standard, corporate, household media sources, ignoring the wilder stuff from numerous independent media sources. Just doing that opens such a Pandora's box of anomalies, weirdnesses, inconsistencies and impossibilities that it would look like a classic case of "truth being stanger than fiction". And Moore is too much of a pragmatist to dare venture into an area where he would undoubtedly be accused of belonging to the "tinfoil hat" brigade.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #128 of 407
6/15/04 at 10:37am
A bit suprising considering the source, but nevertheless...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html
Reply
Reply
post #129 of 407
6/15/04 at 11:02am
this will go down like the liberal radio network,

big media push -> low numbers, <15m open -> media screaming about the success of this "truth seeker"

We all know what moore is, we all know that while no one watches the movie, the accadimy will give him the obligetory documentory award (not that there is any competition) and they will make damn sure that it is in the prime time slot so it makes the broadcast and vwala, another moore moment and the country gets yet another taste of what liberalisum is.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #130 of 407
6/15/04 at 12:03pm
Look at the post above you: it is very surprising from FOX.

It says that it is a very worthy film for both parties to watch . . . so why don't you, greer, stop assuming that you allready know that it is bad.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #131 of 407
6/16/04 at 12:44pm
Theres a bit of a scandal going on, re. an effort to suppress Michael Moore's movie Fahrenheit 911:

The website http://www.moveamericaforward.com has been campaigning to boycott the movie by lobbying theater owners to pull the movie.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGED76SI31.DTL
Move America forward claims to be a non partisan grassroots organization http://www.moveamericaforward.com/?Page=AboutUs but they are lying. Surprise, surprise, knock me over with a feather.....

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/m...rticle&sid=774

Quote:
The investigative Internet Web site WhatReallyHappened.com recently exposed Move America Forward website to be registered by the GOPs public relations firm of Russo Marsh & Rogers. Moreover, the About page at this site reveals the director and staff of Move America Forward are all diehard Republicans, anti-tax activists, and former legislative staffers.

Who are Russo Marsh & Rogers? They are a GOP consulting firm. Originally, in 2002, Ron Rogers teamed up with the Reagan era Lyn Nofziger and Ed Rollins for working on the gubernatorial campaign of Bill Simon.

Typically, Bush Republicans are not just cruel compassionate conservatives but they are also lazy and stupid. Clearly, it never occurred to them that their plot to suppress Moores movie could be uncovered by anyone who knows how to use WHOIS.

After WhatReallyHappened.com ran a WHOIS on MoveAmericaForward.com it discovered that the site was registered in the name of Russo Marsh & Rogers. WHOIS is a database, maintained by registries and registrars, which records domain name registrations on the Internet. Soon after this information was posted on the Web, the registrant name was modified to omit Russo Marsh & Rogers.
Putting it simply and accurately, Move America Forward is just another Republican dirty trick designed to smear Moore and intimidate move theater owners not to run his film

Is there no limit as to the arrogance, dishonesty and fraud perpetrated by this administration and its cohorts?Have they told the truth about anything, 9-11 included?

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #132 of 407
6/16/04 at 1:29pm
What's most disgusting about that whole thing is that they tried to hide!!!!

They changed their web-site registration name.

It IS really disgusting!

Censorship with all the trappings of 'patriotic decency' . . . but really strong-armed censhorship worthy of the MAFIA!!!

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #133 of 407
6/17/04 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
A bit suprising considering the source, but nevertheless...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html


Quote:
It turns out to be a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail.

Nice to see that some people's minds aren't completely closed. I'm sure that some of the Fox "commentators" will "balance" out this "fair" review by attacking Moore and/or the movie.
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #134 of 407
6/17/04 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Theres a bit of a scandal going on, re. an effort to suppress Michael Moore's movie Fahrenheit 911:

The website http://www.moveamericaforward.com has been campaigning to boycott the movie by lobbying theater owners to pull the movie.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGED76SI31.DTL
Move America forward claims to be a non partisan grassroots organization http://www.moveamericaforward.com/?Page=AboutUs but they are lying. Surprise, surprise, knock me over with a feather.....

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/m...rticle&sid=774



Is there no limit as to the arrogance, dishonesty and fraud perpetrated by this administration and its cohorts?Have they told the truth about anything, 9-11 included?


Sammi you are so funny. First you don't like the fact that these folks call themselves Republican and so it..... must be endorsed and actually actively perpetrated by the Bush administration. Hilarious.

Second, in your usual conspiritorial manner, you attempt to make it sound like someone is out to get us via hiding something. But as you yourself noted, they don't hide anything. You can find it via the WHOIS. You can find it plainly on their own pages. The call themselves conservative on their own pages. They just don't claim to be affiliated with the Republican party. That would make them just like...oh... MoveOn.org, NAACP, NOW, NRA, etc. All these groups have political leanings, but it doesn't mean they are exclusively associated with one political party.


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #135 of 407
6/17/04 at 6:27am
What I find interesting is that Moore had footage of what we are now calling torture months before any news organization, withheld that information and gets a free pass.

Apparently allowing suffering to continue for months is okay as long as you are going to enrich yourself with a documentary. Allowing torture to continue must be okay as long as you happen to be Michael Moore.

Or worse still, maybe Moore didn't consider it torture.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #136 of 407
6/17/04 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
What I find interesting is that Moore had footage of what we are now calling torture months before any news organization, withheld that information and gets a free pass.

Have you got a link for this?

And note that the contorted phrase "now calling torture" makes it sound like A) it isn't and never has been torture, and B) we changed our minds about what to call it at some point, neither of which are true as far as I can see.

Also, are you aware that the photos/footage (not Moore's) were released long after the investigations into the abuse started?
a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
Reply
a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
Reply
post #137 of 407
6/17/04 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
What I find interesting is that Moore had footage of what we are now calling torture months before any news organization, withheld that information and gets a free pass....

If he had stuff that the pentagon didn't and he with-held it, is that not treason?
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #138 of 407
6/17/04 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
If he had stuff that the pentagon didn't and he with-held it, is that not treason?

No, that's not treason.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #139 of 407
6/17/04 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Have you got a link for this?

And note that the contorted phrase "now calling torture" makes it sound like A) it isn't and never has been torture, and B) we changed our minds about what to call it at some point, neither of which are true as far as I can see.

Also, are you aware that the photos/footage (not Moore's) were released long after the investigations into the abuse started?

I have a couple of links.

Moore review

Quote:
The film shows American soldiers not in a prison but in the field, hooding an Iraqi, calling him Ali Baba, touching his genitals and posing for photos with him.

Also...

Moore explanation

I use the words "now calling torture" because obviously Moore must have not considered it torture at the time. I cannot imagine anyone cold hearted enough to sit on footage of torture for any period of time for any reason. Can you think of any good reason for doing this?

So the point is Moore must of thought it as non-torture or else he is cold hearted as hell. Especially since the footage helps him earn the almighty dollar.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #140 of 407
6/17/04 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
you attempt to make it sound like someone is out to get us via hiding something. But as you yourself noted, they don't hide anything. You can find it via the WHOIS.

They did try to hide the fact that they are a biased political organization.

They started the campaign to silence Moore under false pretenses, stating that they were a nonpartisan group of concerned citizens . . . then it came to the surface that they were in fact supported by a wealthy and powerful Republican PR group . ..

You don't call that devious?!?

I guess you would only call it bad if it were Dems doing it

But it does appear to have been a seriously BAD decision on oore's part to withhold footage of torture . . . if indeed he does have it.

I think He will have to release it now . . . I think it is his duty . . . what is he waiting for

his explaination makes a little sense, but the fact tht the seriousness of what the footage is supposed to reveal overrides the seriousness of the film and wouldn't evershadow it says that he needs to release it NOW.

Still, however, doesn't change a thing about the movie . . . which sounds like it should be seen . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #141 of 407
6/17/04 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
They did try to hide the fact that they are a biased political organization.

They started the campaign to silence Moore under false pretenses, stating that they were a nonpartisan group of concerned citizens . . . then it came to the surface that they were in fact supported by a wealthy and powerful Republican PR group . ..

You don't call that devious?!?

I guess you would only call it bad if it were Dems doing it

But it does appear to have been a seriously BAD decision on Moore's part to withhold footage of torture . . . if indeed he does have it.

I think He will have to release it now . . . I think it is his duty . . . what is he waiting for

his explaination makes a little sense, but the fact tht the seriousness of what the footage is supposed to reveal overrides the seriousness of the film and wouldn't evershadow it says that he needs to release it NOW.

Still, however, doesn't change a thing about the movie . . . which sounds like it should be seen . . .

You obviously cannot understand the difference between unbiased and nonpartisan. They can be very biased but still nonpartisan. I gave examples of a number of groups that meet this criteria on both the right and left.

Michael Moore's film can be a great film. However the fact that he did not immediately speak up about something he not only witnessed and knew about, but had footage to prove says something very bad about his motivations to me. I quoted from Roger Ebert the type of footage he has IN THE FILM. The footage isn't hidden. He doesn't need to release it because he has already done so via his film. The reality however is that toture continued that he knew about because he didn't care to speak out about it until he could make a buck by you seeing it in his film.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #142 of 407
6/17/04 at 12:57pm
You are wrong if you think it was 'because of the bucks' . . . clearly he wanted his movie to have a big impact and wanted to release it in such a way as to do so.

Biased vs partisan? clearly the group in question is extremely biased partisan group that felt that it needed to hide its origins.

Why would it hide?
It is like Rumsfeldt hiding the prisoner from the Red Cross, because they know that what they are doing is tasteless strong-arm politiking and borderline censorship strategy.

Maybe some of these people who are so 'non-partisan' might actually rethink there own ideas, and decide that energy is spent better in different endevours IF THEY SAW the movie before writing it off out of blind allegiance!!!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #143 of 407
6/17/04 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
You are wrong if you think it was 'because of the bucks' . . . clearly he wanted his movie to have a big impact and wanted to release it in such a way as to do so.

Biased vs partisan? clearly the group in question is extremely biased partisan group that felt that it needed to hide its origins.

Why would it hide?
It is like Rumsfeldt hiding the prisoner from the Red Cross, because they know that what they are doing is tasteless strong-arm politiking and borderline censorship strategy.

Maybe some of these people who are so 'non-partisan' might actually rethink there own ideas, and decide that energy is spent better in different endevours IF THEY SAW the movie before writing it off out of blind allegiance!!!

Pfflam, you can believe and delude yourself in whatever manner you choose to do so.

Just don't expect all of us to come along for the ride.

Now on the matter of Moore, Bush, torture and the Iraq war, answer me this, did you read the second, very progressive source I posted?

Moore's only rational for not mentioning it MONTHS before it came out is fear he would be seen a as publicity hound. The release of that information hurt both Bush and undermined support for the war. Both of these are stated objectives of Michael Moore. Moore is supposed to be in the business of telling the truth. Instead he claims fear of his reputation as a means of withholding the truth. Worse still he actually did act as a publicity hound with the whole Disney distribution nonsense right before Cannes. So he can tell us the truth about Disney a year after the fact, but withhold the truth about torture?

If you see this as being about anything else than more money for Michael Moore, you are blinding yourself to the possibility of the very truth he claims to support.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #144 of 407
6/17/04 at 1:24pm
If Moore is withholding footage of Iraqis being humiliated and/or tortured, I just don't see how that can be justified. Perhaps it was ignorance (which I doubt). But to conceal such things while making a documentary about coverups does say something...
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #145 of 407
6/17/04 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Pfflam, you can believe and delude yourself in whatever manner you choose to do so.

Just don't expect all of us to come along for the ride.

Now on the matter of Moore, Bush, torture and the Iraq war, answer me this, did you read the second, very progressive source I posted?

Moore's only rational for not mentioning it MONTHS before it came out is fear he would be seen a as publicity hound. The release of that information hurt both Bush and undermined support for the war. Both of these are stated objectives of Michael Moore. Moore is supposed to be in the business of telling the truth. Instead he claims fear of his reputation as a means of withholding the truth. Worse still he actually did act as a publicity hound with the whole Disney distribution nonsense right before Cannes. So he can tell us the truth about Disney a year after the fact, but withhold the truth about torture?

If you see this as being about anything else than more money for Michael Moore, you are blinding yourself to the possibility of the very truth he claims to support.

Nick

I don't think he is motivated by money over his political interests . . . just as I don't think that the Iraq war was simply for Halliburton or oil profits: both were ideologically driven.

if that is what you mean by 'deluding' myself . . . you need to get a better argument.

You should also make note that I AGREED with you as far as his being wrong in witholding the footage, and yes I read that article.

Now if you are referring to the issue of that well funded, biased and Partisan attack-dog PR company when you call me deluded . . . you should just say so . . . and also point out where my delusion comes in exactly?
They are just that, Biased, and Partisan and already well connected and well funded . . . so why did they try to hide their complicity with the anti-movie borderline-censorship tactics??!
and why lie about being a 'grassroots' organization?

Reminds me of that 'spontaneuos' support for Bush in Florida . . . where you could pause the demonstrations and name each memeber of the 'spontaneuos popular support crowd' and show that they were all party functionaries!!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #146 of 407
6/17/04 at 2:08pm
I don't know about you guys but I'm going to wait to actually see the movie before any more commentary. Anyone know if it's available online yet? (yes I'm going to see it in theater but I'm impatient! )
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #147 of 407
6/17/04 at 2:22pm
Hey, there was some disturbing footage of US soldiers raiding a house and beating the crap out of an old man filmed by the Associated Press and released 6 weeks before the Abu Ghraib scandal hit, at least according to this article:

http://alternet.org/story/18815/

Purportedly, this is the same footage used by Moore in Fahrenheit 911. So it was available to just about every news organization in the country, but the "liberal media" just ignored it!

Is that still treason, if every major media outlet in the US declined to show it?

We can also argue whether what happened in the article was torture, whether it was covered accurately (this is secondhand information) etc etc. But on the surface, it looks like our mainstream media has proved its worthlessness in covering anything but Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson yet again.
Dual 2Ghz G5, Single 2Ghz Xserve G5, Dual 1Ghz QS G4, Single 1.25Ghz MDD G4.
Reply
Dual 2Ghz G5, Single 2Ghz Xserve G5, Dual 1Ghz QS G4, Single 1.25Ghz MDD G4.
Reply
post #148 of 407
6/17/04 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
I don't think he is motivated by money over his political interests . . . just as I don't think that the Iraq war was simply for Halliburton or oil profits: both were ideologically driven.

if that is what you mean by 'deluding' myself . . . you need to get a better argument.

You should also make note that I AGREED with you as far as his being wrong in witholding the footage, and yes I read that article.

Now if you are referring to the issue of that well funded, biased and Partisan attack-dog PR company when you call me deluded . . . you should just say so . . . and also point out where my delusion comes in exactly?
They are just that, Biased, and Partisan and already well connected and well funded . . . so why did they try to hide their complicity with the anti-movie borderline-censorship tactics??!
and why lie about being a 'grassroots' organization?

Reminds me of that 'spontaneuos' support for Bush in Florida . . . where you could pause the demonstrations and name each memeber of the 'spontaneuos popular support crowd' and show that they were all party functionaries!!

I said you were deluding yourself for a couple of reasons. First you declared that I was okay with what this group was doing and wouldn't be okay with it if it were occuring on the left. I named groups on both the right and left that are biased, but not partisan. NEA for example is nonpartisan. Of course the majority of their endorsements and donations go to Democrats, almost exclusively so. However NEA is not affiliated with the Democratic party.

So I'm not going to be upset that they are biased. Everyone has biases. This group did not attempt to claim they were unbiased from what I saw. They clearly labeled their members and their works as conservative. However they did label themselves as nonpartisan. I don't see how they are affiliated in any way with the Republican party. I would be much more inclined to be upset with large 529 groups that are basically being used to circumvent campaign finance reform (ala Moveon.org and others) than I would groups that claim to be nonpartisan who happen to be very biased. (NOW, NEA, MALDEF, NRA, Christian Coalition, etc.)

Do you have any evidence that the Republican party was funding this site? The links are all guilt by association but there is no money or even paper trail.

I suppose I should be upset that we just so "coincidentally" happen to have a documentary condemning Bush, another documentary helping Clinton (The Hunting of the President: The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill Clinton) and of course the Clinton memoirs book all coming out at the SAME time.

What a coincidence.... I'm trying on some outrage right now. I know it will fit.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #149 of 407
6/17/04 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
NEA for example is nonpartisan.

The NEA isn't a PR firm hired by a political party or its members.
Quote:
I don't see how they are affiliated in any way with the Republican party.

Because the website was registered to a GOP PR firm.
Reply
Reply
post #150 of 407
6/17/04 at 4:08pm
From the UK Guardian
linky linky

Quote:
Meanwhile, in the United Arab Emirates, the film is being offered the kind of support it doesn't need. According to Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment has been contacted by organisations related to the Hezbollah in Lebanon with offers of help.

Moore getting help from Hezbollah? Wait a damn minute...aren't they the BAD GUYS?

I needn't say more.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #151 of 407
6/17/04 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer Moore getting help from Hezbollah? Wait a damn minute...aren't they the BAD GUYS?
I needn't say more.

Actually you haven't said much. You posted a link and from half of a paragraph in it then concluded that Moore and Hezbollah are working together and therefore Moore is a bad guy. Why do I get the feeling you got this from fat junkie Limbaugh.

Do you know much as to how the movie industry works? Rhetorical question.
Reply
Reply
post #152 of 407
6/17/04 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch

Do you know much as to how the movie industry works? Rhetorical question.

Rhetorical or not let me answer:

I do know a bit about it, all be it not lots but I do understand the basics of distribution, what I also understand is that Hezbollah isnt a movie house/distributer unless, like the mob of old they have a legit front end that no one ever thought to connect to them.

Whats next for Moore, "Sadom Husain: The Kind ole guy Bush Didn't want us to See" brought to you by Al qaeda? thats Rhetorical too.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #153 of 407
6/17/04 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
The NEA isn't a PR firm hired by a political party or its members.

Because the website was registered to a GOP PR firm.

As I said guilt by association. Is that PR firm actually owned by the Republican party, or is it called a GOP PR firm because it does work for the Republican party? It is the latter and not the former. It is guilty by association.

Now I could call the NEA, that Liberal Democratic NEA. I could also note that all the literature that goes out for the NEA happens to support Democrats and also that the clear majority of the campaign donations are also to Democrats (something like 98%+) I could even go further and show what percentage of Democratic delegates at the convention just happen to be NEA members as well.

However while closely aligned, the NEA is not a partisan organization. They are profoundly biased. But they are not registered in a manner that makes them exclusively a group associated with the Democratic party. Again I could say this about the NAACP, NOW, etc.

Sticking "Bush" before Republican doesn't make all Republicans of one mind, association and action. Sticking GOP before a PR firm doesn't make it owned by the Republican party either. An article that does both is just showing good use of smear tactics.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #154 of 407
6/17/04 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
As I said guilt by association. Is that PR firm actually owned by the Republican party, or is it called a GOP PR firm because it does work for the Republican party? It is the latter and not the former. It is guilty by association.

Now I could call the NEA, that Liberal Democratic NEA. I could also note that all the literature that goes out for the NEA happens to support Democrats and also that the clear majority of the campaign donations are also to Democrats (something like 98%+) I could even go further and show what percentage of Democratic delegates at the convention just happen to be NEA members as well.

However while closely aligned, the NEA is not a partisan organization. They are profoundly biased. But they are not registered in a manner that makes them exclusively a group associated with the Democratic party. Again I could say this about the NAACP, NOW, etc.

Sticking "Bush" before Republican doesn't make all Republicans of one mind, association and action. Sticking GOP before a PR firm doesn't make it owned by the Republican party either. An article that does both is just showing good use of smear tactics.

Nick

That's a good point Nick, but I think there is a distinction that needs to be made. All these organizations you list have their own agenda, and those agendas are what sway them to one political party or another. So they are indeed biased but not inherently partisan.

But the agenda of the PR firm is the agenda of the party itself. A Republican PR firm will never support Democratic causes, and vice-versa. So I think in that instance they do qualify as partisan.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #155 of 407
6/17/04 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
I do know a bit about it, all be it not lots but I do understand the basics of distribution, what I also understand is that Hezbollah isnt a movie house/distributer unless, like the mob of old they have a legit front end that no one ever thought to connect to them.

Did you know to look at the original source?
Quote:
Fahrenheit to be first doc released theatrically in Middle East

Nancy Tartaglione in Paris 09 June 2004 04:00

United Arab Emirates based Front Row Entertainment is planning to release Michael Moores Fahrenheit 9/11 in the Middle East beginning on July 14 according to managing director Gianluca Chacra.

The film will first be sent out on 18 screens in the United Arab Emirates and will be released in Syria (2 screens), Jordan (3 screens), Lebanon (10 screens) and Egypt (5 screens) six days later on July 20.

Other territories which Front Row will handle include Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia however, all of the above countries are awaiting censorship clearance.

Chacra said: "Were scared most of these countries will have a problem (with censorship approval) due to the Saudi content in the film. Yet, with the Dubai Film Festival coming up, I think theyll want to show the world theyre quite democratic and open-minded.

In terms of marketing the film, Front Row is getting a boost from organisations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to ask if there is anything they can do to support the film. And although Chacra says he and his company feel strongly that Fahrenheit is not anti-American, but anti-Bush, we cant go against these organisations as they could strongly boycott the film in Lebanon and Syria.

As it is too early to have materials available from the films sales agent Wild Bunch, its US producer Miramax or distributor Lions Gate, Front Row created a teaser poster (pictured) but declined a free set of materials from a printing press run by Pakistanis as this could be deemed as an inappropriate source -_ cinemas in the UAE are often frequented by US Marines who come over from Iraq on the weekends.

Front Row, which also worked with Moores Bowling For Columbine, is setting a precedent with Fahrenheit as it is the first documentary ever to be released theatrically in the territory. Bowling went straight to video and had a healthy run. Indeed, Moore is, explains Chacra, considered an Arab supporter, locally.

Having bought the film at Mifed in 2003, Chacra says he was concerned that the marketing would be a difficult ride but at the end of the day you have to give the public what they want, you cant change the way they should perceive the film.

Given the movie going habits of the locals, Chacra says he thinks the film is going to be big but I dont know how big. It could be a blockbuster. A quick round-up of the area shows that Syrians dont really go to the cinema, the Lebanese go to event movies The Passion Of The Christ did well there and the UAE is considered a core market. Chacra says people go to the movies three times a week because even at $9 a ticket its the cheapest form of entertainment and since Muslims cant go out and drink, they tend to go to the cinema quite often. Still, Chacra says that the plan is not to market specifically to any one group.
Reply
Reply
post #156 of 407
6/17/04 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Is that PR firm actually owned by the Republican party, or is it called a GOP PR firm because it does work for the Republican party?

It's a republican run PR firm for exclusively for republican campaigns, just like carl rove. What's Carl Rove's "association" with the GOP?
Reply
Reply
post #157 of 407
6/17/04 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
It's a republican run PR firm for exclusively for republican campaigns, just like carl rove. What's Carl Rove's "association" with the GOP?



coupled with their weak attempt to hide themselves and we can almost see the tip of that 'vast-right-wing-conspiracy'

But seriously
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #158 of 407
6/17/04 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Rhetorical or not let me answer:I do know a bit about it, all be it not lots but I do understand the basics of distribution, what I also understand is that Hezbollah isnt a movie house/distributer unless, like the mob of old they have a legit front end that no one ever thought to connect to them.

Hehe, in your haste to bash Moore all of a sudden you are suggesting Hezbollah as distributors(directly or indirectly)of the movie?
And according to your own link..it's not Hezbollah...it's organizations "related" to them. Please feel free to expand on that relationship....in case you do know what it is.... which from your posts, it's obvious you do?

If it were a front that "no one would ever think to connect them to"...it wouldn't make much sense for them to make worldwide news by offering their assistance now would it?
Quote:
Whats next for Moore, "Sadom Husain: The Kind ole guy Bush Didn't want us to See" brought to you by Al qaeda? thats Rhetorical too.

I find it hard to believe that after at least 2 plus years of watching the news, reading newspapers or websites, you still have no clue how to spell "Sadom Husain" right. It's not like you haven't seen his name pop up....oh....like everywhere a million times or so?

By the way, that documentary idea...good idea. Maybe we could have Rumsfeld narrate it and explain how "kind ole guy" "Sadom Husain" got the 'kind ole guy" treatment by the administration he was serving back then.
Reply
Reply
post #159 of 407
6/17/04 at 7:43pm
<Throws gas on fire>

Michael Moore is a terrorist!

</throws gas on fire>

I just love playing with fire
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #160 of 407
6/17/04 at 8:27pm
Quote:
They changed their web-site registration name.


Yes. but they are not so clever. Here is the info:




Quote:
Registrant:
Move America Forward
P.O. Box 1863
Sacramento, CA 95812
US

Domain name: MOVEAMERICAFORWARD.COM

Administrative Contact:
Kaloogian, Howard howard@moveamericaforward.org
P.O. Box 1863
Sacramento, CA 95812
US
916-441-6197 Fax: 916-441-6057

Technical Contact:
Kaloogian, Howard howard@moveamericaforward.org
P.O. Box 1863
Sacramento, CA 95812
US
916-441-6197 Fax: 916-441-6057



Registrar of Record: easyDNS Technologies, Inc.
Record last updated on 13-Jun-2004.
Record expires on 18-Nov-2004.
Record created on 18-Nov-2003.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.EASYDNS.COM 216.220.40.243
NS2.EASYDNS.COM 205.210.42.20
REMOTE1.EASYDNS.COM 64.39.29.212
REMOTE2.EASYDNS.COM 212.100.224.80
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Michael Moore - Fahrenheit 9/11 (general discussion - merged)