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WWDC and the future of APPLE - Page 10

post #361 of 437
6/27/04 at 5:17pm
Hey Pulver, you're right about all those folks, I even miss JYD, but kormac is a part of that and when you get new folks in the mix, it is sometimes difficult for them to get a guage on kormac and the others....so there is fawning and calling b.s., etc.

If criticism isn't entertaining or knowlegde-expanding, it just gets boring and becomes mere ad hominem...hominum...Escher, what's the spelling? So lets all take our best shots and hope for the best tommorrow!!!
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post #362 of 437
6/27/04 at 5:21pm
OK, Kickaha, here's a double helping of good content, hold the pissy cynicism.

My WWDC predictions:

New thin bezel, ALU displays with ingenious new stands that allow for near iMac-like movement and placement.

17" RIP
20" $999
23" $1599
30" $2999

Much more importantly, the new displays will be DVI and Steve will publicly retire ADC and announce a marketing push to sell these new cross-platform displays directly to PC users whether they buy a Mac or not. This will not just be an inevitable side effect, but a concerted public effort to put an Apple display on every pro and prosumer desk in the world, no matter what brand of computer is hooked up to it. Wall St. will love this.

iMac G5 in new sleeker (but deceptively larger) case. Still basically white, but with more chrome and/or steel accents.

15" RIP
17" 1.6 GHz G5 Combo drive nVidia 5200 Ultra $1399
17" 1.8 GHz G5 Superdrive nVidia 5200 Ultra $1699
20" 1.8 GHz G5 Superdrive Radeon 9600 $1999

No G5 mini/headless Mac or any indication there will ever be one.

No new iPods or other hardware announcements.

No Power Mac bakeoffs, and no mention of the 3GHz promise. The early June press release is all we get.

Big Motion/Shake/FCP/DVDSP demo with lots of (justified) hype about taking over the content creation markets.

Extensive Tiger preview and shipping date of "early next year".
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post #363 of 437
6/27/04 at 5:33pm
I don't really understand the idea of Apple getting rid of the 17" display. I mean, I'm all for getting rid of the square 17" Studio Display...it should have been replaced with the wide-screen 17" Cinema Display used on the 17" iMac a long time ago.

But 17" gone completely? Going to a 20" monitor at $999 as the "low-end" of the lineup? Apple should sell the 17" wide-screen Cinema Display for the same $699 they sell the square one now. (Then at least there is choice for saving a little cash and still going with an Apple display.) Otherwise, if $999 is the cheapest price (20" or not), that's a big market segment Apple would be missing. The most popular LCDs going these days are still in the 15-17" range, and though 20" for $999 is a reasonable price, it's TOO pricey to be the bottom of the lineup.

That said, I think that Ensign's iMac G5 lineup sounds perfect, including the prices.

-- Ensoniq
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post #364 of 437
6/27/04 at 5:34pm
I find it interesting that WWDC is almost here and mum's practically the word.

All we've seen are some questionable Tiger screenshots and our random predictions. No premature specifications this time, I might add.

I'm excited for what tomorrow will bring, big or small.

On a serious note, a push by Apply to target the PC world be a new, powerful message. Apple likes standards, so why not standardize the hardware some too. We've got cross-platform iPods, AirTunes, and perhaps soon displays. What's next?
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post #365 of 437
6/27/04 at 5:37pm
Alright Ensign Pulver, I agree with alot of what you just said, especially regarding the standardizing of the new displays.

I personally don't see a need for the iMac to go G5 since the PB's will be G4 for awhile anyway and does Mom really need to check email at 64bytes. I would rather see a $999 iMac and that won't happen with liquid cooling systems. Maybe it means just re-marketing the eMac abit better, though.
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post #366 of 437
6/27/04 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensoniq
I don't really understand the idea of Apple getting rid of the 17" display. I mean, I'm all for getting rid of the square 17" Studio Display...it should have been replaced with the wide-screen 17" Cinema Display used on the 17" iMac a long time ago.

But 17" gone completely? Going to a 20" monitor at $999 as the "low-end" of the lineup? Apple should sell the 17" wide-screen Cinema Display for the same $699 they sell the square one now. (Then at least there is choice for saving a little cash and still going with an Apple display.) Otherwise, if $999 is the cheapest price (20" or not), that's a big market segment Apple would be missing. The most popular LCDs going these days are still in the 15-17" range, and though 20" for $999 is a reasonable price, it's TOO pricey to be the bottom of the lineup.

I bought the 17" display last Fall (along with my G5 ) and it is absolutely perfect. Plenty of space for a nice large Safari window, the Dock, iTunes, and my Adium contact list to all be visible at once. I honestly wouldn't know what to do with a 20" display. Although I wouldn't mind owning one, I'd rather save the $300. I really hope that Apple doesn't get rid of it. Most people don't need anything bigger. Apple, let people save $300 which they can use to buy an iPod!

Does anyone remember how much the 17" cost when Apple axed the 15"?
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post #367 of 437
6/27/04 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by SS3 GokouX
Does anyone remember how much the 17" cost when Apple axed the 15"?

Yep, it was $999. I bought one almost immediately after they were introduced. The 15" was around for awhile longer if I remember correctly. I had bought one of those too for $799 and sold that 15" when I sold my last PowerMac and switched to a PowerBook.
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post #368 of 437
6/27/04 at 6:32pm
With no satellite or live Quicktime stream, it appears that this year's WWDC Keynote is going to be a bust with only a show of new pro displays and Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.

Where is this so-called great year of the Mac Steve alluded to?
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #369 of 437
6/27/04 at 6:58pm
Ensign Pulver - You are probably right. But here's my (totally unreasonable) prediction:

Displays - same as yours (note that they are all HD). They will all be adjustable using an iMac-type arm.

iMac - (this is an "Oh, BTW, ...")
15" - RIP
17" - 1.5Ghz G4 - 1399
20" - 1.5Ghz G4 - 1799

Express - no pci slots, 4 ram slots, 1 AGP slot, 1 optical, 1 hd
Includes cool way of attaching a new display.
1.6 Ghz G5 - 1499
1.8 Ghz G5 - 1699

(DHagan4755 - I hope you are not right, but your logic is good.)
-JD
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post #370 of 437
6/27/04 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
...
15" RIP
17" 1.6 GHz G5 Combo drive nVidia 5200 Ultra $1399
17" 1.8 GHz G5 Superdrive nVidia 5200 Ultra $1699
20" 1.8 GHz G5 Superdrive Radeon 9600 $1999
...

Good predictions in general, Ensign, but I have some quibbles. First, there should be a 17" display using the same 17" in the iMac - widescreen. However, it needs to be priced at no more than $599 to avoid being laughed out of the market.

Second, that $1399 17" iMac G5 would be extremely tempting. Too tempting, IMHO. I don't think it'll exist, and the 1.8 will stay at the current $1799 (but that's a quibble). I know you guys have shot this down before, but I think the 15" will stay, it'll have a 1.5GHz G4, and it'll be priced at the magic $999.

And, in agreement with Dhagan's posts, the iMacs aren't coming out tomorrow or this week, they'll be announced next Tuesday or thereabouts.
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post #371 of 437
6/27/04 at 7:00pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
With no satellite or live Quicktime stream, it appears that this year's WWDC Keynote is going to be a bust with only a show of new pro displays and Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.

Where is this so-called great year of the Mac Steve alluded to?

Because god knows the OS has nothing to do with making the Mac good...

Jeez.
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post #372 of 437
6/27/04 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensoniq
But 17" gone completely? Going to a 20" monitor at $999 as the "low-end" of the lineup? Apple should sell the 17" wide-screen Cinema Display for the same $699 they sell the square one now. (Then at least there is choice for saving a little cash and still going with an Apple display.) Otherwise, if $999 is the cheapest price (20" or not), that's a big market segment Apple would be missing.

17" LCDs are commodity products. Apple is VERY poor at vending commodity products. Even with the cool factor of widescreen, a standalone 1440x900 17" Apple display just doesn't have enough sex appeal to warrant even a $599 price tag, let alone $699.

On the other hand 20, 23 and 30 inch widescreen displays have TONS of cool factor and are NOT commodity products. Apple is very good at vending such "exotic" technology. Besides, Apple has a long history of $999 as their entry level display price point. At least now you get a big, gorgeous 20 incher for that money.

If Apple is going DVI to sell directly to Wintel users (see this thread for detailed analysis) then steering clear of a ho-hum17" model is wise. People walking into a Best Buy or Circuit City are not used to seeing 20"+ widescreen displays. $999 will be a compelling price point for what will seem like so much more monitor, especially since they can use it out of the box with the crappy HP the teenage salesguy just talked them into.
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post #373 of 437
6/27/04 at 8:33pm
Total Awesomeness!

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post #374 of 437
6/27/04 at 8:57pm
I'd be the first to say I'd prefer to see new iMacs at the show (and of course, Appleworks 7.0...)

But let's not be ridiculous. Pronouncing the show "a bust" before Jobs even takes the stage is bizarre, even by AI standards.

Ensign Pulver: Is that banner really up at WWDC? If Jobs is directly comparing Tiger to Longhorn, it raises an interesting question: Could they actually have the new Filesystem ready so soon?

If Tiger has the long-heralded FS overhaul two -maybe three- years before Redmond, I no longer care about iMacs and they can pay Jobs whatever he asks.
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post #375 of 437
6/27/04 at 9:31pm
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
I say displays. iMac or consumer replacement... probably not. Handhelds, tablets, phones, vacuum cleaners and/or weather stations... nah.

How about a new kitchen sink?

Seriously, Tiger is the only intro I'm confident about (for obvious reasons). I would be severely disappointed but not completely taken aback if Tiger was the only thing that Steve Jobs introduced during his keynote. No new hardware would be boring. But Tiger is all I'm really expecting.

Hopefully Steve will surprise us all in a positive way.

12.5 hours to go... Or maybe more like 14.5 hours, since there is no QT stream and we might have to wait for the press releases to come out and the Apple Store to be updated. \

Escher
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post #376 of 437
6/27/04 at 9:41pm
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Because god knows the OS has nothing to do with making the Mac good...

That's a point I was trying to make earlier. Even if "all" we get tomorrow is OS X 10.4 Tiger, we might still be in for a whole lot of surprises. We've known for months that Tiger will be in the Stevenote. But we still have no clue what will be in Tiger.

Escher
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #377 of 437
6/27/04 at 9:43pm
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
One more thing about Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. Here's the most famous limerick of all times:

There was a young lady from Riga,
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger
They came back from the ride
With the lady inside,
And the smile on the face of the tiger.

Just picture Bill Gates as the lady from Riga.

Sweet dreams everyone! I'll be back tomorrow afternoon.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #378 of 437
6/27/04 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Total Awesomeness!


I think we all know what will be inside Tiger... Longhorn! Wow!
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post #379 of 437
6/27/04 at 9:55pm
Macminute has more of the banners.... if they're real, it's one hell of a jab.
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post #380 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Total Awesomeness!


F***ing huge!!!!
However, Apple had better have something good to replace the lack of updates of Microsoft Office that will go with the Tiger ad campaign...
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post #381 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:33pm
Notice they don't mention Microsoft explicitly.

Longhorn could refer to that terrible football team of the university north of here.
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post #382 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Notice they don't mention Microsoft explicitly.

Longhorn could refer to that terrible football team of university north of here.

What about "Redmond, we have a problem"?? Hum hum...
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post #383 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Notice they don't mention Microsoft explicitly.

Longhorn could refer to that terrible football team of university north of here.

No but they mention Redmond. You aren't talking about University of Redmond are you?

Edit: Looks like The One to Rescue beat me to it.
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post #384 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:51pm
Of course, someone could have just photoshoped those phrases onto a tiger banner. It seems all the sites that have these images come from A SINGLE SOURCE.

Redmond could mean anything.
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post #385 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Of course, someone could have just photoshoped those phrases onto a tiger banner. It seems all the sites that have these images come from A SINGLE SOURCE.

Redmond could be anything.

Damn fine photoshop job in that case.
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post #386 of 437
6/27/04 at 10:55pm
Also note that some sites have been told to remove the images.

They're real.
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post #387 of 437
6/27/04 at 11:02pm
Does anyone have access to the WSJ online edition ?

Quote:
"Is Apple Losing Its Sheen? Its iPod Is Still a Hot Player, But Core Macintosh Sales Lag Behind Overall Market"
["Behind the scenes, the company is working on other projects to jazz up the Macintosh. Among them: next generation word-processing and productivity software, according to a person familiar with the matter."] [Paid Membership Required] 6/27

Sounds like Apple Office and more to me...
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post #388 of 437
6/27/04 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Of course, someone could have just photoshoped those phrases onto a tiger banner. It seems all the sites that have these images come from A SINGLE SOURCE.

Redmond could mean anything.

Good catch! Look at the banner behind it. It (un)clearly has more than a two-word phrase on it. That doesn't mean anything really, but it was fun to think about!

About the only thing I haven't seen is a mention of OS X.4 actually running on Intel & AMD hardware. Wouldn't that be a mind blowing announcement? Hmmm, everyone says no way, but that sure would be the end all right?

Apple certainly knows how to write software for that architecture - I have heard about OS X running on x86 chipsets. Just rumors tho'. Although mind blowing would be small when I really think about it. Talk about a change to the Apple world (that I don't think will happen today, but I think is certainly in SJ's sights).

That being said, this is one of the most tight-lipped Apple events I can remember, although Apple has never really played up the WWDC. Last year was incredible, and I hope this year is just as good.

11 hours to go!
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post #389 of 437
6/28/04 at 12:37am
Hmmm...

I've been following this whole thread without a comment yet. I suppose I'll throw out some thoughts for what we might see at the big show less than 10 hours away.

SOFTWARE:
- 10.4 Tiger (of course)
- Quicktime 7 beta (or date for beta release, maybe August?)
- iChat AV for PC (my personal wild card, or maybe just an SDK for third-party chat developers)

HARDWARE:

- new monitors (20" @ $999, 23" @ $1799, 30" @ $2999)
- new iMac (dunno about the headless, but if there is, maybe we'll see a lower-end line of smaller LCD monitors to match)
- iSight update (PC support, my iSight is getting lonely with so few owners, price drop wouldn't be bad either, again this is my personal wildcard)

OTHER:
- talk about iTMS (Europe, etc.)
- maybe a mention of the iPod from HP
- further talk about Airport Express
- Apple/Sun partnership (maybe some thin client Java OS? just blindly guessing at this, both having code names of Tiger was intriguing)
- some kind of cell phone announcement (just a gut feeling)


An educated shot in the dark? I'm sure you'll all be the judge...

I think by now, EVERYONE expects the Spanish Inquisition...
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I think by now, EVERYONE expects the Spanish Inquisition...
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post #390 of 437
6/28/04 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by jabba
Does anyone have access to the WSJ online edition ?

quote:
"Is Apple Losing Its Sheen? Its iPod Is Still a Hot Player, But Core Macintosh Sales Lag Behind Overall Market"
["Behind the scenes, the company is working on other projects to jazz up the Macintosh. Among them: next generation word-processing and productivity software, according to a person familiar with the matter."] [Paid Membership Required] 6/27

Sounds like Apple Office and more to me...


"Please Lord Jesus, have mercy on us and let this be true..."

(We definitely need a Praying Smiley for use in all AppleWorks discussions.)
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post #391 of 437
6/28/04 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Of course, someone could have just photoshoped those phrases onto a tiger banner. It seems all the sites that have these images come from A SINGLE SOURCE.

Redmond could mean anything.

No actually, 2 sources AT LEAST exist : Macminute's source, and a french site maintained by IT students (www.labo-apple.com)... not fake then, I guess!
Anyway, I doubt we'll see those ads outside the WWDC...
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post #392 of 437
6/28/04 at 5:47am
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
Quote:
Originally posted by sunrein
SOFTWARE:
- iChat AV for PC (my personal wild card, or maybe just an SDK for third-party chat developers)

HARDWARE:
- iSight update (PC support, my iSight is getting lonely with so few owners, price drop wouldn't be bad either, again this is my personal wildcard)

Ooooh. A version of iChat AV and iSight for Windows -- and while we're at it, for Linux -- would be fantastic. For all I care, they could even make Windows users pay more for their version. (Just like many Mac products have been more expensive than Wintel equivalents.) As long as Apple provides the choice.

4.25 hours to go...

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #393 of 437
6/28/04 at 7:09am
The banners are great.

The speculation on this thread has been great.

Thank you all.


Now, it is time, ladies and gentlemen,
to cross your fingers for all your dreams
to come true at WWDC.

...er....

And then, MW Boston.

And then, Paris.

And then, a press-event.

And then, MWSF.

.............And so it goes.



Indeed, Hope Springs Eternal,

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

P.s. Still crossing my fingers for a new iMac and something from "left field." I refuse to get too excited about Tiger, as it is eight months away, probably, from stable release.
Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
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Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
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post #394 of 437
6/28/04 at 7:17am
Will there be anyone inside relaying information to the chat room?
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post #395 of 437
6/28/04 at 7:21am
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
Quote:
Originally posted by Mandricard
Now, it is time, ladies and gentlemen,
to cross your fingers for all your dreams
to come true at WWDC.

...er....

And then, MW Boston.

And then, Paris.

And then, a press-event.

And then, MWSF.

.............And so it goes.

Mandricard, you always hit the nail on the head. It's good to know that the world, including the Apple world, will keep on spinning. The sun will go down tonight, and will rise again tomorrow...

Except that I doubt we'll see anything worthwhile from Apple at MacWorld Boston. Instead, they'll probably introduce new hardware via press release the week before or the week after.

Less than 3 hours to go.... I'll be watching MacMinute and MacCentral for live updates. In addition, AppleNova will be holding a pre- and post-Stevenote chat on their dedicated AppleNova iChat channel. (I can't even remember when I used iChat last. Two years ago?)

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #396 of 437
6/28/04 at 7:42am
I wonder if a tiger can take down a longhorn...
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post #397 of 437
6/28/04 at 8:04am
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
That's an emphatic yesss!

2 hours or 120 minutes to the Stevenote...

The Mac Observer will supposedly feature live WWDC updates.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #398 of 437
6/28/04 at 8:05am
We'll soon find out...
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post #399 of 437
6/28/04 at 8:13am
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
By the way, Red Hat and Novell apparently just announced that they will bundle RealPlayer with their Linux distributions. I wonder whether this will put pressure on Apple to ship a Linux version of QuickTime, and maybe even iTunes, or whether Apple will simply cede that market to its rival(s).

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #400 of 437
6/28/04 at 12:24pm
  • Escher
  • Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
So we will get H.264 support in QuickTime and iChat AV in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. But not until the "first half of 2005!" That literally means we could have to wait until a full year from now.

The new displays are very nice. Wintel users will appreciate the stadard DVI connectors on the 20" and 23" models. The USB 2.0 and FireWire hub rules. Hopefully, I'll be able to afford a new 23" ACD around the time Tiger hits the stores. In the meantime, I ordered my 12-inch PowerBook, as planned. Hopefully it'll get here some time next week.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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