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Bush denies panels finding: stop your ears and yell 'No Wann It" it works 4 children! - Page 2

post #41 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
We have another person that needs reading comprehension classes. That letter doesn't state the Iraq was involved in 9/11. Although I'll congratulate you on providing the full quote unlike many "news" organizations.

You're a joker.

Purely so I can laugh at the language mangling and sophistry with which you're no doubt about to supply us, would you care to tell us why the letter requsting the right to use force against Iraq mentions, in fact concludes prominenently with, 9/11?

Absolute joker.
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post #42 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
You're a joker.

Purely so I can laugh at the language mangling and sophistry with which you're no doubt about to supply us, would you care to tell us why the letter requsting the right to use force against Iraq mentions, in fact concludes prominenently with, 9/11?

Absolute joker.

Just read and understand. Bush's letter is simple and does not imply that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Don't be a troll.
post #43 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Just read and understand. Bush's letter is simple and does not imply that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Don't be a troll.


So what the point referencing 911 in the same paragraph as attacking Iraq? It really seems like he's trying to say one action is called for by another. One action based on another. If what you're saying is true why refer to 911 at all?

The implication's there.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #44 of 173
Why does the letter mention 9/11?

Spell it out for us thickoes. Come on.
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post #45 of 173
Just read it objectively. Pull off your "I hate Bush" hat for two seconds and read and understand the english language.
post #46 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Just read it objectively. Pull off your "I hate Bush" hat for two seconds and read and understand the english language.

It's pretty cut and dried. I think it would read the same no matter what your opinion of Bush was.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #47 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Now where the hell did we get that idea from?

The monkey in the White House maybe?



Joker.

Bullshit.

Quote:
consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations....

The quote continues to say "INCLUDING those nations, organizations...that aided in the [9/11 attacks]. It does not say tht Iraq was one of these countries.
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post #48 of 173
Thread Starter 
It is an unbelievable thing to watch: the technicality that was stretched to a point where it CLEARLY was misleading, and was misleading INTENTIONALLY!!

and then the absurd equivocation!!!!!

There was a link: yes and there was a link twixt the state of Florida and AQ! Yes there in fact was a link . . . a collaborative link?!?!

No, and there will not be shown to be one unless you start to look for names that are close by a six or seven letters difference.

Just look at what you are defending!!!!! How can you call yourselves reasonable?!

They forced a 'Nothing' (as Scott said) into a 'something' through proximity of rhetorical phrases . . . over and over and over until we were assured that Hussain had a collaborative part to play in 911!

This is plain to see to anybody willing to take a step back and look at historical pronounciations, and to look at what the Admin is trying now to say that they meant by their 'link'!!

It simply doesn't matter what the administration does, if I object then you will see it somehow as the good thing for them to do . . NO MATTER WHAT!!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #49 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bullshit.



The quote continues to say "INCLUDING those nations, organizations...that aided in the [9/11 attacks]. It does not say tht Iraq was one of these countries.


Yes you put that together with this :
-----------------------------------------------------------
" Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:"

-----------------------------------------------------------

And the implication is there that Iraq was one of them.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #50 of 173
Here's a completely true statement, no matter to whom you say it: "You're not perfect."

Here's some completely good general advice: "You shouldn't think you're perfect."

Now, put all this truth and good advice together, walk up to that special someone in your life, and deliver it out of the blue like this: "You're not perfect, you know, and don't go thinking you are!"

So, what do you imagine the effect of all of this truth and good advice will be? Will it be properly appreciated? If someone takes it "the wrong way", is it their fault for failing to see the clear truth in your wise words?

I think it's fairly obvious that the context of what you say and the reasons for bringing something up to talk about in the first place are as big a part of any message as parsing legalistic truth out of your literal words.

Bush and his administration are obviously talking about "contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda" for a reason beyond creating the impression of inconsequential meetings that didn't amount to much of anything. That they know incorrect impressions will be created, like the idea that Saddam was behind 9/11, is as obvious as it is deliberate, and seeking to take advantage of people "drawing their own conclusions" -- the conclusions they want them to make while hiding behind legalistic parsing of literal words -- is just as dishonest and manipulative as outright lying.
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #51 of 173
In a nutshell, the President is still misleading the public into thinking Iraq and Al Qaeda were "in cahoots." He's doing this by leaving open the nature of their "relationship" for the public to decide, while strongly suggesting a collaborative relationship. You don't have to be a rhetorical genius to pull that off, but you do need a smart political advisor or two.
post #52 of 173
Al Qaeda was active in Iraq before the war, but their agents were based north of the northern no-fly zone, an area under Kurdish control, where the Saddam Hussein regime had no jurisdiction.
Cheney's persistent alleged "connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda" have been taken out of context: people have assumed that "Iraq" meant "the whole of Iraq". Typically manipulative, misleading and deceitful stuff from this administration.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #53 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Al Qaeda was active in Iraq before the war, but their agents were based north of the northern no-fly zone, an area under Kurdish control, where the Saddam Hussein regime had no jurisdiction.
Cheney's persistent alleged "connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda" have been taken out of context: people have assumed that "Iraq" meant "the whole of Iraq". Typically manipulative, misleading and deceitful stuff from this administration.

Actually, the Admin has been quite deliberate in their use of the term "Iraq" rather than "SH's regime" or "the Iraqi gov't" when describing all of this, since it allows them to imply that Iraq was a state-sponsor of terrorism when all they're saying was that some terrorist, at some point, was in the country.

If they get called on it, they can just deny it. It's easy, really. For instance, you just do this:

Step One: Say Something

Quote:
Vice-President Cheney: Its been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April.--Transcript, NBCs Meet the Press, December 9, 2001.

Step Two: If that statement becomes a liability, deny you said it

Quote:
Gloria Borger: Well, lets get to Mohammed Atta for a minute, because you mentioned him as well._ You have said in the past that it was quote, pretty well confirmed.

Vice President Cheney: No, I never said that.

BORGER: OK.

Vice Pres. CHENEY: Never said that.

BORGER: I think that is...

Vice Pres. CHENEY: Absolutely not.

--Transcript, CNBCs Capital Report, June 17, 2004

See? Piece of cake!
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #54 of 173
The desperation is palpable.

All this ridiculous parsing of what the president "really meant", and when a lie is not a lie but a misunderstanding.

How can any serious person continue to claim Bush never meant to link Iraq to 9/11? How can any serious person deny that he continues to do so? Sure, everyone watches their language so that they can maintain "plausible deniability" when the claims are closely scrutinized (well, everybody except Cheney...), but the intent is there for all to see.

The people defending this on these boards are reduced to labeling "taking note of the obvious" as "irrational Bush hatred".

Do ya'll even believe what you're saying or is it just complete knee-jerk "whatever the "liberals" say I say the opposite"? Cause you reach a point when the "liberals" are saying the sky is blue and your vehement denials start making you look like you're in the midst of some kind of autistic fugue state which compels you to keep shouting the same nonsense phrases over and over again while you bang your head against the floor.

"Liberal media! Partisan sniping! Irrational hatred! Yugga-yugga-yugga!"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #55 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
The people defending this on these boards are reduced to labeling "taking note of the obvious" as "irrational Bush hatred".

I prefer to think of myself as engaged in "irrational Bush hatred program related activities."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #56 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I prefer to think of myself as engaged in "irrational Bush hatred program related activities."

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #57 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Do ya'll even believe what you're saying or is it just complete knee-jerk "whatever the "liberals" say I say the opposite"? Cause you reach a point when the "liberals" are saying the sky is blue and your vehement denials start making you look like you're in the midst of some kind of autistic fugue state which compels you to keep shouting the same nonsense phrases over and over again while you bang your head against the floor.



Post of the month.
post #58 of 173
Sod it. This shit doesn't matter, and I winder who we're trying to kid. The only important thread is the Peak Oil thread. Bush is corrupt. So there. So will Kerry be, should he win.

We live in Pompeii.
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post #59 of 173
Thread Starter 
No

it matters

and you live in yoorp . . . most likely not in pompei

and I live here in the US a country that I love and that I hate to see terrorized by an incompetent, mean spirited, lying, corrupt, and ultimately dangerous Government
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #60 of 173
Quote:
How can any serious person continue to claim Bush never meant to link Iraq to 9/11?

Perhaps by actually listening to him. He's never said Iraq was involved. Now, are the two "linked"? Yes, in the sense that threats must be deal with differently in the post-9/11 era.
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post #61 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Perhaps by actually listening to him. He's never said Iraq was involved. Now, are the two "linked"? Yes, in the sense that threats must be deal with differently in the post-9/11 era.

Talk about stretch! SDW is in rare form tonight.
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post #62 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Talk about stretch! SDW is in rare form tonight.

Facts:

1. Bush never once claimed that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11
2. Threats in the post 9/11 era must be dealt with differently.

I've said it before...if you want to criticize Bush, then do so in an intellectually honest way. Leave your ridiculous rehtoric aside. (i.e. "Bush says he's on a misson from God").
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post #63 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Facts:

1. Bush never once claimed that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11
2. Threats in the post 9/11 era must be dealt with differently.

I've said it before...if you want to criticize Bush, then do so in an intellectually honest way. Leave your ridiculous rehtoric aside. (i.e. "Bush says he's on a misson from God").

1. But it was definitely, undeniably (unless you're either an idiot or a liar) implied.
2. Why? Is justice any different? The same values that the Constitution was built upon definitely still apply in the post 911 envoronment: All [people] were created equal and all are innocent until proven guilty. Or do you disagree with these principles?
post #64 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
1. But it was definitely, undeniably (unless you're either an idiot or a liar) implied.
2. Why? Is justice any different? The same values that the Uonstitution was built upon definitely still apply in the post 911 envoronment: All [people] were created equal and all are innocent until proven guilty. Or do you disagree with these principles?

1. It was not implied. Please cite examples of it being implied.

2. What are you referring to specifically? Does the Constitution state "The United States shall not invade another country without the express written permission of its allies"?
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post #65 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
1. It was not implied. Please cite examples of it being implied.

As for the second part I was under the impression that when a country trumpted up false charges, repeatedly, in order to make an excuse to invade another country that we would not be talking about the US . .. we were supposed to not act like fascists and aggressors. Besides, Hussain was not guilty as charged with regards to WMD. He had none.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #66 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Facts:

1. Bush never once claimed that Saddam was directly involved in 9/11
2. Threats in the post 9/11 era must be dealt with differently.

I've said it before...if you want to criticize Bush, then do so in an intellectually honest way. Leave your ridiculous rehtoric aside. (i.e. "Bush says he's on a misson from God").

We've gone over this already. Your technique of not listening gets a little obvious when it happens so quickly.
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post #67 of 173
Semantics. You people are being "intellectually dishonest" if you think Bush didn't imply Saddam being tied in some way to 9/11. Disingenuous. So cut the shit. I think pfflam's explicit quotes make whatever Scott or SDW have to say null and void.
Quote:
When J. Renos no. 2 is on the committy, questioning, and not being questioned, how can people still say it is apolitical.

Imho, most of the clinton people were treated with kid gloves, while the bushies were darn near on trial, I watched a good chunk of the C-Span coverage and was appauled by the way they were fireing alligations and charges disquised as questions at the bushies and not even giveing them a chance to answer before budding in with a "counter point".

This commision was a marvalous failure, and with the way the members were speaking to the press during the investigation, rather one-sided.

Um duuuuh. Did you see when they had Condi Rice on? If they had kiddie gloves on with Clinton that must mean they had what, pillows the size of refrigerators on their hands when interviewing "Bushies"? And they never even had Bush testify publicly. Alone. That basically makes whatever the Commission has to say BULLSHIT. Not 100% trustworthy or apolitical. That one fact alone. OK bye now, keep on believing whatever you want. Mmm that steak tastes so good..ignorance really is bliss!
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #68 of 173
Oh and one more thing. That everyone seems to kind have missed. What are these "links"?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #69 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Semantics. You people are being "intellectually dishonest" if you think Bush didn't imply Saddam being tied in some way to 9/11. Disingenuous. So cut the shit. I think pfflam's explicit quotes make whatever Scott or SDW have to say null and void. ...


Which quote? Please be specific and don't dodge the question.
post #70 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Which quote? Please be specific and don't dodge the question.

notice the large IMG file with all of the quotes.
Of those listed by Bush alone the 1st the 3rd the 4th and even the 5th are clearly misleading statements or out of proportion. . . and if they are not then I want to see proof.

The thing that is not shown with those quotes is the larger context which of the speeches which very likely situates even further the implied link of Iraq directly to 911
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #71 of 173
Yeah that's a pretty big picture, but no matter how big you make something, those who choose only what they want to see, won't see it.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #72 of 173
And what are these "links"?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #73 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
notice the large IMG file with all of the quotes.
Of those listed by Bush alone the 1st the 3rd the 4th and even the 5th are clearly misleading statements or out of proportion. . . and if they are not then I want to see proof.

1 and 3 are true. I don't know the basis of 4 but it's so plain it should be easy to verify or disprove. I believe 5 to be true too.

Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
The thing that is not shown with those quotes is the larger context which of the speeches which very likely situates even further the implied link of Iraq directly to 911

Where when quote source? After 9/11 the US couldn't afford to allow Iraq to be a huge question mark. Saddam funded terrorism, harbored terrorist and terrorist operated and passed though Iraq. Case closed.
post #74 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
1 and 3 are true. I don't know the basis of 4 but it's so plain it should be easy to verify or disprove. I believe 5 to be true too.



Where when quote source? After 9/11 the US couldn't afford to allow Iraq to be a huge question mark. Saddam funded terrorism, harbored terrorist and terrorist operated and passed though Iraq. Case closed.

If that was the reason Bush wanted us to go to war he should have stated that.

However he didn't.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #75 of 173
Thread Starter 
#1 is absurd and #3 is not true . . . . show me its truth.

Hussain was no 'ally' of AQ . .. wrong . . .

so far absolutely nothing.

ut as was allready said: you will see what you want
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #76 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
As for the second part I was under the impression that when a country trumpted up false charges, repeatedly, in order to make an excuse to invade another country that we would not be talking about the US . .. we were supposed to not act like fascists and aggressors. Besides, Hussain was not guilty as charged with regards to WMD. He had none.

What kind of bullshit is this? Your image proves my point, not yours. There is no implication whatsoever. As for us being fascists and aggressors, well I suppose I should expect that kind of a statement from you. And Saddam "not guilty as charged?" My God...is this really how you think?
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post #77 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Semantics. You people are being "intellectually dishonest" if you think Bush didn't imply Saddam being tied in some way to 9/11. Disingenuous. So cut the shit. I think pfflam's explicit quotes make whatever Scott or SDW have to say null and void.

Um duuuuh. Did you see when they had Condi Rice on? If they had kiddie gloves on with Clinton that must mean they had what, pillows the size of refrigerators on their hands when interviewing "Bushies"? And they never even had Bush testify publicly. Alone. That basically makes whatever the Commission has to say BULLSHIT. Not 100% trustworthy or apolitical. That one fact alone. OK bye now, keep on believing whatever you want. Mmm that steak tastes so good..ignorance really is bliss!

Ummm..pardon me...but what the fuck are you reading?
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post #78 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Ummm..pardon me...but what the fuck are you reading?

The same things you are evidentially.
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post #79 of 173
"Saddam Hussein is a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda"

George Bush
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post #80 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
"Saddam Hussein is a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda"

George Bush

Prove that statement false.
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