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the iMac G5 or G4? - Page 3

post #81 of 105
That's a nice mockup on Spymac, Carni. I like the overall shape and arrangement.

How about:
(a) if it was white plastic
(b) if there was a smaller monitor in white plastic
(c) the monitor came with the machine (machine not sold separately)
(d) The monitor could be available separately but would include a stand.

Some folks have said that the famous "pizza box" LCs were not sold without a monitor.
post #82 of 105
The only problem with the pizza box appeal today is.


1. Cooling
2. You have to use a custom Power Supply. That's $$$$
3. Expandability.

I definitely want to see white go bye bye. It looks too dirty after months of use and clashes with interiors that don't have white walls.

For once I think Apple should really simplify the design. Keep it cheap and use this computer to ship boxes. More boxes means more potential for developers to sell supporting products in the future.
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post #83 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Though i agree with kenaustis on many points, Apple has shown almost a willingness to make sure its iMac/Emac dont have any performance. I also have waited about 10 months for a (better iMac) to show itself. Apple will make certain it is a underperforming low power machine. G4 needs to go, so does the stale mx/Fx5200. Apple will want to charge a high price and then offer stale hardware. they allways have. i will be very surprised to see more then a 1.6 G5 mated to a fx5200 garbage chip. its standard operating procedure due to its poor tier model of sacrificing everything to get 1 powermac sale. iMac & Emac if there is one will again be handicapped,crippled and turned down. dont expect a agp slot they will solder a chip to the board, and if there is anything to remove from a g5 they will remove it. just look at what they did to the G4 models removing L3. Original iMac was almost a powermac without expansion and this was another reason it was a hit. I dont see them doing it again.

At the time, though, PowerMac sales were much better than they are now.
"It's not like Windows users don't have any power; I think they are happy with Windows, and that's an incredibly depressing thought." -Steve Jobs
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"It's not like Windows users don't have any power; I think they are happy with Windows, and that's an incredibly depressing thought." -Steve Jobs
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post #84 of 105
It is my guess iMac will be G5 and that is the reason you saw all the PowerMac's go to dual processors. Had the iMacs been ready you'd have had a release of all dual powermacs and then a new g5 iMac.
post #85 of 105
I frankly dont get it. Why does Apple let their Power Mac line get so stale? It would be so easy to put in decent cards and do marginal upgrades, but yet we have the same Power Mac line from last year except the processor upgrade.

Thankfully Im not in the market at the moment.

I'll upgrade my iMac prediction to:

2.0 Ghz G5
512 MB DDR400
100 GB HD
Decent Radeon
17'' LCD
$1399

1.8 Ghz G5
256 mb ddr400
80 GB HD
Decent Radeon
17'' LCD
$1199

1.6 GHz G5
256 MB DDR400
80 GB HD
GeForce 5200..
15'' LCD
$999


Then I'd say lets bring down the eMac price even lower. $649 would be a sweet price point. No matter how marginal the upgrade is from the current $799 model, we need to lower the price!

And while Apple is at it, it needs to bring some type of duo-tone design to the eMac.
post #86 of 105
Which piece?

The "box" will most-likely be a G5....the display will be a 6800.

There are reasons for QuickTime....Keynote too short? (about the time it would take to show off a new iMac) QT can "run" in the display.

Basically a two-piece unit.
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post #87 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Xtreme
yes, let's hide the real numbers and let apple's marketing team convince us that we're really buying a supercomputer that would destroy a pentium 4 (g4 era).... ummm, sorry but i dont think so.

i do agree with highlighting other points other than processor speed, but i also want them to be upfront about the specs. i want to get the most for my money... if it wasnt the case i'd be buying the current iMac, but we all know deep down inside, whoever does that is really making a bad buy.

I was not talking about HIDING the real numbers! It was just a question of not insisting on the points you're the worst at. When a standard PC buyer reads "Apple iMac 1GHz", he can't help laughing.

NVidia and ATI sell cards like hot cakes without any reference to the frequency of the GPU on the board. I'm sure that relevant indicators (other than frequency of the processor) can be found that would be less of a handicap for Apple.
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Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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post #88 of 105
Since everyone's predicting what configurations will be released, I'll try that too :

1.8GHz G5 (970fx)
512MB DDR400
80GB Hard drive
ATI 9600XT
17" display
$1799

1.5GHz G5 (970fx)
256MB DDR400
60GB Hard drive
NVidia FX5200 Ultra
17" display
$1499

1.2GHz G5 (970fx)
256MB DDR400
60GB Hard drive
NVidia FX5200 Ultra
15" display
$999

Not extremely optimistic, but well... we'll see!
Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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post #89 of 105
What happened to the 20" iMac model?. The 17" combo model will be the bottom where the 15" was.

The thing is will the bottom 17" be cheaper than the current 15" - because with Dell's aggressive pricing it may need to be.

And I doubt Apple will persist with a 4th (15") inventoried model.

17" 1.4G G5 Combo $999
17" 1.6G G5 Superdrive $1299
20" 1.8G G5 Superdrive $1799

Just my thoughts?
post #90 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
NVidia and ATI sell cards like hot cakes without any reference to the frequency of the GPU on the board. I'm sure that relevant indicators (other than frequency of the processor) can be found that would be less of a handicap for Apple.

I agree with The One to Rescue. The computer is no longer a geek's toy. As it penetrates the majority of the consumer population, it needs to be more like an appliance. Most people don't research the specs of their TV set or even their Automobile. They test drive it first and buy if the price is right.

The key is to impress the consumer when they test drive a Mac. Apple has been working hard with its iApps and it does seem to work to a certain extent. But IMO, Apple still doesn't have that "Killer App" that will convert the majority of Wintel users. Anyway, specs only impress the true geeks and that's becoming a minority nowadays.

BTW, let's leave out the pros from this topic because thats not going to increase marketshare in any significant way and while we're at it, don't say that marketshare is irrelevant because although overrated, it is important.
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post #91 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
Since everyone's predicting what configurations will be released, I'll try that too :

1.8GHz G5 (970fx)
512MB DDR400
80GB Hard drive
ATI 9600XT
17" display
$1799

1.5GHz G5 (970fx)
256MB DDR400
60GB Hard drive
NVidia FX5200 Ultra
17" display
$1499

1.2GHz G5 (970fx)
256MB DDR400
60GB Hard drive
NVidia FX5200 Ultra
15" display
$999

Not extremely optimistic, but well... we'll see!

any model above $1300 should have at least a 160gb hard drive, and bare mimumum should be 80gb. In PC land the only desktop with thing less than 80gb sells for $400.

I hope that the imacs don't skimp on RAM and hard drive, but that would be typical
post #92 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
The only problem with the pizza box appeal today is.


1. Cooling


Cooling is an issue but maybe not as severe as some may think. In any event Apple has a lot of options here. It is not out of the real of possibilities that Apple may have other things up its sleeves beside the FX. I say that though I honestly believe that the FX is destined to live out its life at the lower end of Apples hardware line. Either way I expect a new generation of integration in the iMac3.

On the other hand I don't think a fanless system is in the offering this time around no matter what type of enclosure they shoot for.
Quote:
2. You have to use a custom Power Supply. That's $$$$

Not as big a problem as it use to be. Due to the explosion in servers, 1U power supplies are very common now adays.
Quote:
3. Expandability.

PCI-Express would take care of most of the issues here. A full complement of Serial I/O ports (USB & Firewire) would also help. Don't forget the whole idea is that Apple has an expandable solution in the PowerMac. Expandability with the iMac3 is important, don't get me wrong, but the importance lies more with repsect to memory and drive space.
Quote:

I definitely want to see white go bye bye. It looks too dirty after months of use and clashes with interiors that don't have white walls.

For once I think Apple should really simplify the design. Keep it cheap and use this computer to ship boxes. More boxes means more potential for developers to sell supporting products in the future.

I agree that Apple needs to keep it simple. This is one of the reasons a pizza box design is so appealing. Done right the things that users are most likely to want to upgrade will be easy to access and upgrade. I do hope that Apple doesn't loose its grasp on the durability aspect though. It is one thing about Apples systems that has always resulted in admiration, they generally try hard to build durable machines.

What I would love is a pizza box machine that takes the very clean mother board and system layout in a G5 and transfers it to a machine about 10 x 12". This would be a machine without a built in floppy or optical drive, though maybe a thin profile laptop drive might work here. It would be designed to be a first class citzen on a network and would come with a top of the line GPU. RAM would be >= 512Meg and expansion would not result in waste. Less can be more if the right approach is taken, that is not to skimp on what is in the machine.

Dave
post #93 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by jade
any model above $1300 should have at least a 160gb hard drive, and bare mimumum should be 80gb. In PC land the only desktop with thing less than 80gb sells for $400.

I hope that the imacs don't skimp on RAM and hard drive, but that would be typical

Well, in PC land... but when it comes to Apple, you know what it is : pretty cheap on RAM and HD...
I suspect them to do this in order to sell more BTO machines via the Apple Store.
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post #94 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
What happened to the 20" iMac model?. The 17" combo model will be the bottom where the 15" was.

The thing is will the bottom 17" be cheaper than the current 15" - because with Dell's aggressive pricing it may need to be.

And I doubt Apple will persist with a 4th (15") inventoried model.

17" 1.4G G5 Combo $999
17" 1.6G G5 Superdrive $1299
20" 1.8G G5 Superdrive $1799

Just my thoughts?

20" at $1799 is a little fishy... the display itself is sold $1299 (though it's not the same display quality).
But yes, why not!
Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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-- Alex James
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post #95 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
20" at $1799 is a little fishy... the display itself is sold $1299 (though it's not the same display quality).
But yes, why not!

On that note, the Video Cards have to have acceptable Options and/or upgradeable - including the top of the range gaming cards (the retail versions include TV/SVideo).

These machines tend to be the 2nd computer - I personally would buy in addition to my PB. I need a faster home computer for Digital Hub stuff, video/photo/music editing, etc, etc.
post #96 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
On that note, the Video Cards have to have acceptable Options and/or upgradeable - including the top of the range gaming cards (the retail versions include TV/SVideo).

That is so un-Apple! But I'm crossing my fingers too...
Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
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post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by jade
any model above $1300 should have at least a 160gb hard drive, and bare mimumum should be 80gb. In PC land the only desktop with thing less than 80gb sells for $400.

I hope that the imacs don't skimp on RAM and hard drive, but that would be typical

IBM disagrees. Skimping on RAM is something most large computer manufacturers do because they see it as a great way to boost margins.
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post #98 of 105
I don't see why anyone thinks an imac supporting a single G5 would be that hard ofa thing to do. the solution to the heat is as simple as what shuttle uses on their XPC products for the x86 market. a heat pipe. good example is a picture here

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2.../heatpipe1.jpg

it's just a glorified version of what is used in laptops today and does a very fine job of cooling. I have a test machine here at work in a shuttle xpc. running an athlon xp 2500+ bios i changed the fsb to 400 to equal a 3200+ believe me the processor is making heat plus all the other components running I've stress tested this machine for a few days running under full load and seen no issues. the form factor for a shuttle xpc by the way is roughly 8" x 8" x12" believe me heat isn't going to be an issue but the current imac design would have to go. They might not use a design like a heatpipe but right now the small formfactor pc's are making a huge buzz and all use some similar idea of cooling. Just my opinion solely on the heat issue.
post #99 of 105
Jade:

If they can't help skimping on features, let them skimp on something that's user upgradeable. Skimping on RAM and hard-drive is better than skimping on video card and processor.
post #100 of 105
Do you think that apple will ever make their consumer lines more affordable and or reasonably upgradeable?
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post #101 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Lightyear
Do you think that apple will ever make their consumer lines more affordable and or reasonably upgradeable?

More affordable? Not for the iMac line IMO... think eMac!
Reasonably upgradable? Steve Jobs has always been against upgradability in consumer computers, so I guess the answer will be no.
Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
-- Alex James
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Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
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post #102 of 105
Jobs is wrong, he has been wrong on Crts, he has ben wrong on Cube and he has been wrong with current Lcd iMac. people are not going to shell out big money( for comon people) for stale old hardware from 3 years ago no matter how fancy of clothes its wearing. its coming again. 1.7 % market of new machines need i say more? Jobs and Apple need to wake up to the reality of cheap P4s at 3.0 and apple has nothing to compete. ( except its OS ) Its way past time for a configurable machine running a single top Powerpc with a agp slot. Not all in ones with no upgrades, no cpu and no video card path. Yeah they may work for the grandma's but not me or the Doom3 or iPod crowd. Apple is tuck to its silly tier structure and its wrong. this is why less market every qtr. 1% is near and this is with the best OS. whats wrong here? anyone say hardware. Apple refuses to acknowledge this. its their market to loose. or maybe Microsofts.
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post #103 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Jobs is wrong, he has been wrong on Crts, he has ben wrong on Cube and he has been wrong with current Lcd iMac. people are not going to shell out big money( for comon people) for stale old hardware from 3 years ago no matter how fancy of clothes its wearing. its coming again. 1.7 % market of new machines need i say more? Jobs and Apple need to wake up to the reality of cheap P4s at 3.0 and apple has nothing to compete. ( except its OS ) Its way past time for a configurable machine running a single top Powerpc with a agp slot. Not all in ones with no upgrades, no cpu and no video card path. Yeah they may work for the grandma's but not me or the Doom3 or iPod crowd. Apple is tuck to its silly tier structure and its wrong. this is why less market every qtr. 1% is near and this is with the best OS. whats wrong here? anyone say hardware. Apple refuses to acknowledge this. its their market to loose. or maybe Microsofts.

I'm not sure it's totally silly to cut expandability in a consumer AIO machine as long as the specs are nice and the computer is priced in consequence, which obviously is not what's happening with the iMac2, but which happened with the iMac and with the Mac 128k, to a certain extent.
Basically everything goes round. We're 80% dinosaur.
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post #104 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
More affordable? Not for the iMac line IMO... think eMac!
Reasonably upgradable? Steve Jobs has always been against upgradability in consumer computers, so I guess the answer will be no.

That's historically true - but consumer trends are for laptops, so really its the ibook/powerbook and of course the emac as the non upgradeable AIO's.

The newest PB has an upgradeable to 128MB video card - which is not bad and a step in the right direction.

The iMac FP IMO, is more of a mid range computer - not quite el cheapo emac CRT and not PMac status, and in light of poor sales, which in part has been caused by those consumer trends i mentioned Apple will likely be more attentive to the consumer demands for this line - then again it is Apple?.
post #105 of 105
Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
The iMac FP IMO, is more of a mid range computer - not quite el cheapo emac CRT and not PMac status, and in light of poor sales, which in part has been caused by those consumer trends i mentioned Apple will likely be more attentive to the consumer demands for this line - then again it is Apple?. [/B]

In many ways, it's aimed at the same market as the Cube, it's a nice looking machine that's a little bit pricier aimed at people who appreciate nice design. But in that sense, it's also crippled because it's an AIO, because "iMacs are supposed to be AIO", whereas "nice design" doesn't imply AIO at all. Meanwhile, the market segment the original iMac was aimed at is languishing: it's been given the eMac, but the eMac isn't really something Apple is keen on promoting in the same way as it has either iMac.

Ok, controvertial proposal time, but perhaps Apple should kill iMac. Neither the cube nor iMac FP has done much other than be admired. Oh, sure, iMac FP sales were, unlike the Cube's, moderately successful, but I think you and I and everyone else knows that a different machine would have been a bigger success for the same market segment, and a differently priced machine would have been even more successful.

The economy isn't great at the moment. Apple has a functional but ugly machine in the "budget" bracket (the eMac), and should be promoting it harder, with perhaps a minor face lift, as right now it ought to be selling well. It's a simple machine your grandmother can buy and plug into the "intraweb", yet powerful enough to put a student through college and excite a budget-conscious computer geek. As part of that face-lift, something that allows the monitor to be seperated from the logic unit would be nice as that would broaden its appeal, but it's not absolutely necessary.

For the design conscious, the PowerMac G5 is close to there already, and the PowerBooks and iBooks are, right now, beautiful machines.

I find it hard to believe that the iMac FP, at the moment, is really adding sales. I suspect it's merely cannibalising laptop and PowerMac sales. But I'm speculating.
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