[QUOTE]Originally posted by ouroborosYou know I too believe Apple has to make a cheaper iMac. But to compare them over and over and over again to Dell is beyond stupid. What does Dell do? They slap cheap parts together and sell them as complete systems. There's some design to this, as for example in their laptop design, which one can't simply toss some things together and sell.
No, Dell spends a lot of money on R&D to figure out the best way to slap cheap parts together. Apple spends almost as much to figure out the prettiest way.
But these are very different companies. Where is Dell's OS? What software does Dell support? They don't. They simply sell Microsoft licenses. Where is the development for OS X supposed to come from? All those iLife applications, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Final Cut Pro, etc. could be supported, as well as the continues support of OS X with lowering all the prices??
Out of Apple's total R&D expenditure comes hardware and software. Mopst of the latter is purchased by some peopel with a very good eye for talent and then treated witht he right look and feel bits. Apple spends R&D, apple gets an OS to go along with it. DELL spends on R&D and still has to buy licenses. Motion, FCP, DVD SP, and the associated harware is a seperate purchase form the mac. It pays for itself when you buy the hardware. Hardware sales and margins do not support the development of these products -- not with cash, rather they provide an exclusive environment that drives their sales. You've got it ass-backwards: FCP and DVD-SP sales kick money back to the mac -- they don't create any reason why the mac should be more expensive, especially since they aren't bundled with the machine. iLife is neat, no question, and it's a gimme -- paid for by the pro app customers, dev time covered by the pro apps that supply the technological base.
Look, I don't like Apple prices, I do think they can come down and should. But it is beyond stupid to hear all these damn reasons, over and over and over again, from people like Matsu. We GET it OK? But can you fathom that Dell is a different company than Apple? Sure it would help Apple to have a really cheap super awesome system to get all these people in the door. But its not going to happen on the level you think it should happen. I think Apple isn't totally incompetent. Look they just celebrated customer number 2 million at the SOHO store. That's a sign things are moving in the right direction. And I bet there will be a lowend iMac which will be below $1299.
It's not anymore stupid than hearing the same uncritical myths over and over and over again. I don't give a shit that DELL is a different company. They both sell computers of comparable function into the same markets. There are good reasons for buying either. Furthermore, I find it completely ridiculous that any intelligent criticism of Apple is met with complete over-reaction. I never said Apple should sell a powermac for 500USD. I merely pointed out the following facts:
Most vendors, not cheap budget no-name companies, sell a 17" LCD based system for 999.
Most CRT based bundles are about 500-600 USD, not 800-1000.
The eMac is already sold at the 500-600 range, just not to consumers or regular edu customers.
The bulk of eMac sales come out of these discounted units not available to regular edu/consumers.
Apple has itself stated two items.
One. That the iMac is the intended consumer machine. It is what they want you to buy when you buy a machine for the home.
Two. That Apple believes that 999 is the sweet spot for a consumer/family/home-office machine, and that they were dissapointed that the iMac was unable to hit that mark.
Taken with other statements, like the original "the eMac was made especially for education"...
It's rather easy to see that even Apple thinks the eMac is a poor fit for the consumer and that the iMac needs to cost 999 if it will ever again get some traction in the market.
The price of LCD components is another indicator, 17" OEM panels cost little more than 15" panels at this point, and both are cheap enough for inclusion into a 1000 USD system bundle.
Also, Apple has never demonstrated much interest in selling cheap machines (at least not to consumers, though they're learning to compete in edu)
999 is a perfectly acceptable consumer mark for them, for a full featured machine. I agree with them.
This machine will be an iMac.
Makes no sense to keep a high-end eMac after that. They can keep the combo drive machine. 799 is a little rich for it, especially with a 999 iMac coming. 699 is totally reasonable considering the machine doesn't need a superdrive, and is already sold much cheaper to schools and colleges.
And now we read that the OSX is a pro OS, and therefor cannot run on more affordable hardware ??!?@?##(&^#)^#?
Yeah, sure buddy. Total bollocks. Explain then how it runs on iBooks? Pro and not pro are not distinctions made based on the cost of the hardware.
Fcat is, Apple can build a perfectly reliable, full featured, price competitive notebook for the consumer -- they refuse to build a similar desktop to their own detriment.