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REALISTIC suggestions for new iMac 2004 - Page 3

post #81 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
I'll have to call BS on that Telomar. As long as heat is produced to drive the process the airflow will be from bottom to top and be expelled through the vent. As long as air is being expelled out the vent, whether through natural convection as in the examples I have given, or by employing a fan at the vent there will be a syphon effect. In the former, driven by the heat produced, in the latter driven by the fan.

My field is Aerodynamics, but all of the principles apply, as the laws of fluid dynamics are the same across all fields.

My field is heat transfer and fluid dynamics quite specifically As I say you may want to come back to me when you've actually played round with a CFD package and looked at some real systems. If you insert the fan it's easy to move air but don't expect it to work based on the venturi effect because that'll have nothing to do with it.

As I say it depends on the exact design, a house is different to a pyramid filled with components, but if you use simplistic theories without understanding their limitations you'll inevitably hit a case where they fail. It's great you've looked at the principles of fluid mechanics but I don't really think you understand the assumptions behind them and if you oversimplify, like you have been, it'll eventually bite you in the arse. Just a warning for the future since right now I'm guessing you're about 2nd year uni.
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post #82 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
thats simply bullshit

I actually agree with Applenut, though the word "bullshit" is not a great substitute for logical reasoning.

iPod owners have some money or they wouldn't have an iPod. What they want is COOL and EASY and FAST ENOUGH and REASONABLE PRICE. I guess pretty much what we all want, but at a certain sweet spot that the current iMac must not hit.

Software-wise Panther is COOL and EASY, but most iPod buyers run on Windows, and iTunes has made that platform suddenly cool and easy for at least the music part of their lives.

Hardware-wise the iMac crt was cool and the iMac lcd was .... kind of cool. I personallly think that white is terrible color for computers ... about as exciting as beige, but harder to keep clean ... and it reminds me of bathroom furnishings.

The iMac IS fast enough for everything an iPod owner would want outside of the biggest games, BUT "fast enough" only lasts one year now. Upgradeabiliy is important to people and if Apple would only have made upgrading RAM and CPU and GPU as easy access as the OS has made unix, we would have had a real winner. Consumer computers need to be plug and play upgradeable ... as easy as docking an iPod.

"Reasonably Priced" is a hard thing to define. People, especially iPod owners, will pay more for style and quality and I can't claim to know the price points, but I believe that a few years ago Steve Jobs was correct when he publicly was targeting a $500 iMac as a goal. That hasn't happened, but I hope the eMac can get there. At the very least an iPod owner, a switcher who uses Windows now or at work, needs something cool for less than $1k before she will make the jump and that is all it will take to be convinced that OSX (esp. Tiger) will make Windows feel like your father's Oldsmobile.

In other words maybe the new iPod owners need a cool cpu accessory for their iPod in the form of the iMac and that doesn't mean cheap, it means reasonable and that means cool and less than $1k.
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post #83 of 288
BTW, both Bernoulli and Venturi are rolling in their graves.
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post #84 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
In other interesting news restricting flow doesn't actually speed stuff up once you hit Mach 1 but that's a whole other story and I doubt that relevant for a computer

Maybe it will be, at least the Mach 1 part! I vaguely remember reading that one (rather wacky sounding) proposed new power tech involved tiny jet engine style turbines. They would, iirc, generate power by spinning the turbines which were themselves powered by the pressure resulting from some type of high energy chemical reaction. The speed in the turbine chamber was supposed to be extreme, but the chambers were so small that they were quiet. Now that I think about it, I may have read it in "Wired."

Pretty much blue sky stuff, though there were working models. I think there was some mention of them getting up to around 1000 degrees celsius, though. Telomar might be interested in this......

</OT>
post #85 of 288
The iPod is the BEST portable music player there is. Largest Hard Drive for Price, best OS, best integration to windows or Mac, etc. That is why they can charge a premium for it.

When the iMac has the largest Hard Drive, Best Processor Best OS (it does) Best RAM, best screen, etc

Then they can charge premium prices for it. But until they do, they shouldn't charging that much, because people don't buy then.

I can't believe someone suggest Pyramid shape as a good shape! A simple rectangular box, elegantly designed is what is in order. Monitor sold separately.
post #86 of 288
Maybe: http://www.nvidia.com/page/mxm.html

Quanta is one of nVidia:s partners, and they manufactures the iMac, so why not? Then you get an exchangeable graphics card...
post #87 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Telomar
My field is heat transfer and fluid dynamics quite specifically... If you insert the fan it's easy to move air but don't expect it to work based on the venturi effect because that'll have nothing to do with it... if you oversimplify, like you have been, it'll eventually bite you in the arse. Just a warning for the future since right now I'm guessing you're about 2nd year uni.

Your guess would be wrong, (by about 30 years) and your second guessing is wrong as well.

I'll give you that a pyramid with a vent at the top is not a true venturi, (I was oversimplifying there) but you will have to concede that as long as heat is produced, the air will rise, there may be eddies along the way, but the flow is going to be UP and OUT as long as there is a vent at or near the top, and a heat source below it.

Since you are in the field, and likely to have the modeling programs you mention, then give it a go, and report back with data to support your own assumptions.

Of course you will be able to show that ambient temperatures can effect this, but I would guess that the room would have to at least approach, or most likely exceed, that of the interior of the enclosure to reverse the flow as you suggested. (convection eddies aside).

This all becomes an esoteric argument since I'm sure that Apple will have done their engineering homework on any form factor they decide to use. Just as they must have done with the Cube, I would like to note that they had made provisions for a fan in the Cube but given the heat output of the 500 MHz G4, they deemed it unneeded.

I would think that a pyramidal form factor of the size (volume) that I expect (which contains a 970FX) would most likely have a fan, just as I would expect the processor to have a heat pipe or pipes to deliver that concentrated heat to said fan.

But enough said, let's agree to disagree on the thermodynamics of a pyramidal shape until somebody does the actual numbers for us. And feel free to be that person if you do have the tools to make such a study.

...
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post #88 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by tak1108
... I can't believe someone suggest Pyramid shape as a good shape! A simple rectangular box, elegantly designed is what is in order. Monitor sold separately.

Well if anyone can design a retangular box elegantly it would be Apple. They pretty much did that with the MacIIsi (I have a couple of those right now and they are awesomely engineered) but I think Apple indicates that they will stay with an All-In-One just by calling it an iMac.

When they do eventually come out with a headless box, which I believe they will when they replace the eMac, then you will see your elegant rectangle.

...
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post #89 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by jouster
Maybe it will be, at least the Mach 1 part! I vaguely remember reading that one (rather wacky sounding) proposed new power tech involved tiny jet engine style turbines. They would, iirc, generate power by spinning the turbines which were themselves powered by the pressure resulting from some type of high energy chemical reaction. The speed in the turbine chamber was supposed to be extreme, but the chambers were so small that they were quiet. Now that I think about it, I may have read it in "Wired."

Pretty much blue sky stuff, though there were working models. I think there was some mention of them getting up to around 1000 degrees celsius, though. Telomar might be interested in this......

</OT>

A stirling engine mounted on top of the pyramid could make excellent use of that wasted heat. It could even rotate a lightweight mirror "disco" ball!

But seriously... I think the imac2 is excellent industrial design and it's too bad they couldn't keep this form around, upgrade it, and offer it as a pricey alternative for those who want that look. Apple could even offer it in the minipod colors.

Hopefully the new imac will be a competitively priced machine starting at $999.00 with at least a 1.8 GHz G5.

I also agree with THT. and others, about a "headless" mac... there should be something to help lure those windows users with ipods over to the OS.
post #90 of 288
BRING BACK THE CUBE!
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post #91 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pey/coy-ote
A stirling engine mounted on top of the pyramid could make excellent use of that wasted heat. It could even rotate a lightweight mirror "disco" ball!

But seriously... I think the imac2 is excellent industrial design and it's too bad they couldn't keep this form around, upgrade it, and offer it as a pricey alternative for those who want that look. Apple could even offer it in the minipod colors.

Hopefully the new imac will be a competitively priced machine starting at $999.00 with at least a 1.8 GHz G5.

I also agree with THT. and others, about a "headless" mac... there should be something to help lure those windows users with ipods over to the OS.

I love it.....how could a disco ball fail to jumpstart Apple's moribund marketshare?

I agree re the industrial design. As I said earlier (maybe in another forum; there are so many), the iMac2 gives one of the most comfortable computing experiences one could have. I'd hate to see the new screens constraining that experience, since I think I'll buy an iMac soon. As a non gamer, I could care less about GPU upgrades; as someone who uses computers a lot, I certainly care about ergonomics.

In fact, I'd probably choose the iMac2 over the next gen version, if the steel/chrome arm goes.
post #92 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dws
People hoping for a new iMac that is cheaper than the last line are probably spitting into the wind. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Apple is having a hard time keeping the price points the same; and we will see slightly higher prices for a while.

I'm all for Apple trying to cut corners wherever possible, but not at the expense of good quality LCD screens, GPUs, CPUs, FSBs, etc. Even good design is worth the extra costs involved.

I don't think that the last iMac was a failure at all. It sold well enough; considering the time period it was sold in. I fully expect that the next iMac will make Apple money and satisfy the people who choose to purchase it.

iPod users are (obviously) willing to pay a little more for excellence. The same holds true for the iMac.

The iMac is not for Power Users, it is for home or office use, not for high graphics use and as there aren't many games on the Mac so graphics do not need to be good. Apple aren't competing with speed, people want a cheap computer to get themselves online, download songs to their iPod and write letters, not use final cut pro, speed does no need to be an issue.

The original iMac did not even have a way of saving externally - it did not have a good graphics card nor did it have a lot of high end features, and Apple sold three million of them - it had USB, IR a modem and ethernet. The second iMac did not sell as well because it was too expensive, that's the reason for it. People can get a PC for £500 why buy a mac for £1000. The eMac is the lower end and I suppose the iMac should be middle range so should be for £750, not much more though. Apple need to work on a computer that is an upgrade to the current system but addresses the problems the current one had in the market. Apple's main problem is cost, oh and btw the iPod is not that expensive compared to others for what you are getting, also the iPod works in a different market with different factors, it is an accessory for 'coolness' people buy the iPod like people buy Nike, for the name.
post #93 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by tak1108
The iPod is the BEST portable music player there is. Largest Hard Drive for Price, best OS, best integration to windows or Mac, etc. That is why they can charge a premium for it.

When the iMac has the largest Hard Drive, Best Processor Best OS (it does) Best RAM, best screen, etc

Then they can charge premium prices for it. But until they do, they shouldn't charging that much, because people don't buy then.

I can't believe someone suggest Pyramid shape as a good shape! A simple rectangular box, elegantly designed is what is in order. Monitor sold separately.

Completely agree with you, that was exactly my point i was trying to make above!
post #94 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
The iMac is not for Power Users, it is for home or office use, not for high graphics use and as there aren't many games on the Mac so graphics do not need to be good. Apple aren't competing with speed, people want a cheap computer to get themselves online, download songs to their iPod and write letters, not use final cut pro, speed does no need to be an issue.

The original iMac did not even have a way of saving externally - it did not have a good graphics card nor did it have a lot of high end features, and Apple sold three million of them - it had USB, IR a modem and ethernet. The second iMac did not sell as well because it was too expensive, that's the reason for it. People can get a PC for £500 why buy a mac for £1000. The eMac is the lower end and I suppose the iMac should be middle range so should be for £750, not much more though. Apple need to work on a computer that is an upgrade to the current system but addresses the problems the current one had in the market. Apple's main problem is cost, oh and btw the iPod is not that expensive compared to others for what you are getting, also the iPod works in a different market with different factors, it is an accessory for 'coolness' people buy the iPod like people buy Nike, for the name.

The graphics comment is sort of chicken and egg. Why *not* put some decent graphics in it? If it is not upgradeable then it should be decent to start with (not top end but not too far down from it). Also games are *not* the only thing the GPU is to be used for. The Tiger preview demonstrates that *everyone* can use the capabilities of the GPU.

The later (slot loading) jellybean iMacs had Firewire on them pretty much in line with when the Powermacs gained it (perhaps just a short while after) so your expansion idea is flawed as well.

There is no reason Apple can't correct the flaws from the iMac2 and produce a much improved iMac3 in terms of both price *and* performance.
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post #95 of 288
Just a few of my observations

Apple has stated they want to increase market share.
Apple has admited they missed the price point.

In order to gain market share Apple must entice switchers.

When enticing switchers Apple must overcome two main complaints.
.... Lack of software/compatibility
.... Price performance(if anyone really thinks the eMac will entice significant #'s of switchers, I believe they are mistaken)

Of those problems Apple can realistically correct only one, that is price performance. An LCD AIO won't address this problem.

In my humble opinion, if Apple truly wishes to meet their stated goals, they must introduce a headless mac, xMac, iBrick, whatever you wish to call it. It must have a competative processor-G5 1.8GHz min., an AGP 8x slot for standard size card and one free PCI slot would be gravy.

Just curious, what is Fred Anderson doing these days, has he stepped down yet?
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post #96 of 288
I can guarantee two things from Apple with regard to the new iMac:
1. it won't have much if any internal expansion or upgradability, and
2. they will do everything including gluing the monitor to the CPU to make sure you buy their monitor.

It doesn't preclude having a separate monitor or a detachable one, but dont expect for one instant that Apple is going to give up the monitor to customers. There is no direct correlation between these a la carte features and either price or user demand. I don't think Apple is going to lose a lot of customers for pushing a monitor with the new iMac whether it's glued on or not.

Oh, and whether the iMac is a pyramid or a cube or a dome is kind of spurious if you're just picking a cool shape. It's the old design from the inside-out so called "soap bubble" approach that informed the two iMacs before. Obviously, they were refine dfor how they look on the outside, but the rationale was internal first.
post #97 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag

Just curious, what is Fred Anderson doing these days, has he stepped down yet?

He's no longer CFO, but I believe he is still on the board.
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post #98 of 288
As a former Cube owner, I will tell you right now: forget about fanless convection cooling. You only get enough airflow if the parts are extremely hot, which reduces their life substantially. Sure, it may work for a few weeks or months, but the DC-DC board, or the graphics card's fan, or the hard drive, or, if you're very unlucky, the motherboard or CPU will fail.

For any Cube owners out there who are persisting in this fanless fool's paradise, do yourself a favor and add a fan. Or, start scrounging up replacement parts, they're getting rare.
post #99 of 288
what we will not see:
30 inch imac

what we will see:
sadly. it will be an aio
we will see no upgradeability outside of ram,
built for tiger, really fast gpu - 64 mb on low end 128 on the high end
speakers - I have no idea

form factor:
Picture an IBM blade server module mounted on the back of the old 20 inch cinima display - optical drive in besil under display.

Also announced at the same time:
motion express $99, DVD studio express $149.
bundle of FCE+DVDSE+motion express to be a suit (ala iLife) for $499, $50 bucks cheaper than each app alone.

Just a guess
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post #100 of 288
oops dbl post \\/
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post #101 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
For any Cube owners out there who are persisting in this fanless fool's paradise, do yourself a favor and add a fan. Or, start scrounging up replacement parts, they're getting rare.

what about water cooling? with one small fan it could be nearly silent.
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post #102 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I can guarantee two things from Apple with regard to the new iMac:
1. it won't have much if any internal expansion or upgradability, and
2. they will do everything including gluing the monitor to the CPU to make sure you buy their monitor.

Unfortunately, you are correct and Apple's market share will remain fairly steady at whatever it is(maybe a short spike here and there) and they will not increase market share thus failing in their stated goal.
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post #103 of 288
They still haven't even released Motion.... you're already thinking about motion express?

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #104 of 288
How about this. Take 2 ibooks make them a bit thicker, each a little over 2 inches thick. Have them connected w/ an arm that can fold nearly flat or raise the top slab much as one would a display.

You should be able to lay one slab atop the other w/ matching nubs on each that prevents the two from smashing the wires. The bottom slab would house a hard drive, cd/dvd drive and power supply, also would have a usb2 and firewire port on the front. The top slab would house the cpu, gpu and the rest of the mobo. Both slabs would be a very neutral color to go w/ the displays, I'm thinking a flat dark grey. Why? because the displays can now be different colors w/o needing to remake the entire iMac for each color, this would free Apple up to even put out limited edition displays (say something like one that looks like its in a picture frame).

The displays would connect to the top slab via slots or some other connection method. The iMac LCDs would be sold w/o a stand and the DVI cable would be very short to keep from dangling below the top slab where it would plug in. Apple would sell a display stand and DVI extension cable seperately. Apple wouldn't but guaranteed someone would make a 3rd party wall mount stand for these displays.

This would give Apple a 'pizza box' (albeit one about 5" thick), an AIO-style comp (the display would 'click' into place on the top slab) all while giving people a very good reason to buy an Apple display w/o forcing it on them. Also it would give Apple additional displays to market to consumers.
post #105 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I can guarantee two things from Apple with regard to the new iMac:
1. it won't have much if any internal expansion or upgradability, and
2. they will do everything including gluing the monitor to the CPU to make sure you buy their monitor.

It doesn't preclude having a separate monitor or a detachable one, but dont expect for one instant that Apple is going to give up the monitor to customers. There is no direct correlation between these a la carte features and either price or user demand. I don't think Apple is going to lose a lot of customers for pushing a monitor with the new iMac whether it's glued on or not.

Oh, and whether the iMac is a pyramid or a cube or a dome is kind of spurious if you're just picking a cool shape. It's the old design from the inside-out so called "soap bubble" approach that informed the two iMacs before. Obviously, they were refine dfor how they look on the outside, but the rationale was internal first.

"Form follows function"
post #106 of 288
Quote:
iPod owners have some money or they wouldn't have an iPod. What they want is COOL and EASY and FAST ENOUGH and REASONABLE PRICE. I guess pretty much what we all want, but at a certain sweet spot that the current iMac must not hit.

Software-wise Panther is COOL and EASY, but most iPod buyers run on Windows, and iTunes has made that platform suddenly cool and easy for at least the music part of their lives.

Hardware-wise the iMac crt was cool and the iMac lcd was .... kind of cool. I personallly think that white is terrible color for computers ... about as exciting as beige, but harder to keep clean ... and it reminds me of bathroom furnishings.

The iMac IS fast enough for everything an iPod owner would want outside of the biggest games, BUT "fast enough" only lasts one year now. Upgradeabiliy is important to people and if Apple would only have made upgrading RAM and CPU and GPU as easy access as the OS has made unix, we would have had a real winner. Consumer computers need to be plug and play upgradeable ... as easy as docking an iPod.

"Reasonably Priced" is a hard thing to define. People, especially iPod owners, will pay more for style and quality and I can't claim to know the price points, but I believe that a few years ago Steve Jobs was correct when he publicly was targeting a $500 iMac as a goal. That hasn't happened, but I hope the eMac can get there. At the very least an iPod owner, a switcher who uses Windows now or at work, needs something cool for less than $1k before she will make the jump and that is all it will take to be convinced that OSX (esp. Tiger) will make Windows feel like your father's Oldsmobile.

In other words maybe the new iPod owners need a cool cpu accessory for their iPod in the form of the iMac and that doesn't mean cheap, it means reasonable and that means cool and less than $1k.

Yeah Dubbya, I guess we need the United Nations after all....nit!

yes.
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post #107 of 288
One thing that hasn't come up in the lastest threads (but was a mainstay of years ago) is the discussion of "What is an iMac?" I think the product lines and the "message" have gotten abit murky for the public.

The iMac WAS the quickest way to the internet and WAS for the (at that time) majority of folks who didn't have a computer. The iMac NOW is the hub of the digital lifestyle for switchers or people who already had a computer.

There is still a need for an easy AIO for those first timers to computing ... that so far is in the form of the eMac, but because there is no advertizing for it...no buzz, it is not making a BIG impact. It is doing surprisingly well, and here I think is where the Apple Stores work so well. Let switchers and newbies see the PBooks and PMacs - let them go ga ga over Panther/Tiger - and then when they see the price, lead them over to the eMac if they flinch.

I think making the eMac, even more enticing to first timers...and I don't care if it does use crt's or not as long as it is strudy and cheap for schools ... just add color and pizzaz and sell it loaded with the music from every Pixar movie and loaded with every Pixar short film and trailer and every Pixar-based game AND give special PC trade-in bundles with cheap 10gigiPods (you know they could still sell those at a profit) to really jump-start someone's digital life!! And make it as close to $500 as possible. This won't harm other Mac sales because the 500-crowd will never buy a $1400 iMac or laptop anyway!

Then you have the somewhat prosumer current iMac2. How do you make a digital hub for switchers and the "just bought an iPod" crowd? Well you make switching easier - offer tradeins and bundles as above, but maybe concentrate on more software aspects and yes ... add colors or metallics or something COOL!!!!!! Cube with armature would be awesome, but if it can't get to $1000 on the very low-end and have either upgradeability or the ability to have dual monitors, it won't convince the switchers enough.

Just like with the Cube and eMac, there is no reason to eliminate "old" but effective form-factors, when you bring out the next best thing. Apple no longer needs to artificially keep its product grid simple. It needs to be able to meet the expectations of almost everyone that walks in their stores, because that is the market the iPod is giving them.
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post #108 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
...The iMac NOW is the hub of the digital lifestyle for switchers or people who already had a computer....

If that is their goal then the iMac 2 has failed miserably, probably more miserably than the Cube which was a "boutique" computer for executives when it was untimely to do so.
post #109 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by chipz
I have to agree that the new iMac will not be the machine tghat many are hoping for. Due to heat problems, I think Apple will stay with the G4 and crank it up to 1.5 GHz. They may also up the RAM to 512 MB. The HD will most likely remain at 80 GB as that's a pretty good sized HD for this computer. A Firewire 800 port wilol probably be added as well. You must remember, the iMac is a consumer machine meant for persons who want a good, reliable computer - not a user who wants the latest and greatest. For them, there is the PM.

Well, Apple said at their last financial broadcast that the next iMac would be G5.
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post #110 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
You could cluster in Panther from the get go.

I have a feeling that next year Apple is going to release "something" which will explain WHY Steve paid no attention to the fact that one of his slides during his Tiger presentation noted: xGrid (Built right into Tiger).

Amazing this has gotten no press OR AI forum attention yet!! (well, until right now ofcause )

Maybe the new iMac design will be built around the fact that soon, really soon now, we will all be able to make home-cluster-brain-child-Mac's
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post #111 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Wilkie
That pyramid has to be the single worst computer design ever. It's the exact opposite of the iMac. It's a perfect example of space inefficiency. And it really couldn't be worse looking. When Apple makes a computer like that, the apocalypse will be upon us.

How nice to quietly sit and read this topic, hear all the different opinions...and then suddenly out of nowhere you read something that throws your body clear across the room, laughing so loud no PC fan would even attempt to compete.

"When Apple makes a compute like that, the apocalypse will be upon us" - pretty straight forward statement there LOL!!!
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post #112 of 288
I seriously think you are hitting the nail on the head with a Peter Gabriel "Sledge Hammer" in a MC Hammer "Hammer Time" ))

hey...I'm just missing my old iPod is all...

Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
I actually agree with Applenut, though the word "bullshit" is not a great substitute for logical reasoning.

iPod owners have some money or they wouldn't have an iPod. What they want is COOL and EASY and FAST ENOUGH and REASONABLE PRICE. I guess pretty much what we all want, but at a certain sweet spot that the current iMac must not hit.

Software-wise Panther is COOL and EASY, but most iPod buyers run on Windows, and iTunes has made that platform suddenly cool and easy for at least the music part of their lives.

Hardware-wise the iMac crt was cool and the iMac lcd was .... kind of cool. I personallly think that white is terrible color for computers ... about as exciting as beige, but harder to keep clean ... and it reminds me of bathroom furnishings.

The iMac IS fast enough for everything an iPod owner would want outside of the biggest games, BUT "fast enough" only lasts one year now. Upgradeabiliy is important to people and if Apple would only have made upgrading RAM and CPU and GPU as easy access as the OS has made unix, we would have had a real winner. Consumer computers need to be plug and play upgradeable ... as easy as docking an iPod.

"Reasonably Priced" is a hard thing to define. People, especially iPod owners, will pay more for style and quality and I can't claim to know the price points, but I believe that a few years ago Steve Jobs was correct when he publicly was targeting a $500 iMac as a goal. That hasn't happened, but I hope the eMac can get there. At the very least an iPod owner, a switcher who uses Windows now or at work, needs something cool for less than $1k before she will make the jump and that is all it will take to be convinced that OSX (esp. Tiger) will make Windows feel like your father's Oldsmobile.

In other words maybe the new iPod owners need a cool cpu accessory for their iPod in the form of the iMac and that doesn't mean cheap, it means reasonable and that means cool and less than $1k.
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post #113 of 288
I missed it as far as the G5 in the new iMac is concerned. However, I think Apple will stay with the AIO concept for the iMac. A headless iMac seems to be on a lot of wish lists, though. I also agree that Apple needs a computer for new switchers - something more basic that the iMac and that's where the eMac comes in. Something tells me that Apple may start emphasizing the eMac as a "switcher's" computer, rather than as an educational machine. I also think the eMac is due for a major upgrade as well. A flat panel monitor would be nice.
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post #114 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by chipz
...Apple may start emphasizing the eMac as a "switcher's" computer, rather than as an educational machine. I also think the eMac is due for a major upgrade as well. A flat panel monitor would be nice.

The eMac is a stop-gap machine that has recieved little R&D. What they need is a computer that reafirms their commitment to the consumer with a good price/performance ratio and will take advantage to potential interest generated in Apple computers generated by the success of the iPod and iTMS. To do this they will need to hit the "sweet spot" that Apple has admitted that they were not able to achieve with the iMac G4 with a mainstream product that recieves adequate marketing and advertising. The eMac is too low end to really achieve these goals, and its technology and design it too out of date.
post #115 of 288
Precisely the way I feel. That's why I said that Apple may shift more emphasis to the eMac and bring out some serious reworking. The flat panel monitor would be a start, along with an update of chips - possibly to a G5 (although that would have to wait untiol the iMac is out and established).
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post #116 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by chipz
Precisely the way I feel. That's why I said that Apple may shift more emphasis to the eMac and bring out some serious reworking. The flat panel monitor would be a start, along with an update of chips - possibly to a G5 (although that would have to wait untiol the iMac is out and established).

A flat panel monitor would make it an iMac, and the other updates are long overdue anyway. The archetecture of the eMac is basically a slow evolution of the original iMac without the value of the original iMac in relation to the surrounding market that it needs to compete in. What it, and the iMac, really needs is a compleatly redesigned motherboard, which is a necessity with the G5, incorperating standard features that similarly priced computers have such. A lot of those would come about with the adoption of a G5 archetecture. The potential pit fall is that even with the G5 it does not achieve the price/performance goals that it needs to compete in the market place.

The original iMac was a success not just for it's simplicity or its trendy design, but also becouse it was a computer that performed well against its competators in the market place both in real world performance and in percieved performance "by the numbers." I'm not sure that even a single 1.6 Ghz G5 achieves these goals, even given that it gets 1.5 X clock speed vs. a pentium 4 in real world performance that only makes it equivelent to a 2.4 Ghz P4 CPU which can be purchased for about $870 with a 15" FM monitor.

What is really needed is an iMac that has a clock speed of 1.8Ghz for the low end, and 2.0 for the high end with an entry price of less than $1,000 (USD). At the same time Apple needs to address the "gap" left in their line-up with the entry PowerMac starting at $1999. There is definatly a market for a lower priced "headless" computer, and Apple has all but abandoned it.
post #117 of 288
i am really torn on this new iMac

I want to predict 1 or 2 models with integrated LCD and integrated graphics and the usua; but better performance and prices.

However, I have this image of Steve Jobs on stage about to unveil the new iMac and talking about what people have demanded to make the new iMac a success and going through a checklist as he has in the past of issues and checking each one off as being addressed (headless, upgradeable graphics, G5, cheaper, etc)

so, i really can't figure it out and usually I do pretty well with predictions. August will be a long wait.
post #118 of 288
I get the feeling we are missing something here. The original iMac and the Mac, itself, for that matter were revoluntionary machines. The iMac was great not just because it brought the AIO concept back in a great package, but also because it took USB and later Firewire and really forced these new technolgies to break through. All this while getting rid of those stupid floppies.

I think its time for another big surprise. Sure Apple could get away with a new package and a G5, but if they want to keep their revoluntionary mantel they need to break some new ground. How about some realistic but not obvious predictions.

What technology is ready for prime time but just hasn't had the push needed to go big? Unfortuneatly, all i can think of is my built-in iSight idea. All the peices are there and it really is something that needs critical mass (and broadband) to become something we can't live without. Remember Steve talking about how it has changed the way folks work at Apple. Imagine a world of folks video chating for work and play.

Lets assume it will be a good looking computer with an lcd and a G5. What else is sitting out their waitnng for the apple treatment.
post #119 of 288
Thread Starter 
The current iMac suffers bad sales because of it's lack of price to performance ratio and it fails to meet the needs of MOST CONSUMERS* and the lack of upgrade options to get the machine capeable of doing what they need.

By MOST CONSUMERS*, I mean gamers (which is no small number considering how HUGE the gaming market). Regardless of whether you play games or not, there are dozens of people for every one of you who do or would if their machines weren't already outdated in terms of performance.

Also, aside from the lucrative gaming market, Mac OS X is extremely graphics rich and demanding and more of the performance and "snapiness" will DEPEND on great GPU performance.

Here's what I propose...

Upgradeable video cards OR the current top graphics card soldered to the motherboard (ATI Radeo 9800).

If upgradeable...

PCI Express - ATI X300 with BTO option for ATI X600 (leave the X800 for PowerMac towers).

This allows customers to pick what level of video they need according to what they use it for. Having upgradeable video cards would give incentive to ATI and NVidia to make more cards compatible for us Mac users.

As for the fear of galvinizing sales from the PowerMac G5 towers...

a) get over it...don't lose sales to customers who are unwilling to pay $2000 plus to get decent hardware

b) there will be enough differences to make the distinction between consumer desktops and pro desktops
1) Single vs. Dual processors
2) Expansion slots
3) More RAM slots (up to 8GB on towers, up to 4 GB on iMacs)
4) Headless (allows choice of monitors)
5) Built-in Bluetooth and Airport Xtreme (build to order on iMacs)

c) Price point is key...more than eMacs and less than PowerMacs
New case should have USB2, FireWire, and headphone port on the front of
the case, maybe VESA mounted LCDs.
Good
17" LCD
G5 1.6
256MB RAM (DDR400), expandable to 4GB
60 GB Serial ATA HD
Combo DVD/CDRW Drive
NVidia 5200 32MB
$999

Better
17" LCD
G5 1.8
512MB RAM (2 256MB DDR 400), expandable to 4GB
80 GB Serial ATA HD
Combo DVD/CDRW Drive
ATI 9600 64MB
$1299

Best
17" LCD (maybe 20" as Best plus option for $350 more)
G5 2.0
512MB RAM (1 512 DDR 400 stick)
80 GB Serial ATA HD
SuperDrive
PCI Express ATI X300
$1599

Granted this setup would require PowerMac G5 towers to bump up their graphics cards (128 MB Video RAM as low end, 256 MB High end), and a minimum of 512 DDR 400 for the towers as well.

Not one of these suggestions would seriously hurt Apple's profit margin and would seriously attract sales.

Would YOU buy one of these machines in a slick new case?

Comments welcome.
post #120 of 288
Apples needs to include more ram in there systems for less money. Right Now all powermac's(except the Dual 1.8) should come with at least 1GB.
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