Kerry's speech: I'm now voting for him not against Bush.

That says it for me too . . . I was just ABB, but I think Kerry has character and a forceful one at that.

Count me in.

I think I was won over by the sense of resolve and willingness to take the fight to the chest-beating right.

After the meek fold of 2000, I truly relish the idea of a candidate who is prepared to put some teeth into the rhetoric of liberalism.

And who is doing it not just to "win the argument" but because he feels these ideas really are worth fighting for.

While I agree with your sentiments (that Kerry is sincere), I still dislike Bush more than I like Kerry.

That said, I like Kerry more now than I did a month ago.

speech's don't make presidents.

then again, he does know how to speak....which is something bush can not do. so who knows

Speeches don't make presidents.

Then again, he does know how to speak, which is something Bush cannot do, so who knows?

Nope, not even close for me. Still voting against W.

How bad would Kerry have to be, to make you vote for Bush instead of him?

Is that way he was doing when he voted against funding them?

I thought that Kerry's speech was well crafted and delivered even though the media panned him on his timing, saying he didn't stop often enough, or allow enough time for the delegates to applaud. Contentwise, I got the impression that he does offer a different worldview to the Bush crew, but I am still pissed at him, as well as all those other led-by-the-nose senators and representatives who voted to support the insane idea to go to war in Iraq, seemingly without doing any research, when it was well-known that Iraq possessed no WMD. Kerry will have to do a whole lot more to convince me that he is a real peoples' person, and not just another corporate-owned career politician in a friendly costume. Until then, I will be voting against Bush, rather than for Kerry.

If he uses his skills as a prosecutor to go after the hordes of white collar corporate criminals and parasites who are leaching this country, he has my vote. If he promises to pass legislation that prevents those 65% of major US corporations from evading federal income taxes, which costs the nation hundreds of $billions annually, then he has my vote too. And if he honestly supports programs to wrest the US away from dependence on foreign oil, then he has my vote as well.

In the election, an issue that will strike a chord with Americans is the choice between Kerry the decorated war hero, and Bush the chickenhawk.

I would like to see him allocate $100 million, (about the same that Ken Starr spent in investigating Clinton's dallying) to fund a REAL NO HOLDS BARRED investigation into 9-11, rather than the $600k shoestring budget, pathetic, 411-day delayed whitewash we've just been insulted with. If Bush produces bin Laden however, forget the chance of a Kerry victory, forget everything, it's all over.

I just can't figure out if Hope or Help is on the way.

[edit]Come to think of it, I'm also not sure how many Americas there are.

how bad was Gore?

i'd say slightly worse than Gore then

I watched the speech and found it very nice in terms of rhetoric, but it was just so short on how to get it done. Here is a prime example.


Not a single even vague point about how to get anything done.

Now be honest. Go look at the Clinton 1992 speech and compare the two.

1992 Clinton

I mean Kerry didn't even mention the number of jobs lost or not grown in the last four years for example?

It is easy to see why people respect Clinton and why he so easily kicked the hell out of most people politically.

When you compared "And help is on the way" to the "New Covenant, it isn't even close. Clinton defined a philosophy. Kerry defines nothing but that life has some misery and he will fix all of it everywhere. That's not uplifting because we know it is impossible.

The Kerry speech was very mediocre in my view.

Compare this by Clinton..


To this by Kerry...


Clinton had a plan. He, though vaguely becaue of the nature of the speech, defined that everyone had a role with a right and a responsibility. He even described the sense of community and uplifting that would occur. Kerry... generalized misery with "help on the way."

Kerry's speech didn't get it done in my view.

Nick

How is everything looking through those black and white glasses huh?

Duuuh?

get your facts right:

John Kerry: "I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it!!!"

he supports the troops...before he speaks out against what they are doing.

This guy is hopeless, he changes his mind on the war every other day, depending on whom he is speaking to, and he voted in the 90's to gut the intel. community that he says he will rebuild if elected.

That's true though. I don't know why he doesn't defend that, because it's very defensible. He voted for a version of that bill that would have postponed some of the tax cuts in order to pay for it. But the Republicans defeated that and wanted it to just increase the deficit. So he voted against that version of it. It makes perfect sense, and although I think he should have voted for the final version, I think he can defend voting against it.

BRussel, haven't you learned by now to not demand that one actually look underneath the slander campaign?! It doesn't matter that that quote was taken without its context and completely abused for Right-wing slander purposes, what matters is that it makes for good jabs . . .

and in the end, with this group of Repubs, it doesn't matter even if their position lacks any stance or principles as long as it makes good jabs its good enough.

Actually I've detailed here several times what Kerry could do to get my vote. It mostly involves immigration reform which is very much related to environmental, racial, union, and security issues. I've also said he could become a true fair trader which would earn my vote as well.

Neither of those positions are owned or addressed by conservatives and addressing them would not undermine Kerry being portrayed as middle of the road or liberal. If he committed to immigration/security reform and fair trade, he would have my vote.

Nick

Well then why cant he say that? If he had said that and not just "I voted for (it) before I voted against it" that would have been at least a little reasonable.

What really frosts me is Kerry talking about the men and women in iraq not haveing body armor (which isnt all together true) when, for a reason that he hasn't publicly explained, he voted against the 87 billion dollars of wartime funding.
P.S.
Oh how rude, I forgot to say that he voted against it AFTER voteing for it.

Are you sure he didn't explain it? The only thing we've heard is that 2-second clip. I heard Bush repeat those words again today. Obviously Kerry was speaking both before and after he said that particular phrase, maybe he did give the full explanation at the time. But I'm not quite sure why he doesn't defend it now. Maybe he just wants to avoid the whole issue.

But apparently this all started when Kerry criticized Bush for not sending body armor for all the troops. Apparently that is undisputed. Think about it: Why was there a bill before Congress to purchase body armor for troops, if they were already in Iraq?

I think it's a fair ad, and the best one they've got against Kerry. But I just think Kerry has at least a reasonable argument against it.

Here's some information on the issue.

It's difficult to "slander" someone when you site their actual voting record and actual quotes.

At the end of the day Kerry voted for the Iraq war and then voted against funding it.

This is going to be where it gets really ugly. Our conservative posters serve as a microcosm of the American right at this moment.

The people repeating these talking points-- that Kerry voted to "gut intel", that Kerry "voted against funding the troops"-- know full well that similar things could be narrowly defined as true about most of the members of the senate.

All it takes is one badly crafted piece of legislation that contains, at least in part, funding for something that sounds good, and you can play this game all day.

Hence: Republican Senator X votes against life saving measure for children! Senator Y votes to put seniors to death! And to put mercury in the water!
Hey, did you know that Bill Frist voted to destroy social security? Apparently he hates America!

I'm starting to wonder if the right has any substantive criticism whatsoever of Kerry. So far all we have is the phony "flip-flop" meme (how you liking that 9/11 commission now, Mr. Bush?), grotesquely distorted versions of Kerry's voting record, pathetic attacks on his tour of duty in Vietnam, spurious slander (He's having an affair! He uses Botox! He secretly restaged battles in 'nam! He and Edwards must be kinda gay!), and some vague hand waving about al Qaeda and "remaining resolute" and the old "liberals are pussies" line.

If Kerry is such a poor candidate, why not confront him on his actual failings? Why the distorted bullshit? I can only conclude that he must be pretty solid, if what we have seen so far is the best the right can do.

But hell, don't let me stop you. Ya'll just keep chanting "he's a flip-flopping, troop defunding, voted for the war before he voted against it, french looking, most lilberal ticket ever having Herman Munster looking guy".

And after all of that is easily refuted, the left and Kerry can continue their coherent critique of the actual for real damage that Bush has done to this country, while his positives just keep dropping and his negatives just keep growing.

You forgot that he's "outside the mainstream." I swear, the attacks on him are just incredibly stupid.

He's outside the mainstream--and yet he's polling ahead of Bush in national polls? Even people like Ralph Reed admit that this race is going to be close. How can he be outside the mainstream if it's going to be a close race?

He's the #1 most liberal member of the Senate--Don't ask how this ranking was established.

He's a flip-flopper: How can he be both consistent enough to be "the #1 liberal" AND a flip-flopper? Those two things are mutually exclusive

I swear, the talking points coming out of the Bush campaign for the most part rely on Bush supporters either being stupid or not caring that chunks of them don't make any sense.

I'll say it again: if I were a Republican, I'd be very, very concerned that Kerry is appearing more than Bush in Bush's campaign materials/sites/TV spots.

Astonishingly, the theme of the Bush "August offensive" is "results matter".

So apparently the presumption is that likely Bush voters are not only stupid, but deaf, dumb and blind.

so that means Bush measures up well?

That would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Hey Scott READ MY LIPS!!!!! Duuuh?

I hope for your sake as well as everyone here, one day you stop lying in your posts. They are distractions to an otherwise intelligent discussion.

I think we should ammend that to "The true measure of a candidate is how viscoulsy he/she is attacked by the Bush campaign" and call it the Bush Rule for Presidential Worthiness. It would put John McCain right up at the top, with Kerry not too far behind and rising fast.

You add so much to the discussion yourself with name calling.

Nick

When someone's wrong, you correct them. That's how to move a conversation forward.

This is true. You correct them by providing information, links, articles, heck maybe even the actual voting record.

That then shows everyone the objective truth and allows them to move forward.

You did none of that. You just called him a liar. You did not correct, you simple called names.

Nick

You know Kerry seems like a much more forceful, smart, and full of direction candidate than I gave him credit for.

It's not so much just to get rid of Bush anymore.

I want Kerry.

I agree completely. An ardent liberal, I wasn't in the pro-Kerry camp until after I heard his speech and only his speech. Granted, I enjoyed and was impressed by other speeches given during the convention, but Kerry's was the one that mattered. I would likely have voted for him anyway, even if his speech floundered, but now I support him completely.

Now I can say that I agree with Kerry's ideals and that I think he would make an excellent president.

I want Kerry.


Ask and I'll tell you why.