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Bush on "Tribal Sovereignty" (audio clip)

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Found this funny clip from Majority Report Radio through DailyKos. It's a clip of an audience of minority journalists laughing at Bush's flubbing of a complex question. More on the conference and Bush and Kerry's performances here.
post #2 of 19
I saw them both (and powell) speak. It was an totally hostile crowd and I think Bush came better through than the article say.

Especially listen to his remarks regarding affirmative action. He is defending his position rather well infront of a crowd that disagrees with him 100%

And a general remark: Why is it that everybody wants to judge the candidates by their oratory gifts?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Oh, cool.

Edit: Found links at C-SPAN.org but I don't know how to copy the URL. (It copies javascript instead.)
post #4 of 19
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
And a general remark: Why is it that everybody wants to judge the candidates by their oratory gifts?

Communication is one of the primary jobs of the president. This clip, and Bush's communication problem more generally, isn't about oratory gifts, it's about knowledge and the ability to clearly talk about ideas and issues. He can't talk extemporaneously about issues because he embarrasses himself every time.
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
And a general remark: Why is it that everybody wants to judge the candidates by their oratory gifts?

That's clearly not an oratory issue. It appears George doesn't know what the word sovereignty means.
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Especially listen to his remarks regarding affirmative action. He is defending his position rather well infront of a crowd that disagrees with him 100%

Oh, on this, he said he was against quotas. Uh. Quotas are illegal now, and have been for decades. There was no substance to what he said.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Communication is one of the primary jobs of the president. This clip, and Bush's communication problem more generally, isn't about oratory gifts, it's about knowledge and the ability to clearly talk about ideas and issues. He can't talk extemporaneously about issues because he embarrasses himself every time.

"What do you think tribal sovereignty means it the 21st century and how do we resolve conflicts between tribes and the federal government?"

Asked that question without preperation I would answer halfassed as the prez does or have to say "gee I don´t know much about that. I´m ready to read up on it. Are there any problems you know of? Please let me know and I will focus on it."

I ran for our parliarment six years ago and you simply cannot know everything. Remember he is campaigning, probably giving a speech every hour for most of the day. You are totally dependend on your speech writers and informants. It looks like Kerry have the upper hand in that area.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #9 of 19
Quote:

Does anyone know where the sovereignty question is?

[edit] found it - it was about 33 minutes in.
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
"What do you think tribal sovereignty means it the 21st century and how do we resolve conflicts between tribes and the federal government?"

Asked that question without preperation I would answer halfassed as the prez does or have to say "gee I don´t know much about that. I´m ready to read up on it. Are there any problems you know of? Please let me know and I will focus on it."

I ran for our parliarment six years ago and you simply cannot know everything. Remember he is campaigning, probably giving a speech every hour for most of the day. You are totally dependend on your speech writers and informants. It looks like Kerry have the upper hand in that area.

Anders, those were my exact thoughts. Except I thought he *should* have said the latter, countering his perception as a bumbling, largely incurious man. Personally, I don't fault him for not knowing the answer to a sophisticated question on a fairly esoteric topic (although Clinton speaks eloquently about tribal issues). I fault him for trying to pass off his seemingly *complete* lack of knowledge of tribal issues as knowledge. It's dishonest. And it sounds more like he's trying to guess the answer to a quiz than to provide real solutions or dialogue, further insulting those affected by the issue.

(but I posted it as in the michael moore style "hey look at bush" tradition )
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
And a general remark: Why is it that everybody wants to judge the candidates by their oratory gifts?

Well, why would we demand the head of our country be able to think on his feet?

Why would we rather have an exceptional thinker in an exceptional position of authority rather than, say, have Anders (re: "I would answer halfassed as the prez does")?

What you can say is what you are capable of saying, speech, -taken in its larger aspect, including written, computer assisted etc forms, and actions seen as a kind of inscription- is all that we have as a testimony of someone's intelligence.
So why would we want a leader to be able to think on their feet?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Well, why would we demand the head of our country be able to think on his feet?

Why would we rather have an exceptional thinker in an exceptional position of authority rather than, say, have Anders (re: "I would answer halfassed as the prez does"?

What you can say is what you are capable of saying, speech, -taken in its larger aspect, including written, computer assisted etc forms, and actions seen as a kind of inscrition- is all that we have as a testimony of someone's intelligence.
So why would we want a leader to be able to think on their feet?

Are you really serious about this? That speech on a stage surrounded by thousands of people truly show how intelligent you are?

Prepared speeches depends on your speech writers. Answers to unknown questions depends on your informants ("Next thing on the agenda mr. Kerry/president is a conference for minority journalists. You can expect to get questions about these issues...") AND to some degree knowledge. And training, training, training. Not intelligence. Though I would argue that intelligence can be used to train you oratory abilities. But a casual link between the two, No.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #13 of 19
BART: "Fellow students, prepare to be dazzled! [walks to the front of the room] Well, as Mrs. Krabappel already mentioned, the name of the book that I read was Treasure Island. It's about these [describing the book jacket] pirates. Pirateswith patches over their eyesandshiny gold teethand green birds on their shoulders[pause]. Did I mention this book was written by a guy named Robert Lewis Stevenson? And published by the good people at McGraw Hill. So, in conclusion, on the Simpson scale of one to ten, ten being the highest, one being the lowest, and five being average, I give this book a nine. Any questions? [hands go up] Nope? Then I'll just sit down."
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Are you really serious about this? That speech on a stage surrounded by thousands of people truly show how intelligent you are?

Prepared speeches depends on your speech writers. Answers to unknown questions depends on your informants ("Next thing on the agenda mr. Kerry/president is a conference for minority journalists. You can expect to get questions about these issues...") AND to some degree knowledge. And training, training, training. Not intelligence. Though I would argue that intelligence can be used to train you oratory abilities. But a casual link between the two, No.

But he fumbled on the description of the meaning of sovereignty!!

What does sovereignty mean? Mr president of the United States . . . obviously from his record of invading other sovereign states, he doesn't know the meaning of the word!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #15 of 19
He said tribes are given sovereignty. What a fucking insult.
post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
Interesting Kerry-esque equivocation by Bush: "I didn't cut taxes. The Congress cut them." (8:30)
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Found this funny clip from Majority Report Radio through DailyKos. It's a clip of an audience of minority journalists laughing at Bush's flubbing of a complex question. More on the conference and Bush and Kerry's performances here.

Strange that in the second link you didn't notice that the "objective" journalists treated Bush coldly while giving Kerry a standing ovation.

So much for objectivity...

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
It's a column, Nick. Be nice.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Strange that in the second link you didn't notice that the "objective" journalists treated Bush coldly while giving Kerry a standing ovation.

So much for objectivity...

Nick

Yeah, that's right... The "hostile" journalists forced Bush into an idiotic, stumbling answer.

Why oh why are we ruled by these idiots?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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