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Kerry Polling Lead: Electoral College Nightmare - Page 2

post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Well jimmac, you are welcome to think what you want on these matters. I personally think people are a lot more tired of racial scrapegoating, sexual correctness, and most of all the belief that old white men control everything everywhere.

If there is a well that is dry, it is attempting to prode people to give you their money and their own power in some attempt not to be labeled and called names by many on the left. They've cried wolf calling people racist, sexist, homophobes, etc for so long that they are no longer credible. Everyone understands that organizations like the NAACP, NOW, NEA, etc. are purely partisan organizations now.

Nick


This attitude would work.....if we were still living in the 50's.


Oh wait! That's what led us to now!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #42 of 50
Thread Starter 
Weird double post!?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #43 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
This attitude would work.....if we were still living in the 50's.

I knew there were a couple I forgot. The infamous 50's reference and of course wanting all women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen unless we all do exactly as the feminists say.

Thanks for helping!

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I knew there were a couple I forgot. The infamous 50's reference and of course wanting all women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen unless we all do exactly as the feminists say.

Thanks for helping!

Nick


Yeah, Thanks for helping!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Everyone understands that organizations like the NAACP, NOW, NEA, etc. are purely partisan organizations now.

Nick

I think you're overstating what may have an element of truth. Read this passage from the latest issue of Harper's (sorry, not freely available online):
Quote:
PIVEN: They aren't the same thing. It's true that the Democratic Party was the closer of the two parties to the civil rights movement, and to the women's movement, and to the labor movement. But the party was the reluctant target of those movements, not their point of origin. In 1933 the Democrats were regenerated by the labor movement, but that movement had been too weakened by the Depression to emerge during the 1932 campaign. Once in power, though, FDR and the Democrats in Congress were sufficiently alert to those working-class votes to include the right to organize in the first national Industrial Recovery Act. Although this right to organize was puff, and there was no enforcement, it communicated to workers the good news that someday soon they might get a real right to organize. It gave what had been a very weak labor movement a real jolt, and, as that labor movement grew, it then put pressure on FDR for further legislation.


FONER: Also, when Roosevelt came into office in '32--and obviously, anybody could have won for the Democrats in '32--there was a whole set of ideas about economic policy available to him that had been developed over the previous quarter of a century. Again, politics followed what was happening in society.


NADER: Today, though, the outside groups supporting the Democratic Party don't have any leverage at all. Groups like the Sierra Club, the NAACP, the AFL-CIO, are so desperate for Kerry to win that they are making no demands on him.


FONER: Clearly that's a big mistake. But for the foreseeable future, the Democratic Party is going to be the organization that the elements of any kind of progressive coalition will identify with politically. Whatever the desire of black voters for an alternative, they're going to keep voting Democratic. The same is true of labor--small as it is nowadays, but still important--and of the women's movement. Given the nature of our political system, it seems highly unlikely that we can re-create the circumstances of the 1850s, when one of the two major parties disappeared altogether and a new one took its place. That's the last time that such a thing happened in American history. It seems to me that progressives should be fighting for their position in the Democratic Party, because for better or worse, we're going to be stuck with it.
post #46 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
I think you're overstating what may have an element of truth. Read this passage from the latest issue of Harper's (sorry, not freely available online):

I don't think it's overstated at all.

Armstrong Williams

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I knew there were a couple I forgot. The infamous 50's reference and of course wanting all women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen unless we all do exactly as the feminists say.

Thanks for helping!

Nick

Yes. Thank you, feminist movement, for helping.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I don't think it's overstated at all.

Armstrong Williams

Nick

But what do you think about that exchange between Foner, Piven, and Nader? They talk about how left-wing groups are now merely deferring to the party rather than exerting pressure on it. So you're right to an extent-- they are partisan in that sense. But there's also a sort of "natural" affiliation between progressive groups and the party. So perhaps partisanship hasn't changed much-- rather, the roles of left wing groups within the party have changed.
post #49 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
But what do you think about that exchange between Foner, Piven, and Nader? They talk about how left-wing groups are now merely deferring to the party rather than exerting pressure on it. So you're right to an extent-- they are partisan in that sense. But there's also a sort of "natural" affiliation between progressive groups and the party. So perhaps partisanship hasn't changed much-- rather, the roles of left wing groups within the party have changed.

It has moved beyond deferring to the party on some matters. If they were truly pursuing the issues they claim at this point, they would attempt to hold the party responsible, or at a minimum pretend to shop around their votes or endorsements in an attempt to get concessions from the party on the matters they claim to represent.

I'm sure you are aware of the winner take all process that forges consensus within not only the government, but also the party platforms and the issues they each deal with. For example neither party is 100% pro-life or choice. They are probably 65-70% so. There is another 30%+ that hold the opposite view, but cannot force it on to the party. However the point is that they should be able to find representation in groups like this, but now they cannot because the groups are purely partisan.

Nader for example has mentioned the large number of people with progressive views who are tossed out of the Democratic party because they are either pro-life or pro-gun. But the NRA or NARAL will take them and their views regardless of party.

Take homosexual marriage. I would bet that the Democratic party has about 40-45% support for marriage while the Republican party has say 20-25%. Any group that would toss away the 20-25% of Republicans is not truly serving it's cause.

That is what has happened with these groups. They have tossed away blocks of people in order to pursue partisanship above their issues at that point. Regardless of the percentages or their previous natural affiliations, this is what they do now.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Everyone understands that organizations like the NAACP ... are purely partisan organizations now.

Maybe because over 90% of the Black community doesn't support Bush. According to you, apparently, there's no rational or practical reason for that.
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