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TS reports on new imac specs - Page 6

post #201 of 698
8/14/04 at 10:04am
Quote:
There sure is a lot of noise about the GPU in these machines.

I wonder why...



Powerful smack somebody is smokin' if they're defending an Nvidia 52mx (heh) in the high end or mid-iMac specs. I suppose you'll be buying one of these, Programmer?

I'm almost okay with that in the entry level machine. That would be competitve with what's around in PC World here in the UK. Most sub-£1K machines have agp or naff graphics cards. But knowing that Apple will price iMacs upto £1600 or more?

But in the mid and high end iMac? Pathetic. And the outcry shows how many more people feel about this.

512 megs of ram. £44.
Dual Sided Read/Write Superdrive. £50 ish.
200 gig Hard drive £72.
Radeon 9600xt 256 megs £110.

Add 'em up and you get £270. Apple probably gets better rates than that.

PC Shuttles and many Wintel laptops/Mac laptops have good graphics in tight spaces.

Stick anyone of the above items in to beef up the specs.

512 megs in the base model.
Superdrive in the base model.

9600 in the mid model.

200 gig in the high end model.
Radeon 9700 in the high end model.

Yeesh. The Powerbook has a 9700 in it.

For very little price difference, Apple has a much perkier iMac 3.

For about an extra £50-75...the entry level looks okay.
For an extra £100 the mid-model looks okay.
For an extra £200 the top end is more deserving of the name.

It's the scrimping nature of Apple.

Decking out iMacs and PowerMacs with 256 megs of ram is obscene considering the price premium.

Crap graphics cards in a PowerMac top of the line. £2,100 and no monitor. A budget graphics card.

It's clearly Apple sticking it to their 'fans' in the ass because they know they can. Apple wouldn't survive two minutes in the PC market. They had their ass handed to them when they tried cloning their Mac.

I'm a consumer Programmer and I expect better from Apple who are clearly smokin' their own brand of crack. BMW comparisons by Apple? Then why no use quality components?

If they're going to charge crack-pipe prices then it's okay for consumers to expect crack-pipe specks.

We'll see if the 'new' iMacs sell any better than the old ones after the 1st two quarters before certain people blame slack sales on laptops...

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #202 of 698
8/14/04 at 10:09am
Applenut

1. 5 billion is a lot of money but Apple would be lucky to pull a million dollars in interest in a qtr. The numbers just aren't high enough to really factor into the 67 million profit.

2. Custom design. If Apple used ATX cases and licensed chipsets from Intel they'd obtain a higher ration of revenue/profit. They won't sacrifice their looks though and I'm glad for that at this time and date.

3.Yes and that's not a bad thing. All companies face times when their products plateau. The quickest way to revive is to generate new income. The iPod/iTMS is doing what the newton could never do. Bring in money.

4. 3 million for a company isn't big. It's a POV thing. To you 3 million would look great in your bank account. To Apple who had restructering cost of 6 million alone in the qtr 3 mill isn't a huge number.

5. I'm not suprised at all. Consumers have plenty of choices for low cost PCs now. The consumer "Gold Rush" is over. No amount of GPU or CPU improvements is going to double any Macintosh sales. Apple needs to diversify because the sales really are going to remain static or improve slightly.

6. No Apple doesn't group the iMac and eMac sales. Look at the 10k you'll see 60k iMac sales(pitiful) and 180k eMac sales. The eMac outsold the iMac 3:1 but yet you wouldn't know it because everyone on these boards gets amnesia where the eMac is concerned(I guess it's snobbery).


The iMac G5 will do fine. Listening to the neurotic rantings from some of the people on this board will not change the fact that a G5 and 5200fx GPU is faster than ANY Mac of 3 years ago which means that for those in the market for a new Mac they will see improvement in every area and that is all that matters.

$999 computers are NOT Apples savior people..it's your own personal savior and strawman. Many of you are bitching about Apple's iMac because YOU don't wanna pay more money.
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post #203 of 698
8/14/04 at 10:16am
Quote:
Decking out iMacs and PowerMacs with 256 megs of ram is obscene considering the price premium.

Crap graphics cards in a PowerMac top of the line. £2,100 and no monitor. A budget graphics card.

It's clearly Apple sticking it to their 'fans' in the ass because they know they can. Apple wouldn't survive two minutes in the PC market. They had their ass handed to them when they tried cloning their Mac.

I'm a consumer Programmer and I expect better from Apple who are clearly smokin' their own brand of crack. BMW comparisons by Apple? Then why no use quality components?

If they're going to charge crack-pipe prices then it's okay for consumers to expect crack-pipe specks.

We'll see if the 'new' iMacs sell any better than the old ones after the 1st two quarters before certain people blame slack sales on laptops...


Yawn..... what are you a Professional Messageboard poster?

Go freakin do something!!!

Make yourself useful. For Chrissakes you guys whine like a goddamn bunch of bitches. Are your gonads still intact? Buy what you need and stop crying.
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post #204 of 698
8/14/04 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yawn..... what are you a Professional Messageboard poster?

Go freakin do something!!!

Make yourself useful. For Chrissakes you guys whine like a goddamn bunch of bitches. Are your gonads still intact? Buy what you need and stop crying.

Hey, chill down pal. It's just a discussion after all. Everyone can have his own opinion. I think. You know very well you gain nothing by insulting people like that.

By the way, although I am in the camp of people that don't like the new iMac, as TS describe it, I try to see the reason in your arguments. And understand things that perhaps I missed in the first place.
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post #205 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Applenut

1. 5 billion is a lot of money but Apple would be lucky to pull a million dollars in interest in a qtr. The numbers just aren't high enough to really factor into the 67 million profit.

2. Custom design. If Apple used ATX cases and licensed chipsets from Intel they'd obtain a higher ration of revenue/profit. They won't sacrifice their looks though and I'm glad for that at this time and date.

3.Yes and that's not a bad thing. All companies face times when their products plateau. The quickest way to revive is to generate new income. The iPod/iTMS is doing what the newton could never do. Bring in money.

4. 3 million for a company isn't big. It's a POV thing. To you 3 million would look great in your bank account. To Apple who had restructering cost of 6 million alone in the qtr 3 mill isn't a huge number.

5. I'm not suprised at all. Consumers have plenty of choices for low cost PCs now. The consumer "Gold Rush" is over. No amount of GPU or CPU improvements is going to double any Macintosh sales. Apple needs to diversify because the sales really are going to remain static or improve slightly.

6. No Apple doesn't group the iMac and eMac sales. Look at the 10k you'll see 60k iMac sales(pitiful) and 180k eMac sales. The eMac outsold the iMac 3:1 but yet you wouldn't know it because everyone on these boards gets amnesia where the eMac is concerned(I guess it's snobbery).


The iMac G5 will do fine. Listening to the neurotic rantings from some of the people on this board will not change the fact that a G5 and 5200fx GPU is faster than ANY Mac of 3 years ago which means that for those in the market for a new Mac they will see improvement in every area and that is all that matters.

$999 computers are NOT Apples savior people..it's your own personal savior and strawman. Many of you are bitching about Apple's iMac because YOU don't wanna pay more money.

1. for several quarters apple had an operating lost and their interest from their cash reserves was the only thing that allowed them to post a profit. interest on 5 billion dollars is a lot more than you seem to think

3. we were never talking iPod. we were talking poor iMac and mac sales and lack of growth...... and you brought up increased revenue to prove people wrong. but that revenue is mostly because of the iPod

4. 3 million is quite large anyway you put it, but even if they were 70 million in profit that wouldn't mean anything to this discussion that iMac sales have sucked and these rumored specs do little to fix anything

5. apple needs to listen to customers.

6. i see they group iMacs and eMacs and then break the two down after reading further.


If $999 would not help Apple why have they said it would on several occassions. You are completely ignoring that. They openly say they are not offering what consumers want and are buying. That they are overpriced and not competitive in that market. As a shareholder that is troubling. Especially if they don't fix it. You're comments about the eMac's mild success only strengthen support that machines under 1000 are selling better than ones above.
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post #206 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:08am
Apple execs have repeatedly said at recent quarterly conference calls that the day of the desktop is over as far as leading the sales mix at the company. People are moving towards portables. Apple has adjusted to this fact and sells more laptops as a percentage of their sales then other companies. You might even say they are on the leading edge in this regards. Apple cannot and will not put out commodity boxes with off the shelf parts (easily gotten from any number of vendors). What has always made the product unique has been the integration of hardware and software, as you know. This couldn't be done without total control of all aspects of the product. They have done a sensational job in this respect. Are any other iApp similar products as good in their category as Apple? Has the PC press ever said they were? (The answer is no to both). Until the new iMac is actually introduced and the specs are officially announced all this hand-wringing is a bit premature. Unfortunately, no matter what Apple does there will always be negative response from the "faithful". You are not going to get an iMac equivalent to a PowerMac for $1000.
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post #207 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally posted by jaegermann
I love Apple, but if this information is true, its going to hurt apple, what about new users that compare a bottom-line iMac vs a PC Desktop

Dont get me wrong, Id love to see Apple claim a much bigger market share, but for people who know nothing about computers and compare a new iMac and these cheap PCs, and see the HUGE price gap might not care that much how a computer looks.

I might get flamed, but I still think Apple should bring in another line of computers, between the iMac and the PowerMac lines.

I agree, many people would like the fastest single cpu and the ability to have a pci slot or two and a slot for the video card. The hole between massive has everything including 2 cpu's that no consumer needs Powermac and all in one crippled held back in expansion& video iMac is enormous.
For those FX5200 lovers nvidea has 5700,5900,6600,6800,....FX5200 is the bottom step. in otherwords its as cheap as you go unless you go back years to mx. I bet apple doesnt pay $30 for that crap and they use it in powermac. Fx5200 drops frames right away from 640 x 480. anybody use that resolution? a decent card should be able to handle 1024 x 768 with out drops. FX5200 can not do that. A 9600 or 5700 can with the newer titles. so if you want to game on your brang spanking new ives design you are looking at 640 x 480 on a new machine? this is unacceptable even to the casual gamer. Consumers game and fx5200 isnt a consumer chip. Hence anyone who may like Medal of Honor,UT2004,Doom3,Nascar2003................list is growing daily...........looks at this machine and says it cant do it. So its powermac or off to PC land. Apple refuses to fix this market loosing way. on one hand they want developers like Aspyr,Feral,Macsoft,id to make Mac products and then they build a consumer line that cant or just barely can run these 1 year old PC programs. if i was a developer i would be giving them my 2 cents just as if i was ati who has only 1 model to make video cards. Ati should tell Apple we want another model to market the cards we make for you or we are out of here. Apple needs Ati more then Ati needs Apple, sorry marketshare with only 1 product that has cards.This would force Apple to a nvidea only scheme and apple would then have to get busy on cards again. let the Flames ignite.
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post #208 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:23am
Quote:
Go freakin do something!!!

...what, so you can congratulate yourself on being right..?

It's my day off.



Say, don't you post here way more than I do Mr. 'Howmuch'?

Lemon Bon Bon

PS. I thought my points were valid...for a little more £ Apple can make the iMac 3 alot more appealing at the mid and hi price points.
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post #209 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:27am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
News flash. The only people who care about high-performance with their games are... gamers.

Most people, the vast majority of people, really don't care. They buy computers to work, not to play games. For games, get a PS2 or XBox. Really. You'll be ahead of the game.

The iMac is for the majority of people who... you guessed it... don't care about frame rate on the latest FPS. They don't get their egos wrapped up in it, they just want to do work.

Oh, and the optical-free, low-GPU lowest end iMac? Perfect for education and businesses... that's a whole new market area for Apple, and one that... wait for it... couldn't give a rat's ass about games.

Sounds like what you want is a top-end gaming platform for a budget price. You don't get that from Dell, why do you expect it from Apple?

Now, you can argue that Dell offers you the ability to upgrade that lowend GPU to something of your choice, and you'd be right. BTO on the graphics card would be nice, but again, no one but a small segment of the population really truly cares. Most folks will be more than happy with the low end... because it's all they need. There are only two things most people ever upgrade on their systems, no matter how much internal expansion there is: hard drives, and memory. That's it. That's what the market has shown time and time again. Uber-expandable units just aren't worth the engineering effort for most consumers, but those same consumers buy into the concept that they need the extra expansion because the 'experts' tell them they do. Who are the experts? Spec whores. It's like taking car purchasing advice from street racers.
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post #210 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:31am
1. That explains a little bit of cash but cannot account for more than 10 million. Which still means Apple made a 57 million profit despite having a sucktastic iMac and losing more ground in edu. Creative accounting is always fun but a profit is a profit.

3. What does it matter. I don't where Apple gets the money I just care that they turn a profit. That means R&D is funded and people are paid so they stay. A far cry from the pre Jobs days when Apple had no talent and billions in losses no matter how you "accounted"

4. I only brought up the 3 million due to it's proximity to 70 million. It makes for a trivial arguement. iMac sales have indeed sucked. Some people took to the iLamp shape while others did not. Personally I wasn't a fan of the white color. Too much like an appliance.


5. Customers are wholly uneducated to know the market dynamics of this industry. They will merely say they want x featues for x price without knowing the logistics of creating such a device. Customer requests should always be balanced with what is actually feasible.

6. Yes they list something like 240k+ for both so neither of us where wrong really.

$999 Macs are available. The eMac yet people ignore it because it has a CRT? Makes no sense because the average CRT looks better than the average LCD IMO. The dreams of a iMac LCD at $999 being some hot seller is fallacious. The eMac pretty much proves that at that level, the so called sweet spot, sales are ok but not gang busters. Yes computers under $999 sell more because edu will not pay more for computers. Apple cannot get agressive on the low end until they improve their licensing revenues. No company exists to soley sell sub $799 computers ..there's no money in it. To have a loss leader you have to have the potential for a big payoff. Where is Apple's potential? Final Cut Pro? Nyet. OSX? Nada.

Remember people 80% of Microsofts revenue/profits come from two product lines. Windows and Office. Apple by not serializing OSX loses thousands. Makes you wonder how many people complaining about GPUs in iMacs have multiple machines running OSX from one purchased copy.

the art of the Mac whine is that you focus on where you're unhappy and fail to give any respect to where Apple does well. THAT is the nature of the consumer. To consume.
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post #211 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:32am
Hmmm, what do we have here? A 64 bit '3 gig' performer with 512 megs of ram, a decent graphics card and a Samsung monitor (17 inch flat or 19 inch CRT, take yer pick...).



Quote:
Price Roundup




AMD Athlon XP System

Case: Aspire X-Dreamer II (with 350W PSU) - $54
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Retail - $165
Cooling: included Retail HSF - $0
Motherboard: MSI K8T Neo-FSR - $83
Memory: 512-MB Corsair Value PC3200 DDR - $82
Hard Drive: 80GB Western Digital SE (8-MB) - $64
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon 9800 128-MB OEM (128-bit DDR) - $160
Monitor: Samsung 955DF - $185
Sound Card: 6-Channel Integrated - $0
Speakers: Logitech Z640 6-Piece Speaker System - $49
CD/DVD-ROM: AOpen COM5232 Combo Drive - $43
Communications: Onboard LAN - $0
Mouse: Microsoft Intellimouse Optical - $15
Keyboard: Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard - $15
Operating System: Windows XP Home - $84


Total: $999


Intel Pentium 4 System

Case: Aspire X-Dreamer II (with 350W PSU) - $54
CPU: Pentium 4-2.8E GHz Prescott (800) Retail - $177
Cooling: included Retail HSF - $0
Motherboard: MSI 865PE NEO2-PFS Platinum - $80
Memory: 2 x 256-MB PC3200 DDR - $82
Hard Drive: 80GB Western Digital - $56
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon 9800 128-MB OEM (128-bit DDR) - $160
Monitor: Samsung 955DF - $185
Sound Card: 6-Channel Integrated - $0
Speakers: Logitech Z640 6-Piece Speaker System - $49
CD/DVD-ROM: AOpen COM5232 Combo Drive - $43
Communications: Onboard LAN - $0
Mouse: Microsoft Intellimouse Optical - $15
Keyboard: Microsoft Multimedia Keyboard - $15
Operating System: Windows XP Home - $84


Total: $1,000

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/...le.php/3394901

Hope on over 'smack talkers' and get educated with what the iMac will be competing with. Value. Power. A decent graphics card for half the price of a high end iMac.

Lemon Bon Bon (Your friendly neighbourhood 'professional poster'...)

8)
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post #212 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
If $999 would not help Apple why have they said it would on several occassions. You are completely ignoring that. They openly say they are not offering what consumers want and are buying. That they are overpriced and not competitive in that market. As a shareholder that is troubling. Especially if they don't fix it. You're comments about the eMac's mild success only strengthen support that machines under 1000 are selling better than ones above.

This is the point right here, Apple knows that the iMac is not selling due to a high price point and outdated/underpowered processor. They have said as much to their stock holders. They need to get a product out under the "i" brand that they spent so much time and money building up brand recognition with that meets the market demands as far as price and performance so that they can efectively compete in that market. Their current offerings do not do that by their own admission. If they do not come out with a product that does address these market demands which they have recognized to their investors they are not only risking continued decline of their sales but also major slides in their stock prices and potential investor litigation.

Quote:
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
Apple execs have repeatedly said at recent quarterly conference calls that the day of the desktop is over as far as leading the sales mix at the company. People are moving towards portables. Apple has adjusted to this fact and sells more laptops as a percentage of their sales then other companies. You might even say they are on the leading edge in this regards. Apple cannot and will not put out commodity boxes with off the shelf parts (easily gotten from any number of vendors). What has always made the product unique has been the integration of hardware and software, as you know. This couldn't be done without total control of all aspects of the product. They have done a sensational job in this respect. Are any other iApp similar products as good in their category as Apple? Has the PC press ever said they were? (The answer is no to both). Until the new iMac is actually introduced and the specs are officially announced all this hand-wringing is a bit premature. Unfortunately, no matter what Apple does there will always be negative response from the "faithful". You are not going to get an iMac equivalent to a PowerMac for $1000.

The day of the desktop may be over to a degree, but the whole "Hub" strategy that Apple is working on with the iPod, Airport Xpress and Xtream, Tiger and XGrid point to a continued market for every houshold for a centrial, non-portable computer to serve as the central storage and synching hub to that digital life. There may be some other device that will come out that will fill this requirement at a more consumer friendly price, but there is not one today and there is no indication that Apple has one in the works or what form it would take. I think that a more realistic view would be that the market for a single household would be one desktop/hub computer and 1-3 portables, as long as those portables offer near desktop performance. One caveat to this is that with the G5 we are once again seeing that it may be neccessary to "split" the processor types from protabe and desktop computers due to heat and energy demands of modern top of the line processors. This will help to build demand for higher performance desktops to run the ever increasing demands that software has on the processor and other subsystems of the computer.
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post #213 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:36am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
You're seriously advocating that Aunt Polly go build her own box? What the hell are you smoking?
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post #214 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:38am
wrong harold, people buy their Macs to do everything,business,photo's movies and even games like me.Im not going to plop down a bunch of cah for machine that cant do it all. fo christs sake just use a 9600 or 5700 as a option. Apple continues the tripping over itself,stumbling along........ go to apple.com/games for more info on mac gaming. Make no mistake FX5200 is cheap crap to build,cheap crap to make and cheap crap to buy. i thought apple wasnt about commodity boxes
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post #215 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:41am
Here are some of the graphics cards Apple could have used:

Quote:
ATI Video Card Price List

Memory Type
Price
Change
Vendor

ATI Radeon 9000 64MB OEM
$50
$1
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9000 128MB OEM
$69
$7
Allstarshop.com

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9000 128MB
$81
$0
Upgrade Nation

ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB OEM
$47
-$4
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB OEM
$79
-$4
Allstarshop.com

ATI AiW Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB
$125
$0
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9200SE 64MB OEM
$41
-$3
Xtreme Gear

ATI Radeon 9200 64MB OEM
$44
$4
NewEgg

ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB OEM
$45
-$1
GameVE.com

Sapphire ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB
$59
$14
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9200 128MB OEM
$65
$0
NewEgg

ATI Radeon 9200 256MB OEM
$75
$0
Allstarshop.com

ATI X300 SE 128MB OEM (PCIe)
$99
n/a
Ajump.com

ATI Radeon 9500 64MB OEM
$95
$0
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9500 128MB OEM
$125
$16
Allstarshop.com

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9500 128MB
$157
$0
Upgrade Nation

ATI X300 128MB OEM (PCIe)
$129
n/a
Ajump.com

ATI Radeon 9600SE 128MB OEM
$64
$0
Xtreme Gear

ATI Radeon 9550 128MB OEM
$74
$0
GameVE.com

ATI Radeon 9600 128MB OEM
$94
$0
NewEgg

ATI Radeon 9600 256MB OEM
$103
$0
NewEgg

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9600 "EZ" 128MB
$124
$10
NewEgg

ATI AiW Radeon 9600 128MB
$140
-$31
NewEgg

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB
$124
-$3
NewEgg

Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB
$131
-$2
ZipZoomFly

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9600 Pro "EZ" 256MB
$127
-$16
GameVE.com

ATI Radeon 9600XT 128MB OEM
$136
-$7
NewEgg

Gigabyte ATI Radeon 9600XT 128MB
$149
$0
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB OEM
$152
-$7
GameVE.com

ATI AiW Radeon 9600XT 128MB
$193
-$27
GameVE.com

ATI X600 Pro 128MB (PCIe)
$168
n/a
Monarch Computer

ATI X600 XT 128MB (PCIe)
$224
n/a
Monarch Computer

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB OEM
$189
$10
Allstarshop.com

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB
$219
$0
ZipZoomFly

ATI AiW Radeon 9700 128MB OEM
$199
-$10
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9800SE 128MB OEM
$130
-$4
NewEgg

Sapphire Radeon 9800 (128-bit) 128MB
$166
-$8
Allstarshop.com

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB OEM
$196
-$3
GameVE.com

MSI ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
$198
-$11
ZipZoomFly

Sapphire ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
$219
$5
Allstarshop.com

ATI AiW Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB OEM
$271
-$48
Allstarshop.com

ATI AiW Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
$272
-$60
Xtreme Gear

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB
$259
-$9
Xtreme Gear

ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB OEM
$350
-$48
GameVE.com

PowerColor ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB
$350
-$49
Xtreme Gear

ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256MB
$410
-$10
Xtreme Gear

Celestica Radeon X800 Pro 256MB
$409
-$10
Xtreme Gear

Gigabyte Radeon X800 Pro 256MB
$413
-$8
GameVE.com

Gigabyte Radeon X800 XT 256MB
$545
$0
Xtreme Gear

Visiontek Radeon X800 XT 256MB
$583
n/a
GameVE.com

ASUS Radeon X800 XT 256MB
$586
$0
Ajump.com



Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #216 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:43am
Quote:
wrong harold

Who's 'harold'?



Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #217 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:44am
All I can say is that the fact that TS reports the new iMac is like the Sony Vaio, is unquestionably confirmation that the screen pops out to a tablet computer.
These is NO WAY IN HELL Apple would make such an ugly compromise in design unless it had a real revolutionary aspect to it.

And THAT is the truth !!!
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post #218 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:44am
Seems Apple thinks a soldered on Fx5200 is perfect for everyone. sort of like steve and TV.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #219 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:45am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
wrong harold, people buy their Macs to do everything,business,photo's movies and even games like me.Im not going to plop down a bunch of cah for machine that cant do it all.


For *YOU*, 'can't do it all' includes games.

For *ME*, 'can't do it all' includes high-end software development tools.

For *SOMEONE ELSE*, 'can't do it all' includes dual G5s at the maximum clockrate for weather simulations.

Point: your worldview of what a machine *HAS* to have is very narrow, and you're in the minority of computer consumers. Get over it.

1) The machine hasn't shipped.

2) We don't know for sure what the specs will be.

3) Most people *really* don't care about the l33tness of the GPU. Really.

4) This entire argument is pretty pointless and silly until we know precisely what is in the machines, and even then it will depend on the price points involved.

5) Have fun kiddies.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #220 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:45am
Quote:
hought apple wasnt about commodity boxes

\

So why do they use the worst possible commodity crap in the sexiest cases?

Gold ring in pig snout.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #221 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:48am
...and just in case anybody felt I wasn't being an Ati fan-boy...

Quote:
NVIDIA Video Card Price List

Memory Type
Price
Change
Vendor

Apollo GeForce4 MX440-8X 64MB
$38
-$2
GameVE.com

eVGA GeForce4 MX440-8X 64MB
$41
$2
Xtreme Gear

Apollo GeForce4 MX440-8X 128MB
$58
-$1
NewEgg

Gigabyte GeForce FX 5200 128MB
$63
$0
Allstarshop.com

MSI GeForce FX 5200 128MB
$62
-$3
GameVE.com

Apollo GeForce FX 5200 256MB
$81
n/a
GameVE.com

Albatron GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 128MB
$129
n/a
Xtreme Gear

XFX GeForce FX 5500 256MB
$95
-$1
Xtreme Gear

XFX GeForce FX 5600XT 128MB
$86
n/a
GameVE.com

Albatron GeForce FX 5600XT 128MB
$89
-$3
NewEgg

XFX GeForce PCX 5300 128MB
$91
n/a
Xtreme Gear

Gainward GeForce FX 5600 256MB
$98
n/a
Allstarshop.com

AOpen GeForce FX 5700LE 128MB
$101
n/a
GameVE.com

eVGA GeForce FX 5700 128MB
$120
-$7
Xtreme Gear

MSI GeForce FX 5700 128MB
$135
-$5
GameVE.com

AOpen GeForce FX 5700 256MB
$129
$0
Ajump.com

XFX GeForce FX 5700 256MB
$145
$0
Xtreme Gear

XFX GeForce PCX 5750 256MB
$157
n/a
GameVE.com

eVGA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB
$173
$0
GameVE.com

Albatron GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 128MB
$184
n/a
GameVE.com

eVGA GeForce FX 5900XT 128MB
$170
-$16
Monarch Computer

ChainTech GeForce FX 5900XT 128MB
$173
-$1
GameVE.com

MSI GeForce FX 5900XT 128MB
$186
$0
Xtreme Gear

Albatron GeForce PCX 5900 128MB
$229
n/a
Ajump.com

eVGA GeForce FX 5900 128MB
$259
$0
ZipZoomFly

eVGA GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256MB
$410
-$7
Z-buy.com

ASUS GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256MB
$395
$27
Computer3G

Gigabyte GeForce FX 5950 Ultra 256MB
$347
-$13
GameVE.com

XFX GeForce FX 5950 Ultra 256MB
$369
-$2
Xtreme Gear

Leadtek GeForce FX 5950 Ultra 256MB
$381
$0
Computer3G

PNY GeForce 6800 128MB
$280
-$17
GameVE.com

eVGA GeForce 6800 128MB
$282
-$17
Xtreme Gear

Leadtek GeForce 6800 128MB
$299
-$5
NewEgg

MSI GeForce 6800 128MB
$289
n/a
Xtreme Gear

XFX GeForce 6800 128MB
$287
n/a
ZipZoomFly

AOpen GeForce 6800GT 256MB
$454
-$1
GameVE.com

Gigabyte GeForce 6800GT 256MB
$418
$0
Xtreme Gear

PNY GeForce 6800GT 256MB
$408
$13
GameVE.com

XFX GeForce 6800GT 256MB
$405
$10
GameVE.com

AOpen GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
$545
$0
Ajump.com

ASUS GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
$599
$0
Ajump.com

EVGA GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
$547
$2
GameVE.com

Gigabyte GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
$539
$0
GameVE.com

MSI GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
$598
n/a
Xtreme Gear


Say, aint those FX 52 cards real dirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt cheap?



Lemon Bon Bon

PS. I wonder how much $38 is in £?
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #222 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:51am
Quote:
NO WAY IN HELL Apple would make such an ugly compromise in design unless it had a real revolutionary aspect to it.

And THAT is the truth !!!

You have seen the eMac haven't you?

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #223 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:53am
Quote:
Hope on over 'smack talkers' and get educated with what the iMac will be competing with. Value. Power. A decent graphics card for half the price of a high end iMac.

Where's iLife? Geez it sure is nice to not have to worry about dealing with Apple Support. Glad I get to rid myself of the silly notion that people actually want ONE company to call if there is a problem. I'd much rather deal 10 different companies for support. Let's spread the wealth

Quote:
You're seriously advocating that Aunt Polly go build her own box? What the hell are you smoking?

That banality of some people on these boards is astounding. Like I said Message Board Pros. They can whip up a Newegg or Pricewatch system quicker than a jiffy.

Don't we go through this every freakin' time with the same usual suspects? It's like these people haven't bought a computer in 3 freakin' years because they're in perpetual "I'm not happy with the lack of x feature I'm waiting for the next revision"

fuggit. You all can complain and sit on your asses. Next year I'm getting the Production Suite and learning some stuff and I don't give a damn about what PCs offer. I don't care if my GPU doesn't calc a gigatexel as fast as the whizbang card of the day.

Some of you should be ashamed. Mike Matas came on these boards as a teen who couldn't spell to save his life and now he has mikematas.com and delicious-monster.com at 18 running his own business!! He didn't bitch about marketshare or GPU cards. He just does what he needs to with the products he has at hand. I'm ashamed that it's taken me this long to get my arse in gear. Maybe some of you all should do the same and stop pining over PCs. They aren't going anywhere ..and neither is Apple.
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post #224 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:55am
hmurchison
Senior Member
Posts: 4019

Say, looks like you're twice as professional as I am.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #225 of 698
8/14/04 at 11:59am
Quote:
Next year I'm getting the Production Suite and learning some stuff and I don't give a damn about what PCs offer. I don't care if my GPU doesn't calc a gigatexel as fast as the whizbang card of the day.

Me too. I don't care what PCs have to offer. I care about what Macs have to offer. I'd love to be able to slot in a bto graphics card with stones instead of peanuts on it.

Your last comment quoted above seems in sharp contrast/at odds to your evil twin who pines for Apple Workstation supremacy...



Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #226 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:01pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Nope, he's just not whining for that Apple Workstation in a sub-$500 cardboard box.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #227 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
hmurchison
Senior Member
Posts: 4019

Say, looks like you're twice as professional as I am.

Lemon Bon Bon

Holy shiza I have no life! LOL.
Look you all know it's nothing personal but come on people.
Underperforming Mac hardware relative to PC standards is the norm. Apple will survive as long as they don't tank like they did in the late 90s.

I dread new Apple announcements because of these flame wars. It's easy to build a PC. If u want to game it's cheap. With Macintosh I want a stable platform that works and has excellent software. There's a time for brute strength and lesser stability and a time for lesser strength and improved stability. OSX offers me an enticing balance.

The iMac G5 might not be the wonderbox everyone is looking for but it will be functional.

hmurchison Professional Message Board poster since 1999
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post #228 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Some of you should be ashamed.



Well, that told me...

Nice emotive rant that has little to do with the thread title/fact I think Apple can improve their iMac mid and hi spec models for very little effort.

A little margin cut here...wholesale price leverage there...

I've illustrated my points.

And Apple is a whole lot bigger company than all of the retailers above, many of whom put together cheap gaming rigs with bang for buck using the very same commodity parts Apple has access to.

On a purely hardware basis...

What's different? The case. And?

(Crickets chirping...)

Lemon Bon Bon

...and Apple did lump their emac and iMac 2 sales together for many a quarter. Not the last. By then, the ghost was given up...

If the eMac sells 3 times the amount of the iMac 2...isn't it telling us all something?

Perhaps that edu and consumer customers want value. And the eMac, some credit to it..., is the closest consumer desktop to deliver. Stick a G5 1.6 in the Superdrive model and it blows the Generation 3 iMac out the water on price. Better still, lose the monitor, make the eMac headless, give me an alu 17 inch (hey, Samsung can do it...£400 quid and you get 19 inch LCD...) and I'll buy one and get some work done and play Doom 3 at 26 frames per second...
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #229 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Me too. I don't care what PCs have to offer. I care about what Macs have to offer. I'd love to be able to slot in a bto graphics card with stones instead of peanuts on it.

Cool LBB there's money to be made.

Honestly Apple in 5 years will be a vastly different company. We can't let the recent success go to our heads. Apple has a market cap of just under $12 billion. Dell has a $87 billion m cap. Apple hasn't cracked 10 billion in revenue in years. Consumer Macs will remain boutique until Apple can rummage up another 5-6 billion in revenue. Apple's position is still too precarious. So I realize that I'm paying more and getting slightly less for a company that I believe in. I realize it won't always be this way.

Cheap Macs for everyone!!! Just not in 2004


Quote:
On a purely hardware basis...

What's different? The case. And?

Case- Custom
Motherboard- Custom designed controllers and slots(airport)

PC- buy chipset from Intel,Via, SiS etc. Decide feature mix. Stick on motherboard. Drop in ATX case with cheesy fascia and cheap PS. Ship mobo "just" like everyone elses.
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post #230 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:18pm
Quote:
With Macintosh I want a stable platform that works and has excellent software.

You don't have to tell me!

I'm typing this on my wife's iBook @ 600 G3 with ATI 16 meg face sucker graphics...and 66 mhz bus...

I like the Mac advantage. I love OS se'X'. Bad ass machine.



The 1.6 gig XP Athlon sits next to me. No, folks, it just sits. I don't like turning it on.

I made my multimedia cd using this and not the athlon using flash, dreamweaver, photoshop etc. Saw too much of the bouncing beach ball at times though...

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #231 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:21pm
Quote:
hmurchison Professional Message Board poster since 1999



That's m'boy...

Lemon Bon Bon

PS. I'm still not letting you off with an mx52 card in any machine costing £1500-1700. Sucks more than windows dat does...

Hey...at least it will look sexy... :P

iMac 3...'lickable'....hmmm...'lickable'...
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #232 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Cool LBB there's money to be made.

Honestly Apple in 5 years will be a vastly different company. We can't let the recent success go to our heads. Apple has a market cap of just under $12 billion. Dell has a $87 billion m cap. Apple hasn't cracked 10 billion in revenue in years. Consumer Macs will remain boutique until Apple can rummage up another 5-6 billion in revenue. Apple's position is still too precarious. So I realize that I'm paying more and getting slightly less for a company that I believe in. I realize it won't always be this way.

Cheap Macs for everyone!!! Just not in 2004


I hear what you're saying. I do think Steve is a strategist. And Apple's revenue and bank balance are increasing. I get it. I do. Honest. But.

But... there are better graphics cards that could be slotted into an iMac top end machine or mid-ranger for comparatively little extra.

At least use the Nvidia removeable laptop graphics slot tech'! C'mon, Apple...give me an olive branch...a sign...a ray of hope...a shaft...(of light...)
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #233 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:28pm
Actually you bring up a good point LBB.

Why does it feel like Apple is going to move through older cards from ATI and Nvidia for the rest of the year? I'm starting to think that Apple has PCI Express next year coming and hasn't committed to buying any new cards until then. A calculated risk that could bit them in the arse and made worse by the iMac delay. Had the iMac shipped in June the market would be different as PCI Express cards weren't shipping in volume.

There's more at play here. I found it odd that the 5200 was used in the powermacs and now possibly in the iMacs. Could be last batch of AGP cards purchased by Apple.

Good lord Mac users have had enough transitions lately. Let us peacefully move to PCI Express and relax a bit.
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post #234 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:34pm
For the record, Intel Extreme graphics aren't all that bad. They are comparable to the original Radeon/Radeon 7500 or GeForce2 MX in performance. There are reports of people breaking 20fps in Doom 3 with them.

The GeforceFX 5200 is CoreImage/Video capable, but because it is such a slow GPU, the benefits will probably be negligible over the CPU. It won't be a fun experience. Faster cores and memory and larger numbers of pipelines will matter.

TS is never wrong. It's time to dump some AAPL before the new iMac hits the fan.
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post #235 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
You have seen the eMac haven't you?

Lemon Bon Bon

Whatyoutalkinabout, Lemon ? ;-)

The EMac looks like a monitor .
The Sony Vaio looks like a an ugly picture frame leaning against a toaster !
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post #236 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:45pm
...once again, Apple feels it necessary to stick it in, twist it, and break it off in their customer's ass.

I hated Apple for forcing me to sell the IIvx for 3 months knowing the Centris 650 was out soon. I was hoping they would grow to respect their customers more over the years, but apparently they haven't.

An FX5200? Christ sakes. Screw Apple.

Hey, want a box in which you can add a PCI card or upgrade the video card? That will be $2k, please.

Its a freaking travesty. The sooner Apple's hardware business fails, the better. Then they'll be forced to survive on their strengths, damn fine software and not bloated margins on crap spec "consumer" models.
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post #237 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
News flash. The only people who care about high-performance with their games are... gamers.


....LOL, do I need to dig up the posts from all the whiners who went on about Quartz Extreme, Core Image, and Core Video requirements?

So, still think Apple should use 3 year old tech in their video cards for $2000? Then we can get a fresh round of whining when Apple throws out the next GPU accessing software that your 1 year old $2000 picture frame can't use cuz Apple INTENTIONALLY stuck it in your ass.
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post #238 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:52pm
I think Hmurchinson believes that if he keeps repeating that the eMac CRT is better than a mid range LCD it will eventually be true.

That's total BS and you know it.

A mid range LCD will exhibit a high contrast ratio (600:1-700:1), and decent refresh (25-35ms), as well as Zero focus problems, perfect geometry, absolutely no moire, no flicker, wide viewing angles of 160 degrees or more, and all while giving off less than a tenth of the retina cooking radiation of a CRT.

The eMac's CRT is also a decidely average shadow mask based design with bad moire and middling refresh (it can't top 85hz at anything past XGA, relegating it to the res of the average 15" LCD, but without any of the benefits.)

The 999 eMac (apart from the superdrive) is a 500 dollar computer with a 300 dollar Apple logo on it.
IBL!
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IBL!
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post #239 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:53pm
I've been thinking about it and i will almost definitely buy the high end iMac.

All it took was a bit of a deeper probe into what i'd actually use a new Mac system. General net browsing, word processing, using the system as a digital hub, iLife, iPod and the stuff that goes with it.

The high end iMac will do all of that. If i want to experiment with video editing (which i do), it will do a perfectly good job of that for the level i'll be using it at.

So... cool.
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post #240 of 698
8/14/04 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
For the record, Intel Extreme graphics aren't all that bad. They are comparable to the original Radeon/Radeon 7500 or GeForce2 MX in performance. There are reports of people breaking 20fps in Doom 3 with them.

The most important thing lots of people overlook is that you can upgrade to a better GPU if you want when you get a PC with Intel Extreme graphics. You will never, ever be able to upgrade the GPU on your iMac or eMac. You will be stuck with that slow GPU for the life of the machine.
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