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The Squeaky Wheel... - Page 2

post #41 of 83
My favourite bit:

Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
. The WMD issue was blown up by the opposition and thrown to the masses

What the flying monkey bollocks are you talking about?

We went to war because of the nexus between terror and WMD. That's why we went to war. That was 100% of Powell's speech to the UNSC. That was the resolution voted on in the UK parliament. That's why we went to war. That's why we went to war.

In your universe, did Powell and Bush and Blair make their speeches because 'the opposition' demanded it, having blown up the issue?

Who threw this issue to the masses? THE OPPOSITION?!!?

Donny Rummy talks to me through the TV. He's my friend. What's that Rummy? You want me to go shoot dogs?
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post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Yeah that would be ideal, except the kind of intel we needed was not available. And that was a result of what presidency? Not this one.

LMAO. Of course, Chalabi's and "Curveball's" was good enough eh? To this date, your hero DUHbya hasn't done shit to improve
intelligence. The irony.
Quote:
I hope that if Kerry gets the job, he will not attack anyone until the facts on the ground are all there. That could be what... 10 to 20 years?

I hope so too. As long as we don't send brave Americans who have the balls to serve, (unlike couch hawks like yourself), to die unnecessarily when there is time to gather more intelligence and build real meaningful coalitions, I'll be happy.
Doubt Kerry is that kind of lying scumbag to do that. But you never know. He might be stupid enough to rely on "intelligence" provided by "Curveball" type "informants" again. Nah.
Quote:
You forgot to stick your tongue out at me. Welcome back to the 4th grade.

Good thing you are there to greet him.
Quote:
Who do you suggest I vote for?

Stick to voting for the kid running for 4th grade class president.

The more I read posts on here, the more I start to believe that indeed moderates and "lefties" are the intellectual elite.
post #43 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
My favourite bit:



What the flying monkey bollocks are you talking about?

We went to war because of the nexus between terror and WMD. That's why we went to war. That was 100% of Powell's speech to the UNSC. That was the resolution voted on in the UK parliament. That's why we went to war. That's why we went to war.

In your universe, did Powell and Bush and Blair make their speeches because 'the opposition' demanded it, having blown up the issue?

Who threw this issue to the masses? THE OPPOSITION?!!?

Donny Rummy talks to me through the TV. He's my friend. What's that Rummy? You want me to go shoot dogs?

Um, go back and read the speeches given and then read the opposition's reaction and note how it is slowly blown out of proportion buy the Dems and the Far Left. Look at the polls in regard to the war along side of the vocal opposition by the left and far left together.

If you don't want to do it yourself, let me know. I will start another thread with links and facts behind my thesis.
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Um, go back and read the speeches given and then read the opposition's reaction and note how it is slowly blown out of proportion buy the Dems and the Far Left. Look at the polls in regard to the war along side of the vocal opposition by the left and far left together.

If you don't want to do it yourself, let me know. I will start another thread with links and facts behind my thesis.

Oh Jesus.

Do you remember Colin Powell's speech to the UNSC? Do you remember that test-tube of 'anthrax' he held up? Do you remember those satellite photographs of 'mobile biological warfare wotnots'?

Here, as a last-ditch attempt to circumvent this terrible dishonesty, is UN Resolution 1441. You will note its heavy emphasis ON CUNTING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

This. Stupid. Sad. Fucking. Mess. Of. A. War. Was. Fought. To. Disarm. Saddam. Of. His. Weapons. Of. Mass. Frigging. Destruction.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX

If you don't want to do it yourself, let me know. I will start another thread with links and facts behind my thesis.

By all means.

Please make sure you reference the stated aims of all UNSCRs and Colin Powell's speech to the council, and the dossiers and parliament resolutions.

Incredible.
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post #46 of 83
Quote:
What's that Rummy? You want me to go shoot dogs?

No no no. Don't hurt innocent animals. You can do something constructive instead. All of mankind must do their part to contribute to rebuilding Afghanistan. Don't shoot dogs, shoot heroin.
post #47 of 83
Totally off topic, I visited your site, and I discovered that I took pictures of the french alp cousin of the Tiger lys : Lys martagon.

Are you happy with PBase, I am tempted to be a member.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX

The whole "Bush lied" thing has been proven wrong, yet poling shows that a huge chunk of the population thought he did. This lie is what all of the current Anti-Bush movement is based on.

Naples X:

Now please prove, conclusively, that Bush didn't lie. You can't, period, even if he never did. It is a meaningless statement that has no logical basis. It is the same as asking the Iraqi regime to prove that they had no WMD. They coudn't, even if they didn't.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #49 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Naples X:

Now please prove, conclusively, that Bush didn't lie. You can't, period, even if he never did. It is a meaningless statement that has no logical basis. It is the same as asking the Iraqi regime to prove that they had no WMD. They coudn't, even if they didn't.

I would be glad to, in another thread and when I have some time.

But, the thread at hand is the fact that our political leadership are jelly-spined chicken littles. The fact that they start politically driven movements with the help of the clueless media with the sole purpose of changing policy and influencing foreign policy.

The overblown and exaggerated consequences of taking out Sadr who, at the time, was a small problem, is now a big problem only threatening to get bigger.

Today: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ationworld-hed

The same outcomes were predicted a year ago, but of course now the prediction are even worse.

Previous: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...4257-1176r.htm

Why our leaders refer to everything as "Holy" this and "Holy" that. They constantly discredit Iraqi's ability to see what is really going on - Al-Sadr has turned that mosque into a military base, against all Muslim sensibilities. A place of worship does not define a faith, that is just silly.

Is the left really that out of touch with reality?
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Um, go back and read the speeches given and then read the opposition's reaction and note how it is slowly blown out of proportion buy the Dems and the Far Left. Look at the polls in regard to the war along side of the vocal opposition by the left and far left together.

If you don't want to do it yourself, let me know. I will start another thread with links and facts behind my thesis.


Funny how myself and many I know personally came to that conclusion on our own!


Lame,, Lame, LAME !
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I would be glad to, in another thread and when I have some time.

But, the thread at hand is the fact that our political leadership are jelly-spined chicken littles. The fact that they start politically driven movements with the help of the clueless media with the sole purpose of changing policy and influencing foreign policy.

The overblown and exaggerated consequences of taking out Sadr who, at the time, was a small problem, is now a big problem only threatening to get bigger.

Today: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ationworld-hed

The same outcomes were predicted a year ago, but of course now the prediction are even worse.

Previous: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...4257-1176r.htm

Why our leaders refer to everything as "Holy" this and "Holy" that. They constantly discredit Iraqi's ability to see what is really going on - Al-Sadr has turned that mosque into a military base, against all Muslim sensibilities. A place of worship does not define a faith, that is just silly.

Is the left really that out of touch with reality?


Oh, god!

I knew towards the end it would start to come down to this!

" When Kerry gets in there the U.S. is going to hell in a handbasket with that little girlyman running the show! "

If this is an example I think it's the other side that's losing touch with sanity.


And no! Since you're so fond of saying Bush didn't lie I'd like you to back that up now ( if you can ). Why should it take time? Shouldn't it be pretty cut and dried? Unless it involves some cooked up, convoluted, explanation to put the blame on someone else. Remember : " The buck stops here! ".

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I would be glad to, in another thread and when I have some time.

But, the thread at hand is the fact that our political leadership are jelly-spined chicken littles. The fact that they start politically driven movements with the help of the clueless media with the sole purpose of changing policy and influencing foreign policy.

The overblown and exaggerated consequences of taking out Sadr who, at the time, was a small problem, is now a big problem only threatening to get bigger.

Today: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ationworld-hed

The same outcomes were predicted a year ago, but of course now the prediction are even worse.

Previous: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...4257-1176r.htm

Why our leaders refer to everything as "Holy" this and "Holy" that. They constantly discredit Iraqi's ability to see what is really going on - Al-Sadr has turned that mosque into a military base, against all Muslim sensibilities. A place of worship does not define a faith, that is just silly.

Is the left really that out of touch with reality?

You do realize you quoted two Conservative publications which essentially say what most of us anti-this-war people have been saying for a year. You've torpedoed your own argument there killer.

Read this again:

Quote:
Previous: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...4257-1176r.htm

Why our leaders refer to everything as "Holy" this and "Holy" that. They constantly discredit Iraqi's ability to see what is really going on - Al-Sadr has turned that mosque into a military base, against all Muslim sensibilities. A place of worship does not define a faith, that is just silly.

Is the left really that out of touch with reality?

emphasis added.

Who are or leaders? Who is in charge of the war? Hmmmm I'd say the Bush admin is. Did you read the UPI article? If you did I don't think you would have used it as a source because it shows the level of incompetence in our military decision makers. The UPI article uses Kennedy's statements as a glue theme but does not indite them as unnecessary or inaccurate. In fact the article closes by say that the statement may actually come true.
Quote:
Saddam's capture, as we predicted at the time in UPI Analysis, turned out to be no more than a hiccup in the ongoing guerrilla war. But Sadr's death could ignite a conflagration. Then, Sen. Kennedy's "Vietnam" rhetoric could be fulfilled almost immediately. It could even turn out far worse.

The fact the Kennedy called the Iraq conflict Bush's Vietnam in no way mitigates the Bush admins responsibility for letting this country turn out the way it has. Bush sent too few troops to keep the peace. Bush allowed the country to fall into pockets of disarray. Bush is responsible for the situation with Sadr, not Sen. Kennedy.

I didn't read the tribune because I was too lazy to go to bugmenot.

This whole thread is sad Naples because as others have pointed out you are trying to hold those against the war to a higher standard than those for it. We who opposed it where right. We did not decide how many troops to send Bush did. We did not decide how to run this war Bush did. We only said nothing good can come of it. That turned out to be true. Instead of looking to Bush for running this war in a slip-shot manner you now point your dirty little finger at us because we where right. The gall is amazing.

Let me say this again--Bush decided to go to war not me. Bush decided to send too few troops to effectivly secure the country after it was toppled not me. Bush has tried to run this war on the cheap not me. Bush is responsible for this war not me. I take credit for seeing the outcome proir to the war and choosing to be against it; however, the responsability for the war and its outcome do not fall at my door step. That responsability falls exclusevly at 1600 Pannsylvania Ave there killer.

Stop pointing your finger at others when you where the one pro war. The responsability for this war and its current standing is yours and your kind because you suppoerted it from the get go without analyzing the outcome. You are to one responsible for Sadr not me. You are responsible for the daily attacks and deaths not me.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #53 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Oh, god!

I knew towards the end it would start to come down to this!

" When Kerry gets in there the U.S. is going to hell in a handbasket with that little girlyman running the show! "

If this is an example I think it's the other side that's losing touch with sanity.


And no! Since you're so fond of saying Bush didn't lie I'd like you to back that up now ( if you can ). Why should it take time? Shouldn't it be pretty cut and dried? Unless it involves some cooked up, convoluted, explanation to put the blame on someone else. Remember : " The buck stops here! ".


let's try to stay on subject.

Hint: I work for a living and our area just got hit by a hurricane and i am exceptionally busy these days, so i can only post in spurts.

I suppose I will have to show proof of this too?
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
let's try to stay on subject.

Hint: I work for a living and our area just got hit by a hurricane and i am exceptionally busy these days, so i can only post in spurts.

I suppose I will have to show proof of this too?


Sorry you have to post between wind gusts!

I work for a living also just at a different time! I don't remember getting cut some slack for working late hours and not being able to post!
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post #55 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
You do realize you quoted two Conservative publications which essentially say what most of us anti-this-war people have been saying for a year. You've torpedoed your own argument there killer.

Read this again:



emphasis added.

Who are or leaders? Who is in charge of the war? Hmmmm I'd say the Bush admin is. Did you read the UPI article? If you did I don't think you would have used it as a source because it shows the level of incompetence in our military decision makers. The UPI article uses Kennedy's statements as a glue theme but does not indite them as unnecessary or inaccurate. In fact the article closes by say that the statement may actually come true.


The fact the Kennedy called the Iraq conflict Bush's Vietnam in no way mitigates the Bush admins responsibility for letting this country turn out the way it has. Bush sent too few troops to keep the peace. Bush allowed the country to fall into pockets of disarray. Bush is responsible for the situation with Sadr, not Sen. Kennedy.

I didn't read the tribune because I was too lazy to go to bugmenot.

This whole thread is sad Naples because as others have pointed out you are trying to hold those against the war to a higher standard than those for it. We who opposed it where right. We did not decide how many troops to send Bush did. We did not decide how to run this war Bush did. We only said nothing good can come of it. That turned out to be true. Instead of looking to Bush for running this war in a slip-shot manner you now point your dirty little finger at us because we where right. The gall is amazing.

Let me say this again--Bush decided to go to war not me. Bush decided to send too few troops to effectivly secure the country after it was toppled not me. Bush has tried to run this war on the cheap not me. Bush is responsible for this war not me. I take credit for seeing the outcome proir to the war and choosing to be against it; however, the responsability for the war and its outcome do not fall at my door step. That responsability falls exclusevly at 1600 Pannsylvania Ave there killer.

Stop pointing your finger at others when you where the one pro war. The responsability for this war and its current standing is yours and your kind because you suppoerted it from the get go without analyzing the outcome. You are to one responsible for Sadr not me. You are responsible for the daily attacks and deaths not me.

Load of bunk!

Our leaders, The Congress, the Senate and this admin all chose to go to war! The only problem is that those that, at the time secretly opposed the war, did not have the brass to stand up and speak their minds and had no intentions of doing it right anyway. Oh yeah, they did afterward, once they knew they were getting some traction with the help of the media. Their approval was based on nothing but a political calculation. The argument could me made that these are the people responsible for this war, because they are so spineless. I see no outcry at all to remove these cowards. Apparently this kind of decision making is OK with you here.

"Our leadership" refers to those in power, executive and legislative, all.

You and your lefty friend are the ones that refuse to lay blame at anyone's feet other than GWB. That's fine. but when/if Kerry or any other Dem gets into office, I am sure you will expect them to be given that vary same treatment, no? From here on out the president holds all the cards and is ultimately responsible for everything and anything that happens under his watch, yes?

If that is your view currently then you have no understanding of how the system was set up to work.
post #56 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Sorry you have to post between wind gusts!

I work for a living also just at a different time! I don't remember getting cut some slack for working late hours and not being able to post!

I am not sure that I ever gave you grief about when or how many times you post. I thought that was one of the benefits of a forum, being able to past at you own leisure, no?
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I am not sure that I ever gave you grief about when or how many times you post. I thought that was one of the benefits of a forum, being able to past at you own leisure, no?


That's the way it's supposed to work.
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post #58 of 83
So, if I'm following you here, Naples:

Before the war turned out like its critics said it would, those opposed were traitors and terrorist sympathizers.

Now that the war has turned out like its critics said it would, the blame lies with those who opposed it because they didn't do a better job of opposing it.

Really nothing to say.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #59 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
So, if I'm following you here, Naples:

Before the war turned out like its critics said it would, those opposed were traitors and terrorist sympathizers.

Now that the war has turned out like its critics said it would, the blame lies with those who opposed it because they didn't do a better job of opposing it.

Really nothing to say.

That's not what I said.

You say "Blame Bush"

I say "Blame Bush, but also blame those who are responsible"

You can't do it with out implicating those that you support.
post #60 of 83
I think this is what they call " Dancing on the head of a pin ".

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post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
That's not what I said.

You say "Blame Bush"

I say "Blame Bush, but also blame those who are responsible"

You can't do it with out implicating those that you support.

Sure I can.

Congress voted to give Bush the authorization to go to war. That authorization explicitly called for exhausting all other possibilities before taking that measure.

Bush is the one who terminated inspections and charged on in.

Or as the Kerry bumper sticker puts it: "I voted to give Bush authorization. Then Bush fucked it up"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #62 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Sure I can.

Congress voted to give Bush the authorization to go to war. That authorization explicitly called for exhausting all other possibilities before taking that measure.

Bush is the one who terminated inspections and charged on in.

Or as the Kerry bumper sticker puts it: "I voted to give Bush authorization. Then Bush fucked it up"

That is an open ended argument.

If the specific steps were laid out for him to accomplish then you may have an argument, but that language was not there.

I am sure that you can guess that Sen. Kennedy's view of "all possibilities" might differ from GWB's, no?

Not only that, the rules have changed and continue to change as far as what is "all possibilities" might mean. The whole "oil-for-food" scandal, does that not shed a different light on some things?

Edit: Meaning that maybe the UN is not the best entity to enforce anything since it seems that they are just as or even more corruptible than those they wish to govern.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
The whole "oil-for-food" scandal, does that not shed a different light on some things?

Edit: Meaning that maybe the UN is not the best entity to enforce anything since it seems that they are just as or even more corruptible than those they wish to govern.

According to Chalabi. Don't forget what happened last time you let him lead you guys around by the nads. Also, last I checked your source (who, incidentally, refuses to provide evidence) was a conivted felon (for fraud) with a warrant for his arrest and, according to US officials, an anti-US spy, all rolled into one.

Who's anti-american now, napes? Nice job regurgitating unsubstantiated info from a con artist enemy of the US. Maybe he'll set you up with a nice home in Iran since you are such a fan of his work.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Totally off topic, I visited your site, and I discovered that I took pictures of the french alp cousin of the Tiger lys : Lys martagon.

Are you happy with PBase, I am tempted to be a member.

Ah tiger lilies are amongst my favorites. But any wildflower will do.

I'm pretty happy with it. There are a few minor shortcomings but nothing major and mostly they are higher end features someone like me does not need. I would recommend it. You can try it out for free for a month with some limitations. I think there are some features that are then not present but at least it gives you an idea of the interface and software.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Ah tiger lilies are amongst my favorites. But any wildflower will do.

I'm pretty happy with it. There are a few minor shortcomings but nothing major and mostly they are higher end features someone like me does not need. I would recommend it. You can try it out for free for a month with some limitations. I think there are some features that are then not present but at least it gives you an idea of the interface and software.

Yes. Your pictures are nice.
post #66 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
According to Chalabi. Don't forget what happened last time you let him lead you guys around by the nads. Also, last I checked your source (who, incidentally, refuses to provide evidence) was a conivted felon (for fraud) with a warrant for his arrest and, according to US officials, an anti-US spy, all rolled into one.

Who's anti-american now, napes? Nice job regurgitating unsubstantiated info from a con artist enemy of the US. Maybe he'll set you up with a nice home in Iran since you are such a fan of his work.

I am not sure what you are talking about.

There are 8 official investigations into the UNOFF program. That is not to even mention the countless reporters and others looking for answers.

Not all of these are based on one man's info. I hope that you don't believe that they are.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...zhuju.asp?pg=2

I know it is not directly related but it points out some interesting facts alongside of some interesting theories.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
That's not what I said.

You say "Blame Bush"

I say "Blame Bush, but also blame those who are responsible"

You can't do it with out implicating those that you support.

Actually, here's you said:

when we're talking about Clinton, you said

Quote:
"Yeah that would be ideal, except the kind of intel we needed was not available. And that was a result of what presidency? Not this one."

When we're talking about Bush, you said:

Quote:
Blame [the president], but also blame those who are responsible

Care to explain why Clinton deserves your wrath but Bush gets a free pass?

Cheers
Scott

PS
On a more serious note, NaplesX, I hope that you and yours are OK down there. It looks awful.
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post #68 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Actually, here's you said:

when we're talking about Clinton, you said



When we're talking about Bush, you said:



Care to explain why Clinton deserves your wrath but Bush gets a free pass?

Cheers
Scott

PS
On a more serious note, NaplesX, I hope that you and yours are OK down there. It looks awful.

No wrath here. Just trying to be fair.

Truth is no-one is perfect. Not Bush, not Clinton and not Kerry. I am so sick of the "Blame Bush/Blame America" garbage.

You know if you applied the same type of logic, you could actually put a heap of blame on Kerry, since he has been a representative on a national level for 30 years. Some seem to give him a pass, forgetting that he was involved in many national security and intel issues over the years. He has some responsibility as to the direction this nation is taking. Arguably more so than Bush. Although really my point is, blame is a never ending game. Let's just fix problems as they come up or work to prevent them, that is what Americans have been good at in throughout history.

I think that Clinton, Bush, and Kerry all are good men and want what is best for their country. I also believe that one of those men has the broader vision of a leader, beyond some lifelong dream to be president or the desire to attain enough power to get the adoration of young women, not that those are bad goals, though. Just that I am not sure that they can coexist in that office post 9/11.

Hey thanks for the kind thoughts. Though my place was generously spared by Charley but it rapidly gets worse as you go north.
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I am not sure what you are talking about.

Stop the presses!
post #70 of 83
BTW: You can't just google your way out of not knowing what you are talking about. The accusations specifically about UN corruption come from documents that Chalabi refuses to let anyone see. Next try try googling for "clue." Or you can just ask your buddy Chalabi when you solidify your anti-american allegiances by moving in with him in Iran.
post #71 of 83
I don't know why I'm so nice to you. Probably because I, like Mr T, pity the foo.
Quote:
There are also allegations that Hussein's revenue diversion was aided by corrupt U.N. officials...It's worth noting that these accusations are entirely based on documents that are purported to be in the possession of none other than Ahmad Chalabi, who has himself been accused of corruption.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...ss/9277127.htm

Stated so plainly even a child could understand.
post #72 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
BTW: You can't just google your way out of not knowing what you are talking about. The accusations specifically about UN corruption come from documents that Chalabi refuses to let anyone see. Next try try googling for "clue." Or you can just ask your buddy Chalabi when you solidify your anti-american allegiances by moving in with him in Iran.

Giant,

I like to look at all thing in life as a learning experience. For example take this place - I used to take things that you said very personal. I used to lash back at you when you made statements like that. I have learned that this place, while being a place that some people go to get away with things that they cannot in real life, most people here are honest and good people. I have even made friends with some that have opposing views to mine.

But one thing sticks out in my mind, that is - Isn't it amazing how freely we all can express our views, no matter how far fetched or ill-conceived they may be, all without the fear that our government will come knocking on our door simply because our views differ from those in power. That is the true definition of freedom, IMO.

I don't know everything and I may be wrong at times, but I have always tried to learn something from everything around me.

So, if you must call me names and hint at my lack of brains so that you get whatever frustrations out, so be it.

As far as Chalabi goes, i am not sure that we dissagree about him that much. I could be wrong.
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
As far as Chalabi goes, i am not sure that we dissagree about him that much.

Well we must, because you are obviously willing to regurgitate unsubstantiated info from man wanted (for fraud, etc) by two countries, has given classified US intelligence to Iran and took advantage of being the bush administration's chief source for intelligence on Iraq (other than the UN) by conducting a disinfo campaign that led american lemmings into this war.

This isn't to say there was no corruption by the UN, it just means that a) we have ZERO evidence of it and b) that you are willing to align yourself with known liars and anti-american spies to further your political agenda.
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
No wrath here. Just trying to be fair.

Truth is no-one is perfect. Not Bush, not Clinton and not Kerry. I am so sick of the "Blame Bush/Blame America" garbage.

The problem is that that's not what you said. At all. You seem willing to blame the previous administration for whatever is convenient, while you insist that the current administration ought to be cut slack.

Quote:
You know if you applied the same type of logic, you could actually put a heap of blame on Kerry, since he has been a representative on a national level for 30 years.

He's only one Senator out of 100. Unless he has some kind of super-vote I'm not aware of.

Quote:
Some seem to give him a pass, forgetting that he was involved in many national security and intel issues over the years.

Again. One Senator. Don't forget the others on the various committees.

Quote:
He has some responsibility as to the direction this nation is taking.

Yes. Because he was involved.

Quote:
Arguably more so than Bush.

No. Bush started this war all on his own. He didn't have to. Kerry wasn't standing behind him, poking him with a pointy stick. This war is Bush's war: he wanted it, the Congress granted him the authority, ultimately, to do it, and he did. And now it's horribly screwed up because a) the NeoCon theory seems to have failed on all accounts and b) Rummy is trying to cram institutional changed down the throat of the military, and those don't seem to have worked, either.

Quote:
Although really my point is, blame is a never ending game.

That's a far cry from "the buck stops here." I swear to God, as I said in another thread, I can't figure you conservatives out. The cognitive dissonance is absolutely palpable. You hated Clinton for the dissembling and refusal to take the blame. And you give Bush a pass for what is TANGIBLY worse. Make up your minds.

Quote:
Let's just fix problems as they come up or work to prevent them, that is what Americans have been good at in throughout history.

Yes. And by the way, welcome to politics: we disagree about how they ought to be fixed or prevented.

Quote:
I think that Clinton, Bush, and Kerry all are good men and want what is best for their country. I also believe that one of those men has the broader vision of a leader, beyond some lifelong dream to be president or the desire to attain enough power to get the adoration of young women, not that those are bad goals, though. Just that I am not sure that they can coexist in that office post 9/11.

I was going to attack this (you can imagine how), but I'll refrain. I think you're right, in some ways. I think Bush is certainly a man of vision. This makes me unpopular among my lefty friends. The problem with Bush's vision is this:

1) It doesn't seem to work.

2) When it doesn't work, he is so determined to be "consistent" that he will not modify it.

Those are your options, if you're a conservative, I guess: you can vote for a flip-flopper who modifies and responds to change and nuance or you can vote for someone so stubborn he doesn't see the quagmire until he's up to his eyeballs in it.

Quote:
Hey thanks for the kind thoughts. Though my place was generously spared by Charley but it rapidly gets worse as you go north. [/B]

I'm seriously glad to hear it. I used to live close to the Gulf Coast (60 miles north of it, actually) and I've seen what hurricanes can do. I hope the cleanup isn't too bad.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #75 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Well we must, because you are obviously willing to regurgitate unsubstantiated info from man wanted (for fraud, etc) by two countries, has given classified US intelligence to Iran and took advantage of being the bush administration's chief source for intelligence on Iraq (other than the UN) by conducting a disinfo campaign that led american lemmings into this war.

This isn't to say there was no corruption by the UN, it just means that a) we have ZERO evidence of it and b) that you are willing to align yourself with known liars and anti-american spies to further your political agenda.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security.../0501delay.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...22/wirq122.xml

I am not sure how pointing out the obvious corruption of the UN and Iraq and France and Russia, makes me a sympathizer of Chalabi.

There is plenty of meat to these investigations that is yet to be revealed.

But the real question is - Do you have anything that pertains to the stated topic of this thread?
post #76 of 83

Earth to Naples! That "list" came from Chalabi and his documents that he has yet to produce. Hell, and those articles are even so old they are still talking about KPMG.

Put google down, take a deep breath, sit back and learn.
post #77 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter

I'm seriously glad to hear it. I used to live close to the Gulf Coast (60 miles north of it, actually) and I've seen what hurricanes can do. I hope the cleanup isn't too bad.

Cheers
Scott

Hey Scott,

I really must say that was a great post. Although we disagree, you made your points and moved on. This is the kind of interaction that can be productive.

I'm not trying to preach but, it is very refreshing when civility rears it's head.

Anyway, as far as cutting W some slack, I would have to say "yeah" - cut him some slack. He has had a lot on his plate since 9/11 and he has dealt with it in true American fashion. But, as most of us know time flies when you are busy. And not only has he been busy trying to secure the endless security holes, he has had to constantly deflect the "Bush lied" crap being fed by his political opponents. he has been busier than Microsoft during a hackers convention. I would say he has done a fairly good job. You can't say he has been sitting around smoking cigars with the female interns.

He and his policies have freed 50 million people, or if you are a pessimist, he has at least has given them a fighting chance. You can say that he didn't kiss enough ass, but he did kick some. Putting aside political views, he has brought back some dignity to the oval office. No more jeans and T-shirts and food fights in the White House.

The only real responsibility of the government is to protect it citizens from outside harm, and you have to at least give him credit for trying to fulfill that responsibility.

This Al-Sadr thing pisses me off so much that I scream at the TV when I hear this crap. It was a mistake that this admin made not to get him. I hope he takes the guy out. I just don't see it happening.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
This Al-Sadr thing pisses me off so much that I scream at the TV when I hear this crap. It was a mistake that this admin made not to get him. I hope he takes the guy out. I just don't see it happening.

You know that your buddy Chalabi aligned himself with al-sadr, don't you?

As for the rest of your thread, it's an attack based on a clearly false premise, so you should be thankful anyone is feeding you.
post #79 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Earth to Naples! That "list" came from Chalabi and his documents that he has yet to produce. Hell, and those articles are even so old they are still talking about KPMG.

Put google down, take a deep breath, sit back and learn.

Did you miss the part were they actually discovered a sophisticated money laundering system. Who cares where they got the tip. It is corruption. Just because Chalabi is a double/triple turncoat, does that take away from the rampant corruption throughout the UN and it's members?

Where am I wrong?

I used those old links on purpose btw.
post #80 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
You know that your buddy Chalabi aligned himself with al-sadr, don't you?

As for the rest of your thread, it's an attack based on a clearly false premise, so you should be thankful anyone is feeding you.

Now I did not know that he aligned himself with Sadr, yet I can believe it. He is a scum-bag. They tend to flock like that.

I think the thread is valid based on my observations, but you are obviously free to disagree.
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