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How long must we pamper Moqtada Sadr?

post #1 of 63
8/15/04 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
This guy is gaining support and importance because we are dancing around his testicles. The more we let him prolong this standoff, the more power he gets. He knows that we are holding back and that we will not go get him. The way I see it, when he decided to use a shrine as a bunker, he desicrated that shrine. He and he alone is now responsible for its fate. I know that noone here will agree with me, but I think that it is time to take the gloves off. We should bomb the shrine very, very hard and hopefully kill Moqtada Sadr in the process. This will send a strong message to all that we have had enough game playing. We must tuffen up to break the back of the terrorist insurgency.
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post #2 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
This guy is gaining support and importance because we are dancing around his testicles. The more we let him prolong this standoff, the more power he gets. He knows that we are holding back and that we will not go get him. The way I see it, when he decided to use a shrine as a bunker, he desicrated that shrine. He and he alone is now responsible for its fate. I know that noone here will agree with me, but I think that it is time to take the gloves off. We should bomb the shrine very, very hard and hopefully kill Moqtada Sadr in the process. This will send a strong message to all that we have had enough game playing. We must tuffen up to break the back of the terrorist insurgency.

Well...I agree. The lesson we should have learned is that overwhelming force has to be used. We made that mistake in Fallujah. We should have crushed them.
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post #3 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:14am
Do you have any links to evidence that we're pampering him?

Just so you know, international law does say that in a war you must protect the enemy's historical or religious sites unless the sites are within a certain number of feet of military targets.

EDIT:
Quote:
Mr Sadr has set out conditions for an end to the clashes between his men and the Iraqi-US force.

Definitely time to start the bombing!

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post #4 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:26am
Thread Starter 
Links that we are pampering him? He is still alive. That says it all.


He made the shrine a militarty target when he set up his milita HQ inside of it.


Let me tell you how this will unfold. Moqtada Sadr will continue to arm his followers with pop guns and send them out to be killed by American marines. Meanwhile he will sit on his fat butt in the shrine. When he feels that his little game is about to be brought to an end, he will surrender and save his butt just like SH did. He will then be patronized and and given some "role in the process" of rebuilding Iraq. He will be a pain in the butt for many years, but will have succeded in increasing his power base.
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post #5 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:27am
Believe me if Bush " takes the gloves off " now it's a guarantee he'll leave the Whitehouse behind.
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post #6 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:33am
If the US bombs that "shrine", it just might ignite a general uprising among the Shiites. Sistiani might get very pissed of.
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post #7 of 63
8/15/04 at 10:57am
Or, we could stop "pampering" muslims in general and just nuke the whole region and be done with it.

See, but there's this little thing called consequences. Massive displays of force might provide sexual gratification for a certain strata of society, but unless you pick your battles and forces you just damage your own effort.

For instance, the initial invasion of Iraq and its "shock and awe" sure stiffened a lot of right wing manhood, but because it was the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons it has left us in this highly untenable position.
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post #8 of 63
8/15/04 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Or, we could stop "pampering" muslims in general and just nuke the whole region and be done with it.

See, but there's this little thing called consequences. Massive displays of force might provide sexual gratification for a certain strata of society, but unless you pick your battles and forces you just damage your own effort.

For instance, the initial invasion of Iraq and its "shock and awe" sure stiffened a lot of right wing manhood, but because it was the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons it has left us in this highly untenable position.

What Addabox said
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post #9 of 63
8/15/04 at 12:12pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
What Addabox said

What the knife carrying frencie said
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post #10 of 63
8/15/04 at 12:26pm
Dude, so me and my boys went out in my pickup this weekend and cleared house on the cuban gang that's been threatenin' my girls. It was a breeze, yo, with all the fire power big daddy can get us. At the same time though, our territory musta shrunk because all we get now from the dames in the ghetto is rotten fruit and a few middle fingers. seems clearin' house doesn't mean what we thought it meant, and now my pool of chicas is smaller...
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post #11 of 63
8/15/04 at 2:33pm
Go ahead. Bomb the mosque. It's only where Muslims worship.
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post #12 of 63
8/15/04 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Go ahead. Bomb the mosque. It's only where Muslims worship.

Yeah, and its hardly even a mosque... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshed_Ali
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post #13 of 63
8/15/04 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Go ahead. Bomb the mosque. It's only where Muslims worship.

Does "worship" mean something different in Arabic?
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post #14 of 63
8/15/04 at 7:11pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, it means hide and shoot at Americans. Sadr himself desicrated the place. Get off the "we must respect this holy place crap". if I go to my Church and start shooting out the windows at cops, they will come in and get me. The Church community will be mad at me, not them. Sadr is a power hungry manipulative man and forunately for him there are enough "useful idiot" leftists to let him get away with his plan.
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post #15 of 63
8/15/04 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Yeah, it means hide and shoot at Americans. Sadr himself desicrated the place. Get off the "we must respect this holy place crap". if I go to my Church and start shooting out the windows at cops, they will come in and get me. The Church community will be mad at me, not them. Sadr is a power hungry manipulative man and forunately for him there are enough "useful idiot" leftists to let him get away with his plan.

Uh huh. And how about if you start shooting at muslims from St. Peter's in Rome and the muslims blow it up? I mean, you were shooting and all, so no problem, right?
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post #16 of 63
8/15/04 at 7:47pm
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I would expect to be extracted and arrested and the same should be done to him.
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post #17 of 63
8/15/04 at 8:28pm
I know you're sad because Sadr has outlined a path to peace and that means less guns, but it's revealing that you'll ignore this fact.
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post #18 of 63
8/16/04 at 12:36am
Read these.

Incidentally, if you can't see how the American-led invasion of Sadr's country and the institution of an army for Shia nationalists are sort of, you know, linked, it's time you learned a thing or two about responsibility.
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post #19 of 63
8/16/04 at 12:55am
Quote:
"We received a report that a whole battalion (in Najaf) threw down their rifles," said one high-ranking defense ministry official, who didn't want his name published because he's not an official spokesman. "We expected this, and we expect it again and again."

...."I'm ready to fight for my country's independence and for my country's stability," one lieutenant colonel said. "But I won't fight my own people."

"No way," added another officer, who said his brother - a colonel - quit the same day he received orders to serve in the field. "These are my people. Why should I fight someone just because he has a difference in opinion about the future of the country?"

....when [1st Sgt. Khalid] Ali was asked about the number of guardsmen who have quit since al-Sadr's latest uprising, U.S. Army 1st Lt. Vernon Sparkmon cut him off.

"Certain things, you can't discuss," Sparkmon told Ali. "If somebody asks that question, that's, like, classified stuff."

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9409919.htm
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post #20 of 63
8/16/04 at 5:16am
Thread Starter 
Seems to me that the American and Iraqi soldiers are showing alot more respect towards this shrine than those who are using it as a military base. I don't think the people in that shrine give a crap about Iraq or Islam. They care about there own hunger for power. Do I want the shrine destroyed? Of course not. I know that it is precious to many people. I do , however, want Sadr and his goons pulled out of there . You see. they want the shrine destroyed . Damage to that shrine will increase their power by making their case that this is a "war against Islam".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
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post #21 of 63
8/16/04 at 9:55am
Why dont we just surround the mosque and starve them out?
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post #22 of 63
8/16/04 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
We should bomb the shrine very, very hard and hopefully kill Moqtada Sadr in the process. This will send a strong message to all that we have had enough game playing. We must tuffen up to break the back of the terrorist insurgency.

Yes, it would surely send the right message to the iraqis to kill Muqtada Al Sadr. It would clearly show them that nothing has changed since Saddam Hussein has killed the father of Muqtada Al Sadr in the last Shia-riot against Hussein.

The best option for the US-occupation-force to solve this crisis is to offer Al Sadr complete amnesty and to allow him to found a party and to run for office in the elections of 2005 in exchange for complete disarmament and dissolvement of his militia.

Nightcrawler
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post #23 of 63
8/16/04 at 2:07pm
And let us simply foret that the shrine is not only revered by millions it is also over a thousand years old . . . . older than the United States by 800 years . . . let's just forget that throwing our wieght around indiscriminately is the reason we are in this mess in teh first place and continue to do it again . .. continue to be stupid idiots without a thought in our heads!!!
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post #24 of 63
8/17/04 at 2:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You see. they want the shrine destroyed . Damage to that shrine will increase their power by making their case that this is a "war against Islam".

Congratulations. You've now arrived at the obvious conclusion that everyone else got immediately. Well not everyone, someone, I can't remember who, was suggesting that:

Quote:
We should bomb the shrine very, very hard
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post #25 of 63
8/17/04 at 9:26am
Why are people still responding to this troll?
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post #26 of 63
8/17/04 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightcrawler
The best option for the US-occupation-force to solve this crisis is to offer Al Sadr complete amnesty and to allow him to found a party and to run for office in the elections of 2005 in exchange for complete disarmament and dissolvement of his militia.

I'm with you there. It's frustrating to see soldiers get killed in this in-and-out, cat-and-mouse game, negotiating one minute, advancing the next, withdrawing the third. But we've: 1. avoided a bloodbath, 2. contained the uprising, 3. thanks to 1 and 2, given time for most Shiites to get tired of al-Sadr, and 4. left open the possiblity to bring al-Sadr into the political process when 3 sinks in. Neither bombing the sh1t out of them nor letting them run amok seems like a better idea.
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post #27 of 63
8/17/04 at 4:50pm
One would think this is one of the scenarios we might have considered before going in to a giant war.
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post #28 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:05am
Thread Starter 
The "peace process' is failing. Iraqi forces shold storm the shrine and put an end to this.
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post #29 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The "peace process' is failing. Iraqi forces shold storm the shrine and put an end to this.

Make your damn mind up.

Would the effects of trashing the shrine be worse or better then not trashing it?
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post #30 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Make your damn mind up.

Would the effects of trashing the shrine be worse or better then not trashing it?

Couldn't we just trash it a little bit? Just for the home crowd, without the iraqis noticing?
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post #31 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Make your damn mind up.

Would the effects of trashing the shrine be worse or better then not trashing it?

Doesn't matter.

All Muslims know that the whole subtext is a war against Islam - driven by a few hardcore nutters in the current US admin and sold on a different basis to the sheep but a war against Islam nonetheless.

Of course the US doesn't give a flying *** about the shrines of [b]ANY[/i] non-Xian religion - the only reason the US don't bomb the mosque to bejeezus is because they have ***ed up majorly and they don't want to get deeper into the quagmire.

And because they need to keep their noses glued firmly to the Saudi's a@ses and it wouldn't go down too well with the Bush paymasters at central Wahabi command.
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post #32 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:36am
I vote for moderat trashing!

(At least just to draw attention away from Israels decision to build a 1000 new living units in illegal West Bank settlements.)
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post #33 of 63
8/18/04 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally posted by New
I vote for moderat trashing!

(At least just to draw attention away from Israels decision to build a 1000 new living units in illegal West Bank settlements.)

Can't we have a 'reciprocal trashing agreement' ?

Each combatant gets to trash their own sites of outstanding national beauty (ok, Bush is already doing that but that just makes it a good idea) and world heritage sites - special departments could be set up to carry out the trashing and UN observers and inspectors could oversee the process.

Iraqis could trash the Imam Ali shrine - one of the world architectural masterpieces.

Britain could drop a few bombs on Stonehenge and fire a few mortars at the Tower of London or something.

Italy are in the coalition so the Coliseum could take a few hits from a laser guided Tomahawk or whatever.

The US could ...I dunno....nuke a few McDonalds - has the first one got a preservation order on it ?

See, everyone's a winner and we all go home happy. This could work.....
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post #34 of 63
8/18/04 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Couldn't we just trash it a little bit? Just for the home crowd, without the iraqis noticing?

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post #35 of 63
8/18/04 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
No I don't want the shrine trashed, but I do want an end to this standoff. I don't believe for a moment that Sadr is motivated by his faith . He is motivated by his hunger for power and he uses religion as a tool to get it. People like Sadr are great at playing the "negotiate long enough to save my butt and regroup" game. Much like SH I would say. I tell you , this guy is out for himself and he will be a bigger and bigger pain as time goes on. Don't patronize him.
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post #36 of 63
8/18/04 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 
Come on segovius. This is a war against Islam as much as all Muslims are terrorists and OBL exemplifies Islam. Please.
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post #37 of 63
8/18/04 at 10:44am
Moot point now.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
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post #38 of 63
8/18/04 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
For the moment. He was afraid that the Iraqi forces were going to kick his butt.
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post #39 of 63
8/18/04 at 11:19am
Or perhaps he has a larger more ominous goal, like taking over Texas?
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post #40 of 63
8/18/04 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Or perhaps he has a larger more ominous goal, like taking over Texas?


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