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Our man in Iraq - just like our old-man in Iraq?

post #1 of 58
8/18/04 at 12:18pm
Thread Starter 
Seems that teh Iraqi leader that we elected for the Iraqi people is doing a bang up job: closing down stations and now even BANNING CRITICISM OF HIMSELF IN THE MEDIA

From the article:
Quote:
And to think that one of the much-ballyhooed acts by U.S. proconsul L. Paul Bremer III, the guy who handed over Iraq's "sovereignty" to the prime minister June 28 before sneaking out of Baghdad, was to shut down Saddam Hussein's dreaded information ministry.

Now the Higher Media Commission is moving into the information ministry's old digs where it's expected to retain many of its 5,000 former state censors. The muzzling has begun

Need I comment really?!

And let's not forget that discover by the Oregon National Gaurdsmen when they stumbled upon a torture camp filled with tortured prisoners and were told to "STAND DOWN"!!!! By their 'superiors' when they tried to intervene!!

Here is a nice picture taken from the Sniper lens of a Gaurdsman:

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #2 of 58
8/18/04 at 12:37pm
You can lead a nation to freedom and democracy, but you can't make it drink. As long as they are not a threat to us and they have good trade relationships with us, we can't tell them how to run their country. Do you have a link to those pictures?
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #3 of 58
8/18/04 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You can lead a nation to freedom and democracy, but you can't make it drink. As long as they are not a threat to us and they have good trade relationships with us, we can't tell them how to run their country. Do you have a link to those pictures?


But uh, they were never a threat to us.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #4 of 58
8/19/04 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You can lead a nation to freedom and democracy, but you can't make it drink.

Ah, yes. The shifting rationale strikes again.
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post #5 of 58
8/19/04 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You can lead a nation to freedom and democracy, but you can't make it drink. As long as they are not a threat to us and they have good trade relationships with us, we can't tell them how to run their country. Do you have a link to those pictures?

If a nation was a horse and it was appropriate for other horse's 'owners' to beat the 'owner' of the horse-nation and steal the horse and set up a proxy 'owner' of the horse, then yes you can 'lead' a 'nation' to 'freedom' and 'democracy'.

You are about 100 years too late, boy. Take your yellow journalism speak back to the 1890's...
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post #6 of 58
8/19/04 at 9:26am
Here's a new interesting take on Iraq :

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...raq/index.html
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #7 of 58
8/19/04 at 10:43am
How do you force Freedom and democracy on a people who have no want for these ideals? Iraq will fall back into a quagmire of religeous extremist who will want a theocracy to force all into its thousand year way of islamic life and thinking. i predict that with open elections will come less and less freedom and eventually a theocracy will take hold. Islam doesnt teach turn the other cheek,love thy neighbor as yourself it teaches our way or jihad! Thats why these bastards have been killing each other since the time of Moses. Their fanatic religeon doesnt allow for liberal ideas such as democracy and freedom for all.
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post #8 of 58
8/19/04 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Here's a new interesting take on Iraq :

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...raq/index.html

This actually deserves a new thread, as well as some real attention besides a web page on the news.

From the article:
Quote:
"Left unresolved for now is whether intelligence was intentionally misconstrued to justify military action," Bereuter said

Quote:
Bereuter's critique of the administration on Iraq was sharp.

He said the administration was wrong to disband the Iraqi army -- because so many of its members joined forces with the insurgents -- and was wrong to rely on the Defense Department instead of the State Department to spearhead reconstruction and the interim government.

He also said the administration was wrong to ignore military leaders who warned many more troops would be needed in Iraq to maintain the postwar peace.

"Now we are immersed in a dangerous, costly mess and there is no easy and quick way to end our responsibilities in Iraq without creating bigger future problems in the region and, in general, in the Muslim world," Bereuter said.

Bereuter said it was important for the executive and legislative branches of government to learn from the "errors and failures" relating to the war in Iraq and its aftermath.

Yeah, perhaps Americans in general should "learn from the 'errors and failings" of this administration by voting him the hell out of office!!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #9 of 58
8/19/04 at 12:39pm
The action in Iraq was taken for two reasons:

1. To destroy the military and terroristic potential of Iraq harming Americans or their friends.

2. To secure the oil supply and put it in the hands of folks with whom me can do business.

As a side effect, the Iraqi people got rid of SH and now have an opportunity to create a better life for themselves. That is up to them.

Come Nov the American people will not care about this. As we celebrate the Bush victory we will here the murmur of the left rambling about "Bush misleading the people",but noone will pay them any attention .
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #10 of 58
8/19/04 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The action in Iraq was taken for two reasons:

1. To destroy the military and terroristic potential of Iraq harming Americans or their friends.



Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
2. To secure the oil supply and put it in the hands of folks with whom me can do business.

As a side effect, the Iraqi people got rid of SH and now have an opportunity to create a better life for themselves. That is up to them.

You mean: to invade and take resources from a sovereign nation!
To steal for yourself what you do not have!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #11 of 58
8/19/04 at 12:44pm
The oil rich nations of the World are very wealthy places. Nothing will be stolen, it will be bought. This is what the left does not get. We are not stealing, we are BUYING.
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post #12 of 58
8/19/04 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
The oil rich nations of the World are very wealthy places. Nothing will be stolen, it will be bought. This is what the left does not get. We are not stealing, we are BUYING.

Why did we have to invade to buy it? I don't have to storm into 7/11 guns-a-blazin' to buy a slurpee.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #13 of 58
8/19/04 at 12:51pm
Our ability to do business with SH eroded several years ago. I'm sure none of you leftists drive cars that burn gas of buy plastics or other things that come from oil.
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post #14 of 58
8/19/04 at 1:00pm
So now we got a conservative saying the war was for oil and not democracy. You guys crack me up.
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post #15 of 58
8/19/04 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Our ability to do business with SH eroded several years ago. I'm sure none of you leftists drive cars that burn gas of buy plastics or other things that come from oil.

Wow, this post is amazingly similar in tone and context to one made by NaplesX the other day...


Anywho, you really didn't answer the question of "why did we have to invade?". We didn't. We could have supported an internal uprising. We could have waited SH out like we did with Mohamar Qudafy(sp). We could have made concerted efforts but we didn't. As soon as Rummy thought we had enough troops in Kuwait we stormed in. To heck with the UN inspections which were working as evidenced by the Kay report.

My final thought--sovereignty. If we can invade a country to put "business partners" into power what's stopping other countries from doing the same? All you right-wing nut bags never seem to ask this question and avoid answering it like the plague when posed.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #16 of 58
8/19/04 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So now we got a conservative saying the war was for oil and not democracy. You guys crack me up.

Neocon nuance I guess.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #17 of 58
8/19/04 at 2:18pm
I have always thought the oil was important.
1. US security
2. Secure the oil supply
3. Democracy for Iraq as a biproduct of 1 and 2
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post #18 of 58
8/19/04 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
How do you force Freedom and democracy on a people who have no want for these ideals? Iraq will fall back into a quagmire of religeous extremist who will want a theocracy to force all into its thousand year way of islamic life and thinking. i predict that with open elections will come less and less freedom and eventually a theocracy will take hold. Islam doesnt teach turn the other cheek,love thy neighbor as yourself it teaches our way or jihad! Thats why these bastards have been killing each other since the time of Moses. Their fanatic religeon doesnt allow for liberal ideas such as democracy and freedom for all.

You're calling Arabs 'bastards' and Islam a 'fanatic religion' and in the same breath critising Muslims for not turning the other cheek and loving thy neighbour as thyself. What an excellent, excellent Christian you are.
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post #19 of 58
8/19/04 at 2:57pm
Whatever, they arent taught love thy neighbor from little kids they are taught to hate the jew, hate the american, and hate anyone who doesnt think like they do this is why they are still killing each other over tribal religeous crap while everyone in their society suffers. So Bush thinks we can force democracy on people who cant stomach different ideas and ways of thinking. This is 2004 and these idiots are doing the same thing they were doing in the first century. to busy killing and fighting each other for their stupid religeon to ever develope into a normal society. This is why here in America we have accomplished great things, we put aside difference,even embrace it. they do not. What has the Arabs accomplished? did any of those bastard nations rescue Kuwait? hell no it took Americans to do it. 200 billion down the drain and today we have the highest oil prices ever. way to go George.
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post #20 of 58
8/19/04 at 3:46pm
Why is Common Man quivering in his cow hide boots?

He pissed himself again.
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post #21 of 58
8/19/04 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I have always thought the oil was important.
1. US security
2. Secure the oil supply
3. Democracy for Iraq as a biproduct of 1 and 2

1) The terrorist who attacked us is still roaming free.
2) Prices for oil are at all time high's because Iraq is unable to produce at its peak and terrorism concerns in Saudia Arabia helped drive these prices up. We've thrown 200 Billion into a country for oil.
3) You can't bring democracy it the tip of a bayonet

All and all your three reasons are failures. Once, twice, three strikes your out at the old ball park...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #22 of 58
8/19/04 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
1) The terrorist who attacked us is still roaming free.
2) Prices for oil are at all time high's because Iraq is unable to produce at its peak and terrorism concerns in Saudia Arabia helped drive these prices up. We've thrown 200 Billion into a country for oil.
3) You can't bring democracy it the tip of a bayonet

All and all your three reasons are failures. Once, twice, three strikes your out at the old ball park...

nice post and so true
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post #23 of 58
8/19/04 at 4:33pm
You guys are thinking SO SHORT TERM
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post #24 of 58
8/19/04 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You guys are thinking SO SHORT TERM

And you are blind to the realities.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #25 of 58
8/19/04 at 9:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You guys are thinking SO SHORT TERM

But really, you don't understand that you just very explicitly stated that we invaded another country in order to take what they have

Sure we need that stuff . . . . buut what you just said in good conscience, was similar to the justifications of tyranical thugs throughout history: "That land over there?! WE want it . . . now!"
or
"That World, we want it, we need it for our Country's future"
or even:
"That World, we want it, we need it for our Empire's future"
or even:
"That World, we want it, we need it for our Reich!!"


BTW: You are no Christian & that is for DAMN sure!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #26 of 58
8/19/04 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I have always thought the oil was important.
1. US security
2. Secure the oil supply
3. Democracy for Iraq as a biproduct of 1 and 2

Pathetic!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #27 of 58
8/19/04 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You guys are thinking SO SHORT TERM


And just what exactly would you know about long term?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #28 of 58
8/19/04 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
You guys are thinking SO SHORT TERM

Maybe we just haven't seen THE BIG PICTURE yet.



The latest from RoveCo.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #29 of 58
8/19/04 at 10:09pm
Thread Starter 
Just note the horrible design for that poster . . . . not only is it just plain badly designed it very obviously intendes to line Kerry up with OBL and Hussain . . . the way this non-stop insinuating smear campaign works is amazing!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #30 of 58
8/19/04 at 10:30pm
Actually, I find that poster ironic and can't see how it can possibly help Bush. The irony is that it's clearly been implied around the country that Bush lacks the capacity to see the "big picture". And the line "World's Greatest Cowboy"? Is that supposed to be a compliment?

Cowboy has long been equated with the word "reckless".
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post #31 of 58
8/19/04 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Whatever, they arent taught love thy neighbor from little kids they are taught to hate the jew, hate the american, and hate anyone who doesnt think like they do this is why they are still killing each other over tribal religeous crap while everyone in their society suffers. So Bush thinks we can force democracy on people who cant stomach different ideas and ways of thinking. This is 2004 and these idiots are doing the same thing they were doing in the first century. to busy killing and fighting each other for their stupid religeon to ever develope into a normal society. This is why here in America we have accomplished great things, we put aside difference,even embrace it. they do not. What has the Arabs accomplished? did any of those bastard nations rescue Kuwait? hell no it took Americans to do it. 200 billion down the drain and today we have the highest oil prices ever. way to go George.

OK. And the reason you're counting out Islamic advances in the fields of mathematics, astronomy, architecture, literature and music - things you take for granted they're so important to your daily life - is..?

I'll come back to this this afternoon.

In the meantime, will a mod please check this guy's IP address because I think it's a member doubling himself.
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post #32 of 58
8/20/04 at 1:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
OK. And the reason you're counting out Islamic advances in the fields of mathematics, astronomy, architecture, literature and music - things you take for granted they're so important to your daily life - is..?

Not to be a pest Hassan, but I feel obligated to point out most of the terrific Arab contributions in the fields named above reached that level prior to the embrace of Islam in Arabia.

Since then, it's been a long, steady slide downhill.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #33 of 58
8/20/04 at 2:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Not to be a pest Hassan, but I feel obligated to point out most of the terrific Arab contributions in the fields named above reached that level prior to the embrace of Islam in Arabia.

Since then, it's been a long, steady slide downhill.

Ah. You're quite right: I mean to say 'Arabic' rather than 'Islamic', which makes me look quite a twat. (I was in a hurry to go swimming.)
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post #34 of 58
8/20/04 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Not to be a pest Hassan, but I feel obligated to point out most of the terrific Arab contributions in the fields named above reached that level prior to the embrace of Islam in Arabia.

Since then, it's been a long, steady slide downhill.

That's at best a half thruth. Or even, flat out wrong.

It's pretty fortunate that muslim scholars studied, collected and copied old european philosophy and science while europe was busy burning it.
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post #35 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Not to be a pest Hassan, but I feel obligated to point out most of the terrific Arab contributions in the fields named above reached that level prior to the embrace of Islam in Arabia.

Since then, it's been a long, steady slide downhill.

This is so true, look at everyone of those fanatic countries....our biggest nightmare would be letting these fanatics get the bomb because under their sick beliefs they would use it. Islam has screwed those guys up pretty well. I dont think you can force democracy,they have to want it but their religeous dogma doesnt allow for other viewpoints, where true christianity accepts all and teaches tolerance Islam does not and so these guys are still killing everyone who thinks different hence the constant wars in the mid east. its hard to move forward when you spend all your time and resources killing each other. This is what makes America great. By getting along we have been able to accomplish things no other nation on this planet has.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #36 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
This is so true, look at everyone of those fanatic countries....our biggest nightmare would be letting these fanatics get the bomb because under their sick beliefs they would use it. Islam has screwed those guys up pretty well. I dont think you can force democracy,they have to want it but their religeous dogma doesnt allow for other viewpoints, where true christianity accepts all and teaches tolerance Islam does not and so these guys are still killing everyone who thinks different hence the constant wars in the mid east. its hard to move forward when you spend all your time and resources killing each other. This is what makes America great. By getting along we have been able to accomplish things no other nation on this planet has.

The first thing the christians did when they took over muslim Cordoba was to punish the jews and muslims living there by death if they did not convert to christianty.

Islam has a better historcal record of tolerance towards other religions than christianty has. Sorry.
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post #37 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:15am
I assumed that poster was a joke.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #38 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:18am
My meaning is today, true christianity teaches tolerance,love god and then each other as yourself. Jesus was a genius. Islam does not teach this philosophy in fact the opposite. kill the infidel,jihad and yadda yadda yadda. Im not a practicing christian by the way but just making a observation. Men have used religeon for countless wars and its sad.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #39 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I assumed that poster was a joke.

you're a joke.
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post #40 of 58
8/20/04 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
My meaning is today, true christianity teaches tolerance,love god and then each other as yourself. Jesus was a genius. Islam does not teach this philosophy in fact the opposite. kill the infidel,jihad and yadda yadda yadda. Im not a practicing christian by the way but just making a observation. Men have used religeon for countless wars and its sad.

That's the clue, the use of relgion. You don't seem to know much about islam. And you seem far to naive towards "christians"...
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