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War on facts

post #1 of 12
8/20/04 at 9:20am
Thread Starter 
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._us/iraq_polls

54% of Americans reckon there were WMDs in the run up to the war, and 50% still believe that Iraq had close links with al Qaeda or has been involved with terrorist attacks on the US.

It's not quite as dire as it was a year ago...but how many morons does it take to keep supporting the Bush administration and corporate media's war on reality? Every time Fox does a feature on Iraq, there is a huge banner at the bottom of the screen "War on terror".

How much US public support would there have been for the war if Americans had a better grasp of the facts beforehand, as the rest of the world did? My guess, about the same as the rest of the world, say 10% to 20%.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #2 of 12
8/20/04 at 1:17pm
It's an unfortunate combination of international ignorance and this administration's War on Truth.
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post #3 of 12
8/20/04 at 1:51pm
What's going to cause real long term harm to our republic, though, is the administrations "war on the possibility of truth".

Since their ideology is better served by emotional reactions (preferably anger and belligerence), they have set out to systematically undermine one of the foundations of western liberal culture: dispassionate investigation via logical process leading to provability.

The more the culture is in the grips of "there are no objective facts, only who is shouting loudest or has the most clout", the better for Bushes.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #4 of 12
8/20/04 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
...

The more the culture is in the grips of "there are no objective facts, only who is shouting loudest or has the most clout", the better for Bushes.

You mean like this?
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post #5 of 12
8/20/04 at 2:57pm
After 911 most Americans did not want a regime like that of SH operating in secrecy. We had to know what he was up to. Period. He would not come clean to the inspectors. Weapons were unaccounted for. His soil was fertile to those who want to kill Americans. For these reasons, most Americans feel the war was the right thing and this is why GWB will win in November.

Moe
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #6 of 12
8/20/04 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
You mean like this?

Actually, exactly like that. Start with a few clips of democratic politicians speaking forcefully about their opposition to the presidents policies (oh my god!), add a bit of Michael Moore saying "the president led us to war under false pretenses" (call the medics!) and garnish with bits of an ad submitted to competition but never used.

And what do you get? Why, it's "the coalition of the wild eyed"! See? The democratic party is insane!

Thanks for the excellent example to make my point, Scott.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #7 of 12
8/20/04 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
After 911 most Americans did not want a regime like that of SH operating in secrecy. We had to know what he was up to. Period. He would not come clean to the inspectors. Weapons were unaccounted for. His soil was fertile to those who want to kill Americans. For these reasons, most Americans feel the war was the right thing and this is why GWB will win in November.

Moe

Say hi to Curly and Larry for me.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #8 of 12
8/20/04 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
After 911 most Americans did not want a regime like that of SH operating in secrecy. We had to know what he was up to. Period. He would not come clean to the inspectors. Weapons were unaccounted for. His soil was fertile to those who want to kill Americans. For these reasons, most Americans feel the war was the right thing and this is why GWB will win in November.

Moe

Well . . . 'knowing what he was up to' is a pathetic reason to invade another country . . . almost as bad as your other very unChristian notion that it is ok to invade for the purpose of stealing . . .
Hey, my mac is getting old, I'm gonna invade that guys house and take his . . . or force him, through my better weapons, to sell it to me (and nobody else)dirt cheap

besides, inspections were working fine and 'his soil' was probably the least likely soil in the mideast to foment actual working groups of anti-US terrorists.

But anyway, why does it seem, in this post of yours, that at this point you are just trying to convince yourself?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #9 of 12
8/20/04 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Actually, exactly like that. Start with a few clips of democratic politicians speaking forcefully about their opposition to the presidents policies (oh my god!), add a bit of Michael Moore saying "the president led us to war under false pretenses" (call the medics!) and garnish with bits of an ad submitted to competition but never used.

And what do you get? Why, it's "the coalition of the wild eyed"! See? The democratic party is insane!

Thanks for the excellent example to make my point, Scott.

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #10 of 12
8/20/04 at 5:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
After 911 most Americans did not want a regime like that of SH operating in secrecy. We had to know what he was up to. Period.

Cue the weapons inspectors.

Quote:
He would not come clean to the inspectors.

Since when? Up until mid March 1993 when the inspectors were withdrawn, they had a free reign in Iraq and went wherever they pleased, without restriction. The inspectors went every which where...and so have the military...and nothing, as the anti-war community predicted, was found. The correct intelligence, which the CIA actually had, was public domain.

Quote:
Weapons were unaccounted for.

No, most of the WMDs were destroyed in 1991 in the months after the Gulf War. This is household knowledge thoughout the world, except, sadly, here in the USA. The inspectors took care of the remainder during a seven year period after the Gulf War. Hence the lack of WMDs today.

Quote:
His soil was fertile to those who want to kill Americans.

Well if that was the case, they were extraordinarily inactive. You will have much difficulty naming any Iraqi who has perpetrated terrorist attacks against Americans up until the war started. However since the war started, there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of Iraqis who would gladly fight Americans, both conventionally and uinconventionally....as well as an unknown number of foreign mercenaries who have taken up the call to arms. The unwarranted and illegal attack on their nation by Bush was nothing more than a prolonged act of international terrorism with a massive budget.

Quote:
For these reasons, most Americans feel the war was the right thing and this is why GWB will win in November.

Most Americans are too busy or stressed to extract some commonsense from the blazingly misleading and inaccurate headlines and opinion-engineering, courtesy of our pathetic, weasel-like, government-biased media networks. Regarding the truth, its such a shame that Americans are the last to get it while the rest of the world looks at us shaking their heads in amazement. Time is on our side however, and an (increasing) majority of Americans (some 52%) now feel that the war in Iraq was a mistake.

The only way that Bush will "win" in November is if the election is rigged again. And Jeb Bush is more than capable of that in Florida again...he is actively boycotting a voter-verifiable papertrail on those flaky Diebold etc DRE hacker-magnets.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #11 of 12
8/20/04 at 10:15pm
Perhaps Bush would like to release to the Public the 10,000 page document that Saddam gave the whole world that detailed his destruction of WMD. The same document that was trashed within 24 hours of it being given.

15th Century Martin Luther is quoted as saying

'What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church [...]a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.'
--Martin Luther

That is Bush's philosophy
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post #12 of 12
8/21/04 at 12:52am
Don't evern get me started on Martin Luther...
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