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What's Bush's policy for the next four years? - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Way to miss the point. Clinton was notorious for putting politics before policy, which was the anti-Bush charge I was responding to. He even did it with national security, selling out US policy in the name of business interests with China and Russia. Clinton's pro-China and pro-Russia policies forced his administration to ignore China's nuclear proliferation, and North Korea's balatant duplicity. Clinton's poltics before policy caused him to bomb Iraq unilaterally, and then drop the ball on going in to get bin laden. Somehow I don't want to hear about this administration's "politics before policy."

Way to intentionally muddy the water of the argument. What, in Harald's immortal phrase, the flying monkey bollocks does Bill Clinton have to do with the subject of this thread? Why did you bring him up?
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
A balanced budget does not equal a good economy.

How short-termist.

The only way you can have a massive balance of trade deficit and budget deficit at the same time is because people believe your economy will one day be able to pay it all back.

The US is the only country in the world that has a twin problem like the above. There have been others and we have a name for them: 'failed states.' The US can do it because ... because ... oil is a financial instrument. Unexploited oil is unexploited dollars. The US economy is growing, but the deficit is growing faster.

So what happens when the oil runs out and you've not paid it all back? Or are you looking at some other miracle of productivity, totally counter the recent figures, that means the US is able to magically pay its debts off?

What happens if everyone asks for their money back? Now? Please?
meh
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meh
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post #43 of 65
Thread Starter 
Day three and still no substance from the Bush camp... While Bush supporters sling mud instead of sound policies I wait here for an incling, a clue, a whisper of policy even. This thread along with the dirty politic threads really show the Bush camp's true colors (not Red White and Blue BTW more like Black as the ace of spades).
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Day three and still no substance from the Bush camp... While Bush supporters sling mud instead of sound policies I wait here for an incling, a clue, a whisper of policy even. This thread along with the dirty politic threads really show the Bush camp's true colors (not Red White and Blue BTW more like Black as the ace of spades).

I'm enjoying making your wait faust9. I really like how you are avoiding the whole "bathing" thing while waiting as well.

If you have an iSight that can broadcast smell, I might have to relent.


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #45 of 65
Okay, so after the RNC, can I please invite Trumptman to do the following as a joint exercise with me:

1. Look at the three most important speeches from the RNC and compare them issue-for-issue, tactic-for-tactic with the three top speeches from the DNC. We'll tally the number of negative attacks, the number of questionable truths, and the number of mistakes, as well as the number of solid points, the number of policy points and the number of admirable promises made by each.

2. When Bush administration releases their "plan" we'll compare that with the Kerry plan, and compare issue for issue whether it's socially tolerant, economically responsible, based on welfare policy or Reaganomics, whether it will narrow or widen the wealth gap, whether it promotes or harms international diplomacy, whether it deters terrorism through cooperation or through show of force, whether it restricts our personal freedoms, whether it restricts the personal freedoms of non-Americans, etc.

Shall we?

We'll have our own little AO debate.
post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Okay, so after the RNC, can I please invite Trumptman to do the following as a joint exercise with me:

1. Look at the three most important speeches from the RNC and compare them issue-for-issue, tactic-for-tactic with the three top speeches from the DNC. We'll tally the number of negative attacks, the number of questionable truths, and the number of mistakes, as well as the number of solid points, the number of policy points and the number of admirable promises made by each.

2. When Bush administration releases their "plan" we'll compare that with the Kerry plan, and compare issue for issue whether it's socially tolerant, economically responsible, based on welfare policy or Reaganomics, whether it will narrow or widen the wealth gap, whether it promotes or harms international diplomacy, whether it deters terrorism through cooperation or through show of force, whether it restricts our personal freedoms, whether it restricts the personal freedoms of non-Americans, etc.

Shall we?

We'll have our own little AO debate.

Sure, how do we decide who the top three are?

But we'll have to work on and possibly add some to that criteria. However I love discussing issues.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #47 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I'm enjoying making your wait faust9. I really like how you are avoiding the whole "bathing" thing while waiting as well.

If you have an iSight that can broadcast smell, I might have to relent.


Nick

Whatever this means

Day 4: The only panel investigating the pentagon in the Abu Ghraib scandle concluded that the Pentagon played a substantial role in the abuses by not exercising sufficient oversight. Bush still has no plan for the future.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Minimum number of misleading statements on Iraq made by the Bush Administration's top officials since March 2002 : 237

from here

how can people vote for these guys?
post #49 of 65
FOUR MORE WARS! FOUR MORE WARS!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #50 of 65
Harper's is an awesome magazine . .


But what is up with this statistic!?! and why isn't there more uproar about this?!:
Quote:
Number of blank votes recorded by touchscreen machines in a January election for Florida's House of Representatives : 137


Votes by which the race was won : 12

What does this portend for the presidential election?
and without a paper trail . . . . . we're fuucked!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
How short-termist.

The only way you can have a massive balance of trade deficit and budget deficit at the same time is because people believe your economy will one day be able to pay it all back.

The US is the only country in the world that has a twin problem like the above. There have been others and we have a name for them: 'failed states.' The US can do it because ... because ... oil is a financial instrument. Unexploited oil is unexploited dollars. The US economy is growing, but the deficit is growing faster.

So what happens when the oil runs out and you've not paid it all back? Or are you looking at some other miracle of productivity, totally counter the recent figures, that means the US is able to magically pay its debts off?

What happens if everyone asks for their money back? Now? Please?

It's not like I said a deficit was good and balanced budget was bad. I just said that "the economy" and having abalanced budget are not the same.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #52 of 65
You can bet on the following:

Medicare: he will work more for privatizing, which means the bottom line will be more in the court of the Insurance companies/pharmaceuticals/AMA than it already is . . . meaning, that there will be more obsfucation and more difficulty getting decent care and decent prices for drugs

Social Security: can you say 'ownership society'? which means that now the elderly can watch their hard earned cash go down the drain in a flash.

Foriegn Policy: what do you really expect? the WOT, which should have been an intelligent war against a relatively small group of terrorists hiding in various countries, has now become a foriegn policy disaster and ramped up the WOT in scale far beyond what it would have been, as well as, derailed its most effective tool: the ability to work in conjunction with foriegn governmenets and intelligence agencies while also spreading the word that America is not the sort of place worth 'hating' . . .
Bet on more of the same: they believe in the notion of 'take what we need . . . our power makes it OK to take your things"

Taxes: bet on more of the same . . . the ultra rich will continue to get cuts and the rest will get the pinch . . . and because there is an enormous deficit made up of huge payments into the toilet of Iraq and the companies lining the rim like scum, there will be backdoor taxation that still seems to slip by the notice of anti-government Conservatives . . . and those taxes will, of course, penalize the working middle and lower end.

Security: Mybe they'll hire a 4th Federal Marshal to gaurd the coasts of Oregon?! . . . and the Mexican border . . . Maybe some see-through shipping containers?
But most likely they'll just gather your dental records, your web-surfing records, your library records, your phone records, your medical records, necct they'll be tapping every delivery driver that ever entered your house (remember the TIPS campaign?) and hitting up plumbers and service-repair workers . . .
They'll put into place a whole new set of laws centered around the phrase "enemy of the people", and open a new Department: New Knowledge Varification Deparment, (NKVD) or the Knowledge is Good Bureau (KGB) and the once wary anti-Government Conservatives will say: 'it is good to feel safe'

Religion: the false notion that any of the NeoCons care about 'God' will be perpetuated and it will slip into politics through the widening orifice of Bush's backdoor . . . the 'Faith based incentives' which should be seen as unConstitutional, will be given more credence, they will get more funding, they will not be taxed and they will move to encompass faith based partisan politics . . . the 'Brotherhood" will be given tax exemption and they will be even funded in order to be given a mercenary arm in 'God's New Army' and will be paid to do 'security' and 'misionary work' overseas . . . against the 'Bad-Guys'
Buddhism will automatically qualify you for exclusion from flying,
Muslimism will qualify you for frequent visits to the New Knowledge Varification Departmant special "Cells of Truth", where you will get to meet the mascot.

Just some thoughts
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #53 of 65
Like I've said before a second term for George Bush would see more strife economically, militarily, and we would see a futher erosion of our personal freedoms.

Given the fact that he doesn't have to seek reelection he won't be very restrained about it either.

I know the Bush supporters will say " How can you know that for sure? ".

Well you really don't have to be a rocket scientist to fiqure that one out. In other words count on it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #54 of 65
Thread Starter 
10 days later, and still no policy going forward from Bush. Same ol' same ol' I guess. More war. More fear. More patriot act. More crap. The big difference being Bush will not have to worry about reelection.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
10 days later, and still no policy going forward from Bush. Same ol' same ol' I guess. More war. More fear. More patriot act. More crap. The big difference being Bush will not have to worry about reelection.

They want to force their homosexual agenda on you. They want to make America subject to the United Nations and France. They want to take away your guns. They want to take God out of the schools even more than they already have.

Wedge. Wedge. Wedge.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #56 of 65
Thread Starter 
Day 11 of this thread and still no positive policy has been presented going forward.

The first day of the RNC and all we got was a rehash of the last four years not a plan for the next for years.

I'm still waiting for a policy...
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Day 11 of this thread and still no positive policy has been presented going forward.

The first day of the RNC and all we got was a rehash of the last four years not a plan for the next for years.

I'm still waiting for a policy...

Dude. It's a policy of fear, divisiveness, and compassion.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Dude. It's a policy of fear, divisiveness, and compassion.

It's a fun new game!

The administration plays good cop/bad cop, but you have to figure out which one it is.

(No peeking! Oh shit, you peeked, now we have to kill you...)
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Like I've said before a second term for George Bush would see more strife economically, militarily, and we would see a futher erosion of our personal freedoms.

Given the fact that he doesn't have to seek reelection he won't be very restrained about it either.

I know the Bush supporters will say " How can you know that for sure? ".

Well you really don't have to be a rocket scientist to fiqure that one out. In other words count on it.

This is what bothers me and i voted for the guy but something else to ponder is without this congress a lot of what he did wouldnt have happened. Who runs congress at the moment? Thats right. The Republicans have gone far,far right.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
Reply
post #60 of 65
Thread Starter 
Finally, a hint of policy for the next four years. Defend marriage!!! The rest was the same song and dance about the last four years.

We heard the compassionate conservative shit again.

We heard a good speech from Arnold.

Still nothing substantial about the future though.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #61 of 65
Thread Starter 
Tonight we heard from Dick. Did he tell us how we're to move forward? Not really. He told us about the last 4 years. He attacked Kerry, which is not too uncommon because they have no policy just they can only attack.

They still have no policy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #62 of 65
Thread Starter 
Yep, more of the same!!! 9/11, Tax Cuts, and the like. The funny thing is Bush's tax cuts means he can't propose new programs because of the current state of the deficit. He can spout on and on about the last four years but he hasn't given us a new plan for the next.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/po...agewanted=1&hp

Quote:
In an unusual counter attack on the night of an incumbent's acceptance speech, Mr. Kerry, under increasing pressure from Democrats to fight back, scheduled a late-night rally in Springfield, Ohio, in which he delivered his toughest attack on Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. "We all saw the anger and distortion of the Republican Convention," Mr. Kerry said, according to prepared remarks. "For the past week, they attacked my patriotism and my fitness to serve as commander in chief. Well, here's my answer. I'm not going to have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and by those who have misled the nation into Iraq."

Kerry's on the offensive now.

I havn't read the Plan For A Safer America yet we'll see what's in it.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #63 of 65
The funny thing about Me and Bush's speech is this:

I hadn't spent anytime with my wife today . . . . I watched some of the biggining of the speech, which was luke-ish at best.
My wife came home and we sppent time together and caught up . .. with the TV off beccause the voice drives my wife absolutely insane and makes her anxious - so we talked and chatted a little and she went up to bed -
I turn on the last 25+ minutes of the speech and all I heard was more stuff about America, staying the course etc, one good joke about walking and Texans, and more heroic 'emotional' appeal stuff . . .
I turned the TV off for a few minutes and completely missed the 'content'!!

I heard in retrospect that he said some stuff about Community Colleges, and hybrid cars (didn't he stress alternative fuels during his last Convention speech?!?!)

I guess I blinked too fast . . .

rumor has it that none of it will really even be tried out though . . . except teh aggression and go-get-em stuff . . we know that happens
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #64 of 65
Thread Starter 
Here it is if you'd like to read it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3623344.stm

His 2000 speech http://www.usatoday.com/news/conv/118.htm

Bush floated the CC idea in his 2004 State of the Union address. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040120-7.html
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #65 of 65
Quote:
What happens if everyone asks for their money back? Now? Please?

Honest answer wrapped inside a joke.

Any Steven Wright fans here?

--
"Mr. Wright, this is your student loan officer. We have talked to your college and found out that you never attended classes, we'd really like to know what you did with all the money."

"Well, I'll be honest with you, I gave it all to my friend Jiggs Casey, and he used it to build a nuclear weapon... I would really appreciate it if you didn't call me anymore."
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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