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How did the war in Iraq help us?

post #1 of 33
8/20/04 at 10:18am
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...raq/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...nce/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...nce/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ror/index.html

http://nytimes.com/2004/08/20/busine...ND-OIL.html?hp
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




Reply
post #2 of 33
8/31/04 at 3:05pm
Thread Starter 
I knwo a lot of Pro-War drum beaters will never experience anything like this. To do so would mean they had volunteered for military service or had sons/daughters who did. Most pro-war people I've come across are not in that situation for some reason--I guess your idea of war changes when it's your family in harms way and not some other faceless nameless family.

Quote:
"I shouldn't be burying him, he should be burying me," he said in a sometimes tearful interview. "The war is not worth it now. We need to get the hell out of there."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/3...eut/index.html

I ask again, what has this war done to help us?
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #3 of 33
8/31/04 at 4:20pm
1. The world is a safer place with SH out of power.
2. We are safer with SH out of power.
3. The Iraqi people are better off with SH out of power.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #4 of 33
8/31/04 at 4:21pm
The war in Iraq has Made America Safer.

So safe that the colour-coded alerts are a thing of the past, Ted Kennedy can get on aeroplane with no stress, travellers no longer need to give their fingerprints at immigration control and the Patriot Act can be repealed.

Congratulations proud American citizens.
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post #5 of 33
8/31/04 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
1. The world is a safer place with SH out of power.
2. We are safer with SH out of power.
3. The Iraqi people are better off with SH out of power.

Simply saying things like this doe not make them true. Read the links in my first post. If we are safer, as you proclaim, then it just a simple matter of you supplying links to prove your point. I supplied a link to back my point of view why didn't you?

good day.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #6 of 33
8/31/04 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by faust9
Simply saying things like this doe not make them true. Read the links in my first post. If we are safer, as you proclaim, then it just a simple matter of you supplying links to prove your point. I supplied a link to back my point of view why didn't you?

good day.

actually you are wrong, how many times did we here Dubya say weapons of mass destruction? it had to be thousands and after all his spin we were sure they had them when in fact George had no evidence they were there but the fact that his dad gave them to Iraq many years before.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #7 of 33
8/31/04 at 5:12pm
Again, you are such short term thinkers. I hav no doubt that in the long run we are safer. The regime of SH would have done nothing but get more menacing to the civilized world.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #8 of 33
8/31/04 at 6:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Again, you are such short term thinkers. I hav no doubt that in the long run we are safer. The regime of SH would have done nothing but get more menacing to the civilized world.

Yet again, nothing but rhetoric. I gave links you retort with nothing.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #9 of 33
9/1/04 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Again, you are such short term thinkers. I hav no doubt that in the long run we are safer. The regime of SH would have done nothing but get more menacing to the civilized world.

OK then, bucko, FUCKING EXPLAIN HOW.

Explain how, when since you 'won' the war and discovered that Saddam was incapable of threatening his own immediate neighbours and a frigging INVADING ARMY, how could he conceivably be a threat to anyone other than his own people?

I want links and I want reputable sources. I want a good explanation. Defend your post seriously or don't post again.

I'm waiting, so get Googling.
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post #10 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:03pm
I can't link to the future. You short term thinkers need to be patient. Of course terror is up this last few years. We are killing terrorists and they are fighting back. We will prevail in the long run.
"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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"A more sensitive and caring Common man for 2005"
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post #11 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I can't link to the future. You short term thinkers need to be patient. Of course terror is up this last few years. We are killing terrorists and they are fighting back. We will prevail in the long run.

Well Naples, this though is being undercut by the liar in cheif (GWB). http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ationworld-hed

PS who are these terrorists? Why are they terrorists? How many terrorist groups exist? How long has terrorism been around? When was the term first coined?

You have not argument other than blind faith.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #12 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:42pm
One thing is a fact.

SH gave money to terror bomber families for their killings in Israel.

This alone is reason enough to take SH out.

Fellows
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #13 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
One thing is a fact.

SH gave money to terror bomber families for their killings in Israel.

This alone is reason enough to take SH out.

Fellows

Reading the title of the thread again I'm confused how your response ties in.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #14 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:56pm
it helped us by....increasing the value of the stocks
for energy companies

..now if only i'd thought of buying some ...
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post #15 of 33
9/1/04 at 1:59pm
It should be readily apparent that Iraq is one piece in a very large puzzle---part of a solution designed to deal with emerging threats in the ME---dealing with increasing instability in the region---everything from the house of Saud's rock solid hold on power to convincing to Iran to make nukes.


oh wait....I think that came out wrong.....

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #16 of 33
9/1/04 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
1. The world is a safer place with SH out of power.
2. We are safer with SH out of power.
3. The Iraqi people are better off with SH out of power.


1. How So?

2. How so?

3. How so?



Also what about all the other countries just like this?

Should we attack all of them also?


By the the way where's those WOMD?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #17 of 33
9/1/04 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
Again, you are such short term thinkers. I hav no doubt that in the long run we are safer. The regime of SH would have done nothing but get more menacing to the civilized world.


Once again what would you know about long term?


How was he menacing? With those nonexisitant WOMD?

With a deployment system that could only reach near by countries?

Less rhetoric and more facts please!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #18 of 33
9/1/04 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I can't link to the future. You short term thinkers need to be patient. Of course terror is up this last few years. We are killing terrorists and they are fighting back. We will prevail in the long run.


If this were true terrorism would be going down because of the hundreds of billions we have spent in Iraq. However a recent government report shows it's gone up since then.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #19 of 33
9/1/04 at 3:36pm
Jimmac and fuast9:


Your questions are akin to living in 1848 and asking "what's the big deal with Mexico?"


The ME is not getting any friendlier. HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOOO??

It was time for a policy change---don't worry, some clever historian will attached a clever "doctrine" title to it.

Don't let your hatred blind you to history.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #20 of 33
9/1/04 at 3:46pm
Has anyone ever noted that Iraq spelled backwards and then pronounced phonetically comes out almost like the word Kerry. Odd.
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post #21 of 33
9/1/04 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Jimmac and fuast9:


Your questions are akin to living in 1848 and asking "what's the big deal with Mexico?"


The ME is not getting any friendlier. HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOOO??

It was time for a policy change---don't worry, some clever historian will attached a clever "doctrine" title to it.

Don't let your hatred blind you to history.

He's kidding right?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #22 of 33
9/1/04 at 7:22pm
/***Begin unnecessarily cuastic response*****/


ohhhhhhhhhh...........wait a minute!


what if we FUNDED and ARMED MANY governments that undermined the nation of Israel? That would put things right with the World of Islam........



.........oh, that's right, the Russians tried that.



hmmmm....how many unstable/beligerent pseudoIslamic entities do we REALLY need in the ME?


a) more
b) less
c) dude, where's my foriegn policy?




/***End unnecessarily cuastic response*****/

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #23 of 33
9/2/04 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Common Man
I can't link to the future. You short term thinkers need to be patient. Of course terror is up this last few years. We are killing terrorists and they are fighting back. We will prevail in the long run.

No. What I asked you was to explain how Saddam was a threat to the United States of America. You said he was a threat; I disagreed. Now it's traditional for you to provide some evidence to back up your contention; that's why people come to post on an internet forum.

If you can't do this, it's traditionally called 'losing the argument', 'being found out', 'looking like an arse and bollocks in public', or similar.

It should be simple. If a nation is to go to war it'll only go on the best of evidence. I'd like you to show me some of this evidence that was good enough to send 1,000 of your fellow citizens abroad to die.

So off you go, jump to it.

Chop chop.
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post #24 of 33
9/2/04 at 1:59am
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
He's kidding right?

I hope so. I hope he realizes that was the most nakedly aggressive war our nation ever fought, present one included. And it lead us directly down the path to the Civil War. "Mexico will poison us," said a prescient Ralph Waldo Emerson. Maybe not such a bad analogy, actually, though surely not in the way he intended.
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post #25 of 33
9/2/04 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by Towel
....And it lead us directly down the path to the Civil War....


I wholeheartedly disagree, the American Civil War was forced much more by such groups as the Secrect Six (with Emerson as a Satellite thinker of that group.)


The point I'm trying to make is that a policy, e.g. the Polk Doctrine, is easy to pick apart, if you take things existentially on a case by case basis.

This business with trying to make Iraq work as a democracy make perfect sense and drives a "stable" wedge in the ME. But it has to work. I don't fault Bushco for trying, it may be like communism, a good idea that didn't work.


Edit: Also lets not forget South Carolina in the whole scheme of things---it's concivable that the whole War could have been avoided.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #26 of 33
9/2/04 at 11:38am
i dont particularly like either party
however i still think the iraq war is a major mistake

we attacked another nation on the basis of a false
claim & then asserted the premptive right to do so

interestingly i have bought up this point a few times
& republican supporters invariably say "well he was
a bad guy & had to go (saddam)"

what we fail to see if by the same token china
could claim we (the u.s )have a super wmd & intended to attack china & the chinese were well within their
rights to a preemptive strike

we've just opened up a huge can of worms
beacuse now every country can use the same preemptive
excuse to attack another nation

might does not make right.
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post #27 of 33
9/7/04 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
I ask again, what good has come of this war?

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040907_992.html
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #28 of 33
9/7/04 at 10:38pm
yesterday more than one thousand of US soldier died in Iraq since the beginning of the war.
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post #29 of 33
9/8/04 at 1:54am
Thread Starter 
The Pentagon conceeds we are losing the war in Iraq!!! This was an unwinable war to begin with. Many of us said so--conservatives, and liberals alike voiced doubt. This war is going nowhere fast.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #30 of 33
9/8/04 at 2:19am
The sad part, is that this war has open a second battlefront for terrorists.
Let's see there is 1000 US soldiers who will be still alive without this war.

There is many foreign people who have been kidnapped and killed by terrorists. And there is much more terrorists in Iraq now, than they where in the time of Saddam. Now Al Quaeda, and others terrorists groups have a nice place to recruit fellows.

Saddam was an evil guy for sure, but was not a threat for US : no WOMD, no big ties with Al Quaeda. If the goal of the Iraq war was to free Iraq people : wy not (but the answer of this question belong to Iraqi people only), but if it was a war against terrorism, then I think it's one of the biggest mistake of the decade.
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post #31 of 33
9/8/04 at 3:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
He[Rumsfeld] also acknowledged concerns that the war on terrorism is too dependent on military resources to track down terrorists, and that not enough emphasis is being placed on using diplomatic, economic, political, and other means to spread democracy and win over the populations from which most terrorists come.

source

Go figure!!!
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...




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post #32 of 33
9/8/04 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
yesterday more than one thousand of US soldier died in Iraq since the beginning of the war.

Not trying to belittle their sacrifice, but you people do realize that would have been a bad WEEK in Vietnam....1,000 people dying in a war that may not have been necessary is tragic, but 500 people a WEEK are killed by drunk drivers, which is more of a waste? (and before anyone starts flaming me and asking what I've sacrificed, I just 'celebrated' my 15th year of active duty in the US Navy.. )

And if all those terrorist weren't over there in 'Rummyworld', where do you think they would be???
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #33 of 33
9/8/04 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster

And if all those terrorist weren't over there in 'Rummyworld', where do you think they would be???

Probably under Saddam's thumb . . and thinking about nothing but how to kill their neighboring sectarians.

Or many of them would still be moderates without extra strong anti-US feelings.

Many of them (if you mean members of Al Queda . . . the enemy) would have been captured in the hills of Tora Bora . . oh yeah, that is, IF we had actually used American troops there in the first parts of the war ...

and by the way, RE: Al Queda . . . where are they anyway?
OBL?
Let's hope they really are 'over there' and not here.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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