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What will be the new specs for the next PM line?

post #1 of 282
Thread Starter 
What do you all think will be the new specs for the next PM line? I soooo want to get a new PM, my 300mhz G3 is almost as ancient as the Rolling Stones...When is the next "unveiling" of new hardware suppose to be after Aug? Is it in Jan?
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post #2 of 282
High end between 2.7 and 3.0 Ghz G5 (Note: this is only a 10% to 20% speed increase)
PCI Express
Intro: Jan-March 2005
Overall a nice, but not an overwhelming upgrade. If you're looking to buy a PowerMac I'd buy one now.
post #3 of 282
My guess would be just a small step, like 2.0DP Base 2.5DP Mid 3.0DP High
post #4 of 282
I say IBM would fix all he supple problems and the specs be all dual core. The low end is a dp 2.5 Ghz, mid dp 2.7 Ghz, and high dp 3.0 Ghz. With an release dat of January-March release.
post #5 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by quagmire
I say IBM would fix all he supple problems and the specs be all dual core. The low end is a dp 2.5 Ghz, mid dp 2.7 Ghz, and high dp 3.0 Ghz. With an release dat of January-March release.

LOL "Release" and shipping in late Spring (i. e. end of Summer ... 8) )
post #6 of 282
I'd guess it'd be something like this:
All duals;

Low-end
2.0 GHz processors
256MB DDR2 RAM (dual channel 533 MHz)
120 GB harddrive
X600 PCIe graphics card (standard) (128 MB)
Options for nVidia GF FX 6800 Ultra and ATI X800 Pro
Four RAM slots
Two harddrive slots (one free)
$1999


Mid-end
2.5 GHz processors
256MB DDR2 RAM (dual channel 667 MHz)
160 GB harddrive
X600 PCIe graphics card (standard) (128 MB)
Options for nVidia GF FX 6800 Ultra and ATI X800 Pro
Eight RAM slots (6 free)
Two harddrive slots (one free)
$2499

High-end
2.8 GHz processors
512MB DDR2 RAM (dual channel 667 MHz)
250 GB harddrive
X600 PCIe graphics card (standard) (128 MB)
Options for nVidia GF FX 6800 Ultra and ATI X800 Pro
Eight RAM slots (6 free)
Two harddrive slots (one free)
$2999

Announced in January 2005, low and mid-end shipped in February, high-end announced shipping in late February, but pushed back to late March, later for most customers.
post #7 of 282
OMG!! I think it's funny that even some of you think they will still not reach 3GHz on the next update.
Ohh...hohh..hohh... That would be such an embarrassment. (And your probably right they wont reach it but ->) You can bet your @ss IBM realizes that they failed, and everybody thinks this failure is an indication of how they run their operation, and it's a forecast of things to come from them.
IBM shouldn't give Apple anything less than 3GHz if they are half as smart as they want to be perceived by those pondering weather, or not to do business with them.

My spec list for next PM update.
  • Undecided
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post #8 of 282
They change in specs is that they change them from vaporware to shipping.

Nick

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post #9 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Ohh...hohh..hohh... That would be such an embarrassment. (And your probably right they wont reach it but ->) You can bet your @ss IBM realizes that they failed, and everybody thinks this failure is an indication of how they run their operation, and it's a forecast of things to come from them.
IBM shouldn't give Apple anything less than 3GHz if they are half as smart as they want to be perceived by those pondering weather, or not to do business with them.

Of course they shouldn't, but I have very serious doubts they will, in any significant quantity. It's obvious that there are still problems shipping fast G5 processors. IMHO the probably likely to be gone by January 2005, but that's only for the parts that are currently shipped. With a new batch of wares, a new batch of problems come. :-)
post #10 of 282
My hope is that we see the 2.5 dropping to entry level, a 3ghz at mid level and a 3.5ghz (of course all dual) at the top end.

I really doubt we'll see this but you never know.

[EDIT] Of course Apple/IBM may well announce the G6 (dual core G5) as the new top end and surprise everyone [/EDIT]
post #11 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by hypoluxa
What do you all think will be the new specs for the next PM line? I soooo want to get a new PM, my 300mhz G3 is almost as ancient as the Rolling Stones...When is the next "unveiling" of new hardware suppose to be after Aug? Is it in Jan?

Buy now.

I did.

last week I finally ordered a dual 2 G5 to replace my 400 G3... Now I am playing the waiting game (which is nowhere near as fun as Hungry Hungry HIppo's) for it to arrive)

iDunno.
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post #12 of 282
I did the whole "Buy Now" thang when the G5's were announced and bought a single 1.8. Boy do I feel like a lemon now :s
post #13 of 282
What I can tell it's that my Dual 2.0 is enough for the next 2 years ! and I've bought it in august 2003... It's plenty of power !
I'm waiting now for the next BIG bump !
Something like a Dual G6 Dual-Core with HyperTreading (can you say 8 processors? ), PCI-Xpress, HyperTransport 2, DDR2, DualLayer SuperDrive and SATA2...
That will be a nice speed bump Hopefully IBM will be at 4 GHz by then (8x4 GHz... wow!)
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post #14 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by jeromba
What I can tell it's that my Dual 2.0 is enough for the next 2 years ! and I've bought it in august 2003... It's plenty of power !
I'm waiting now for the next BIG bump !
Something like a Dual G6 Dual-Core with HyperTreading (can you say 8 processors? ), PCI-Xpress, HyperTransport 2, DDR2, DualLayer SuperDrive and SATA2...
That will be a nice speed bump Hopefully IBM will be at 4 GHz by then (8x4 GHz... wow!)

And what year do you think this will happen?
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post #15 of 282
I don't think Powermacs hit 3Ghz until 2H 2005. I think the lineup then will be all dual core. I think Apple's low end line will drop back down to $1599. I think the top Powermac will offer a total of 4 cores. I think the whole Powermac line will ship with blazin' fast 56k modems too
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post #16 of 282
Agree with zapchud and hmurchison. Top end won't hit 3GHz until late in 2005. But we will see some internal improvements e.g. PCI Express, Bluetooth standard, user-installable Airport Express, possibly 4 hard drives, possibly 2 optical drives.
post #17 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
And what year do you think this will happen?

Mmmhh something like summer 2006 (you know end of september)

If I look back Apple introduced the G3 in 1997, G4 in 1999 and the G5 in 2003 so it's between 2 and 4 years to have a new processor. So 3 years for the G6 sounds good to me.

PS: oh and for a Dual G5 @ 3 GHz it will be before next summer. At least when Tiger come out.
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post #18 of 282
Would it be too much to ask for another optical drive? Hell, even the ability to put one in, if not the actual drive built in itself...
post #19 of 282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Spytap
Would it be too much to ask for another optical drive? Hell, even the ability to put one in, if not the actual drive built in itself...


Yea Id second that...
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post #20 of 282
Consider that idea officially thirded

I'd also like to see the top end PM shipping with an SLI solution. That would rock!
post #21 of 282
The next PM needs:

-DDR2 support
-PCIe support (drop AGP, 2xPCIe, 2xPCI-X)
-more internal space (4x3.5", 2x 5.25")
-SATA2
-decent graphics card standard (X600 and up)

if they manage to ship that, even if it's not at 3GHz, I'll buy it. Chances are, they won't hit 3GHz and won't upgrade even half of those points above.
Who else smells lemon?
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post #22 of 282
I'll be satisfied if they manage to get three of those five needs in the new PowerMac, and release it on time in January / early February.
post #23 of 282
No wayyyyyy.



Quote:
IBM shouldn't give Apple anything less than 3GHz if they are half as smart as they want to be perceived by those pondering weather, or not to do business with them.

IBM perceived as the new motorola?

heh. Don't think they're going to let that happen. Not afterall that posing on stage with Steve.

It won't look good if IBM are shipping IBM 'OS'/Sony Cell workstations to Sony to blast Apple in their own backyard. How long will Apple let that happen for?

ie IBM will have to keep a pretty compelling G5 going so Apple doesn't flick them faster than Moto'.

I'm surprised Apple didn't get in bed with the 'cell' project and offer their OS to be part of the deal. Sony and Apple teaming up in the workstation market. Could be a good deal for both. Apple get cell. Sony get 'x' cloned. A fair deal.

Apple could sell their own hardware.

As for next year?

The only way I feel the fx is going anywhere is part of a new chip.

Did we get a bump on the 970? No.

Despite the much muted 2.5 IBM press release...the 970 didn't scale that high.

So we got FX 970 instead at 2.5 gig tops. No 2.1/2/3 or 4 gig. We got 1.8, 2.0 and 2.5. An odd line up of cpu speeds. The 2.5 not seeming that much faster than the 2.0.

So, IBM release a 2.8? Would you notice the difference between that and 2.5? I doubt it.

FX 970 isn't going anywhere except as part of the/a new chip.

2.0, 2.5 and 3 gig dual core Antares or 2.5, 2.7 and 3.0 or a 3.2 gig.

(This gives a low end consumer chip of '4' gig and pro chips at '5' and '6' gig. Looking light years ahead of G4 and G5 FX problems. On the current bandwidth and higher? Lightspeed...)

IBM say they'll have their problems ironed out by 1st quarter 2005.

ie catch up with PowerMac and iMac demand. That gives them another couple of quarters to make a buck out of a poorly ramped G5 fx chip.

Despite all its promise of low power this and that...and mhz galore...the Fx has been cocked up by IBM big time. Blushings be spared that Intel are now shipping Prescott in wayyyyy more volume at high mhz and AMD have barely a whiff of problems. So...who really got to 0.09 first?

Doesn't matter if you can't ship it, eh? Automation sounds nice but if you're getting materials peeling off and whopping heat hot spots on yer chip? And you can barely ramp higher on .09 than you could on .13?

Rumours indicate Apple will have Antares by August. Er...that's now folks. They've got samples.

IBM begins ramp up in Jan' while giving Apple a decent quarter on the current G5s.

March. Apple announces Antares. Dual Core 970FX that blows anthing the wintel platform have out the water. It doesn't ship until WWDC. (If we have the same problems aka the 970 FX.)

Still ahead of Intel and AMD.

It would be really embarrassing if IBM, maker supreme of dual and quad core chips, cannot ship a dual core cpu to Apple.

Seems IBM are not used to delivery in volume? Well, they did with the G3 for 200K iBooks... It's pretty pathetic that they can't hack 400K G5s (Powermacs/iMacs...) Perhaps they should open up one or two more assembly lines and put their back into it...

Two years later will 2005 WWDC be. The G3 didn't last that long before the next 'big' thing G4 arrived. So Apple needs another big lift to stay in the game. To think people criticised Wizard when he said the 970 was a place holder graphic.

It's looking that way. The Antares chip will restore a significant and indisputable edge over the Wintel opposition. With 'Tiger'? At last we will have our revenge...

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #24 of 282
'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005'Tiger'/Antares June 2005!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #25 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
....Two years later will 2005 WWDC be. The G3 didn't last that long before the next 'big' thing G4 arrived. So Apple needs another big lift to stay in the game. To think people criticised Wizard when he said the 970 was a place holder graphic.

It's looking that way. The Antares chip will restore a significant and indisputable edge over the Wintel opposition. With 'Tiger'? At last we will have our revenge...

Lemon Bon Bon

If the 970 was a "Place Holder" that points to the 970 based 970 being a "Place Holder" as well doesn't it? Based on the rumor about dual Power5/Power5 derivative chip being developed in tandom it would have made more sense to have the 970 ready to move into the consumer level computers when the derivative is released. Those rumors, optamistically, pointed at a release this year of that chip. If this were true then the dual core 970 looks to me like a fall back plan that IBM needed to implament becouse the Power 5 derivative chips did not meet it's scheduel.
post #26 of 282
Quote:
If this were true then the dual core 970 looks to me like a fall back plan that IBM needed to implament becouse the Power 5 derivative chips did not meet it's scheduel.

Yeah. You could be right. The 975 is offering an extra 30-40% by all acounts per clock.

Nice but Apple sits on said chip for a year and?

AMD/Intel are dual core.

When rightfully, it should be the Power derived PPC chip that leads us into the dual core age.

it would be a major embarrassment for IBM and Apple if the AI alliance could go dual core before mid 2005.

Both Intel and AMD have gone on aggressive road maps to go dual core by 2nd half 2005.

Apple doesn't want to be left sitting on its fanny aka Jan 2006 while Wintel chips are tossing dual processing 970 fx chips to the wolves.

Apple stores will look emtpy for desktop sales and they know it.

Ergo: Antares offering probably 80% more performance and offering prob' 40% more performance than the fabled 975. I'm guessing we'll see the 975 as a dual core chip aka 980 much later with memory controller and stuff?

Who knows.

Just my guesses on everything I've read on the .net so far...

I'm waiting for a 3 gig dual dual core Antares. That's my dream machine. With 'Tiger'. Pre-installed. If Apple could deliver an announcment on this by March 2005? They're going to break the 300K tower barrier.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #27 of 282
My guess is that the 2.5 is going to be at the top end for a long time, so buy now.

I think the supply problems Apple is having right now is costing it dear. Look at all the bad will and cost problems it has created by announcing the NV6800. They should have just announced the 2.5 with 9600 or 9800's and then released the NV6800 when NVIDIA is in a position to actually supply.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 12 month wait for the next PM, but I would go along with the suggestion of Lemon Bon Bon. I hope that next time Apple will take more trouble to avoid the current fiasco.
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post #28 of 282
The next big thing, will be the dual core G5 shipping in 2005. When ? : good question even for IBM I think.

Until this, I only_see minor updates of the powermac line. An update of the video card will be welcome, fasters HD will also help.
The speed of the chips will depends essentially of what IBM is able to produce. Currently they have problems to supply in huge quantities the PPC 970 fx at 2,5 ghz. 3 ghz was scheduled in the roadmap, but I don't think it won't ship before january 2005.
More than an increase of clock speed of the high end G5, I see a clock speed increase of the lower end models. The powermac line will begin at 2 ghz.
post #29 of 282
I was really, REALLY, disappointed with the last (and only) G5 speedbump. And 2.5GHz have only been shipping recently...so the speedbump has taken pretty much full year to arrive.

If the next speed bump happens before November and includes such things as PCIe with an x600 or x800 and clockspeeds at or beyond 3GHz and Dual Layer DVD burners, then I will gladly transfer money to Apple for goods and services.
post #30 of 282
You will be disappointed, kim kap sol.
post #31 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
The next big thing, will be the dual core G5 shipping in 2005. When ? : good question even for IBM I think.

Until this, I only_see minor updates of the powermac line. An update of the video card will be welcome, fasters HD will also help.
The speed of the chips will depends essentially of what IBM is able to produce. Currently they have problems to supply in huge quantities the PPC 970 fx at 2,5 ghz. 3 ghz was scheduled in the roadmap, but I don't think it won't ship before january 2005.
More than an increase of clock speed of the high end G5, I see a clock speed increase of the lower end models. The powermac line will begin at 2 ghz.

If and when the dual 2ghz becomes the entry level PM I may well ebay this single 1.8 and upgrade.
post #32 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by G-News
The next PM needs:

-DDR2 support
-PCIe support (drop AGP, 2xPCIe, 2xPCI-X)
-more internal space (4x3.5", 2x 5.25")
-SATA2
-decent graphics card standard (X600 and up)

if they manage to ship that, even if it's not at 3GHz, I'll buy it. Chances are, they won't hit 3GHz and won't upgrade even half of those points above.
Who else smells lemon?


I have to agree with the majority of that.
Especially -
- PCIe support - 2xPCIe, and 2, or 3, PCI-X.
- The case is still new, so I'm not sure where they are going to get the additional space.
- SATA2 I know little about because I stopped following.
- Pro Graphics card solution availability. #1 (this is a tie with 2xPCIe)

I think what they need is a - Second Pro class Mac. (a higher performing class workstation)

They could re-introduce the cube as an in-between at close to but a little less than the current PowerMac stats, and beef up the PowerMac with options that can evenly compare to BOXX, and Alienware.

Or add a ProMac (4th PowerMac at the store) in the PowerMac lineup, or aside from it. (my favorite solution)

My favorite solution (aside from it) is like a long/short term investment. Create the ProMac line. Within 3 generations it would sell close to as many as the PowerMac maybe more if VFX houses, and studios adopted it.

But the most Apple like (that's not a compliment) solution would to just offer this stuff in the 3rd Mac at the apple store (the most Powerful one), and put the Processor drop down back into the 2nd PowerMac. That way if the buyer doesn't want all the highend stuff he can choose the faster processor configuration in model 2. Simple enough as a start.
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post #33 of 282
I don't wish to spoil the party but isn't the NV6800 pro-graphics support?

Dual burners will be standard as soon as they do not constitute a premium price over the single layer, say MWSF.
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post #34 of 282
Quote:
Tiger'/Antares June 2005

Have you just guzzled a bottle of Lemon Liquor, Lemon BonBon, or was it rather a Lemon BongBong?


SATA2 in a nutshell: twice the bandwidth, more than one drive per bus possible.
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post #35 of 282
Quote:
Originally posted by Addison
I don't wish to spoil the party but isn't the NV6800 pro-graphics support?

AFAIK - They are rated as GeForce, not Quadro's.

GeForce = Gaming, and standard graphics support.

Quadro = ProGraphics.

If I new for a fact that the 6800 Ultra DDL had the all the Quadro GPU, Firmware, and drivers, and was getting QuadroFX 4000 #'s I would have bought the dual 2.5GHz PowerMac already.
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post #36 of 282
I'm perplexed that Apple doesn't offer a 'Quadro-ized' graphics card solution.

Here they are...offering Shake, Final Cut Pro etc...leading 'Pro' level software and they're dithering about with graphic card options.

Apple should have low-medium graphic card options on their low end model. Mid-high on their middle PowerMac. And Hi-Pro on their high end PowerMac.

How hard would that be?

ie dual 1.8 and 9600xt.

dual 2.0 Ati Radeon 9800xt

dual 2.5 Nvidia 6800

WITHOUT paying the goddamn extra.

Insulting.

A Quadro should be there as BTO.

Just enable the bloody drivers, Apple...build them and Open GL 2 into 'Tiger' for bejeebus sakes.

5 billion dollar company and they 'can't' do it?

Yeesh. Nvidia, 3D labs, Ati can do it. Are they as big as Apple?

Duh.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #37 of 282
And another gaddamn thing (while I'm withdrawing from prozac...)

How hard would it be to have:

1. A single cpu tower range in the £895-£1995 bracket?

1.8-2.5 gig.

2. Dual giggers as they are now.

3. And a True workstation line with pro graphic cards and ram etc. priced above dual range ie £2400-£3400.

Apple need to spread out what they've got more to maximise sales, switchers...all these new bio, unix and cluster markets they've just cracked.

Then there's the studio crowd that can't get enough of Maya and Shake on Mac.

Apple's current tower range is too limiting. It's freakin' one dimensional.

I can see it. Onlooker can see it. Most of the whingers on these boards can see it.

Do Apple listen to anyone at WWDC?

Listen to the Apple store shoppers...read the rumour boards, Apple and you'd get an idea that what people don't want is overpriced AIOs with crap graphic cards.

They either want a cool laptop or a honkin' tower.

Diversify your hardware, Apple. The desktop looks like it's been hit by a land mine...

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post #38 of 282
Yeah! What he said. !
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post #39 of 282
Quote:
Yeah! What he said. !

Damn straight!!!

LEmon BoN BOn...

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
post #40 of 282
If I was a moderator, you'd be banned until after the Apple Expo. No drugs, kids.
Matyoroy!
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Matyoroy!
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