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Kerry and 527's-We make beautiful love together - Page 2

post #41 of 64
Whatever happened to Sandy Berger?


-oh, I forgot, that wasn't "News"......



....nevermind

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
First do you deny that in my sig, Kerry admits to committing atrocities himself?

How about we start with this...



I'll go find some more after my work today.

Nick

Yeah, you do that Nick. But you might want to venture a little farther afield in your investigations than the usual right wing propaganda sites.

What you are unearthing now is the same bullshit that got heaped on these guys then, largely at the behest of Nixon, who was desperate to discredit what he considered a grave threat to public support for the war.

In fact, the one and only inconsistency that his henchmen were able to identify is that Al Hubbard misrepresented his rank.

Tell you what, after you fail to come up with any actual evidence that what you've said here is true (and actual evidence means something other than unsubstantiated right wing lies from 35 years ago, enshrined and enlarged by the credulous keepers of the faith), how bout you come back and apologize?

I know you won't, because 35 years form now you'll still be telling people that it was conclusively proven that Kerry lied about his medals.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #43 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Yeah, you do that Nick. But you might want to venture a little farther afield in your investigations than the usual right wing propaganda sites.

What you are unearthing now is the same bullshit that got heaped on these guys then, largely at the behest of Nixon, who was desperate to discredit what he considered a grave threat to public support for the war.

In fact, the one and only inconsistency that his henchmen were able to identify is that Al Hubbard misrepresented his rank.

Tell you what, after you fail to come up with any actual evidence that what you've said here is true (and actual evidence means something other than unsubstantiated right wing lies from 35 years ago, enshrined and enlarged by the credulous keepers of the faith), how bout you come back and apologize?

I know you won't, because 35 years form now you'll still be telling people that it was conclusively proven that Kerry lied about his medals.

You're not going to be convincing refuting my information with ranting monologues.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You're not going to be convincing refuting my information with ranting monologues.

Nick


You're the one who's ranting and ignoring the information.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #45 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Whatever happened to Sandy Berger?


-oh, I forgot, that wasn't "News"......



....nevermind

I believe he was cleared of all wrongdoing. The "liberal media" didn't report it, though. I wonder why...?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #46 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
You're the one who's ranting and ignoring the information.

Come now jimmac, I do provide information, links and other such items when posting. Adda doesn't rant too often and when he does it takes pretty much the same pattern each time. It is almost a little cute.

First he has to disparage all information given. It is lies, from right wing rags, everyone who says it is in with Rove, etc.

Then we get into the future. My future, the countries future, everyone's future.

The in the later parts (sometimes earlier) we get the rant about evidence, repeated lies, etc. (which is pretty much the earlier part repeated)

Then again the future, the country, myself, something, he swears it will all go into the toilet.

I can almost imagine the pulsing vein on the forehead or neck...

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Come now jimmac, I do provide information, links and other such items when posting. Adda doesn't rant too often and when he does it takes pretty much the same pattern each time. It is almost a little cute.

First he has to disparage all information given. It is lies, from right wing rags, everyone who says it is in with Rove, etc.

Then we get into the future. My future, the countries future, everyone's future.

The in the later parts (sometimes earlier) we get the rant about evidence, repeated lies, etc. (which is pretty much the earlier part repeated)

Then again the future, the country, myself, something, he swears it will all go into the toilet.

I can almost imagine the pulsing vein on the forehead or neck...

Nick

Absolutely. I'm half crazed. Or in the parlance of the Bush white house, "a little bit wild eyed".

Anywho, perhaps you would like to provide some evidence of your allegations? Linking to websites that make unattributed statements without any support is not evidence, not here, not anywhere. Linking to many such websites doesn't improve on that.

The reason you don't (and can't) provide actual documentation of these lies is because the things you are saying are not true. That's pretty much the long and the short of it.

Now you are free to imagine anything you like about my personal demeanor, if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make the things you are saying any truer.

There is an inherent poverty of information within right wing information outlets. They are, first and foremost, a venue for emotional appeals to a certain world view, and not at all (or only incidentally), places for gleaning the factual record.

Moreover, because the internet is rife with such entities, the factual record is often buried under literally thousands of like minded sites and posts that are, more often than not, quoting each other in a kind of circle jerk of self reinforcing mythology.

Which is what the distortion of the Winter Soldier testimony you are repeating is, in fact.

My goodness, I just read over what I have written and I must be practically bellowing at my computer, it sounds so unhinged and enraged.

Sorry.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Come now jimmac, I do provide information, links and other such items when posting. Adda doesn't rant too often and when he does it takes pretty much the same pattern each time. It is almost a little cute.

First he has to disparage all information given. It is lies, from right wing rags, everyone who says it is in with Rove, etc.

Then we get into the future. My future, the countries future, everyone's future.

The in the later parts (sometimes earlier) we get the rant about evidence, repeated lies, etc. (which is pretty much the earlier part repeated)

Then again the future, the country, myself, something, he swears it will all go into the toilet.

I can almost imagine the pulsing vein on the forehead or neck...

Nick


That's better than being presented with the facts ( which other's have previously done for you here so I'm not going to repeat that effort )and being in denial.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
First do you deny that in my sig, Kerry admits to committing atrocities himself?

How about we start with this...

<flurry of crap about winter soldiers with nothing backing it up>


I'll go find some more after my work today.

Nick

Well that's great.
Where are the LINKS to back these allegations up?
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Come now jimmac, I do provide information, links and other such items when posting

So you say, but I don't see it...
eye
bee
BEE
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eye
bee
BEE
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post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I believe he was cleared of all wrongdoing. The "liberal media" didn't report it, though. I wonder why...?



NON

SENSE



link?


(if I'm wrong I'll kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw a crowd)



*crosses fingers*

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
NON

SENSE



link?


(if I'm wrong I'll kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw a crowd)



*crosses fingers*

Takin' candy from a baby.

Pucker up.

meh
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meh
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post #52 of 64
Here's the text from the Wall Street Journal article (you have to have a subscription to see the original):

Officials looking into the removal of classified documents from the National Archives by former Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel Berger say no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Several prominent Republicans, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, have voiced suspicion that when Mr. Berger was preparing materials for the 9/11 Commission on the Clinton administration's antiterror actions, he may have removed documents that were potentially damaging to the former president's record.

The conclusion by archives officials and others would seem to lay to rest the issue of whether any information was permanently destroyed or withheld from the commission.

Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper said officials there "are confident that there aren't any original documents missing in relation to this case." She said in most cases, Mr. Berger was given photocopies to review, and that in any event officials have accounted for all originals to which he had access.

That included all drafts of a so-called after-action report prepared by the White House and federal agencies in 2000 after the investigation into a foiled bombing plot aimed at the Millennium celebrations. That report and earlier drafts are at the center of allegations that Mr. Berger might have permanently removed some records from the archives. Some of the allegations have related to the possibility that drafts with handwritten notes on them may have disappeared, but Ms. Cooper said archives staff are confident those documents aren't missing either.

Daniel Marcus, general counsel of the 9/11 Commission, said the panel had been assured twice by the Justice Department that no originals were missing and that all of the material Mr. Berger had access to had been turned over to the commission. "We are told that the Justice Department is satisfied that we've seen everything that the archives saw," and "nothing was missing," he said.

Just out of curiosity, have you guys ever been right about anything yet?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
NON

SENSE
link?
(if I'm wrong I'll kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw a crowd)

*crosses fingers*

Obviously another right-media casualty . . .

how's it taste?!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #54 of 64
From the NYT:
Quote:
President Bush said on Thursday that he did not believe Senator John Kerry lied about his war record
post #55 of 64
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #56 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
NON

SENSE



link?


(if I'm wrong I'll kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw a crowd)



*crosses fingers*

Looks like the others got to it before I did. Stupid work keeping me from getting my ass kissed.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #57 of 64
I think your ass is safe, midwinter. As far as I know, Berger hasn't been cleared. The Archives might have said that nothing was missing, but the allegation is that he took copies of files, which, if true, is illegal. The Archives can't clear someone themselves.
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I think your ass is safe, midwinter. As far as I know, Berger hasn't been cleared. The Archives might have said that nothing was missing, but the allegation is that he took copies of files, which, if true, is illegal. The Archives can't clear someone themselves.

Its all but official:
Quote:
National Archive officials looking into the Berger affair had determined "no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks." The Journal report continued, "Daniel Marcus, general counsel of the 9/11 Commission, said the panel had been assured twice by the Justice Department that no originals were missing and that all of the material Mr. Berger had access to had been turned over to the commission. 'We are told that the Justice Department is satisfied that we've seen everything that the archives saw,' and 'nothing was missing,' he said."

The Department of Justice is still investigating the fact that Berger breached policy by removing copies of a classified "after-action report" that he had ordered to study the Clinton administration's handling of terrorist threats at the time of the millennium. Berger, who admitted the removal and returned some copies after being contacted by government officials, has said it was unintentional.

Policy was probably breached, but nothing happened that threatened any documents . . . the only thing that got hurt by any of this, as usual where the media and Bushco is concerned, is the Kerry campaign image.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #59 of 64
MoveOn add. Good for the people...

http://cdn.moveon.org/data/ShutUp_Final_BbandLo.mov
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #60 of 64
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Looks like the others got to it before I did. Stupid work keeping me from getting my ass kissed.


No smoochie for you.



I can't post here with this kind of willfull ignorance passing for common knowledge


---> Berger took what he should not and that is the issue; NOT that he put all the material that he admitted taking, back.


Give me a break.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No smoochie for you.



I can't post here with this kind of willfull ignorance passing for common knowledge


---> Berger took what he should not and that is the issue; NOT that he put all the material that he admitted taking, back.


Give me a break.

I thought the issue(in this thread) was whether or not he was cleared? not what he did.
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #63 of 64
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No smoochie for you.



I can't post here with this kind of willfull ignorance passing for common knowledge


---> Berger took what he should not and that is the issue; NOT that he put all the material that he admitted taking, back.


Give me a break.

You: "Whatever happened to Sandy Berger?"

Me: "I believe he was cleared of all wrongdoing."

You: "NONSENSE. link? (if I'm wrong I'll kiss your ass and give you 30 minutes to draw a crowd)"

Others: Links and quotes indicating that Justice is satisfied, even though policy was breached.

You: "Berger took what he should not and that is the issue; NOT that he put all the material that he admitted taking, back."

Clearly, the issue is whether or not Berger has been cleared. He has. Pucker the fuck up.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #64 of 64
He still hasn't been cleared of all wrongdoing. He was under investigation, and the investigators have said that the 9/11 commission had access to everything. That could be because everything Berger took was a copy. In any case, no one from Justice has come out and said "Berger isn't being investigated any more and no charges will be pressed." That may happen in the future, but it hasn't happened yet. So please, no smooching.
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