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Ex-governor of Texas says he is "ashamed" he helped the rich (dubya) avoid Vietnam - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
there is no correlation there.

You're not making sense. You're saying that military credentials are not an important element to being commander in chief.

You're not making any sense.
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
You're not making sense. You're saying that military credentials are not an important element to being commander in chief.

You're not making any sense.

no, i am most certainly not saying that and that is not at all what you said either

Quote:
Well he has to tackle the issue of security, so his Vietnam experience is essential. Plus, I assume he'll expand on his campaign after the RNC. If he doesn't, then he's an idio

vietnam experience has absolutely no correlation to being able to tackle issues of security for the nation. nothing in military service trains you for that and any idiot can be drafted and serve. just because you were in the military does not make these things easier for you or you more capable of handling them.
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Kerry spoke to his record at the convention. Since then it's been about defending himself against lies.

What does "going on and on about" mean, anyway?

Never mind, I'm not interested in your thought process.


And before the convention too. Haven't you been paying attention? Kerry never misses a chance to remind people he served in Vietnam.
post #44 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
no, i am most certainly not saying that and that is not at all what you said either



vietnam experience has absolutely no correlation to being able to tackle issues of security for the nation. nothing in military service trains you for that and any idiot can be drafted and serve. just because you were in the military does not make these things easier for you or you more capable of handling them.

I disagree.

As I said before
Quote:
his record is still worth us respecting him . . . the slander targetted his strength and threw lies and shit at it . . . some people are turned off because they don't have the time or energy to look through all of the evidence which shows that the SBVets are outright lyers . . . and so the poll-points are down . . . . but the truth is still that we should consider the difference of character implicit in the past

but still, Kerry brought up his service because he served well, and his service shows character and leadership when the pinch is on . . . . . he didn't stop to stare vacantly for seven minutes -with a school marm prattling away- amidst a catastrophe and danger, he thought fast and acted and saved someone . . . he also was willing to take a real burden on himself rather than simply take a defferment . . . and then he risked all for stating what he felt was the Truth in a volatile era.

There is nothing wrong with Kerry bringing up his service . . . it isn't his fault that it makes NeoCons so enraged that they will dishonor themselves to smear him . . . partly out of fear that Bush's record will look like drug binge-ing and cushioned spoon-feeding in comparison, and partly because they think that the hippies lost Vietnam
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"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
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post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
check your timeline sir.


Better hold on to something!
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post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
vietnam experience has absolutely no correlation to being able to tackle issues of security for the nation. nothing in military service trains you for that and any idiot can be drafted and serve. just because you were in the military does not make these things easier for you or you more capable of handling them.

So you are saying that military experience isn't valuable experience for military service. That doesn't make any sense.

And what does the draft have to do with someone that volunteered?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
So you are saying that military experience isn't valuable experience for military service. That doesn't make any sense.

And what does the draft have to do with someone that volunteered?

reading comprehension. it's tough. learned in the 1-6 grades. ask your kids maybe.
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
reading comprehension. it's tough. learned in the 1-6 grades. ask your kids maybe.

Backed into a corner and all you can do is throw out a personal attack. Sad.

Well regardless of what you're willing to admit, I think most people agree that Kerry volunteering to join the military during a time of war is certainly a superior prerequisite for the President of the United States than Bush's cowardice in the face of terror.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Backed into a corner and all you can do is throw out a personal attack. Sad.

you know all about that.

again, reading comprehension goes a long way. i know you have a problem with that since you only read what you want and what you can argue.

sad.
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
vietnam experience has absolutely no correlation to being able to tackle issues of security for the nation. nothing in military service trains you for that and any idiot can be drafted and serve. just because you were in the military does not make these things easier for you or you more capable of handling them.

\

While I agree, (I often hold draft-dodgers in higher esteem than I do veterans), I think you're missing the point about what Kerry is saying about how his military service informed his current views. He's been very specific: Kerry frequently talks about the "lessons" he learned in Vietnam-- often framing his military service in that context rather than the one you describe. Some that I'm sure everyone is familiar with from his acceptance speech:

Quote:
"Our band of brothers doesn't march together because of who we are as veterans, but because of what we learned as soldiers. We fought for this nation because we loved it and we came back with the deep belief that every day is extra._"

"And as President, I will bring back this nation's time-honored tradition: the United States of America never goes to war because we want to, we only go to war because we have to.


I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe._ I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true._


As President, I will wage this war with the lessons I learned in war._ Before you go to battle, you have to be able to look a parent in the eye and truthfully say: "I tried everything possible to avoid sending your son or daughter into harm's way. But we had no choice. We had to protect the American people, fundamental American values from a threat that was real and imminent."_ So lesson one, this is the only justification for going to war.


And on my first day in office, I will send a message to every man and woman in our armed forces: You will never be asked to fight a war without a plan to win the peace."

That, I think you should agree, is relevant.
post #51 of 54
Of course SPJ Kerry does not march with his "band of brothers" because a lot of them don't want to march with him.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Of course SPJ Kerry does not march with his "band of brothers" because a lot of them don't want to march with him.

Because they want to deny that atrocities happened in Vietnam. And because they like Bush/are conservatives. Those are the only reasons for them to not like Kerry. And those reasons are not enough for those of us who actually put some thought into things and hold integrity in high regard.
post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Because they want to deny that atrocities happened in Vietnam. And because they like Bush/are conservatives. Those are the only reasons for them to not like Kerry. And those reasons are not enough for those of us who actually put some thought into things and hold integrity in high regard.

Well said.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
\

While I agree, (I often hold draft-dodgers in higher esteem than I do veterans), I think you're missing the point about what Kerry is saying about how his military service informed his current views. He's been very specific: Kerry frequently talks about the "lessons" he learned in Vietnam-- often framing his military service in that context rather than the one you describe. Some that I'm sure everyone is familiar with from his acceptance speech:



That, I think you should agree, is relevant.

of course. however, i still don't see any correlation of them making Kerry more suitable for handling national security.

i just don't see how one and one connect.
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