Intelligent people not voting: why?!

I think the big reason to not vote, is when you live in a state that is firmly republican or firmly democratic, your vote doesn't really mean anything.

if you're voting democrat and you live in california, it's not a big deal, california is definitely going to Kerry. If you are voting republican and you live in texas...same deal, texas is definitely going to Bush. Given that Bush won 2000 based on the electoral college, it makes it a bit futile if you live in one of these states.

It seems selfish to me, like trying to get out of jury duty or something. It's your responsibility as a citizen to vote. It's not about you, it's about your country and your participation in its institutions. No choice is ever perfect. When I bought a house recently none of the possibilities was exactly right. So what? That's life.

It also seems kind of passive to say "none of the candidates turns me on." People always blame the politicians for not being good enough. How about our responsibility as voters to become engaged? We're not supposed to be just passive recipients of politics. It's not like watching cable TV where you flip around hoping something catches your interest, and if not, you turn it off and grumble that "nothing's on."

I also wonder to what extent the electoral college contributes to the apathy. It's not like fellowship's vote in Texas is going to matter. If every vote counted toward the total, I wonder if there would be more motivation to vote.

I understand not voting. It is a feeling of hopelessness.

I think F-Ship should vote for Kerry, it will make him feel good.

In my case "selfishness" has nothing to do with my choice "at this point" not to vote in the presidential election this fall. I find much that I disagree with in the republican party which I once supported. I see the republican party of today leaning much too far to the right socially for my comfort. I do not think a constitutional amendment is needed to "protect" marriage. I do not think the Christian right should dictate policy over all in the country of diversity we call America. I think real leadership consists of a message of uniting Americans over one of dividing Americans. Real leadership does not mislead the public when in power. I believe I am very much jaded by President Bush. I believe President Bush has mislead us in his rush to invade Iraq. I believe President Bush has used and abused 9/11 emotion in a most dishonorable manner.

I believe President Bush has only displayed an arrogance which will affect the future of international politics concerning energy policy in an age of increasing energy consumption worldwide. The actions in Iraq may very well set America on future courses of conflict with such countries as China and others in quests to control energy sources. The money spent on the War in (Invasion of) Iraq could have been spent to develop policy and R&D for future energy technologies.

John Kerry and John Edwards... I am not very impressed with these two either. Kerry says whatever it takes to pander to the audience at the moment he is addressing. His opinion changes day to day and this is driven by his desire to be all things to all people as a political trick. The problem is that he seems to lose al integrity with me when he is this plastic over issues.

This leads me to why I am not voting. I place much importance with the integrity of a leader and with both campaigns this election I am more then left in the dark when it comes to viewing any lumens of light (integrity) from any of these people.

What I wish I did see in this election period:

Discussion of College funding for all american students.
Discussion of a universal health care plan which covers all.
Discussion of energy policy.
Discussion of environmental policy improvements.
Discussion of trade policy revisions and standards.
Discussion of anti-trust dangers in media consolidation.
Discussion of international policy and diplomacy

Fellows

You are a Christian-love liberal if I have ever seen one.
And you know what? I love you for it. *hugs*

I am likely not going to vote for Kerry, and I have never voted for an R or D for president, so I understand not doing it. But I think Christian liberals need to get active. I can't imagine the automatic social link between Christianity and the Republican party is a good thing for Christian Americans.

My brother is having the same problem; very devoted to Jesus, very disturbed by Republican policies, very concerned with the state of the poor and the environment.

Not voting in an election is stupid. You don't need democracy then. Even if you are the only vote in the entire state for a candidate, it makes a difference. Stop becoming sheep and express yourself!

Exactly. Not voting proves nothing. You don't effect political change by being apathetic. You get out there and you do something.

Fellow, do you realize only 69% of eligible voters in your state are registered and only 43% of eligible voters actually showed up to the polls in 2000? We're told time and time again that this state is repub and that is dem but the reality is we don't know because the voter turnout is so low. Imagine if you and 3.3 million other voters voted dem to send a message to the republican part from your state? It would shift the face of politics for years. I got the 3.3 million for the 2000 election numbers which show only 6.4 million showed up to the polls that year. Do you actually think Texas will be significantly different this time around? I don't, simply because y'all are told not to vote dem because your throwing your vote away in a republican state.

Vote. Vote for the lesser of two evils in your mind because that is what is before you. Not voting does nothing for America. Another thing to consider, if you do vote dem and Texas does go Repub then you've lost nothing but added your voice to the side opposing the current admin.

Not voting does absolutely nothing for you, me, Texas, the US. Not voting only helps the sitting president.

If you are truly disgruntled with Bush what what good will not voting actually serve? I'm sorry these guys are not addressing your concerns as of yet. If you want information (I know Kerry has addresses a couple of those topics) call the local DNC/RNC headquarters. Get literature. Go to their web pages. Kerry has addresses a couple of the issues while Bush has said nothing to date. What good will come of not voting?

http://www.fec.gov/pages/2000turnout/reg&to00.htm

And not voting is the best way to solve this problem?


Gee, on one hand we have the anti-christ, on the other we have someone you perceive a bit washy. And you are having difficulty chosing?


These are all worthy points, but Fellowship, your ego about what you want to be adressed is more important than the next 4 years of American future? I think you should just vote for Bush, if all of Bush's faults you rightly recognise don't move you to at least have him replaced, even if its with someone you slightly don't like, then why be in denial? Just vote Bush and at least you'll be popular amongst your friends.

thanks faust, I mean, I was going to vote anyway, but I was starting to feel a bit glum about it, but your post, particularly this part, is good stuff.

Voting and marriage.

I see these two things the same way. I will vote for or marry someone I choose because I see reasons to and am inspired to for good reason.

I would rather not vote or marry if it is the wrong person.

Just watch Jerry Springer or view American leadership to see what happens when you just marry / vote for anyone.

Sometimes it is better not to vote / marry

Give me someone to vote for or marry who I admire, respect, find honorable who is full of integrity and I will vote for / marry them.

If not,, NOT.

Fellows

There is no such creature in politics.

If Im honest, I completely agree with you in principle.

But you are going to get 'married' to one of them wether you like it or not. The bitch you loved has screwed you around, lied, deceived you for the last 4 years, the other one has no real record, hasn't done any of the above, but you think her ass is a bit fat. Yeah, let someone else decide your wife.

You'd have to be a moran to vote for Kerry.

In other terms I will say it like this..

I endorse someone or I do not.

In this pair up of "would be leaders" I endorse not a single one of them.

I know you would like me to support one of the campaigns but you see I am not inclined to. The reality is that I am happy with my stance and it is "ok" not to vote for poor and faulty leaders of any party under the sun.

Fellows

Good point. Like it or not, one of these chuckle-heads is going to be the "leader of the free world."

How is it OK? In the end one of these guys will be elected. Not voting simply ensures you have made no attempt to be a part of the system.

I do not have to put my endorsement behind a campaign.

This does not hault "democracy"

I do not have to pretend to support any agent.

I represent myself.

Fellows

Im glad im not your wife!!!

I'm not going to argue the point any longer (though I should). I can tell you have not looked into either candidate. You choose to be ignorant (not a personal attack just an observation) about the various stances. You are choosing to throw away a responsability given to you over time. Your choice is wrong in no other uncertain terms.

1971--18 y/o's get the right to vote
1964--Blacks, minorities, and the poor are freed of poll taxes.
1920--Women get the right to vote
1870--Race not a reason to be excluded from the polls.
1800'ish--By this time most state and local governments had removed the requirement of 40 acres of land to vote.

All those years of strugle and you choose to abstain.

The country asks so little of us. To abdicate even the most fundamental - and easiest - of civic responsibilities is truly pathetic and deserving of nothing but contempt. It's America's "me" generation at its finest. But don't worry fellowship, you fit right in, because you're just like half of Americans.

I have voted in every election local, state and national since becoming of legal age to participate. I do realize it is an honor which not all in history and this day have had or have to their advantage.

I am not planning on voting for Bush/Kerry this election.

Thank you,

Fellows

Exactly!!!

This link again: http://www.fec.gov/pages/2000turnout/reg&to00.htm

Scroll to the bottom and look at the total voter turnout for the nation. 51.3% That is shitty to say the least. How can anyone who doesn't vote complain about America when they can't even muster the courage to go to the polls and register their displeasure with one party or the other. Change does not happen with you sitting a t home hoping others will make thhe right decisions for you. Change happens when you stand up to be counted.

It is not my nature to be negative and skeptical but you do know that the only states that matter are the "swing" states.

Why? for most states the entire vote goes to one party or the other.

State A votes democrat 99% of the time where by the voters voted 60% Democrat 40% republican. 40% of votes thrown out the window. Why even vote republican in this state?

State B votes republican 99% of the time where by the voters voted 60% Republican 40% Democrat. 40% of the votes thrown out the window. Why even vote democrat in this state?

State C (swing state) votes democrat 50% of the time republican 50% of the time. Politicians pander to members of this state with any political candy they can muster to throw their way as to buy votes. Be it steel tax policy, farm subsidies, what have you.

Because the playing field is so dismal to begin with it is this much more necessary to have something worth voting for in a presidential election.

Fellows

Might as well just scrap votes all together in states A & B, and just throw a coin to decide the C's then.

If you are concerned about this being the situation in my life experience you would be mistaken. I live in Dallas / Fort Worth and this place is very progressive and not afraid of diversity. I just got back from Orlando Florida and I forgot what a regressive place that place is. It felt backwards, poor, and I did not see a lot of progressive push bumper stickers like I see in other parts of the country.

Now in a small town I am sure some people are afraid to vote outside their conservative town's wishes for them. This is sad and weak.

I just wanted to be clear this is not something to worry about with the ole Fellows.

I speak my mind and I have done such with all I come in contact with in my life.

Fellows

I already posted the reason why you should vote above. Texas: only 43% of the elegible electorate showed up to vote. Even if 100% of that 43% voter republican, the other 57% is unaccounted for. 43% did not vote republican. Let me recapitulate, telling someone they are from a Repub. or Dem. state is not a true statement in most instances. Texas is touted as a Repub. state yet we have no proof because so few turned out to vote in the 2000 (or any election sin 1968 for that matter).

Here's some bigtime news: 37% of that 43% voted democratic in 2000!!! http://elections.sos.state.tx.us/elchist.exe

The myth of a Republican or Democratic state is just that--a MYTH. If you vote you can show the myth to be just what it is.

[edit] Out of 6.4 million cast votes, 2.3 million when to Gore and 4.1 went to Bush. If the media would quite lying about the myth then the other 57% of the Texas electorate might easily change the balance of power in Texas.

It is important to speak out, I think. Someone has suggested you vote for the lesser of two evils, but there's Karl Krauss' comment (I think):

My humble suggestion to Fellowship, were he interested, would be to take thirty minutes and investigate a third party candidate. Or to write in John McCain (I'm guessing he's of interest), or someone else. Anyone else. In this way the vote registers both as participation in this democracy (a civic duty we should all embrace) but also the disgust at the two primary candidates is also recorded.

FWIW

I vote for Fellowship

It's unfortunate that democrats have no better candidates than Kerry (they had, but they loose in the primaries).

It's also unfortunate, that Bush give a so bad image of US and therefore the occidental word.


Even if Kerry is the next president, US and in a more general way, occident will have to face great dangers.

I'll tell you what you do. You Rock the fucking Vote. I'm doing that at my college, got 10 people registered myself. Get out there. Get your friends to vote. There is no reason not to vote. You have to have an opinion one way or another. If you don't vote you have NO right to complain. Like the current philosopher P. Diddy says "VOTE OR DIE!!!!

I read a Kerry transcript that included--of all things-- a semicolon!!!

"...;however,..."

Low voter turnout is the curse of successful, prosperous, affluent democracies.
The general mediocrity of the political class (with glaring exceptions here and there), the cynicism vis-Ã*-vis the political visions, and the feeling that the political process does not really improve the situation as in the cliché Âno political solution discourage those who actually value the representative regime.
This gives those seeking to challenge, erode, or weaken the democratic state, opportunity to achieve their goals by the way of more efficient organisation and mobilisation.

I notice that among my extended family living in North America and Western Europe, many feel that their vote wouldn't weigh anything and that the candidates are either lunatic dangerous scum or unworthy twerps you wouldn't buy an apple from.

It's not a case of Âlesser of two evils as evil is a rare commodity, but while evil does inspire passion, mediocrity inspires yawn, which only helps the passionate rivals.

So I urge them to vote for the unworthy twerp you wouldn't buy an apple from, whose politics are the closest to decency.


Being rather ignorant on that matter, and having arrived at trusting your judgement, I take your word for it.
Despite the many flaws of the candidates and the antiquated and wasteful voting process you described above, I hope you will make the choice of voting come next November.

Fellowship,

Vote Nader. Write him in if he isn't on the ballot! I understand your position exactly. The Democratic party is pandering too much to the right and it must stop. The only way make them stop is to saliently deny them votes. Not voting can't send that message.

Fellowship, if Howard Dean was the nomineee instead of Kerry, would you vote for him? I know I would.

ZING.