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Apple unveils the new iMac G5 - Page 4

post #121 of 441
Doesn't this make the PoerMacs and LCD displays now look really quite expensive??? I know they're Dual processor etc but still, that's only another £150 say, plus witht he iMac you get a 17" LCD... \
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post #122 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
So it's not WYSIWYG?

No, it's not. Apple computers are much nicer in person . Well, at least the more recent models, and especially what comes in white.
post #123 of 441
don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but if this wasn't a test run for a G5 powerbook design, then i'll eat my hat. move that screen off the front into a flip-up screen, and you remove half that thickness for the screen, necessary cables, and whatever mojo they've constructed to keep the G5 from boiling the lcd.

now they just have to take the lessons they learned with the imac G5, and shave off another lil' bit o' thickness, and you've got the powerbook G5. (p.s. please, any hardware engineers on these boards, don't kill me for making it sound so easy...)

i'm kinda surprised there's no 2.0 GHz single to be found. i mean, would an extra 200 MHz been that hard to handle, engineering-wise, or is it a matter of chip supply? also, sooner or later they are going to have to do something to accommodate faster video cards, and i don't think either ATi or nVidia are really concerned about making their cards any smaller any time soon. hell, my geforce4 ti is a friggin' TANK.

still not sure if i LIKE the design, but i am IMPRESSED by its engineering. time will tell if people vote with their dollars...
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post #124 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
Doesn't this make the PoerMacs and LCD displays now look really quite expensive???

Or you can tell that the new iMacs are a very good deal. But don't tell Matsu .
post #125 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
No, it's not. Apple computers are much nicer in person . Well, at least the more recent models, and especially what comes in white.


Agreed, but the white Macs (racist pig) gets scratched to easy, looks great out of the box and the first few months. Later it looks like the Mac to a sponge bath with a Brio Pad. \
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post #126 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by rambovi
Any thoughts on why Apple isn't including Firewire 800 on the new iMac?

For the time being, it looks like FW 800 makes part of the Professional/Consumer differentiation feature list. But I believe it will come with time.
post #127 of 441
I'm lost for words. I can't believe that Apple has released that thing.

It's a pizza box mounted on a ring-pull.

And what's with the big Jimmy Hill chin? Surely they could have come up with a more elegant design than that?

I can't see who's going to buy this product. There can only be so many people that are willing to pay WAY over the odds for a well designed machine that isn't well designed.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #128 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
time will tell if people vote with their dollars...


Ahh, your voting for Bush to.
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post #129 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
And what's with the big Jimmy Hill chin?


Pssst, no one knows who Jimmy Hill is outside of Europe. This is an American board.
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post #130 of 441
I posted this in previous thread but it still holds true I think...

You have got to be kidding me! This is what the wait was for? This is the best Apple could do? I mean lets look at this realisticly, Org iMac Incredible design for it's day. iMac Gen 2 Incredible design that set new standards in computer design. G4 Powermacs turned a bland box into (I think) another peace of furniture. Now look at the designs comming out of Apple. A tower that is oversized that looks like a cheese grater. And now an iMac that looks like something a PC builder would come up with. The tech behind the new G5 iMac, bad ass. The Design, what a joke. Could they have made it any more plain and ugly to look at especialy after the G4 iMac. And to think I waited to get this. Well I guess I get the Powermac chesse greater. S**T !!!!!!!
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post #131 of 441
I am just jawdropped at this, it is amazing.

It's funny, you can basically tell that the ACDs were meant to be announced along with these iMacs at WWDC.
post #132 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by rambovi
Any thoughts on why Apple isn't including Firewire 800 on the new iMac?


Apparently Apple thought this was to much value for the useless swine of a consumer who can't afford a real Mac, the Powermac that is.
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post #133 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
Pssst, no knows who Jimmy Hill is outside of Europe. This is an American board.

Actually, I do and I agree. What is with that chin!
And yes, a PC can be had cheaper but I want a MAC!
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And yes, a PC can be had cheaper but I want a MAC!
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post #134 of 441
Where are the expo pictures of the iMac?
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post #135 of 441
I think it looks great...but why put a powerhouse cpu in it, then give it a horribly old GPU? i mean, not even industry standard 128MB ram!! The 5200 is very long in tooth and can't handle any current games at a decent resolution and with any anti-aliasing options. Well, Apple strikes out with this one, they should have put a better GPU in, at bare minimum a 9600pro/xt. They have limited this CPU to a web browsing/digital media computer. No gamer in his/her right mind would buy the iMac G5 since the graphical requirements of todays games are far beyond that of what the 5200 Ultra can handle. I'm sure Doom 3 will eventually be out for mac, but when it does will anyone have a computer that will be to handle it (no)...even the Powermacs are coming with the lowly 9600XT.(which is a sub $150 card in the PC world.) Such is why as a Mac user for many many years I have built my own PC for gaming...Mac's simply aren't any competition.
post #136 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
NOT (in reference to the new iMac at $1299)

rather in reference to the specification at 1299. No superdrive, half the industry standard RAM and HDD size for machines in the same price range. You could get away with one or the other of those, but not both.

Addressing the RAM/HDD inequity will cost you 200, so the real cost of entry is now 1500 for a superdriveless model, and 1700 for a superdrive model.

Unnacceptable.

It will sell well to macheads for the first quarter, then tapper off, same as the sunflower.

Apple better be holding some significant updates for the next rev, if they don't plan on touching the 17" model's price.

Needs AT LEAST 512MB of RAM and 120GB hdd at that price, and more like 160 by the time Apple get's around to it (at least 3 months, more like 6 or 9!)

Look at the ridiculous premium for getting your 512MB BTO in one slot!

Once the macheads get theirs, this model ain't going anywhere unless they make some changes.

Dell Dimension 4600
P4 2.8GHz
Win XP Pro
256MB DDR SDRAM <-- same
80GB Ultra ATA HDD <-- same (iMac probably better off with SATA)
Dual drives DVD-ROM and CDRW
128MB GeForce FX 5200 <-- more memory than iMac
Added speakers (cheapest ones)
Firewire (had to add this for $50)
17" Ultrasharp flat panel
Free printer

$1287 with discounts

The iMac stacks up well against this for a very similar price with a *much* better software package.

Also Sony V series AIO
2.6GHz P4
Integrated SIS graphics w/32MB shared memory
512MB DDR SDRAM
120GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive
Wireless mouse and keyboard
15" Xbrite screen

starting at...
$1499

Sony W series AIO
2.8GHz P4
Integrated SIS graphics w/32MB shared memory
512MB DDR SDRAM
200GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD±RW / CD-RW Drive
17.5" LCD
15" Xbrite screen

Starting at...

$1999

The new iMac is fine (not perfect but fine) and some of you are mixing up fantasy with reality of actual retail PC prices. People often mix "build it yourself" prices with those of actual off the shelf prices you would pay at CompUSA/Bestbuy/Circuit City or even off the web (where I just got these prices).

Check out those nice *Non upgradeable* graphics Sony offers.

I'm sure with more effort I could find some cheaper ones but overall I picked decent (as decent as PCs get) examples.
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post #137 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by rambovi
Any thoughts on why Apple isn't including Firewire 800 on the new iMac?


Wait how's this, "Apple Employee: Sir we have a problem were only making 60% percent margin on the new iMacs", "Apple Manager: Quick get rid of something else, loose that $1.50 update to firewire 800."
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post #138 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by DGNR8
I posted this in previous thread but it still holds true I think...

You have got to be kidding me! This is what the wait was for? This is the best Apple could do? I mean lets look at this realisticly, Org iMac Incredible design for it's day. iMac Gen 2 Incredible design that set new standards in computer design. G4 Powermacs turned a bland box into (I think) another peace of furniture. Now look at the designs comming out of Apple. A tower that is oversized that looks like a cheese grater. And now an iMac that looks like something a PC builder would come up with. The tech behind the new G5 iMac, bad ass. The Design, what a joke. Could they have made it any more plain and ugly to look at especialy after the G4 iMac. And to think I waited to get this. Well I guess I get the Powermac chesse greater. S**T !!!!!!!

i REALLY like it and i'm considering to get one!
the imac is by far the best "good looking" "pc" i've ever seen. just because you don't like it, doesn't mean anyone likes it...
as for the chin, well, in fact i would prefer one more inch thick for less chin...
post #139 of 441
As with the sunflower design, it seems to be a love it/hate it thing.

Personally, I really like it. It's not as novel as the Sunflower (a design that i love), but it's smooth, clean and it takes up very, very little desk space.

Does it accomplish what it needs to accomplish? For me, yes. And i think it probably accomplishes what Apple want it to accomplish.

It is designed, it seems, to be a companion to iLife, the iPod and the digital hub generally. It will run all those apps, and all the other apps that people will use on it. No design professional is going to buy the iMac. It's not aimed at them, the PowerMac is.
consoles. I have all three major consoles and they are where i play most of my games.

So, the iMac will be perfect for me, and the many other people like me. We can use iLife, we can run general use apps and office suites. We can transfer movies from DV cams and experiment with FC Express. And, at the end of the day, we can play games. Most people are not hardcore gamers. They buy a game, take it out of the box and they play it on the default or automatically set settings. At these low
At the moment I have an Athlon (barton) 3000 based XP system with 1gb of ram and a 9800 Pro 128mb. I built that to play games on (bearing in mind when i built it, it was top spec). However, nowadays, 'computer' gaming is falling by the wayside, giving ground up to the settings, the iMac G5 will be perfectly fine.

This has turned into a long post, and is a bit long winded i think, but my point remains. For the consumer market, this system suits it's purpose very very well.

Yes, it could be better. But people that want more, there is the 1.8 PowerMac.
post #140 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by kcmac
Where are the expo pictures of the iMac?

Here's some from MacNN boards:

http://homepage.mac.com/morgan68/App...toAlbum31.html
post #141 of 441
Well I wasn't too impressed at first, later on thought if was pretty good. I'm now warming up to the fact that the new Imac G5 rocks. Best looking computer i've ever seen.

Stop looking at the numbers, It will be a great experience working/playing with one.

Viktor
post #142 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by scottiB
Here's some from MacNN boards:

http://homepage.mac.com/morgan68/App...toAlbum31.html

Thanks. I had seen that page but didn't scroll down far enough. He has a picture of his car in the middle of the slideshow and I quit there.

The bottom of the screen looks a little odd after getting used to the simple screen of the older version but a great place for stickies, etc.

Looks great.
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post #143 of 441
Sorry it should be iMac.
post #144 of 441
Quote:
And now an iMac that looks like something a PC builder would come up with.

So what PC builder has something that is this elegant?

I want a link please.
post #145 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
These iMacs are a great price, under £1000 inc VAT with a 17" LCD is great, just a pity about no option of a graphics card, but for who it is intended to sell to, this is great, interesting how the FSB speeds are lower than they are in the Powermacs that have the same processors. Guess this is due to heat?

i agree -- the uk pricing is pretty good to my eyes as it breaks the £1000 mark. and going for the superdrive version isn't that much more.

i see an ipod mini moment coming on -- they will sell like hotcakes even though we here at AI have problems with them.
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post #146 of 441
Guys, just shut up already. You're dissapointed for not finding pro features in a normal computer! If you're a serious enough gamer where you need a 128mb graphics card, and you're using a mac, go pick up a ps2, or an xbox. Also, look at the benchmarks, it runs Halo and UT2K4 fine. The prices are pretty good. Consider the fact that there is no 15" screen, so that first option is now gone. Also it's not a choice between $1900 iMac and $2000 powermac, when the powermac requires a screen. So add at least $300 for a crt.
post #147 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by DGNR8
...You have got to be kidding me! This is what the wait was for? This is the best Apple could do?...

People who write posts like this must be talented designers. I'd be hard pressed to dream up something better. A tiny footprint, all-in-one computer & display. One cord to plug in the wall. Done.

For my own use, I wish Apple would make one almost just like it without the display and deduct $200. I'd buy one, but I already have a big display.
post #148 of 441
Didn't read the whole thread yet, but I just ordered one (and I am switcher)!

-1.8 G5 w/17"
-512 MB RAM 1 DIMM (Upgraded)
-160GB HDD (Upgraded)
-Airport Extreme (Upgraded)
-All the other standard jazz

$1,627 w/edu discount.

I think that is pretty good. I was going to go for 20", but I decieded on a 17" plus an 20 GB iPod
post #149 of 441
totally agree brianru, those pisc make me relise that the bezel is perfect as is the whole design. time to get a mop to clean up this puddle of drool.
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post #150 of 441
It's probably worth noting that the machine doesn't contain enough RAM to run many "modern" games. I found UT2003 stuttering on my 512Mb TiBook, it only started to work smoothly when I upgraded to a gig.

I think Apple has to decide what it really wants to do with the whole AIO concept. Is it really a "Buy it, plug it in, and it just works" thing? If so, they need to address the memory issue head on. Because if people do buy it, and find a significant amount of software they run constantly battling the machine's limits, they'll get a poor idea of what Macs are in general.

If, on the other hand, the intention is to produce a machine you regularly upgrade, including on the day you buy it, then the form factor just isn't appropriate for that.

256Mb and a lower-spec default graphics card is fine for PowerMacs, the end user is going to want to customize their's anyway. A higher baseline is needed for the types of machine Apple expects users will not open.
post #151 of 441
Orthello, only thing that doesn't make sense now is that the stand alone 20" LCD is 1000GBP, and the iMac 20" is 1300GBP, the displays are exactly the same - according to the tech specs, so what does this mean? We'll probably see the displays get a price reduction. That or a G5 computer only costs 300 quid...
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post #152 of 441
elegance is simplicity, beauty, and being well suited to specific need, the imac is perfect for consumers and will be more of a hit than the G4.
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post #153 of 441
I've used Macs since 1984 (my brother bought one of the first ones when he was in college -- back when they came with an extensive animated tutorial and System 1.0). While I've had my ups and downs over the years, this is the first time I've gotten a real sense that Apple is writing off its PC business and trying to wind it down neatly.

Back in the early '90s, when Apple first moved to PowerPC, the selling point was: "yes, they're more expensive, but they're much faster than Windows computers because our computers have RISC!" That worked for a while until Intel caught and passed AIM. Then the selling point was: "well, they're more expensive, but they're faster for these discrete (graphics oriented) tasks." That was OK until Avid jumped ship to Windows, Adobe started optimizing Photoshop for Wintel and 3D acceleration became a Windows specialty. Then the selling point was "well, they're more expensive, but they come with this great software and there's nothing like it for Windows and besides which, OS X beats the pants off Windows '95". Then Microsoft came out with XP which honestly isn't bad at all. Now, as far as I can tell, the selling point is: "get it if you want iLife, Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro and besides which, no one writes viruses and worms for our system because it has such a small market share" iTunes and the iPod are available for Windows. Most of the other stuff in OS X has pretty good counterparts in Windows. The fit and finish might not be perfect, but there are folks starting to pay attention to design on the Windows side.

In addition, the specs are "off" for the target market. One of the brilliant points of the original iMac was that out of the box, with no modification or special orders, you got a machine you could plug in to the wall and the internet that would be just about as good as the desktop machines available at that time (albeit less expandable). Now, the non-BTO machines are crippled (at least on RAM. The HD is probably OK) -- does Apple expect the average purchaser in a store to know that the machine they just bought has unacceptable performance because Apple messed up the specs and the consumer should have known to upgrade the RAM?

I just don't get the sense that Apple's PC sales are high enough to support an R&D operation sufficient to keep it on the cutting edge. I was nervous when they split iPod out into a separate division and made Joswiak head of it (instead of computer hardware), but I thought they might have sufficient depth of talent in reserve that the PC side of things would thrive once they overcame the processor shortfall. Now I'm not so sure. These machines seem targeted at the "replacement" crowd among Apple's increasingly small desktop market. There's nothing that I see Apple marketing that would build market share back to the 10% level, which means that the lion's share of resources will always be focused on the Windows side of the fence. Even if Apple is 8 times as efficient at development as anyone else, that means that there's an edge on the Windows side that will compound until Apple is in the dust.

I'm very disappointed. I'll probably encourage my wife's parents to get one of these (their old iMac is getting long in the tooth and I don't want to force them to learn XP), and our replacement computer will probably be a PowerMac, but I seriously doubt that our computer after that will be a Mac.
post #154 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by slu
(and I am switcher)!

I have a friend who's a switcher to, during the day he's Charlie and at night she's Charleene.
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post #155 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by peharri
It's probably worth noting that the machine doesn't contain enough RAM to run many "modern" games. I found UT2003 stuttering on my 512Mb TiBook, it only started to work smoothly when I upgraded to a gig.

My G5 has run UT2004 on the highest settings with only 512MBs installed. With the experience I had with my iBook, I came to believe 512MBs was insufficient for multiple logins and demanding gaming, but it really is adequate as long as you have a faster Mac.

Apple should have provided a higher end GPU for the 20" model, but heat and/or size could well be a limiting factor.
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post #156 of 441
On the grand unveiling, I thought it looked a bit cack. But after looking at the camera photos and the VR, I can appreciate how wonderful it looks.
post #157 of 441
Apple's website photos are always heavily doctored and don't show the "depth" or detail of the enclosurers. We already know that when we see any of the products in-person. They always look nicer and invite one to touch them! Here are some more "real" photos on site:

http://www.macitynet.it/immagini/vis...51/index.shtml
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post #158 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
Orthello, only thing that doesn't make sense now is that the stand alone 20" LCD is 1000GBP, and the iMac 20" is 1300GBP, the displays are exactly the same - according to the tech specs, so what does this mean? We'll probably see the displays get a price reduction. That or a G5 computer only costs 300 quid...

Well, as far as I can tell, the specs are not the same! According to the tech specs on apple.com the new iMac has lower brightness and contrast ratios than the cinema display. The same as the older cinema display actually!
post #159 of 441
I like it, I think it looks fantastic in the expo pictures.

I'm a year out from getting a new comp, but I look forward to when that moment arrives.

The superdrive speed is unfortunate, but as has been said it's probably a laptop superdrive due to design constraints.
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post #160 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by trajik78
Games...blah...video card...blah, blah...Doom...blah, blah, blah.

What percentage of the entire computer buying public are gamers? I would guess a very small percentage buy a computer because it can run the latest game. People buy computers to download pictures from their digital camera so that they can email those digital photographs to grandma and grandpa who will then print them out and hang them on the 'frige. The latest greatest video card is not required for any of these tasks. Anyways, buy an xbox, playstation, or a gamecube if you want to play games.
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