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Apple unveils the new iMac G5 - Page 6

post #201 of 441
Nice breakdown, THT.

Quote:
Originally posted by THT

And of course, Apple can't just make everyone happy by simply offering build-to-order graphics and CPU options. That and a cheap headless machine would make everyone so much happier.

Apple always chintzes on BTO when they first release a product, because the mere option of BTO makes a model more expensive to manufacture. Once the kinks are out and the line is running smoothly, they have the option of doing BTO. If they made a couple of choices right, it should be easier on this machine than on any prior iMac, simply because once you pop the back off, the whole machine is right there.

If the new iMac uses the PowerBook's GPU daughtercard, they could offer BTO GPUs just as they do in the PowerBooks. Nothing about this design intrinsically prohibits that. We'll have to wait until some enterprising Japanese person takes one apart. Even if this model doesn't have the daughtercard, it could appear in an update.

As for the "cheap headless box," I have to say that "everyone" does not include me. A cheap headless box is a toy for some geeks (not all geeks, or I'd want one). It's not a consumer product.
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post #202 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Banana Nut Bread I spend a great deal of money on my computer, being what the marketing people call an "enthusiast", so the price point of a Mac isn't my issue.
...
I like to tinker a little, upgrade RAM, upgrade video card, etc as I go along, and I like to squeeze as much performance out as I can, but in a small form factor.
...
The PowerMac line is just too massive for me.
...
Until I can find an Apple product that gives me the flexibility I need in a form factor I can stand, I'm stuck in the PC world, wishing I could play in the Mac world [/B]

Sounds like you want a HIGH-end mini-headless. Don't hold your breath. If anything, Apple needs a LOW-end mini-headless to create an entry cost even lower than the eMac.

Suggestion: put the PowerMac on the floor

Anyway, the G5 iMacs's not for a DIY'er, but it's a great design at the right price. They'll sell a ton. The removable foot opens up tons of possibilities.
post #203 of 441
I must say this new aesthetic (first featured on the Cinema displays) looks like something a PC manufacturer would come up with. Sure it's an Apple and looks it but the overall design and functionality doesn't look like something Jonathan Ive would come up with. Did I hear correctly that he was not involved much with this project if at all? The port placement is ill conceived and something I would expect to see on a Dell... a mess of cables dangling in mid air and rendering the wall mount option useless. The combination of a notebook drive and vertical orientation will hold speeds back. None of this seems like it was really thought through and that is not like Apple. Notice there was no promotional video this time around? It's almost as if this was the result of some abandoned PowerBook project adapted into a desktop product rather than a ground-up redesign as a new iMac. Now we know why a laptop manufacturer is producing these.

I find it very odd that this iMac embodies everything that Steve Jobs himself said would be a mistake to do when designing the previous model.

I have emailed the photos and specs to several people this morning in the 30 to 60 age group (both Mac and PC users) and none were all that thrilled with it. Many thought the drive placement was strange, the port placement was just plain terrible (the lack of inputs on the front was mentioned by all) and that the depth and weight were just not important factors to them. One good thing was the lack of complaints about pricing. It seems this may be the one thing Apple did right. I think these have the best price to performance ratio of any Apple product and they all seem to agree.

So to sum up:

Poor design.
Great price to performance ratio.
I will be getting a PowerBook.
I'm tired.
post #204 of 441
Could someone with more time than me post a comparison the new iMac to the Sony VAIO® V310P
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post #205 of 441
They look like neat units and I look forward to seeing them in peson, but I have to agree with those who wanted more RAM. The top end model should be 512 MB and a 128 MP video card would have been nice. Still. I might get one on the next rev if I can convince the wife.
post #206 of 441
I'm not too worried about the lack of FW800. So far, I haven't seen many devices that are supporting this. The ones that I do see are squarely aimed at a pro-audience. IMO, it is a good cost-savings move to leave FW800 out in this initial release.
post #207 of 441
Count me in a someone who isn't interested in a cheap headless Mac.

C'mon, why would I want to go searching for a monitor that looks good enough to match Apples iMacs? You people complain about the price of an iMac, but the price of their monitors!

Count me in as someone who wants a good looking machine that can live in a living room environment, that is quiet (can't stress how important that is, to ME), and that works.
post #208 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Looks-wise, I think they did a great job. It does conjure the iPod in more ways than one. It's the perfect hub for your Digital Spoke! It's clean, friendly, it doesn't have the awkward proportion between the screen and the body that the 15" iMac did, and (with the wireless kb and mouse) it only has one cord. As my boss said of that last feature, it's about damn time.

I agree. I don't think most people realize how inconvenient current computer designs are. It seems that most people are oblivious to the hassle, having been conditioned into what 'computing' involves. They've come to expect boxes and wires everywhere.

One cord!

Imagine, an articulated arm suspending the iMac above your desk, swining any which way for different uses and audiences. Wifi net connection, wifi printer sharing, wifi audio output, bluetooth keyboard, bluetooth mouse...

It could have a single power cord inside the articulated arm.

I predict that a few years down the road, people will laugh at how primitive and cumbersome most computers are today. Once liberated by such designs it will be hard for people to go back to a world where computers occupy their entire desk and wires dangling everywhere.
post #209 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by fahlman
Could someone with more time than me post a comparison the new iMac to the Sony VAIO® V310P

I already did in another thread:

The Vaio has:

15" screen
Integrated SIS graphics with 32MB shared memory
2.8GHz P4
512MB DDR SDRAM
Combo drive

All starting at $1499!
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post #210 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Playmaker
I couldent agree more, but what do you think about the heat issue? I still think this video card is on the low end of what it almost needed to be a consumer level machine these days. I feel like they would have spent the additional $8-10 per machine to put in a better GPU if there wasnt something else hindering the process.


Well, if it was heat related they could of used an ATI 9700 mobile chip. I still think its budget related, Apples development team was given a max price tag and they ran with it. We will never know the full story on Apples decision to use the 5200 but I do know this the iMac update will have a better video card and thats when Ill buy.
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post #211 of 441
THT. Nice post.

I would be interested in why you wouldn't recommend the high end. That is what I am getting ready to order mainly because the screen appears to have better specs than the 17". And I keep my machines for awhile. (Still have the iMac DVSE 400).

I am going to order it with the base RAM at 256. Buying 1GB for $148 (vs. $225 on Apple store) at Memory to Go.

http://www.memorytogo.com/COMPONEX/i...%2D1GB&eq=&Tp=

PC 3200 is listed on the Apple store and I called Memory to Go who says it is the same thing.

Is it?

Thanks.
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post #212 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
[/b].As for the "cheap headless box," I have to say that "everyone" does not include me. A cheap headless box is a toy for some geeks (not all geeks, or I'd want one). It's not a consumer product. [/B]

Consumers have spoken and said quite clearly that an inexpensive headless box is exactly what they want. This iMac3 is what's not a consumer product, it's a cheap comp married to an expensive LCD for those who are willing to throw out a perfectly good display in 2-4 years.

I do not make money off my Mac and yet as a consumer I have upgraded the past 4 Macs I've owned. (memory, video card, hard drives, cdrom drives, and in the case of the Performa 6400 it got a new cpu and mobo, now a 6500)
Course I suppose they put out upgrades because no one buys them. And don't give me that lame only gamers upgrade spiel. If that were the case there would be a lot fewer choices in upgrades.

Here's to another few years of Apple wondering why this iMac isn't doing as well as they'd expected.
post #213 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636


So to sum up:

Poor design.
Great price to performance ratio.
I will be getting a PowerBook.
I'm tired.

On that note, I wish everyone a pleasent Macnight and I am out of here.
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post #214 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by tak1108
I predict that at least Half of AI will be disapointed.


I was right!!!!! Dead on!!!! I could not have predicted the new iMac better!!!!!!!

I too am disappointed, as This is not a computer for me. I had hoped they would get it down to $999.

I mean, if they charge $699 for the 17" lcd. $1299 - $699 is $600 Where is that computer. Just give me the computer without the display. That's all I want.

Glad to see they have a monitor for less than $1299. Oh wait they don't.

Although I am glad they brought the price down on the 2 higher priced ones.
post #215 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Bancho
Oh, so it's not ok to compare Apple to an expensively priced PC but it's fine to pit them against homebuilt or bargain basement ones?

I just find that Sony always charges too much as well as Apple does. I'm not talking about bargain companies...just the likes of Dell, HP and Gateway.
post #216 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Bancho
I already did in another thread:

The Vaio has:

15" screen
Integrated SIS graphics with 32MB shared memory
2.8GHz P4
512MB DDR SDRAM
Combo drive

All starting at $1499!

I'd say the mid-range iMac G5 pretty well cleans the floor with that thing, spec-wise. The Sony has 40 GB more HD space, and 256 more MB RAM, but "integrated" graphics and a combo drive? Plus, you'd have to suffer through Windows. And I'm sure that new Viao® Creation© Suite is Real Good.

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post #217 of 441
At first glance, i thought OMG. By the time I'd read the iMac mini site, I was seriously thinking about ordering on the spot. Yeah the Graphics are weak, Yeah I wanted 2.0ghz, but this is a seriously neat piece of engineering, and the price in the UK is simply unbelievably good. It is the perfect computer for anyone in the midrange catagory, non gamer.

I hope it sells by the millions.
post #218 of 441
am i seeing things correctly that the mouse and keyboard are wireless? that is going to be such a selling point in the retail market! people simply hate wires..
post #219 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by tak1108
I was right!!!!! Dead on!!!! I could not have predicted the new iMac better!!!!!!!

Way to go nostradamus, here's a cookie.
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post #220 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by trajik78
I just find that Sony always charges too much as well as Apple does. I'm not talking about bargain companies...just the likes of Dell, HP and Gateway.

But to be fair you need to see what else the iMac compete's against and that includes the "overpriced" ones as well. You can't just slam Apple based on the fact that you can get cheap PCs.

I just popped over to HP's site and configured a a650y machine very similar to the Dell in my earlier post and it comes to $1358 with rebates.

Spec for spec these new iMacs are competitive with quality PCs. The price is certainly not an issue.
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post #221 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by fahlman
What percentage of the entire computer buying public are gamers?

If you follow the statistics, more and more of the population are. Especially the lucrative 20-30 something male audience. Wired ran a story recently about falling TV viewership, and companies are moving toward advertising in games to get eyeballs back.

Quote:

I would guess a very small percentage buy a computer because it can run the latest game.

But people don't buy computers because it can't run the latest games full speed - and will not be able to run any future latest games decently. This is where the current iMac falls short. Sure, it can play last year's games fine, and probably this year's games ok. But next year and the year after that games will be pushing new boundaries and iMac owners will watch their GPU fall further behind even though their CPU, bus, memory, etc. will still be up to the task.

Quote:

People buy computers to download pictures from their digital camera so that they can email those digital photographs to grandma and grandpa who will then print them out and hang them on the 'frige. The latest greatest video card is not required for any of these tasks. Anyways, buy an xbox, playstation, or a gamecube if you want to play games.

That is one target market. Another is the junior/senior high school aged students who want/need a machine to do schoolwork on - and oh, by the way play GAMES. When Johnny or Jane are telling their parents which computer to buy, they're going to say, "Oh, don't buy that one, it's not upgradeable. We'll have to buy a new one in two years." And as a smart parent, I would take future-proofness into account when buying a machine for a child just reaching the age of getting their own computer.

Certainly there is a large chunk of Apple's target market who don't care about such things and couldn't spell GPU with a three key keyboard. But that just means Apple's targeting ignorant people, and alienating the informed consumers.

Yes, the current iMac is a fine machine - today. Yes, Apple will sell them as fast as they can make them. But when OS X 10.4 comes out with all those cool 3D effects I suspect people are going to really start whining about how inadequate the 5200 GPU is. Sure, Apple may have cooler G5s by then and have iMacs with faster GPUs, but that will just make current iMac buyers mad.

Sorry, this turned into kind of a long rant. Apple's been in the biz a long time. They'll make money on the new machines.

- Jasen.
post #222 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Heidi123
am i seeing things correctly that the mouse and keyboard are wireless? that is going to be such a selling point in the retail market! people simply hate wires..

No, Apple just shows the bluetooth keyboard as a "your's can look like this to". The wireless solution will set you back a $100.
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post #223 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by chris v
I'd say the mid-range iMac G5 pretty well cleans the floor with that thing, spec-wise. The Sony has 40 GB more HD space, and 256 more MB RAM, but "integrated" graphics and a combo drive? Plus, you'd have to suffer through Windows. And I'm sure that new Viao® Creation© Suite is Real Good.

Don't forget the 15" screen
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post #224 of 441
Damn its ugly.

Why did they make the bottom edge so thick? surely they could have balanced it out better.
post #225 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by talksense101
Was the Fx5200 Ultra in the old iMac also at AGP 8X? The performance gains of this card in the new iMac as claimed by Apple are impressive.

I believe it was 4X on the G4 iMacs.
post #226 of 441
Well, the complainers wasted no time in jumping on this article.

This is a fine machine for education and home users. It is also a good corporate desktop. Pricing is not bad, either, and the G5 will give very good performance with its higher-speed bus and better RAM.

Gamers? Gamers are a small and declining market. (edit: I mean non-console gamers. Console games are selling well.) Many computer users like casual gaming, but few current games are poorly designed for that. For example, I can't take a five-minute break at work and play Halo. Doom3? Pfui. Who could possibly care about yet another FPS?
post #227 of 441
Quote:
Consumers have spoken and said quite clearly that an inexpensive headless box is exactly what they want. This iMac3 is what's not a consumer product, it's a cheap comp married to an expensive LCD for those who are willing to throw out a perfectly good display in 2-4 years

No they haven't. This is your dream. Consumers haven't spoken about anything. The last best selling computer(original iMac) wasn't headless. I love they way some of you make stuff up to support your wishes.

Quote:
Why did they make the bottom edge so thick? surely they could have balanced it out better

Because the motherboard has to have a certain amount of clearance. Plus you have an internal Powersupply which is amazing. All this in 18.5 lbs for a 17". Color me impressed.
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post #228 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by etai_s15
Damn its ugly.

Why did they make the bottom edge so thick? surely they could have balanced it out better.

Actually Ive heard that the original concept was only one inch thick. However they had to use 2 poles with weights attached. They were connected on both sides of the iMac to achieve perfect balance. This design of course proved to be a hazard when an Apple employee last his eye. Hence the current version, the ugly thick one.
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post #229 of 441
Lovely design. Got a bit worried when I heard the guts would be put into the display, but it looks great. Thinking how thin a powerbook is i suppose there shouldn't really have been any doubts.

For those moaning about Doom 3 (which will be playable anyway) may I suggest buying a PS2, GC and Xbox. You could pick up all three for under $300.

Won't be getting one though as my 17"iMac2 still runs just fine with 768mb RAM.

iMac4? Well that's a different story.

EDIT: Fug it, with a 250 HD and 2Gig of RAM gimme one now.
post #230 of 441
Come on people, try and use your brains a little bit here. We are talking about a thin all-in-one. NO ONE ANYWHERE HAS EVER CONSIDERED AN ALL-IN-ONE AS THE ULTIMATE GAMING COMPUTER. So, this computer should be compaired to other all-in-ones, not jumbojet sized Dells. Interestingly enough, when compaired to a Dell, the price is almost the same.

To add to the Sony comparison (where the Apple blew the Sony away in price and performance) I bring us to the Gateway AIO's.

Lets see for 1100 from Gateway you can get:
2.6 CELERON (WOO FEEL THE GAMING SPEED OF THE PC WORLD)
256 Megs of 333MHz DDR SDRAM (NOT 400MHz)
40 Gig HD 5400 Not Serial ATA)
15 inch LCD (Not 17 Wide)
CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive (Not DVD Burning)
No 5.1 sound
No Firewire
Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 with 64MB shared memory buffer (NO DEDICATED GRAPHICS MEMORY)
No VGA out
THE THING WEIGHS 20 LB AND IS UGLY AS HELL

Is there even a comparison?

I will agree that perhaps Apple is making a mistake by not pushing a cheap non-AIO box, but I will argue that this is perhaps the best AIO on the market. Its cheap, its fast, and it does so much more than other AOI's.
post #231 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
My "wife's" old eMac* is very noisy, even noiser than other eMacs that came out later. Since her eMac shares home office space with my own Mac, replacing it for Christmas would be a bit of a gift to myself as well.

*The emac I mentioned before, now remembering it was only two years ago that I paid nearly the same $1300 that buys new G5 iMac for it. $1300 for a 700 MHz G4/40GB/15" CRT then, vs. a 1.6 GHz G5/80GB/17" widescreen LCD now!

Much nicer looking and less than half the weight isn't a bad bonus either.

I just ordered one (Christmas in advance) : I expect that I did not make a mistake (I didn't checked the noise : if it's noisy my wife will kill me )
post #232 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by fahlman
What percentage of the entire computer buying public are gamers? I would guess a very small percentage buy a computer because it can run the latest game. People buy computers to download pictures from their digital camera so that they can email those digital photographs to grandma and grandpa who will then print them out and hang them on the 'frige. The latest greatest video card is not required for any of these tasks. Anyways, buy an xbox, playstation, or a gamecube if you want to play games.

I agree, and I also disagree with people saying the card will totally suck for games, my 1ghz Imac plays wolfenstein fine with all details at max.. sure, I dont get 100fps, but all this video card bs is for fps bragging rights and not much more. even most pc users dont really care about that, its only the hardcore gamers(you know the ones, new vid card, motherboard,ect every few months or less... the machine is fine(just needs more ram)
post #233 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
This looks great, it is everything that I have wanted to see, G5, faster bus, and one proc with monitor for a ood price.

My only question, Of all of this can be put into a small encloseure, why did we not see a pwr book eith the same innards, knock out the pwr supply put a laptop backlight on the display and toss in a KB+trackpad and vwala! where is it?

Battery life?
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post #234 of 441
Also to note:

Am I the only one that thinks that Apple just has a load of the Nvidia 64 meg cards sitting around that they want to get rid of?

Maybe in a month or two they will upgrade the GPU. They must upgrade something as the Christmas season starts to roll around the corner.

I also have the same feelings about the processor. They will deplete the little stock of 1.6's they have and introduce higher speed iMac's as the processors become available. If we would stop buying powermacs, they would go ahead and put the faster processors in this box.


In most ways, it seems Apple is giving us as much as they can. Some things, like processors, can't be faster till Apple can get more of them.
post #235 of 441
I don't think it has the revolutionary appeal of the original iMac, which *totally stood out* due to it's strange, bubbly shape and bright colour.

It seems to be a very sleek design, but I'm not sure if the world at large will see and take notice like they took notice of the original iMac.

I can complain about specs vs. price all I want; to my mind 512MB RAM would have been a nice touch, hard drive is less of a concern to me. Either a better or an upgradeable graphics card would have been nice, but not a particularly realistic wish given apple's history. I really would like to see them come up with some sort of revolutionarily powerful integrated graphics solution, but who knows what we'll be seeing.

Here's hoping that lots of people with more money than I have want to buy one- I need apple to survive until I'm rich
post #236 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I just ordered one (Christmas in advance) : I expect that I did not make a mistake (I didn't checked the noise : if it's noisy my wife will kill me )

No worries, I've been reading some of the Forum Français de Apple. Apparently attendees from the Expo have reported that the iMac is extremely quite. However, they are on a convention floor with hundreds of bystanders waiting for their go at the new toy.
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post #237 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Bancho
But to be fair you need to see what else the iMac compete's against and that includes the "overpriced" ones as well. You can't just slam Apple based on the fact that you can get cheap PCs.

I just popped over to HP's site and configured a a650y machine very similar to the Dell in my earlier post and it comes to $1358 with rebates.

Spec for spec these new iMacs are competitive with quality PCs. The price is certainly not an issue.

I just love the "similarly configured" machine arguments. yeah, great, they're evenly priced at a similar configuration. Shouldn't someone point out that while EVERY OTHER PC manufacturer that you're comparing it to allows you to really change the configuration. I went to Dell's site to configure the 4600, and a couple things I noticed:
- Its like $75 less to get the RAM from 256 to 1GB. 4 DIMM slots total.
- Its $60 less to get the HDrive to 250GB, plus there's room for a second drive.
- I can get a floppy drive (floppies rule!)
- Choice of CD/DVD drives, including getting two separate drives
- Choice of displays, from LCD to CRT, at a wide range of sizes, quality, price
- choice of video card (hey, and you can change it later!)
- choice of sound card (hey, and you can change it later!)
- choice of mouse and keyboard that fits you, not what they force you to have (what, you want two buttons, go buy one yourself, you losers!)

Apple let's you change the memory and harddrive, and allows you to add Bluetooth (don't forget that's required if you want a wireless keyboard/mouse) and airport. Wow, the customization options!

[Oh, and the dell will get to you within a week. Who knows when Apple will ship the first iMac, let alone yours.]

Yeah, so if you spec up the dell to meet the iMac's specs, they cost the same, but the problem is, you HAVE to take the iMacs specs. If I have no desire for DVD writing, I can forgo the drive (or, if I want a DVD-R drive, but hate their slowness for CD reading, I can get two drives!). You have a myriad of options with the PC side of things. With Apple, you take what they give you.
post #238 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer

Speaking of gamers, you all are right. There's no market for games on computers. No one buys computers to play games, and no one buys games. In fact, that's why when you go to Best Buy or CompUSA, you're lucky if you see a couple of shelves for games. [Yes, and for you mentally challenged, I was being sarcastic. The problem you all don't understand is that while not everyone plays games, the gamer market is one Apple should be going after, as they're the geeks who'll spend $3000 on a new computer, or $500 on a new graphics card. Why shouldn't apple want to go after that market? And shouldn't people ask "Why aren't they?"]


They'll spend $3000 on a new computer and $500 on a new graphics card? And Apple's not going after them?? Wait a second, it's coming to me. What is that thing? That big aluminum box? Oh, I can't remember...

That's it! The Power Mac G5!

Listen, if this is the kind of user you are, you're looking at the wrong computer if you're looking at the iMac. Most people want to play games on consoles. If you're willing to shell out $3000 or more just to build a computer to play games, then get a Power Mac G5. Personally, I've never understood why you would spend all this money assembling a gaming computer rather than just buying an X Box for a couple hundred bucks.
post #239 of 441
Once again your compairing a Jumbo Jet to a 2 in thick computer AIO. COMPAIRE AIO's, or complain that Apple doesn't have a cheap headless box on the market, but compairing headless boxes to AIO's is lame. Apples and oranges people.
post #240 of 441
Now i'm gonna be the asshole and say the new imac looks like doggy poo .The thing looks like a supersized iPod . I like the current iMac G4 much more and thank god i got one in time .
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Its ALIVE , its ALIIIIIVE !!!!!!
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