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Garrison Keillor on the new Republicans

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
Garrison Keillor is always right on it, and this piece nails it.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/979

extracted:
Quote:
.........The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrongs moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newts evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks were deaf, dumb and dangerous........

This essay is spot on, describes the current political climate with laserlike precision. What the hell has happened to the Republican Party? "Government of Enron and by Halliburton and for the Southern Baptists is not the same as what Lincoln spoke of."

Commentary and thoughts?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #2 of 34
This letter is the best response:
Quote:

A POISON TREE
William Blake

I was angry with my friend:
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I watered it in fears
Night and morning with my tears,
And I sunned it with smiles
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright,
And my foe beheld it shine,
And he knew that it was mine, -

And into my garden stole
When the night had veiled the pole;
In the morning, glad, I see
My foe outstretched beneath the tree.


Alright, time to clue you slow-learning Yankees in._ Much like the French, we drink the good stuff and export the crap._ Hell yeah, everything Bush touches turns to shit- why the Hell do you think we sent him to Washington?_ Spares Texas and punishes the Yankee- all in one stroke._ So you were foolish enough to swallow the Stinkbait and now the poisons numbing your extremities?
Die.

We said it at Appomattox, well say it again- Sir, you will never understand the depth of Southern Rancour.

God Damn the Union!
God Damn by Any Means!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #3 of 34
I remember I used to hate being forced to listen to prairie home companion saturday nights. Great show though. I like the ones with Larryyy...and Guy Noire, Private Eye. Very potent commentary just like Capitol Steps. Jeez thank goodness for NPR. Clear Channel finally killed Dartmouth college's radio station. It's got everything in my town now beside the oldies station and a classic rock station. And I'm out in the netherlands of Vermont.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #4 of 34
Quote:
faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience



There's more hate there than I want to comment on directly.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #5 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
There's more hate there than I want to comment on directly.

I know and he sums that hatred up in such a pithy prose, describing it all so well.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #6 of 34
I speak as a Canadian, neither donkey nor elephant.

That's more bigotry in one paragraph than I've heard any Republican spout all week.

What's the matter with Democrats that forces them to make such hateful comments? It was one thing when AO was mile upon mile of Bush-bashing, but now the Democrats are lobbying insults at...anyone who disagrees with them?

It's a sign of intellectual bankruptcy couched in ever-too-clever rhetoric.
Somebody hand the American Left a map. They can't seem to find the high road.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I speak as a Canadian, neither donkey nor elephant.

That's more bigotry in one paragraph than I've heard any Republican spout all week.

What's the matter with Democrats that forces them to make such hateful comments? It was one thing when AO was mile upon mile of Bush-bashing, but now the Democrats are lobbying insults at...anyone who disagrees with them?

It's a sign of intellectual bankruptcy couched in ever-too-clever rhetoric.
Somebody hand the American Left a map. They can't seem to find the high road.

When the high road is a garaunteed plumet to your death, why would you take it?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #8 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I speak as a Canadian, neither donkey nor elephant.

That's more bigotry in one paragraph than I've heard any Republican spout all week.

What's the matter with Democrats that forces them to make such hateful comments? It was one thing when AO was mile upon mile of Bush-bashing, but now the Democrats are lobbying insults at...anyone who disagrees with them?

It's a sign of intellectual bankruptcy couched in ever-too-clever rhetoric.
Somebody hand the American Left a map. They can't seem to find the high road.

You're a liar . . . pretend to be oh so unbiased . . . that paragraph is humorous and is in no stretch of the imagination nearly as BAD even as the years upon years of slander and sleaze and hatred that has been coming out of the Right media machine: the Limbaughs, Hannity etc etc etc.

What the hell is wrong with this:
'Faith based economists' --? there are economics behind Bush's faith based agenda that would turn the head of any thinking individual

"fundamentalist bullies with bibles" -- are you telling me that these people don't exist!?!? That it is only the Muslims Fundamentalists who are pigs with a religion?
You know what, I am sick of this country sinking down into a lobotomized fundamentalism . . . wake up!! You don't have to throw out thought and critical reasoning in order to be religious . . . why are so many Fundies arrogant idiots who want to control all of our lives with simplistic and, yes, simple minded world views?

"Christians of Conveinience" --Oh now everybody is and has always been a born again deeply committed Christian?! We have these Senetors, such as the one lately who had to resign for actually loving his seedy late-night male-male sodomy- who pretended to be a right-wing, values first, anti-gay marriage, good old Christian fundy . . . that is what I would call using a position for the convienience of the power-base it affords

So, None of those statements are even wrong descriptions of realities that some of us don't like facing, much less are they merely hateful sneers.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
What the hell is wrong with this:
'Faith based economists' --? there are economics behind Bush's faith based agenda that would turn the head of any thinking individual

this is patently untrue---just rehtoric for those who do not know that Bush's economics consist of the prevailing theories being taught in the colleges today. (if the textbooks are any indication)

Quote:
"fundamentalist bullies with bibles" -- are you telling me that these people don't exist!?!? .....pigs with a religion......lobotomized fundamentalism . . .Fundies...arrogant idiots who want to control all of our lives


Main Entry: big·ot·ry Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: bigtr, -ri
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -es
Etymology: French bigoterie, from Middle French, from bigot + -erie -ery
: state of mind of a bigot : obstinate and unreasoning attachment to one's own belief and opinions with intolerance of beliefs opposed to them; also : behavior or beliefs ensuing from such a condition


I think the bad guys exist in each camp, and I understand the critisisms of those bad guys---I just can't wrap my head around this kind of hatred---equating the whole of the right with ultimate evil.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
this is patently untrue---just rehtoric for those who do not know that Bush's economics consist of the prevailing theories being taught in the colleges today. (if the textbooks are any indication)




Main Entry: big·ot·ry Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: bigtr, -ri
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -es
Etymology: French bigoterie, from Middle French, from bigot + -erie -ery
: state of mind of a bigot : obstinate and unreasoning attachment to one's own belief and opinions with intolerance of beliefs opposed to them; also : behavior or beliefs ensuing from such a condition


I think the bad guys exist in each camp, and I understand the critisisms of those bad guys---I just can't wrap my head around this kind of hatred---equating the whole of the right with ultimate evil.

Oh, STFU already.

The republicans have been smearing everybody who isn't them as traitors, terrorists, pussies, godless hell bound satanists and the ultimate incarnate of evil for quite a while now.

And not in the odd essay by a satirist, but as a matter of policy, and over and over again, and with a small army of shills.

it's so goddamn tiresome to have to keep hearing from the apologists for the radically brutal right that every time somebody on the left says, "these guys are creeps" that it represents some kind of breathtaking descent into "hatefulness".

Shameless isn't enough any more. It's sociopathology as politics.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I just can't wrap my head around this kind of hatred---equating the whole of the right with ultimate evil.



I don't know whether hard leftists use biblical language to describe the world in the first place.

Ok, I'm lying.

They don't.

So they certainly don't view the world in black and white terms like "absolute good and evil." That's your problem. You're trying to attach your idea of Hell to the way the left thinks of the right. Sorry, but it just doesn't work like that.
post #12 of 34
What ever happened to moderate level-headed discussion?

Is everything a football game with two teams and the "other" team is "scum, trash, evil"??

I mean I sometimes wonder if you all are not 13 years old or younger.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #13 of 34
I think this belies the centrality of idividualism, where all involved (culturally) believe they are separate---only understood in terms of themselves.

Unfortunatly, when the self needs to use the hate speech of a Keillor, we are going to have a hard time discussing anything. His language in that article is really beneath him---the only thing it's good for is inspiring more hatred.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
the "other" team is "scum, trash, evil"??

Basically.
post #15 of 34
From the Tulsa Times:

Quote:
Following up from a debate on Monday where Tom Coburn called this race, as the battle of good versus evil, Patrick Davis, Political Director for the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee (NRSC), echoed those comments today speaking to a breakfast of Oklahoma delegates at the National Republican Convention saying, we also view this race as good versus evil.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
You're a liar . . . pretend to be oh so unbiased . . .

I never claimed to be unbiased. I just wanted it on the record that I'm on the outside looking in.

And what I see is prominent members of the American Left throwing insults at everyone who has the gall to disagree with them.

So the Left can scream about "fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians"

And then complain when the Fox News crew demeaningly refer to you as "commies and wackos."

There's a place for rhetoric in campaigns. But "spin" refers to changing perceptions on those who disagree with you. It doesn't mean "throw the whole country into a spin cycle."

Let's debate the issues instead of starting threads that shower insults on the other team.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I never claimed to be unbiased. I just wanted it on the record that I'm on the outside looking in.

And what I see is prominent members of the American Left throwing insults at everyone who has the gall to disagree with them.

So the Left can scream about "fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians"

And then complain when the Fox News crew demeaningly refer to you as "commies and wackos."

There's a place for rhetoric in campaigns. But "spin" refers to changing perceptions on those who disagree with you. It doesn't mean "throw the whole country into a spin cycle."

Let's debate the issues instead of starting threads that shower insults on the other team.

Fine.

So let's not grossly mischaracterize the general tone of this election.

Last night at the convention Zell Miller, in his keynote speech, basically called the Kerry and the dems traitors. He appeared to be so enraged that his head might have exploded.

That would be the keynote of the Republican national convention. Not an essay by a humorist.

Here's the pre-convention Democratic web site:


And the Republican:


Web sites of the respective parties. Not an essay by a humorist.

So STFU.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #18 of 34
Oh, yeah, I forgot that the fucking republican Speaker of the House of Representitives has taken to insinuating that George Seros, he the funder of various Democratic entities, might get his money from drug cartels. .

His evidence? Oh, he doesn't have any. He's just sayin'...

The. Speaker. Of. The. House. Trading in almost unbelievable casual slander that would shame a drunk at a bar.

Don't amy of you apologists get uneasy that the current incarnation of the Republican party is dragging the country so far into the mud that we might never see the light of day again?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #19 of 34
The face of christian charity:


They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #20 of 34
That's the clearest sign yet that you don't know what you're talking about.

Cheney and the Christian Right don't see eye to eye on a great many things.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #21 of 34
Well, I'm looking in from the outside too, and what I can see is kinda shocking. What we'll call 'the right' has such a grip on the American body politic that the Democrats daren't even campaign on policy while people can seriously imply John Kerry an 'extreme liberal' and Democrats 'traitors'.

What on earth is going on? In every other free, democratic country in the world, the Democrats would be a centre-right party. I'm sure there are plenty of über-liberal people in the Democratic Party but that doesn't change the fact that anywhere in Europe, Africa or Asia, the Democrats would sit on the centre-right. But in America, there's a concerted effort to have us believe that the Democrats are... almost dangerous.

I can't believe that American politics have ever been so vicious. I can't even call it 'polarised', since the Democrats don't even sit on a pole. It's not good for discussion or the building of an inclusive consensus and it looks very ugly indeed. I seriously hope it's not permanent.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Fine.

So let's not grossly mischaracterize the general tone of this election.

Last night at the convention Zell Miller, in his keynote speech, basically called the Kerry and the dems traitors. He appeared to be so enraged that his head might have exploded.

That would be the keynote of the Republican national convention. Not an essay by a humorist.

Here's the pre-convention Democratic web site:


And the Republican:


Web sites of the respective parties. Not an essay by a humorist.

So STFU.

DING! DING! DING! You got it right.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #23 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Cheney and the Christian Right don't see eye to eye on a great many things. [/B]

On the surface. If Cheney didn't have a gay daughter, you can bet the farm that he wouldn't have broken ranks with the Republican Party line on gay rights, as he did the other day. Yes, its conjecture for sure, but what the hell...its obvious.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #24 of 34
AFAIK, Cheney's always identified with the neo-conservative wing of the party, not the social-conservatives.

Two entirely different groups of people.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #25 of 34
Yeah, one group uses the other one like a puppet . . . the one group is the 'Christians of Convenience' while the other is the 'Bullies with bibles' that tell us how we should live.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
That's the clearest sign yet that you don't know what you're talking about.

Cheney and the Christian Right don't see eye to eye on a great many things.

So? He's the vice-president selected by god-boy hisself, applauded by the party of God, and sent to do his master's bidding as a snarling pit-bull.

The republican party can't wrap itself in the bible and then declare its agents to be secular independents.

Your either for good or evil. The republican party has made that very, very clear.

Thus, Cheney is ostensibly an agent of the good, which in republican terms means Christian. Doesn't matter if he personally is a believer, he is, perforce, the face of same.

By the way, since my previous post was "the clearest sign yet" that I don't know what I'm talking about, what was the previous sign?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Yeah, one group uses the other one like a puppet . . . the one group is the 'Christians of Convenience' while the other is the 'Bullies with bibles' that tell us how we should live.

No, they simply co-exist under the same tent. The Dems should try making those who advocate for the unborn feel comfortable in their party. It would blunt the Republican lead in attracting churchgoers.

There are a lot of tensions between the neo-cons and the so-cons, those on the left just try to pretend those differences don't exist. So-Con pro-family groups include members who despise war, and would rather not have anything to do with the military-industrial complex.

And if you remember, the neo-con architects of the Iraq war felt no need to justify their position from the Bible.

Many so-cons remain in the GOP tent, because if you oppose abortion or gay marriage, or even just looking for a party that respectfully listens to religious voters, there is no place else to go.

Everyone gets their personal values from some philosophy or teaching. And the idea of democracy is that you are free to advocate your beliefs and values openly. Calling those you disagree with "Bullies with Bibles' is the kind of name-calling you deplore when it's aimed at the Democrats.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
No, they simply co-exist under the same tent. The Dems should try making those who advocate for the unborn feel comfortable in their party. It would blunt the Republican lead in attracting churchgoers.

There are a lot of tensions between the neo-cons and the so-cons, those on the left just try to pretend those differences don't exist. So-Con pro-family groups include members who despise war, and would rather not have anything to do with the military-industrial complex.

And if you remember, the neo-con architects of the Iraq war felt no need to justify their position from the Bible.

Many so-cons remain in the GOP tent, because if you oppose abortion or gay marriage, or even just looking for a party that respectfully listens to religious voters, there is no place else to go.

Everyone gets their personal values from some philosophy or teaching. And the idea of democracy is that you are free to advocate your beliefs and values openly. Calling those you disagree with "Bullies with Bibles' is the kind of name-calling you deplore when it's aimed at the Democrats.

All true (and well said), but:

The current incarnation of the party, as embodied by Bush, is trafficking heavily in "good vs. evil" rhetoric.

They've made it clear (and by they I mean the republicans that are crafting the image for this election cycle) that the choice we are making is between a man of God who believes in God's special plan for America and will never be swayed by "evil doers" either here or abroad, and a man of no spiritual attainment whose drifting, ego driven positions are a result of his reliance on mere secular guidance.

That's what they think will win. That's who they think is their base. Sure, the real party has its rifts and varieties, but that is not the face that is being forgrounded at the moment.

For the moment it's piety, patriotism, and more piety. Hence, Dick Cheney, as a public face of the bush admin, can fairly be called "the face of Christian charity", insofar as that concept has been co-opted by Rove et al. If you dislike that you should probably take it up with Bush.

Note that I have never used the phrase "bullies with bibles", but if I had I would be referring to the cynical charlatans who use religion as a club and a shield to advance their decidedly secular agendas.

Calling out the Bush admin for its manipulation of public values in no way equates with a general condemnation of faith.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #29 of 34
Im siding with John Titor.

Remember the shame the Germans had when they realised just what they had unleashed in the world.

Remember the shame the Japanese has when they realised what they had done in the war.

I wont feel much sympathy for the Republicans when they realise who they have become.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
No, they simply co-exist under the same tent. The Dems should try making those who advocate for the unborn feel comfortable in their party. It would blunt the Republican lead in attracting churchgoers.

There are a lot of tensions between the neo-cons and the so-cons, those on the left just try to pretend those differences don't exist. So-Con pro-family groups include members who despise war, and would rather not have anything to do with the military-industrial complex.

And if you remember, the neo-con architects of the Iraq war felt no need to justify their position from the Bible.

Many so-cons remain in the GOP tent, because if you oppose abortion or gay marriage, or even just looking for a party that respectfully listens to religious voters, there is no place else to go.

Everyone gets their personal values from some philosophy or teaching. And the idea of democracy is that you are free to advocate your beliefs and values openly. Calling those you disagree with "Bullies with Bibles' is the kind of name-calling you deplore when it's aimed at the Democrats.

Calling some "Bullies with Bibles" does not mean that everyone with a Bible is a bully. there are groups of people who are America's equivalent to Afghanistan's Taliban, though they are tempered by the surrounding secular civilization of laws . . . but their Fundamentalism is one that forces itself on others by trying to dictate ways of living . . .'Bullying', and then they blame their moral bullying on the Bible

and, if a group uses 'Christianity' in order to paint a false image of their goodness and piety, when in fact the ideology that informs their vision is NOT Christain, not concerened with spiritual 'goodness' or piety, then they are 'Christians' in name only and when it is 'Convenient' for them.

Hence the meanings of these phrases . . . by no means are these to be equated with attacks on Christians in general . . . . that's paranoid from the get-go.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Calling some "Bullies with Bibles" does not mean that everyone with a Bible is a bully. there are groups of people who are America's equivalent to Afghanistan's Taliban, though they are tempered by the surrounding secular civilization of laws . . . but their Fundamentalism is one that forces itself on others by trying to dictate ways of living . . .'Bullying', and then they blame their moral bullying on the Bible

and, if a group uses 'Christianity' in order to paint a false image of their goodness and piety, when in fact the ideology that informs their vision is NOT Christain, not concerened with spiritual 'goodness' or piety, then they are 'Christians' in name only and when it is 'Convenient' for them.

Hence the meanings of these phrases . . . by no means are these to be equated with attacks on Christians in general . . . . that's paranoid from the get-go.

With all due respect, that crap.

There was a time in North America when those holding 'fundamentalist' beliefs were clearly large and in charge.

Those would be the ones that helped set up the U.S. Republic in the first place.
What did they do with this power? Make women wear robes covering everything but their eyes? Throw girls out of the school system? Mass executions in stadiums?

The closest you can get to is the burning of 30 or so accused witches in Salem. Which was more a case of mass hysteria and mob violence, and was shut down with the intervention of church authorities.

I'm not always a huge fan of the Falwells or the Pat Robertsons of the world, but equating them with the Taliban and saying they're only being restrained by 'secular civilization' is silly and only lends credibility to the world's truly dangerous zealots.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I'm not always a huge fan of the Falwells or the Pat Robertsons of the world, but equating them with the Taliban and saying they're only being restrained by 'secular civilization' is silly and only lends credibility to the world's truly dangerous zealots.

Not "always a huge" fan? lol . Listen Frank, you're very pro-present GOP, and that's fine. But come on, drop the "i'm just an outsider" prefaces already. Admit you're a Canadian neo-con and let's go from there.

On topic: that article is written in too harsh a tone for me. Too much a-la current neo-con hateful fools like the Coulters and Limbaughs out there.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
Not "always a huge" fan? lol . Listen Frank, you're very pro-present GOP, and that's fine. But come on, drop the "i'm just an outsider" prefaces already. Admit you're a Canadian neo-con and let's go from there.

On topic: that article is written in too harsh a tone for me. Too much a-la current neo-con hateful fools like the Coulters and Limbaughs out there.

Two points:

1. This is a forum where the members are primarily, but not exclusively, American. I know many people don't heed the location tag on the left when reading, so I like to make it clear where I'm from.

2. If labels had to be applied, my Evangelical background and moral positions would clearly put me in the social conservative camp, not the neo-conservative one.

I am willing to be labelly fiscally conservative on economic matters, but the neo-cons who are running the show in Washington would seem to be anything but fiscally conservative.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #34 of 34
Look all I have to say is this. Garrison Keillor is a very smart man, and a comedian. Like Al Franken, he is political but also a comedian. He makes you laugh, ok? He is also a philosopher. He is on NPR, that is government radio. It is telling when most of the US government hates Bush. I'm sure the entire EPA hates him as well as anything else that conserves wildlife, and that's a lot of employees. Also when he guts benefits, insurance, social security, etc, that affects gov't employees too, and so they hate him.

Bush is bad. Plain and simple. He is taking from the poor and giving to the rich. Workers are subsidizing their own outsourcing. Our environment is heading downhill fast. And there is no defending that. Garrison Keillor is just speaking the truth in an eloquent yet humorous way since it is in part hyperbole (so laugh and if you don't understand the big words I used then go back to listening to Britney Spears on a ClearChannel station.)
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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