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Zell miller at DNC

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
Well, I watched and was shocked and extreamly happy, he had so much to say, he could have gone on and on and on but in what little time he got, he shot down kerry rather well.

Thoughts?

Note to admin: if possible change thread name to Zell Miller at RNC. DNC was a typeo
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post #2 of 65
After Cheney's speech he was on MSNBC and absolutely FLIPPED.

He challenged Chris Mathews to a DUEL!!!

He was really fired up during his speech, I think some of that adrenaline got the best of him...

He was waiving around his "documents", yelling, and just generally very irritable...

He came off as senile to me... but I haven't really followed his career at all.

I don't really think he is AT ALL a typical Democrat and I think this embodies why the two party system is horrible. People in GA probably voted for him just because he was in the "D" column, but many republicans probably knew how conservative he was and "crossed party lines" to vote for a segregationist democrat.
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post #3 of 65
Republicans should be ashamed of that hate fest.

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #4 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Republicans should be ashamed of that hate fest.


Seriously. I'm not even sure who they're nominating. Half of every speech consists of libelous attacks on Kerry (obviously everyone got the talking points) and the other half is shameless, disgusting exploitation of 9/11.
post #5 of 65
You folks obviously have not looked up campaign traditions. It is traditional for the Vice-President to give a speech going after the opposition candidate.

John Edwards speech was exactly along the same lines. It was full of "two Americas" rhetoric which are attacks on Bush.

Someone hasn't followed tradition this week though.... John Kerry.

Traditionally, the opposition candidate has not campaigned during the respective convention. This is not a law, but a sort of traditional bipartisan agreement between the two parties. Bush respected this tradition not holding press conferences or speaking, even while his leadership was being attacked.

Not John Kerry...

CNN

Quote:
Kerry plans to break from the tradition of staying off the trail during the opposing party's convention with a speech Wednesday at the American Legion.

And we see here that he did indeed break that tradition.

CNN

Sad, Kerry is so afraid of the Republicans being heard on his record that he can't even respect the actions that were shown to him and traditions that have been followed in the past.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
After Cheney's speech he was on MSNBC and absolutely FLIPPED.

He challenged Chris Mathews to a DUEL!!!

He was really fired up during his speech, I think some of that adrenaline got the best of him...

He was waiving around his "documents", yelling, and just generally very irritable...

He came off as senile to me... but I haven't really followed his career at all.

I don't really think he is AT ALL a typical Democrat and I think this embodies why the two party system is horrible. People in GA probably voted for him just because he was in the "D" column, but many republicans probably knew how conservative he was and "crossed party lines" to vote for a segregationist democrat.

Zel Miller is a southern Democrat just like Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, any of these names sound familiar?

Miller gave the keynote speech during the 1992 Democratic convention. That was the year the Republicans were slammed for having Pat Buchanan speak. Who has has widened their base? The Republicans let pro-choice Arnold Schwarzenegger speak. They let a Democrat speak.

Did the Democrats let anyone speak who doesn't tow the party line in any area? Did they even let Ralph Nader in the building? (Republicans have let Michael Moore in)

It is the Democrats who have moved to the far left.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Did the Democrats let anyone speak who doesn't tow the party line in any area?

Apparently they didn't feel like lying about what their platform is.

You trot out some pro-choice moderates, a senile Democrat and then Bush can give a compassionate conservative speech.

Then, when re-elected (and he will be re-elected) he will stay on the far right wing after selling himself as a uniting moderate.

So what if Cheney opposed the same military initiatives Kerry did, right?
So what if Bush also calls the troops "occupiers", right?

"Who cares about facts? We want mentally unbalanced rage and spit!"
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post #8 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Apparently they didn't feel like lying about what their platform is.

You trot out some pro-choice moderates, a senile Democrat and then Bush can give a compassionate conservative speech.

Then, when re-elected (and he will be re-elected) he will stay on the far right wing after selling himself as a uniting moderate.

So what if Cheney opposed the same military initiatives Kerry did, right?
So what if Bush also calls the troops "occupiers", right?

"Who cares about facts? We want mentally unbalanced rage and spit!"

Talking about drinking the kool-aid...

Here's a hint. You can feature more than one view or type of thought when your party allows and HAS more than one type of view or thought.

You are right that Bush will win reelection. Afterwards the Democrats will have to ask themselves why if they couldn't win when the economy was up (2000) or when the economy is tepid with Bush (2004) or when there is divided opinion on Iraq, what the hell is wrong with their message.

Maybe they will finally toss Terry out on his ass. Maybe they will stop loathing and alienating white men, especially blue collar white men. Maybe they will stop their sexual correctness police of which you are a member. (All men are guilty until shot)

Then maybe if they get honest, stop calling everyone a closet sexist, racist, and just plain evil, they will get some votes back.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Maybe they will stop loathing and alienating white men, especially blue collar white men. Maybe they will stop their sexual correctness police of which you are a member. (All men are guilty until shot)

Then maybe if they get honest, stop calling everyone a closet sexist, racist, and just plain evil, they will get some votes back.

*SNEER*

REEEEEEACTIONARY!

Meh.

post #10 of 65
Yeah that pretty much sums up trumpts reactionary position. . . .flip it around and it says: "white power - for white men"

.


Here's the question answered as to why we will have lost, if we do: The Republicans have spent the last 20 years perfecting the art of media control: of reinforcing an echo-chamber that starts with bottom-feeders and vitriolic talk-heads, and then moves up through cable and which is then followed by the slovenly and lazy mainstream media: they don't need to be decent leaders or have decent or even competent careers, because when it comes to election time they have mastered the art of staying up-front and hitting all the empty, vacuous emoticon postures . . .

They are masters of the empty emotional appeal . . . . empty of reality
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #11 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Talking about drinking the kool-aid...

Here's a hint. You can feature more than one view or type of thought when your party allows and HAS more than one type of view or thought.

You are right that Bush will win reelection. Afterwards the Democrats will have to ask themselves why if they couldn't win when the economy was up (2000) or when the economy is tepid with Bush (2004) or when there is divided opinion on Iraq, what the hell is wrong with their message.

Maybe they will finally toss Terry out on his ass. Maybe they will stop loathing and alienating white men, especially blue collar white men. Maybe they will stop their sexual correctness police of which you are a member. (All men are guilty until shot)

Then maybe if they get honest, stop calling everyone a closet sexist, racist, and just plain evil, they will get some votes back.

Nick

Exactly. If they lose this one, it's not going to be good for the party. I really want to see strong Democrats run for President and national office. The problem is, those people have been shut out of the big dance under McCauliffe.

I predict that if they lose, McCaullife is gone. He's lost almost every major battle since he came on board. His intellectual dishonesty and spinning is beyond anything I have seen on either side of the aisle, from anyone.
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post #12 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
*SNEER*

REEEEEEACTIONARY!

Meh.


Keep calling names instead of worrying about policy and watch your party stay in the minority.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Yeah that pretty much sums up trumpts reactionary position. . . .flip it around and it says: "white power - for white men"

.


Here's the question answered as to why we will have lost, if we do: The Republicans have spent the last 20 years perfecting the art of media control: of reinforcing an echo-chamber that starts with bottom-feeders and vitriolic talk-heads, and then moves up through cable and which is then followed by the slovenly and lazy mainstream media: they don't need to be decent leaders or have decent or even competent careers, because when it comes to election time they have mastered the art of staying up-front and hitting all the empty, vacuous emoticon postures . . .

They are masters of the empty emotional appeal . . . . empty of reality

Republican Media Control!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'll let you know after I go read the NYT editorial "The Birth of a Bush Attack Ad"

LOL!
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post #14 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Towel
Seriously. I'm not even sure who they're nominating. Half of every speech consists of libelous attacks on Kerry (obviously everyone got the talking points) and the other half is shameless, disgusting exploitation of 9/11.

It's not libelous if it's true. I agree they need to back off 9/11 a bit.
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post #15 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Keep calling names instead of worrying about policy and watch your party stay in the minority.

Nick

Reactionary is exactly the name I'll call your worldview. And policies stemming from that worldview are exactly what I'm worried about.
post #16 of 65
Clearly the average american knows bubkis about the way the government works. Clearly they also forget that policies last longer than just the few short years that a president holds sway over the country...
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post #17 of 65
Quote:
Here's a hint. You can feature more than one view or type of thought when your party allows and HAS more than one type of view or thought.

Insinuating that the Democrats do not have a variety of viewpoints in a thread about a Democrat who spoke at a Republican convention. Hilarious.

Past that... there is no diversity within the Bush administration, so putting pro-choice folks out is just disengenuous. At least Kerry had the balls to put Kennedy out there knowing that he is a lightning rod for being a liberal. At least he was honestly advertising his platform, even if you don't agree with it.

Quote:
Maybe they will stop loathing and alienating white men, especially blue collar white men.

As a blue collar white man, I do not feel alienated by a party that concerns itself with minority and women's issues.

I have no patience for the oppressed white man. It is worse than hearing children whine about how unfair it is that they can't stay up until 2 am.
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post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
watch your party stay in the minority.

The majority of American voters wanted Gore.

Bush has acted as if he had a popular mandate for neo-con, far-right, crony capitalism but let's not get carried away.
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post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
The majority of American voters wanted Gore.

Bush has acted as if he had a popular mandate for neo-con, far-right, crony capitalism but let's not get carried away.

That is actually in dispute. The media's early call cost Bush bigtime. We'll never know.
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post #20 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
It's not libelous if it's true. I agree they need to back off 9/11 a bit.

And it is if it's not. It's perfectly easy to list the specific and repeated lies that are coming form the podium at this convention. Except that you don't care.

Just win. Doesn't matter how, or what gets broken in the process.
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post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Insinuating that the Democrats do not have a variety of viewpoints in a thread about a Democrat who spoke at a Republican convention. Hilarious.

But you read the typical reactions yourself. "He's not a Democrat!" "He must have been an 'old school' Democrat who doesn't really exist or represent the party anymore" "He must be senile", etc.

He also said himself that his views were no longer in the party, were no longer welcome in the party, and that the party had left him.

Quote:
As a blue collar white man, I do not feel alienated by a party that concerns itself with minority and women's issues.

Of course you don't, you "know your place." You're a blue collar man marrying a white collar woman. You will know when to shut the hell up and jump just as high as she commands. You consider this to be "equality." You don't mind being less because it helps soothe your guilt.

BTW, how does a guy with a college degree end up blue collar?

Additionally, no one is upset with a party concerning themselves with minority or women's issues. It is when they REFUSE to address the fact that men can have issues as well or believe that society addreses them and so the government doesn't have to or has to actively alter society to the detriment of men.

Quote:
I have no patience for the oppressed white man. It is worse than hearing children whine about how unfair it is that they can't stay up until 2 am.

Maybe you'll care when you have a son.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Additionally, no one is upset with a party concerning themselves with minority or women's issues. It is when they REFUSE to address the fact that men can have issues as well or believe that society addreses them and so the government doesn't have to or has to actively alter society to the detriment of men.

I don't understand this line of argument...are you saying that issues that pertain only to white men need to be given special consideration? Or are you saying that white men are marginalised and ignored? What issues are you referring to?
post #23 of 65
Very potent. He really called out the left.
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post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
But you read the typical reactions yourself. "He's not a Democrat!" "He must have been an 'old school' Democrat who doesn't really exist or represent the party anymore" "He must be senile", etc.

He also said himself that his views were no longer in the party, were no longer welcome in the party, and that the party had left him.



Of course you don't, you "know your place." You're a blue collar man marrying a white collar woman. You will know when to shut the hell up and jump just as high as she commands. You consider this to be "equality." You don't mind being less because it helps soothe your guilt.

BTW, how does a guy with a college degree end up blue collar?
Nick

This is the heighth of reactionary panic . . . . you are afraid of women, tout court, and simply . . . . you show it over and over and over . . . it is practically pathological. And now your whole political allegiance is predicated on 'the attack of strong women'

I don't know, somehow a 'man' can handle strong women as equals. . . and would even respect them more for their strength . . . and themselves for not demanding that their women be weak . . .

and, a 'white' man should feel secure in the struggle of minorities for equality . .
. they should also have the strength of character to look at history for what it has been: a history of great achievements by white men (among others), but also a history of struggle by women and different groups to free themselves from imposed restrictions on freedoms . . . quite often imposed by those in power who happened, in the west, to be white men.

a 'real man' would be able to digest such a history and understand how it still effects the present, and would be able to stand up for what is right without succumbing to some sort of reactionary hysterical identity panic
. . .
so be a man and stop your whining . . . its disgusting
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #25 of 65
Very well said. Pfflam makes me proud to be a man.
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Miller gave the keynote speech during the 1992 Democratic convention. That was the year the Republicans were slammed for having Pat Buchanan speak. Who has has widened their base? The Republicans let pro-choice Arnold Schwarzenegger speak. They let a Democrat speak.

LMAO. They "let a Dem speak" eh? How generous of them for "letting" Zig Zag Zell speak.
That base is so "wide" we won't be hearing the Santorums, the Delays, the Christian Coalition very much.....if at all.....just the "compassionate conservatives". Get real.
Quote:
My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders and a good friend.

He was once a lieutenant governor but he didn't stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984.

In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington.

Link
Quote:
John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its "Digital Dozen."

Just a little taste of what Miller had to say in 2001 about Kerry. If it weren't so politically convenient, our little in-house neocons would be blasting Miller for his history of flip-flopping. But he's alright now that he's been "a friend" for some time obviously.

I'd love to be able to see Trump and SDW tonight. Drinking Kool Aid, shedding a tear or two the moment Bush goes into his sad puppy compassionate face routine. Priceless.
post #27 of 65
trumptman:

Quote:
But you read the typical reactions yourself. "He's not a Democrat!" "He must have been an 'old school' Democrat who doesn't really exist or represent the party anymore" "He must be senile", etc.

So that proves that he wasn't a Democrat talking at a Republican convention?

Quote:
He also said himself that his views were no longer in the party, were no longer welcome in the party, and that the party had left him.

He left the farm.
In 2001 he called Kerry a "hero" and a "personal friend". If he just read what they wrote and would make that kind of claim his credibility is nothing at all. Past that, he is just making an excuse.

Going from "hero" & "personal friend" to the RNC speech shows a big shift on a personal level, not a party level.

Quote:
Of course you don't, you "know your place." You're a blue collar man marrying a white collar woman. You will know when to shut the hell up and jump just as high as she commands. You consider this to be "equality." You don't mind being less because it helps soothe your guilt.

I shut the hell up and jump as high as she demands?
She wants me to shut the hell up and jump as high as she demands?

You obviously have serious issues with regard to women, I feel sorry for your wife.

Quote:
BTW, how does a guy with a college degree end up blue collar?

I guess that depends on the definition of "blue collar". I wear running shoes and jeans to work.

Quote:
Additionally, no one is upset with a party concerning themselves with minority or women's issues. It is when they REFUSE to address the fact that men can have issues as well or believe that society addreses them and so the government doesn't have to or has to actively alter society to the detriment of men.

The Democratic party REFUSES to acknowledge white male issues? Like what, specifically? (Also, how are the Republicans addressing those same issues?)

Quote:
Maybe you'll care when you have a son.

Be more specific.
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post #28 of 65
I would just interject to note that Zell's "approving of Kerry" speech is pre 9-11.

Most of the snippets I saw of his "GOP speech" took issue with the Democrats response to 9-11. (Note: I did not see the whole speech.)


He seems to be from the "rally-around-your-leaders" generation that counted honour above politics.
Whether right or wrong, I think the man feels genuinely let down by his party's stance on the WOT.
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post #29 of 65
Quote:
I would just interject to note that Zell's "approving of Kerry" speech is pre 9-11.

So?

Quote:
Most of the snippets I saw of his "GOP speech" took issue with the Democrats response to 9-11. (Note: I did not see the whole speech.)

He spent a great deal of time fleshing out the idea that Kennedy and Kerry have sucked for 20 years, not just after 9/11.

Quote:
He seems to be from the "rally-around-your-leaders" generation that counted honour above politics.

More like loyalty above logic and reason.

Quote:
Whether right or wrong, I think the man feels genuinely let down by his party's stance on the WOT.

That's true, and it is a disturbing feeling.
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post #30 of 65
Zell Miller was a disaster for the GOP:

ZELL MILLER ROUNDUP....Reaction to Zell Miller's temper tantrum last night has not been pretty:

Quote:
Eric Zorn has transcripts of Miller's just-short-of-clinically-insane interviews on MSNBC and CNN right after his speech.

William Saletan goes nuclear: this is no longer just an ordinary election, he says, it's "becoming a referendum on democracy."

NewDonkey: "Not since Pat Buchanan's famous 'culture war' speech in 1992 has a major speaker at a national political convention spoken so hatefully, at such length, about the opposition. At the dark heart of the speech was the same old tired litany of lies and mischaracterizations about Kerry's Senate votes on military spending and weapons systems that BC04 has been retailing for many months."

From a time machine, Zell Miller himself criticizes his speech. Here's what he had to say in 2001: "John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington....John has worked to strengthen our military."

Andrew Sullivan: "[Miller's] speech tonight was in this vein, a classic Dixiecrat speech, jammed with bald lies, straw men, and hateful rhetoric....The man's speech was not merely crude; it added whole universes to the word crude."

Jonathan Cohn in the New Republic: "It was one of the most vile political speeches in recent American history, every bit as offensive as Pat Buchanan's infamous call in 1992 for "religious war" and, perhaps, a little more disturbing. Buchanan's speech, after all, was an assault on decency. Last night Miller declared war on democracy."

Matt Yglesias, who was in the hall when Miller spoke: "I don't believe I've ever heard a more disgusting speech delivered in the English language. The fact that I couldn't see a single person on the floor who seemed to feel anything less than the utmost enthusiasm for that lunacy was, well, a bit disturbing."

Commenter Thumb, reacting to my pithy comment last night: "Zell's speech reads better in the original German."

At times like this, I wish more people watched the conventions. If more of the country had seen Miller's ranting, cowardly attack last night, the election would probably be as good as over.

Washington Monthly
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post #31 of 65
Maybe he was a mole?!

heehee

anybody know of links to any of the circus shows? Convention or otherwise?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #32 of 65
post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I would just interject to note that Zell's "approving of Kerry" speech is pre 9-11.

Most of the snippets I saw of his "GOP speech" took issue with the Democrats response to 9-11. (Note: I did not see the whole speech.)


He seems to be from the "rally-around-your-leaders" generation that counted honour above politics.
Whether right or wrong, I think the man feels genuinely let down by his party's stance on the WOT.

Hmmmm?

And which response was that? The overwhelming support of the President? The overwhelming support of going into Afghanistan? The quick, bipartisan passage of the so-called "Patriot Act"? The blank check given to the President to wage his WOT?

Another oft repeated lie that the right seems to have mistaken for true-- and we were all here, and it was just a few years ago.

Jesus.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Hmmmm?
seems to have mistaken for true-- and we were all here, and it was just a few years ago.

Jesus.

Yeah. It's amazing. They're actually attacking John Kerry for his support for the war(s). Kewel.

I've just visited the Republican website and now I have absolutely no doubt at all that George Bush will win the election. The Republican party is prepared to do absolutely anything, no matter how tawdry, to win. The Democrats haven't got a hope.

On the site's frontpage is an invitation to download the trailer for a film called 'Kerry on Iraq' (which the site proudly claims outsold Fahrenheit 911 on it's opening weekend.) Flippetyfloppy weakling girlieboy Kerry caught by his own words, in this case supporting the President at a time of national crisis.

First thing you see when the page loads.
post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Hmmmm?

And which response was that? The overwhelming support of the President? The overwhelming support of going into Afghanistan? The quick, bipartisan passage of the so-called "Patriot Act"? The blank check given to the President to wage his WOT?

Another oft repeated lie that the right seems to have mistaken for true-- and we were all here, and it was just a few years ago.

Jesus.

Imagine that. The lies work on Canadians too. Hook, line and sinker.

May I interject that it would actually be a good idea to umm...you know...watch the whole speech.

By the way Frank777...what is the Dems stance on the "WOT"? I can't wait.
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
By the way Frank777...what is the Dems stance on the "WOT"? I can't wait.

Well, going by Senate votes...

There was the 98-1 passage of the PATRIOT ACT.
96-0 approval of the first post-9/11 supplemental appropriation.
98-0 approval of invading Afghanistan.
77-23 approval of authorizing use of force in Iraq at the President's discretion.
93-0 passage of the first Iraq supplemental appropriation.
87-12 passages of the second Iraq supplemental appropriation.

These aren't exactly party-line squeakers. Democrats in Congress fully support, to a man, the War on Terror. They even gave and are still giving the President an enormous benefit of the doubt on Iraq. Don't soil yourself with the slander of the unpatriotic Democrat.
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Of course you don't, you "know your place." You're a blue collar man marrying a white collar woman. You will know when to shut the hell up and jump just as high as she commands. You consider this to be "equality." You don't mind being less because it helps soothe your guilt.

That is one of the most fucked up comments I've ever had the misfortune to read on this board.
Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
And for the lover, tomorrow shall be love.
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Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
And for the lover, tomorrow shall be love.
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post #38 of 65
Oh yeah, total angry, impotent white man rage case. Everything is someone else's fault, a grand conspiracy to get a single person.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
By the way Frank777...what is the Dems stance on the "WOT"? I can't wait.

I think I was fairly upfront about the fact that I hadn't seen the whole speech, and was only commenting on my perceptions of Miller. (This is the first time I've seen him speak.)

And I'm not into reciting either side's talking points.

But I think your question is actually the 2x4 that the GOP is using to beat the Democrats senseless.

Rather than stress the points Towel just brought up, the Dems allowed their position on the WOT to be define by the Republican hit machine.

In politics, you never let your opponent define you in the media. Period.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Reactionary is exactly the name I'll call your worldview. And policies stemming from that worldview are exactly what I'm worried about.

Sure, and I'll call your view authoritarian communism. You claim to desire progress while promoting privilege for yourself. You'll mouth the right words and supposedly go "help" poor kids for gee.. a whole two years.

You're so full of shit it comes out your ears. You walk around pointing your fingers at others when you are a rich white kid, at a rich private school in Pennsylvania. You live in an insular world not only of experience but of ignorance, and you go around accusing the rest of us who live in the real world.

Grow the hell up.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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