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Zell miller at DNC - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Sure, and I'll call your view authoritarian communism. You claim to desire progress while promoting privilege for yourself. You'll mouth the right words and supposedly go "help" poor kids for gee.. a whole two years.

You're so full of shit it comes out your ears. You walk around pointing your fingers at others when you are a rich white kid, at a rich private school in Pennsylvania. You live in an insular world not only of experience but of ignorance, and you go around accusing the rest of us who live in the real world.

Grow the hell up.

Nick

I live in the real world and I think you're a dick.
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post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
I live in the real world and I think you're a dick.

I might "go help poor kids for gee.. a whole two years" in the Bay Area. We should meet up.
post #43 of 65
He's from back when Democrats were the bad guys, the racists, from the South. I bet he played golf with Strom Thurmond.
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post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
This is the heighth of reactionary panic . . . . you are afraid of women, tout court, and simply . . . . you show it over and over and over . . . it is practically pathological. And now your whole political allegiance is predicated on 'the attack of strong women'

Typical of you, you label people instead of addressing the ideals. I'm afraid of women, yet I would bet good money I work with higher percentage of them everyday. Perhaps since I spend my day working with intelligent, empowered women, I don't see them as the weak, needy, helpless little things that you constantly claim need protecting. As for tort reform, when DNA can get you off death row, but not out of paternity, reform is needed. If you can't see that or want to label calls to change such stupid laws as fearful, then you are simply blind.

Quote:
I don't know, somehow a 'man' can handle strong women as equals. . . and would even respect them more for their strength . . . and themselves for not demanding that their women be weak . . .

No one said that women had to be weak. Just that men don't have to be weakened to give women their rights. It isn't an or question. You constantly seek to change it to that. You make it weak women vs. strong men or strong women vs. weak men. It can be equal women and equal men. It doesn't even have to be oppositional. You don't have to tear someone down to raise yourself up. People like you can't seem to realize that. You take your own belief system and impose it on me. I must "hate" women since I want them to be equal which means tearing them down. Stop imposing your views on to my actions. When I desire to equalize genders, it doesn't mean I hate someone, or believe that I have to legally tear down someone.

Quote:
and, a 'white' man should feel secure in the struggle of minorities for equality . .
. they should also have the strength of character to look at history for what it has been: a history of great achievements by white men (among others), but also a history of struggle by women and different groups to free themselves from imposed restrictions on freedoms . . . quite often imposed by those in power who happened, in the west, to be white men.

Perhaps you should stop looking at history only from a western view. People of all persuasions have been subjugating other people since the dawn of time. You don't stop that by simply saying, "well we want to draw a line in history HERE and now we want to subjugate these people because of what happened to THOSE people."

What about the Scottish and Irish subjugation by the English? What about black subjugation to other tribes and the selling by blacks of slave to whites. What about white slavery that existed for centuries?

You fit your history to the beliefs you desire to advocate. Perhaps you should try the reverse. Better still try not advocating continual racism and sexism via lowered expectations.



Quote:
a 'real man' would be able to digest such a history and understand how it still effects the present, and would be able to stand up for what is right without succumbing to some sort of reactionary hysterical identity panic
. . .
so be a man and stop your whining . . . its disgusting

A real man would advocate for real rights instead of going along with your macho, bullshit facade.

You know what is so disgusting about this Pfflam, you come at me with this "men are disposable and just supposed to suck it up and take whatever is dished to them" attitude, and at the same time want me to bemoan the loss of life in places like Iraq. What BULLSHIT! I suppose I should just tell you to "stop your whining" and "be a real man" because in your view, men are nothing but the bodies we toss at our problems. Be that war, or needing an income for an unclaimed kid, whoever we need to toss into jail to show we are "tough" on parents who don't earn enough.

Your two-faced facade a house of cards that comes apart with a gust of win.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
I live in the real world and I think you're a dick.

Gee that and a quarter will buy you a piece of gum.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
trumptman:

So that proves that he wasn't a Democrat talking at a Republican convention?

Again it is the leftist thought police who impose the orthodoxy that if you speak out, you are speaking againt your race, gender, party, etc.

Quote:
He left the farm.
In 2001 he called Kerry a "hero" and a "personal friend". If he just read what they wrote and would make that kind of claim his credibility is nothing at all. Past that, he is just making an excuse.

Going from "hero" & "personal friend" to the RNC speech shows a big shift on a personal level, not a party level.

Maybe it shows that even though Kerry is a friend, that he wouldn't trust him to defend the country and his own family.

Quote:
I shut the hell up and jump as high as she demands?
She wants me to shut the hell up and jump as high as she demands?

You obviously have serious issues with regard to women, I feel sorry for your wife.

You're the one with issues man. My wife and I are equals. I don't need to buy into some self-loathing belief system just to feel good in her presence. She doesn't have to for me either. Wish we could say the same for you. It's obvious you loath who you are and deride it in some attempt to prove how politically correct you can be.

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I guess that depends on the definition of "blue collar". I wear running shoes and jeans to work.

Me too...

Blue collar is often thought of as manual or unskilled labor. If that is the type of work you have to do after getting a degree, then you choose poorly or were robbed of an education.

Quote:
The Democratic party REFUSES to acknowledge white male issues? Like what, specifically? (Also, how are the Republicans addressing those same issues?)

The Republican party doesn't attempt to carve women off seperately, tell them that the world is harming them in this day and age for issues that often matters of personal choice (like the wage gap for example) and them promise to deal with these issues by dealing with the other parties involved. (That would be men)

For example on the Kerry website, it talks about the need to open more college opportunities for women via Title IX. Like women are really the minority in colleges and it is because of athletics that they are the minority. Women are the MAJORITY in colleges. They don't participate in athletics at the same rate as men even when the college is EXCLUSIVELY women. It is that type of false statement that leads to athletic scholarships for men, and also men's teams being dismantled out of some attempt to create equality in an area where women are already 55+% of all students.

Republicans deal with men and women as just people. They don't create us versus them by gender lines.

Quote:
Be more specific.

Look into failure rates of boys in schools.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by crazychester
That is one of the most fucked up comments I've ever had the misfortune to read on this board.

You need to check your comprehension then. Making yourself lower than someone isn't equality. If you think that is "fucked up" then too bad for you.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Look into failure rates of boys in schools.

Nick

An admission that men are stupid!?! I didn't think you had it in you.
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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You need to check your comprehension then. Making yourself lower than someone isn't equality. If you think that is "fucked up" then too bad for you.

Nick

Gosh I would have been really cut if you'd missed me.

So what's with the rampage trumpty?
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post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
I think I was fairly upfront about the fact that I hadn't seen the whole speech, and was only commenting on my perceptions of Miller. (This is the first time I've seen him speak.)And I'm not into reciting either side's talking points.

I wasn't asking you for any "talking points". I was asking you about the Dems "stance" that according to you so "genuinely" made "Zig Zag" Miller feel "let down". And you might want to do a little research on Miller.
By the way, you didn't seem to have a problem indirectly saying that the Democrats hadn't rallied around their leader because they were busy playing politics . Then others shot down your theory pointing out that the Dems "response" was not very different (if at all) than that of the Reps. Weak try.
Quote:
But I think your question is actually the 2x4 that the GOP is using to beat the Democrats senseless.

A lot of us Americans are smart enough not to fall for it. We'll see how beat up the Dems are once the real campaign kicks off next week won't we?
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman

Nick

WOw
You work with real women? More than one?

Funny thing Trumpt, but I actually agree with you about much of what you are talking about: the reform of paternity laws for instance, the fact that schools are geared for a kind of learning that is more appropriate to the form of knowledge acquisition that girls tend to be made for . . . there may be a thing or two in there as well that I mught agree with . .
(I would also point out, however, that mush of that is deeply cultural/systemic: for instance, the 'expectations' placed on boys, what they are supposed to care about . . . I don't believe that it is completely malleable, boys do tend to be more physically assertive beyond culture but it still plays a real part.)


But, you will note that I was specifically refering to this out-of-the-blue, and truly bizzar post about Groverat and his 'jump' saying white-caller wife (?!?!)
. . . it seemed to me to indicate some kind of fear of being 'whipped' . . . after all, men seem to hate the notion of being 'whipped' or 'hen pecked'

But usually I find that men who go on about that are also overly concerned about some sort of fictional and imaginary status of 'manhood', and/or, are working out all the slights that they got when they were unpopular geeks in that torture chamber known as highschool.

But anyway . . . whether that is you or not, and I am not saying that it is, I did find that paragraph to be the kind that a troubled person -re:relations to the other sex- might make . . . and coupled with the shear quantity of threads devoted to issues surrounding that 'sensetive' area . . . I, perhaps hastily, painted a forensic model of the perpettrator . . . oh well, you say I was wrong, so be it.

BTW, yeah, I'm all for high expectations . . . I am also for reality and for real people who live with real conditions.
and I'm very much Irish and know about 'all that' so don't try to throw that shit at me .. . I also made it very clear that I was talking about western history . . . and know very well that we abuse our own here in white man land . . . . and in other lands: abuse also occurs . . . so what? it does not negate teh fact that abuse can be slightly emiliorated through minimal care and attention, and if not that then at least acknowledgement should be paid to the realities of its complexity and its mere existence.

Oh, and let me guess, tough men don't bemoan death?!
I guess I'm not that tough after all.
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--Franklin Miller.

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post #52 of 65
Anyone see zell miller totally lose it when talking with chris matthews?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/

As Andrew Sullivan said, too:
Quote:
The man's speech was not merely crude; it added whole universes to the word crude.

Zell miller's speech was so full of falsehoods that even Chris Matthews ripped into him like no one else. Zell's got serious issues, as does anyone that listens to him.
post #53 of 65
As you can see in the CNN interview, Miller is FOS when it comes to the B2 and F14 (which, incidentally, were only voted against by Kerry as part of larger bills) since Cheney was actually opposed to precisely those systems.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...-zornlog.story

Don't you fake conservatives have at least a little bit of a conscience? Even a little?
post #54 of 65
Consciences are for whimps, girleymen, and Democrats. And they get in the way of Patriotism.
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post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Anyone see zell miller totally lose it when talking with chris matthews?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/

Interesting.

Bush is going to win. The Republicans aren't simply after election, they're after a mandate. They have to operate on the American body politic to get it.

In the meantime, Kerry's too busy defending himself from Republican attacks (visit gop.com and read the frontpage- nasty) to go after a mandate of any kind when what he needs to be doing is publicly and proudly attacking the administration on its record and its honesty.
post #56 of 65
By the way all that women stuff above is quite disgusting.

What trumptman said about class, the inevitability of guilt in a relationship between a man and a woman of different classes and a woman's obvious predisposition to get a man to 'jump' on command says a hell of a lot more about the insecurity and bitterness of the poster than it does about the nature of relationships.

Most of us fall in love and then learn to compromise without feeling as though our balls are shrinking.

Really unpleasant stuff.
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Blue collar is often thought of as manual or unskilled labor. If that is the type of work you have to do after getting a degree, then you choose poorly or were robbed of an education.

This is an incredibly arrogant and prickish thing to say.
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post #58 of 65
Either the guy really is wacko, or he was intentionally over they top in order to make the Republicans actually look bad, which he seems to have accomplished quite well seeing how quickly Bush inc. has been distancing itself from his speech.
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by craiger77
Either the guy really is wacko, or he was intentionally over they top in order to make the Republicans actually look bad, which he seems to have accomplished quite well seeing how quickly Bush inc. has been distancing itself from his speech.

you'd think so... but check the msnbc link above - a focus group of undecideds went 11 out of 17 in favor of his rant.

Jeebus, save us from the Sheep....
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post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
WOw
You work with real women? More than one?

Funny thing Trumpt, but I actually agree with you about much of what you are talking about
: the reform of paternity laws for instance, the fact that schools are geared for a kind of learning that is more appropriate to the form of knowledge acquisition that girls tend to be made for . . . there may be a thing or two in there as well that I mught agree with . .

I work almost exclusively with women. 90%+ of elementary educators are women. My principal and AP are both women as well. If I don't get along well with women, then I don't get through the day.

As for agreeing with me on tort reform and education being currently geared in a manner that might disadvantage boys... that just means you hate women. I mean advocating any change or reform of the system means you want women in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. That is what you and others imply all the time.

I work in a system that is overwhelmingly staffed and run by women. When you look at this system you see that boys are failed at and failed by the system at rates grossly disproportionate to their numbers. Any suggestion of change is called hate of women, wanting to disempower women, etc. That is nonsense.

Quote:
But, you will note that I was specifically refering to this out-of-the-blue, and truly bizzar post about Groverat and his 'jump' saying white-caller wife (?!?!)
. . . it seemed to me to indicate some kind of fear of being 'whipped' . . . after all, men seem to hate the notion of being 'whipped' or 'hen pecked'

What I was referring to is people who lie down their own rights in some self-loathing attempt to prove that they want to equalize another group. It could be affluent folks attempting to act underclass or men for example, refusing to make full use of their gifts. The reality is that if you believe that you have to bring yourself down because another cannot rise up, that really means you think less of the other party, not more. It means you are deciding to make yourself less to keep things equal and less comfortable since you don't believe they could ever meet your level of achievement. It isn't about being whipped, it is about holding yourself back because you believe that it promotes equality. That is wrong.

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But usually I find that men who go on about that are also overly concerned about some sort of fictional and imaginary status of 'manhood', and/or, are working out all the slights that they got when they were unpopular geeks in that torture chamber known as highschool.

I find that people who worry about popularity are often unprincipled. I have no horrible past with terrible issues that you might imagine. Of course if I mention that or any details then others here say "gee your just boasting" when you correct their strange delusions.

Let's just say I was the only person in the school who was both a starter on the football team for four years and also the top player in the band. I lettered in track for three years and graduated with various academic honors as well. I don't really know how you measure "popularity" since I don't truly care about such things. I think some might measure it by how many "brews" you drink after the game on Friday night before you attempt to bed your girlfriend in the bushes at some party.

I'm an occasional social drinker, but generally I don't drink. I will say this though, I never had any trouble getting dates, and any girl that was a valerdictorian or in the top five or so academically, in not only my class but in classes two years above or below mine, I dated because I enjoy smart women. My own wife is a college graduate with honors.

Quote:
But anyway . . . whether that is you or not, and I am not saying that it is, I did find that paragraph to be the kind that a troubled person -re:relations to the other sex- might make . . . and coupled with the shear quantity of threads devoted to issues surrounding that 'sensetive' area . . . I, perhaps hastily, painted a forensic model of the perpettrator . . . oh well, you say I was wrong, so be it.

Maybe the shear number of threads is in direct proportion to the thickness of your skull. I mean say I've posted even say 50 of them. If I can find can find so many instances of injustice and yet you claim anyone wanting to fix the problem "irrationally hates women" then that really says something about my need to keep educating you.

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BTW, yeah, I'm all for high expectations . . . I am also for reality and for real people who live with real conditions.

No one said to ignore reality. People like myself suggest economically based affirmative action all the time. If a group is disproportionately poor, then they would disproportionately benefit. The reality though is that people want to make it about race or gender because they have some irrational belief that if you are white or male, you could never be disadvantaged.



Quote:
and I'm very much Irish and know about 'all that' so don't try to throw that shit at me .. . I also made it very clear that I was talking about western history . . . and know very well that we abuse our own here in white man land . . . . and in other lands: abuse also occurs . . . so what? it does not negate teh fact that abuse can be slightly emiliorated through minimal care and attention, and if not that then at least acknowledgement should be paid to the realities of its complexity and its mere existence.

For making it so clear, you are getting rather foggy. The reality is that you can't just claim certain people are the only ones who have been victimized. If your Irish, then you know how stupid I would look if I claimed you had some sort of historical privilege based on your background and that you should be intentionally denied opportunities now because of the background of another person.

Your answer for the fact that repression of freedom and opportunity was EVERYWHERE in history? So what?!?!

I mean Native American tribes often enslaved other tribes, but, so what... it is all whitey's fault. Same of other "races" (race is a nonsense historical term anyway) as well. So lets keep using the same stupid thinking of antiquity that led to all those problems in our own modern world.

Nonsense.

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Oh, and let me guess, tough men don't bemoan death?!
I guess I'm not that tough after all.

You were the one with the macho phrasing. I point out real instances, instances you and I can both agree injustic can exist and your reply was basically suck it up and stop whining. The point is don't tell me to be callous injustice in one instance and be very sensitive to it in others. It isn't consistant.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
By the way all that women stuff above is quite disgusting.

What trumptman said about class, the inevitability of guilt in a relationship between a man and a woman of different classes and a woman's obvious predisposition to get a man to 'jump' on command says a hell of a lot more about the insecurity and bitterness of the poster than it does about the nature of relationships.

Most of us fall in love and then learn to compromise without feeling as though our balls are shrinking.

Really unpleasant stuff.

Actually it says a lot more when the difference in classes is a choice rather than simply your background. My own background is blue collar in that my father is a diesel mechanic. My wife's background is white collar. But we choose to be equals and discuss our historical differences in the day to day matters of our marriage. But that does not mean I intentionally make myself less to insure she can be equal. She is equal because she was born equal. I do not have to give her, or lay down anything for her. I do not consider her weaker or less capably and thus intentionally limit myself so we can be "equal."

If you consider me pointing out that the belief that someone cannot rise up, and instead you must lay down to create equality is "unpleasant stuff" then it really says that you think very little of women and believe them to be incapable.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 65
Quote:
Again it is the leftist thought police who impose the orthodoxy that if you speak out, you are speaking againt your race, gender, party, etc.

A general gripe about how everyone is trying to keep the white man down is laughable.
If you have any specific complaints that is different, but to try and act like white males are an oppressed class in general is not realistic; left-wing thought police or no.

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Maybe it shows that even though Kerry is a friend, that he wouldn't trust him to defend the country and his own family.

You wouldn't trust someone you call a "hero"?

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My wife and I are equals. I don't need to buy into some self-loathing belief system just to feel good in her presence. She doesn't have to for me either. Wish we could say the same for you. It's obvious you loath who you are and deride it in some attempt to prove how politically correct you can be.

How is it you know what my relationship with my fiancee is like?

What makes me think you have emotional problems is that you will angrily lash out on matters you have no logical means of judging and you take yourself very seriously.

I don't think you beat your wife, but you are obviously very self-important and preachy; that's why I feel sorry for her and most likely anyone around you who has to hear your diatribes about how you are really the oppressed one. I know people like you in real life and they are simply intolerable to be around. Always the victim.

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Blue collar is often thought of as manual or unskilled labor. If that is the type of work you have to do after getting a degree, then you choose poorly or were robbed of an education.

I use my hands and I'm not a rocket-scientist. Fuzzy definitions.
I always thought of it as pay scales, and there are definitely "blue-collar" (your definition) people that make more than me.

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The Republican party doesn't attempt to carve women off seperately, tell them that the world is harming them in this day and age for issues that often matters of personal choice (like the wage gap for example) and them promise to deal with these issues by dealing with the other parties involved. (That would be men)

Yes, the Republican party lies and/or condescends to women by saying there is no sex discrimination or that they deserve it because they should be at home taking care of kids instead of competing with men for work.

The wage gap is a matter of personal choice? Amazing.
"You know, my vagina is telling me to ask for less money!"

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For example on the Kerry website, it talks about the need to open more college opportunities for women via Title IX. Like women are really the minority in colleges and it is because of athletics that they are the minority.

Female athletes are in the minority, yes, and that is what he is talking about there, not overall attendance.

Why are there fewer female athletes? Because our society does not value women's athletics, this stems from our evolutionary start as a society with women highly repressed and compartmentalized. Is that liberal hogwash or common sense?

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It is that type of false statement that leads to athletic scholarships for men, and also men's teams being dismantled out of some attempt to create equality in an area where women are already 55+% of all students.

Why are men entitled to these scholarships?
I am against a lot of Title IX, but the manner in which you address the problem is childish, you accuse liberals of making men the enemy but instead of being logical you turn the gun around and shoot yourself in the face with it.

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post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman

Nick

Just in case you didn't understand, it is not the issue of some problems, such as paternity laws etc, that I was objecting to, but rather the seeming sense that these problems emenate from a vast conspiracy that has us 'jumping' when they say 'jump'.

Also, I never blame 'whitey' for histories' inequities . . . I am, however, very historically minded, and do acknowledge that history has painted grim pictures where the the bleakness still exists as a real conditional outgrowth of events in the past.

These real conditions can be dealt with in many ways: we can simply say . . . 'get on you feet!!' and watch nothing happen to all people and somethng to some
or we could mix with that statement of 'get off your feet' with material means to help achieve those ends . . . this may help more people get up.

You'll note that I leave it rather vague as to who is 'victimized' by what history, I don't play favorites, I know that many immigrant groups dealt with severe persecution . . . some stilll do today.

One note about different historical realities with regards to real groups: African slaves were dislocated from their heritage and social support networks . . . they managed to form strong social support networks, in new institutions that were adopted from the predominantly white culture that surrounded them, through synchretism . . . however, the oppression due to difference did not vanish as fast as it had for many other groups, and the social support networks were of an improvisatory nature, as opposed to direct transfer of deep traditions from the 'old-country'. . . many African Americans tried to hold onto 'African traditions', but those traditions were not the same, exactly, and did not provide the vital community and identity structures that could combat constant negation by the surrounding culture in the way that many immigrant communities were able to, the 'African traditions' were a sort of quotation of African Traditions . .. removed through conscious adoption . . . But, consequently, African Americans are more American than whites, in a way, because their relationship to their 'immigrant' tradition is one that is a sutured scar . . . not a direct lineage and tranfer. Their traditional ties were more created wholesale here as many whites transfered . . . this is all good and bad, and is also not universal, merely a broad description . . .

Irish Americans found it easier to come togeher and use their existing traditions as a social cohesion in the face of rabid persecution . . . they were not taken from their families as children and forced into hovels with people from different language groups who just happened to also have dark skin.

Anyway . . . I go on about this simply to point out that in each case their are deep particulars to the histories that have resulted in deeply different situations . . .

as far as oppression being everywhere? yes, but it isn't oppression by nobody on all people? case-by-case, but usually systemic cultural and economic situations excacerbate the problems and even perpetuate them.
Systemic problems can be, at least, analyzed rather than dismissed . .

they can also be analyzed, acknowledge and attempts at dealing with them can ensue WHILE also believing that what is best is for people to take into their own hands the means to transcend . . . these are not mutually exclusive positions.

Macho?! Stopping the whining doesn't mean you have to stop being sensitive?
Once again, the fiction of male badassness is a tragedy in that it closes off realms . . .
I, for one, am both badass and I cry like a baby too!!
I played football and was captian of the track team . . . and the whole time I cried at the beauty of it all . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #64 of 65
Quote:
WOw
You work with real women? More than one?

Funny thing Trumpt, but I actually agree with you about much of what you are talking about : the reform of paternity laws for instance, the fact that schools are geared for a kind of learning that is more appropriate to the form of knowledge acquisition that girls tend to be made for . . . there may be a thing or two in there as well that I mught agree with . .
(I would also point out, however, that mush of that is deeply cultural/systemic: for instance, the 'expectations' placed on boys, what they are supposed to care about . . . I don't believe that it is completely malleable, boys do tend to be more physically assertive beyond culture but it still plays a real part.)


But, you will note that I was specifically refering to this out-of-the-blue, and truly bizzar post about Groverat and his 'jump' saying white-caller wife (?!?!)
. . . it seemed to me to indicate some kind of fear of being 'whipped' . . . after all, men seem to hate the notion of being 'whipped' or 'hen pecked'

But usually I find that men who go on about that are also overly concerned about some sort of fictional and imaginary status of 'manhood', and/or, are working out all the slights that they got when they were unpopular geeks in that torture chamber known as highschool.

But anyway . . . whether that is you or not, and I am not saying that it is, I did find that paragraph to be the kind that a troubled person -re:relations to the other sex- might make . . . and coupled with the shear quantity of threads devoted to issues surrounding that 'sensetive' area . . . I, perhaps hastily, painted a forensic model of the perpettrator . . . oh well, you say I was wrong, so be it.

BTW, yeah, I'm all for high expectations . . . I am also for reality and for real people who live with real conditions.
and I'm very much Irish and know about 'all that' so don't try to throw that shit at me .. . I also made it very clear that I was talking about western history . . . and know very well that we abuse our own here in white man land . . . . and in other lands: abuse also occurs . . . so what? it does not negate teh fact that abuse can be slightly emiliorated through minimal care and attention, and if not that then at least acknowledgement should be paid to the realities of its complexity and its mere existence.

Oh, and let me guess, tough men don't bemoan death?!
I guess I'm not that tough after all

Are you kidding! I can't wait to be whipped by my new girlfriend! Yea she's great.

edit: just to clarify, I meant that in the metaphorical sense, not the whips, chains, and handcuffs since.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #65 of 65
Watch This Or Else!!!

John Stewart nailed this last week. I was waiting for Comedy Central to post this for ya'll to enjoy...


Enjoy.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
Reply
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