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PB G4 update oct/nov

post #1 of 66
9/2/04 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
Please, can anyone tell me for sure if there is going to be a PowerBook update between october and november? I really want to buy one, but I'm willing to wait 2 more months so I can buy an updated one...but I'm not sure if there will be an update at all... \

thanks
peace
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post #2 of 66
9/2/04 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally posted by wanea
Please, can anyone tell me for sure if there is going to be a PowerBook update between october and november?


Steve Jobs, but he doesnt post here much anymore
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post #3 of 66
9/2/04 at 10:02pm
Buy when you need and be happy. You may have to wait until MWSF for new PowerBooks and then shiping product may take another 1 to 2 months.
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post #4 of 66
9/2/04 at 11:31pm
My guess will be November. I don't have any inside knowledge but Apple can't afford to not have a updated model before Christmas. PB sales are too important to them.

Judging from recent rumors and comments from Apple, you won't see a PB G5 until next year. Since Apple probably won't develop a new motherboard or case for an updated G4, expect basically the same specs with a microscopically faster CPU and maybe a faster GPU. But that's all.

If you are desperate for a PB now, you should get it. If you could wait, might as well wait for the PB G5.
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post #5 of 66
9/3/04 at 5:51pm
Buy one now.

There's no hope of a PB G5 any time soon - nor a Frescale 2GHz G4, nor a dual core PB.

I bought a 1.3GHz 17" in November last year. It's plenty fast enough for me - even running virtual pc with Rational Rose is usable and everything else is fine.

The only time it chokes on is rendering video in FCP. It works fine for general editing, but not for rendering of complex effects and transitions, and on DVDSP - but that's slow on anything but a dual 2.0 G5 - which is why I just bought one
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post #6 of 66
9/4/04 at 1:32pm
I'm guessing December or MWSF. G4 Updates, just regular speedbumps, that's all.
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post #7 of 66
9/4/04 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by kiwi-in-dc
Buy one now.

There's no hope of a PB G5 any time soon - nor a Frescale 2GHz G4, nor a dual core PB.


Where did you get this from? Everything I've read seems to inidcate the 7448 will be out before the end of the year and 2GHZ has been suggested by FreeScale. 2GHZ with 1MB of L2 would be a nice chip in a laptop.

The dual-cores, it seems, should come next year with the 64bit FreeScale chip following either late in the year or early in the next year.
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post #8 of 66
9/4/04 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
Where did you get this from? Everything I've read seems to inidcate the 7448 will be out before the end of the year and 2GHZ has been suggested by FreeScale. ...

And from the time the chip comes out, to the time that powerbooks are actually available from the Apple Store... four to six months, or possibly longer.
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post #9 of 66
9/4/04 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
... 2GHZ has been suggested by FreeScale. 2GHZ with 1MB of L2 would be a nice chip in a laptop.

Link, please
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post #10 of 66
9/4/04 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
Link, please

http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/m...#20040617_7448

Little available information, but it's possible that the chips are already shipping and machines may be available by year-end. Mr. MacPhisto is right, a 2GHz G4 would be a pretty powerful computer.
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post #11 of 66
9/4/04 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/m...#20040617_7448

Little available information, but it's possible that the chips are already shipping and machines may be available by year-end. Mr. MacPhisto is right, a 2GHz G4 would be a pretty powerful computer.

I know, also here: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...MP286165424903

But i can't read nothing about 2GHz nor 1MB L2C
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post #12 of 66
9/4/04 at 5:26pm
I doubt, well hope since I just bought a new 1.5GHz Powerbook, that Apple won't release a new Powerbook anytime soon.

A G5 won't happen this year for sure and I'm predicting next year either because Apple had to slow the frontside bus down on the new iMac (even with that slowdown, they still look gorgeous!) nearly 50% just to make them operate in an area that would be an inch to big for a laptop.

Even though I have my doubts I still have hope that Apple and IBM can come up with some sort of way to decrease the heat enough without slowing the frontside bus too much.
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post #13 of 66
9/4/04 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
Where did you get this from? Everything I've read seems to inidcate the 7448 will be out before the end of the year and 2GHZ has been suggested by FreeScale. 2GHZ with 1MB of L2 would be a nice chip in a laptop.

From where I sit, here's what I see: The cycle time from chips initially sampling to full production is 2-6 months. From full production to shipping Apple product, from 2-6 months depending on how the chips are yielding.

So, if Freescale announces a 2GHz G4 today, it will be at best four months before it appears in a shipping product. More likely 6 or longer given that the 7448 is a 90nm chip - I fully expect Freescale to have exactly the same issues Intel and IBM had with 90nm - maybe worse given past performance with G4s.

Basically my advice is that a PB now is better than a slightly faster PB later. if you need it you need.
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post #14 of 66
9/4/04 at 5:34pm
My guess:

November: G4 MPC7448 at 1.8GHz max
March 2004: G5 1.8GHz max
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post #15 of 66
9/4/04 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
My guess:

November: G4 MPC7448 at 1.8GHz max
March 2004: G5 1.8GHz max

I seriously doubt we'll ever see a G5 in a PowerBook. IBMers I know say it just doesn't make sense and doesn't work with Apple's slim designs. They will have other chips ready mid-to-late next year that would be more viable, but a G5 woul dbe crippled in a PowerBook.

I would argue that there would be no significant improvement in performance from a 1.8GHZ G4 to a 1.8 GHZ G5 - in fact, there may be performance loss. The G5 is not going to be running with even a 600MHZ bus in a PowerBook. Bandwidth is the key to the G5's success. The G4 is better with working with slower bus speeds.

Plus we have FreeScale announcing System-on-Chip G4s that may be available at the same time. A G4 with an on-die memory controller and several other features would be a much better chip in a laptop.

The only thing I know about FreeScale is that IBM is certain they will be very strong in the next year. They still need to deliver, but I still believe we will see a 2GHZ PowerBook by MWSF, likely sooner. A bump to 1.8 GHZ wouldn't be bad considering previous bumps, but I think the 7448 will surprise.
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post #16 of 66
9/4/04 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
I would argue that there would be no significant improvement in performance from a 1.8GHZ G4 to a 1.8 GHZ G5 - in fact, there may be performance loss.

Go at Ars and read, it's a no brainer
The G5 has a much more advanced FPU and two of them. Over 200 instructions in flight and so on...

You know Hobold from ArsTechnica-Forum?: http://www.macguardians.de/fullstory...ereich=1#24305



Quote:
... They still need to deliver, but I still believe we will see a 2GHZ PowerBook by MWSF, likely sooner.

Yeah, they still need to deliver (2GHz... i don't think so )

Quote:
A bump to 1.8 GHZ wouldn't be bad considering previous bumps, but I think the 7448 will surprise.

If so, it will surprise, yes!
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post #17 of 66
9/5/04 at 12:22pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I'm starting to think that if I buy a PowerBook G4 1.5 15" right now the loss won't be much...even with an upgrade on the PB line by november(then they will only be shipping after a few months), the wait isn't worth it since I need the laptop at least in the next 2/3 months...
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post #18 of 66
9/5/04 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
My guess:

November: G4 MPC7448 at 1.8GHz max
March 2004: G5 1.8GHz max

I take it you mean March 2005, but anyway, those updates are too close together. If we get a year-end 7448 model, there won't be another model for a good six to eight months.
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post #19 of 66
9/5/04 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I take it you mean March 2005, but anyway, those updates are too close together. If we get a year-end 7448 model, there won't be another model for a good six to eight months.

great, PB G5 with WWDC2005.

can't wait
alles sal reg kom
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alles sal reg kom
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post #20 of 66
9/5/04 at 7:20pm
Quote:
I would argue that there would be no significant improvement in performance from a 1.8GHZ G4 to a 1.8 GHZ G5


Quote:
November: G4 MPC7448 at 1.8GHz max


i doubt that the G4 can even get to 1.8 Ghz, at least in a powerbook. since most chips have gotten down to 90 nm, chipmakers can't get them much smaller with the current architecture. they either need to revamp the way the G4 is built, or do something drastic to improve it and keep heat down and performance up.
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post #21 of 66
9/5/04 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
I take it you mean March 2005...

Yes of course

Quote:
If we get a year-end 7448 model, there won't be another model for a good six to eight months.

You'll see

Powerbook G5 in Q1/2005
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post #22 of 66
9/5/04 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
The only thing I know about FreeScale is that IBM is certain they will be very strong in the next year. They still need to deliver, but I still believe we will see a 2GHZ PowerBook by MWSF, likely sooner. A bump to 1.8 GHZ wouldn't be bad considering previous bumps, but I think the 7448 will surprise.

I think a 2G PB by MWSF is rather optimistic - I suspect a 1.7G part will be deployed first - so Apple can stretch the 1.5-2G over 12months.

So I think we should see an update prior to MWSF and then 6 months later for the magical 2G mark?, and only if there is enough cpu's to cover demand.

The last update was April 19 - which is early in the quarter (allows for apple to ship any backlog prior to June 30 without affecting their quarterly targets).

At worst case, things (supply of 7448) could get pushed back to MWSF and then again WWDC 6 months later?
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post #23 of 66
9/6/04 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by exhibit_13
i doubt that the G4 can even get to 1.8 Ghz, at least in a powerbook. since most chips have gotten down to 90 nm, chipmakers can't get them much smaller with the current architecture. ...

The current G4's are at 130nm, and I thought I'd read somewhere that the 'hot spots' had been eliminated during the 130nm process shrink... Programmer?
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post #24 of 66
9/6/04 at 8:24pm
The current G4's have been sold as 130nm parts but they are beig generous with the designation from my understanding of things. So if Freescale actually shrinks the G4 to 90nm on a completely different process things could be looking very good in G4++ land.

I'm truely hopefull as the 970 series is starting to become a big joke.

Thanks
Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
The current G4's are at 130nm, and I thought I'd read somewhere that the 'hot spots' had been eliminated during the 130nm process shrink... Programmer?
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post #25 of 66
9/6/04 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
I'm truely hopefull as the 970 series is starting to become a big joke.

That's a bit harsh - the PMacs price/performance is better than anything in Wintel (Opteron/Xeon) workstation class, and will only get better.

I think your right about the the G4 though - here's hoping.
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post #26 of 66
9/6/04 at 9:51pm
You answered my questions... I'm going to try to get a 15" PB now.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #27 of 66
9/6/04 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
You answered my questions... I'm going to try to get a 15" PB now.


I wouldnt do that if I were you...
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post #28 of 66
9/6/04 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter North
I wouldnt do that if I were you...

???

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #29 of 66
9/7/04 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter North
I wouldnt do that if I were you...

I would...
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post #30 of 66
9/7/04 at 9:14am
Maybe maybe not depends on how accurate the rumor mill is about problems with the 2.5GHz machines. If they beocme avialable in large volumns and maintain reliability in the field then it proballly is a bit harsh.

The realality is that the 970FX has a very narrow window in which it can operate reliably. This is not a good sign in my estimation. The fact that IBM was not successful in delivering a low voltage variant pretty much has eliminated the G5 from near term low power usage.

As to price and performance that simply is not true but this is a powerbook thread so we should avoid that discussion.

The big problem with a G4 machine is that software wise it will have a limited future. 64 bit addressing is the future.

Thanks
Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by hasapi
That's a bit harsh - the PMacs price/performance is better than anything in Wintel (Opteron/Xeon) workstation class, and will only get better.

I think your right about the the G4 though - here's hoping.
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post #31 of 66
9/7/04 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
Maybe maybe not depends on how accurate the rumor mill is about problems with the 2.5GHz machines. If they beocme avialable in large volumns and maintain reliability in the field then it proballly is a bit harsh.

The realality is that the 970FX has a very narrow window in which it can operate reliably. This is not a good sign in my estimation. The fact that IBM was not successful in delivering a low voltage variant pretty much has eliminated the G5 from near term low power usage.

As to price and performance that simply is not true but this is a powerbook thread so we should avoid that discussion.

The big problem with a G4 machine is that software wise it will have a limited future. 64 bit addressing is the future.

Thanks
Dave


I don't know much about freescale's plans... But aren't they trying to migrate the g4 into a 64bit chip?

 

 

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post #32 of 66
9/7/04 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I don't know much about freescale's plans... But aren't they trying to migrate the g4 into a 64bit chip?

Yeah! 2006

e700
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post #33 of 66
9/7/04 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
Yeah! 2006

e700

Oh ... well... that's like right around the corner

 

 

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post #34 of 66
9/7/04 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Oh ... well... that's like right around the corner


We'll see
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post #35 of 66
9/11/04 at 12:25pm
The next Rev. will have a G4 1.8 ghz or more atleast.

Apple don't want to release a powerbook which is weaker then the imac released before it.
That's just plain stupid.


The new pb's will look like this:

12" pb: 1.6 ghz G4, a Nvidia low/mid-end card 64 mb, 256mb ddr 333mhz.

15" pb: 1.8 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.

17" pb: 1.8/1.93 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.

All with 1024k chache.

And maybe a slight decrease in price.

Release: End of october/start of november.

Wait and see...
15,2" powerbook 1,25ghz.
1024mb ram.
80gb 5,400 rpm HD
Ati9600 64mb.
Superdrive.
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15,2" powerbook 1,25ghz.
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post #36 of 66
9/11/04 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dennis88
The next Rev. will have a G4 1.8 ghz or more atleast.

Apple don't want to release a powerbook which is weaker then the imac released before it.
That's just plain stupid.


The new pb's will look like this:

12" pb: 1.6 ghz G4, a Nvidia low/mid-end card 64 mb, 256mb ddr 333mhz.

15" pb: 1.8 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.

17" pb: 1.8/1.93 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.

All with 1024k chache.

And maybe a slight decrease in price.

Release: End of october/start of november.

Wait and see...

how can you be so sure of that ? I'm willing to wait till the end of october...but how sure are you of that ?

thanks
peace
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post #37 of 66
9/11/04 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally posted by wanea
how can you be so sure of that ? I'm willing to wait till the end of october...but how sure are you of that ?

thanks
peace

I would wait if I were you, or you would just regret it later.
15,2" powerbook 1,25ghz.
1024mb ram.
80gb 5,400 rpm HD
Ati9600 64mb.
Superdrive.
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15,2" powerbook 1,25ghz.
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Ati9600 64mb.
Superdrive.
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post #38 of 66
9/11/04 at 3:41pm
The cram and jam promo ends soon. I wonder if this is a sign?
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post #39 of 66
9/11/04 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
The cram and jam promo ends soon. I wonder if this is a sign?

i think it means apple is making all those stupid students and teachers buy like a gazillion apple products at once, just so they good get rid of all those g4 chips they have... then theyll point and laugh when they release a new rev of pb
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post #40 of 66
9/11/04 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by dennis88
I would wait if I were you, or you would just regret it later.

I saw discussions of the forthcoming powerbook update specs. in Taiwan Mac website, the guy said his company had contracted with Apple to produce iBook/12" Powerbook and that's the two model he had inside informations. I thought he is a notebook engineer because he know some informations that obviously only engineer who is involved in iBook/Powerbook production will know, like from which company Apple bought panels.

According to his infromation, the next 12' Powerbook update should have a 1.7 GHz microprocessor while the iBook will focus on cost down and have some neat new functions, however he did not provide any further detail informations. According to his informations, it was not until next spring we will see these new powerbooks, but I still want believe new powerbook oct/nov, because I had been waiting for a new 15' powerbook too too tooo loooong.
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