or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › GOP Contempt for Purple Hearts
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

GOP Contempt for Purple Hearts - Page 2

post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Satire is a protected form of speech with regard to portraying people in a manner that may be inaccurate. Slander is an entirely different thing and is not protected speech. The Reagan miniseries was considered to be slanderous by those protesting it.

So as usual, you aren't really offering specifics, just declaring the other side bad while not really claiming what you stand for or against.

Sounds Kerry on Iraq, and it is about as convincing.

Hiding and lying as usual. YOU mentioned satires, not me. Quit hiding from the discussion. Making fun of Kerry's war record is OK. Making fun of Reagan's death is not.

You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. You're the precise definition of a hypocrite and you're avoiding the discussion so you don't have to admit it. Dishonest to your core.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Hiding and lying as usual. YOU mentioned satires, not me. Quit hiding from the discussion. Making fun of Kerry's war record is OK. Making fun of Reagan's death is not.

You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. You're the precise definition of a hypocrite and you're avoiding the discussion so you don't have to admit it. Dishonest to your core.

bunge, you've seriously gone off the deep end. You didn't answer my questions. So I'm just going to assume you were drinking a bit too much today and leave it at that.

I've said that satire is a protected form of speech. You claim you are talking about making fun of Reagan, but not satire. At the same time you won't name the type of speech you somehow seem to want me to support (while claiming I'm a hypocrit for not supporting that which you will not name.)

The Reagans, on CBS was not described as a satire. You fully know that. You also know that slander is not a protected form of speech. The Reagans was a biographical television movie and had Reagan speaking lines and quotes that were never attributed to him in real life. The lines clearly defamed him.

Lastly, I don't mention satire to avoid discussions of free speech, but to inform them. We have a clear legal history of case law supporting satire. You could make fun of Reagan turned half around wondering where he put his hamster and show it half-way in his bare naked ass and I wouldn't have a problem with it. It is protected speech. But you couldn't produce a biography and attribute quotes and actions to him that didn't occur without fear of a slander suit.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #43 of 60
Saying something bad about Kerry is satire.
Saying something bad about Reagan is slander.

Any Questions?

Huh? WHAT double standard??
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #44 of 60
edit: too far, even by my reprehensible standards.
post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Saying something bad about Kerry is satire.
Saying something bad about Reagan is slander.

Any Questions?

Huh? WHAT double standard??

Saying something funny about Kerry is satire.
Saying something funny about Reagan is satire.

Producing a biography about Kerry that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Producing a biography about Reagan that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Any questions?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Saying something funny about Kerry is satire.
Saying something funny about Reagan is satire.

Producing a biography about Kerry that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Producing a biography about Reagan that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Any questions?

Nick

Oh, for sure.

First of all, since the Reagan biography was shown on broadcast TV, very few people know what allegations were made or what tone it took.

Second, how can you in all seriousness try to show a double standard by comparing a movie that was kept off the air with a slur campaign that has received massive exposure ?

Obviously a double standard is in play, but you're so far gone into your little right wing house of mirrors you don't even notice you're making the case for the people you're arguing against.

And what does this have to do with GOP contempt for the Purple Heart again?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Oh, for sure.

First of all, since the Reagan biography was shown on broadcast TV, very few people know what allegations were made or what tone it took.

Second, how can you in all seriousness try to show a double standard by comparing a movie that was kept off the air with a slur campaign that has received massive exposure ?

Obviously a double standard is in play, but you're so far gone into your little right wing house of mirrors you don't even notice you're making the case for the people you're arguing against.

And what does this have to do with GOP contempt for the Purple Heart again?

Perhaps you need to settle down for a second and stop over-generalizing eveything. Trumpt did not say the entire SBVFT controversy is satire. Just the purple heart band-aids. And those band-aids hardly got "massive exposure."

Second, the movie was not kept off the air. It was moved off of CBS, yes, but Showtime is not "off the air."

I don't see any sort of double standard as far as the band-aidgate and The Reagansgate goes. Totally different things. I think if this whole band-aid idea had been made public before the RNC, like the issues with The Reagans miniseries were, the public would have clearly stated the fact that this idea was in very poor taste, and I have no doubt the idea would have been scrapped.

Of course, I'm sure I'm just some Republicrat lackey spouting the talking points, so please immediately dismiss anything I have said before considering it.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You claim you are talking about making fun of Reagan, but not satire.

Making fun of Reagan when he died was satire. It was also universally condemned by conservatives.

I made no mention of the CBShowtime unaired-but-wired show. It's a great example of your usual strawman.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
Perhaps you need to settle down for a second and stop over-generalizing eveything. Trumpt did not say the entire SBVFT controversy is satire. Just the purple heart band-aids. And those band-aids hardly got "massive exposure."

Second, the movie was not kept off the air. It was moved off of CBS, yes, but Showtime is not "off the air."

I don't see any sort of double standard as far as the band-aidgate and The Reagansgate goes. Totally different things. I think if this whole band-aid idea had been made public before the RNC, like the issues with The Reagans miniseries were, the public would have clearly stated the fact that this idea was in very poor taste, and I have no doubt the idea would have been scrapped.

Of course, I'm sure I'm just some Republicrat lackey spouting the talking points, so please immediately dismiss anything I have said before considering it.

No thanks, I'll read your post, consider it, and then dismiss it, cause it's stupid.

What it is it with you wingnut apologists and your obsession with matching every lapse of the Republican party with what you imagine to be an equal an opposite behavior among Democrats? Can't you defend your party's bullshit with anything better than "I know you are, but what am I?"

Trying to justify demeaning the Purple Heart for partisan slur by pointing to a made for TV movie that was pulled from CBS's schedule due to Republican outcry (and think a minute, when was the last time a movie got pulled because a political party objected?), and which was insulting to Reagan only by some wingnut lights (presumably because it didn't do as good a job as portraying The Great Man as an infallible hero as, say, a certain made for TV movie about Bush and 9/11 which simply made shit up to portray him as far more resolute than he was, in fact) is just crap.

Your "--gate" formulation gives the game away. It's the deliberate use of leveling term of approbation in an attempt to force equivalency.

But in fact, there was never any "reagangate", just some right wing movers and shakers making sure that their hero didn't get portrayed as anything less than a god on broadcast TV. The only scandal was that CBS caved in to naked political thuggery.

And you want to offer this sorry episode as the balancing corrective to mocking the Purple Heart.

Why even take all that trouble? If you're going to be bone stupid about it, why not just go with a blanket "people say mean things about conservatives all the time so nothing the Republican party can ever do is without its equivalent opposite number".

Republicans in Florida illegally disenfranchising black voters? "People say mean things about conservatives, so there". Bush running the dirtiest campaign in American history? "So? Liberals don't like the president".

See? It's much easier than trying to make absurd connections between demonstrably different kinds of events, and makes every bit as much sense.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #50 of 60
I can't believe this actually happened. No nick this is not something you make fun of. That is liking making fun of an old lady in a wheel chair because she is crippled or someone's parents who got burned in an oven in the Holocaust. It is not cool. I am actually surprised even for Bush and the Republicans. This should definitely definitely be on the news. This should be the one thing that costs Bush the election. How could you let your President do something like this? And after cutting VA money.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
Reply
post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Saying something funny about Kerry is satire.
Saying something funny about Reagan is satire.

Producing a biography about Kerry that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Producing a biography about Reagan that makes false and malicious remarks is slander.

Any questions?

Nick

Here's one for starters.
Is producing a TV commercial about Kerry that makes false and malicious remarks slander, or satire?
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
No thanks, I'll read your post, consider it, and then dismiss it, cause it's stupid.

What it is it with you wingnut apologists and your obsession with matching every lapse of the Republican party with what you imagine to be an equal an opposite behavior among Democrats? Can't you defend your party's bullshit with anything better than "I know you are, but what am I?"

First off: I am no wingnut apologist. You can save your name calling. Be an adult.

Second: The Republican party is not "my party"

Third: My comments to you were about you misinterpreting the scale of what Trumpt said. Not about sticking up for Republicans while reprimanding Democrats.

Quote:
Trying to justify demeaning the Purple Heart for partisan slur by pointing to a made for TV movie that was pulled from CBS's schedule due to Republican outcry (and think a minute, when was the last time a movie got pulled because a political party objected?), and which was insulting to Reagan only by some wingnut lights (presumably because it didn't do as good a job as portraying The Great Man as an infallible hero as, say, a certain made for TV movie about Bush and 9/11 which simply made shit up to portray him as far more resolute than he was, in fact) is just crap.

Perhaps. But had you read my earlier posts you would have seen that I indeed denounced the purple heart stunt, so you're crying is not applicable with me. And I also didn't think the Reagan's movie should have been pulled. But ultimately that is CBS's fault for caving in.

Quote:
Your "--gate" formulation gives the game away. It's the deliberate use of leveling term of approbation in an attempt to force equivalency.

But in fact, there was never any "reagangate", just some right wing movers and shakers making sure that their hero didn't get portrayed as anything less than a god on broadcast TV. The only scandal was that CBS caved in to naked political thuggery.

Actually, my "-gate" formulation stems from the fact that people commonly attach it to stupid insignifcant scandlas post-Watergate. Remember "Monica-gate?" Me too. It was poking fun. You missed it.

Quote:
And you want to offer this sorry episode as the balancing corrective to mocking the Purple Heart.

Why even take all that trouble? If you're going to be bone stupid about it, why not just go with a blanket "people say mean things about conservatives all the time so nothing the Republican party can ever do is without its equivalent opposite number".

Interesting paragraph here. You attribute all kinds of thought and statements to me that I have never made. Odd how you can come to that conclusion when you actually realize I was not sticking up for Republicans or Democrats, merely pointing out you falsely assumed Trupmt's statements were in regards to the entire SBVFT campaign, when in fact they were about the the form of expression used to mock Kerry's purple hearts. In addition, I never actually claimed I felt it to be a good idea to do this, and that can easily be seen by checking my earlier posts in this very thread.

Quote:
Republicans in Florida illegally disenfranchising black voters? "People say mean things about conservatives, so there". Bush running the dirtiest campaign in American history? "So? Liberals don't like the president".

See? It's much easier than trying to make absurd connections between demonstrably different kinds of events, and makes every bit as much sense.

You are just becoming irate at this point and I don't really feel the need to address these completely irrational points. But I'll make it a point to avoid responding to you, as apparently you are incapable of being disagreed with without blowing your top.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Here's one for starters.
Is producing a TV commercial about Kerry that makes false and malicious remarks slander, or satire?

It would be slander, but that would be determined by the judge, not me. The judge would determine whether the remarks were false or truthful during a trial.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
It would be slander, but that would be determined by the judge, not me. The judge would determine whether the remarks were false or truthful during a trial.

But not in the case of the Reagan mini-series. It was slanderous even though the people that claimed it so hadn't seen it.

You still haven't answered why it's wrong to make fun of Reagan when he died, but it's OK to make fun of Kerry's Purple Heart.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
You still haven't answered why it's wrong to make fun of Reagan when he died, but it's OK to make fun of Kerry's Purple Heart.

I do not think Trumpt is saying one was wrong and one wasn't. As I see it, he is saying they are both wrong.

But he's saying even though they are both wrong, only one (slander) is illegal whereas the other (satire) is protected speech.

If I am incorrect in my assumption please let me know.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
Reply
post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
I do think Trumpt is saying one was wrong and one wasn't. As I see it, he is saying they are both wrong.

But he's saying even though they are both wrong, only one (slander) is illegal whereas the other (satire) is protected speech.

If I am incorrect in my assumption please let me know.

Unfortunately he's injected the Reagan mini-series into the conversation instead of the topic I was talking about: making fun of Reagan when he died. That was satire, but conservatives went ballistic. That was protected speech, but Nick refuses to admit that there is a double standard being used here.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #57 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Unfortunately he's injected the Reagan mini-series into the conversation instead of the topic I was talking about: making fun of Reagan when he died. That was satire, but conservatives went ballistic. That was protected speech, but Nick refuses to admit that there is a double standard being used here.

Kinda like Republicans who are making fun of President Clinton's health and heart surgery? Yeah, I doubt liberals would be allowed to get away with that kind of behavior, jesting or not.

Again, the double-standard is amazing!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
But not in the case of the Reagan mini-series. It was slanderous even though the people that claimed it so hadn't seen it.

You still haven't answered why it's wrong to make fun of Reagan when he died, but it's OK to make fun of Kerry's Purple Heart.

Actually I have answered you in a very clear manner. I haven't answered why it is WRONG to make fun of Reagan when he died because I do not believe it is WRONG to make fun of Reagan when he died or any other time. I've stated quite clearly that satire is a protected form of speech and that I support that belief.

Quoting... me....

Quote:
Lastly, I don't mention satire to avoid discussions of free speech, but to inform them. We have a clear legal history of case law supporting satire. You could make fun of Reagan turned half around wondering where he put his hamster and show it half-way in his bare naked ass and I wouldn't have a problem with it. It is protected speech. But you couldn't produce a biography and attribute quotes and actions to him that didn't occur without fear of a slander suit.

So to be very clear... okay to make fun of Reagan.... okay to make fun of Kerry.

What you have tried to do in a very dishonest manner is declare that the Reagan mini-series which is described as a biographical picture is somehow "making fun" of Reagan, but you won't call it satire. I don't really see your point with it either way. Satire is protected, I have no problem with it. You could call the Reagan mini-series a satire, but you wouldn't have much credibility since even the creators did not label it as such. So you seem to want to straddle this weird middle ground where you claim it is "making fun" Reagan, but is not satire.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
What you have tried to do in a very dishonest manner is declare that the Reagan mini-series which is described as a biographical picture is somehow "making fun" of Reagan, but you won't call it satire.

You've simply misunderestandamated me. I've made no such claims about the Reagan mini-series. The only claim I've made is that it was criticized by people who never saw it.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
You've simply misunderestandamated me. I've made no such claims about the Reagan mini-series. The only claim I've made is that it was criticized by people who never saw it.

You've simply misunderestimated me. (Haha) I've made no such claims about people who made fun of Reagan dying. The only claim I've made is that satire is legal and that I support that view.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › GOP Contempt for Purple Hearts