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Bush Audience Boos W's Best Wishes To Clinton - Page 2

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Clinton is exactly what Bush is in many ways. First Clinton never got a majority of the votes cast. He was basically elected the first time because Perot peeled so many votes off from Bush I, and then bailed on the race. (If I recall correctly, Clinton was elected with 43% of the popular vote the first time he was elected and 49% the second)

While I'm not too good with letters, you seem to miss the mark when numbers come in to play. Clinton got a 'simple' majority of votes cast as our constitution calls for. GHWB got 37%, WJC got 43% and HRP got 19%. See how it works is of the candidates Clinton got the most votes. If you honestly believe HRP skimmed the entire 19% from GHWB then your nuts.
"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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"[Saddam's] a bad guy. He's a terrible guy and he should go. But I don't think it's worth 800 troops dead, 4500 wounded -- some of them terribly -- $200 billion of our treasury and counting, and...
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post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Clinton is exactly what Bush is in many ways. First Clinton never got a majority of the votes cast.

Did GHWB in his first run? I'm honestly asking.

Quote:
He was basically elected the first time because Perot peeled so many votes off from Bush I, and then bailed on the race. (If I recall correctly, Clinton was elected with 43% of the popular vote the first time he was elected and 49% the second)....

So you're basically saying that the right hated Clinton because he didn't have a mandate and yet he bothered to govern? How does that explain the fact that for 8 years Clinton and his entire family were treated as if they were enemies of the state?

Quote:
The fact that they consider Bush an utter moron and some how he has the ability to still come out on top of all of this is probably what inspires pure hatred.

Well, I often make my fellow lefties mad when I tell them that Bush isn't a moron. It's part of his overall strategy. Lower expectations. That's the name of the game.

Quote:
Then when they imagine that Bush while dumb as a doorknob in their books is still probably still smart enough to a)keep his dick in his pants or b) at least not shoot his wad on her dress it just makes the whole thought on the effectiveness of a second term just that much more intolerable.

This still does not explain why the right hates Clinton so much. And I'm serious here. I don't like Bush. I think his decisions are bad. I think he's made the world less safe. I think he's done damage to the economy. I think his cronyism is criminal.

But so many on the right simply seem to hate Clinton for utterly vague reasons that have nothing to do with policy. What, precisely, did he DO that pissed people off?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
But so many on the right simply seem to hate Clinton for utterly vague reasons that have nothing to do with policy. What, precisely, did he DO that pissed people off?

Most of the Clinton-hatred is personal, I'd say. But at least part of it has to do with the way he stole the right's thunder, co-opting a lot of their rhetoric and policies ("era of big government is over," welfare reform, NAFTA, etc.) Or maybe just because he, a formerly poor Arkansas boy, succeeded. A lot of these people don't like to see one of their own actually succeed. (Kind of like the charge of "acting white" if black teenagers read books.) Just a few thoughts.
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Most of the Clinton-hatred is personal, I'd say. But at least part of it has to do with the way he stole the right's thunder, co-opting a lot of their rhetoric and policies ("era of big government is over," welfare reform, NAFTA, etc.) Or maybe just because he, a formerly poor Arkansas boy, succeeded. A lot of these people don't like to see one of their own actually succeed. (Kind of like the charge of "acting white" if black teenagers read books.) Just a few thoughts.

That's precisely my point. How can you have a personal hatred for someone a) you don't know and b) who hasn't been, you know, killing Jews by the millions.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Did GHWB in his first run? I'm honestly asking.

GHWB lost is second term. He raised taxes. He didn't seem immune to circumstance. He went along with the Democrats who were in power.

Quote:
So you're basically saying that the right hated Clinton because he didn't have a mandate and yet he bothered to govern? How does that explain the fact that for 8 years Clinton and his entire family were treated as if they were enemies of the state?

No I'm saying the exact opposite, that he governed much, much better and was able to pass legislation much better than someone who got so little of the vote. People say of Bush that he governs like he got a mandate when he only was elected with an electoral college victory. Clinton got 43% and the first thing he did was come in and attempt to nationalize health care, and raise taxes. Then after 94, he fought hard enough with the Republicans to shut down the government and spun it so they received all the blame.

People wouldn't hate incompetence with Clinton or Bush. What they hate is how effective the are when they have a view that the shouldn't even be in office. It makes the sting that much worse.

Quote:
Well, I often make my fellow lefties mad when I tell them that Bush isn't a moron. It's part of his overall strategy. Lower expectations. That's the name of the game.

I can't think of a Republican president who hasn't been labeled stupid by Democrats. I don't think it is a Bush strategy, I think it is simply their own stereotyping coming back to bite them in the ass.

Quote:
This still does not explain why the right hates Clinton so much. And I'm serious here. I don't like Bush. I think his decisions are bad. I think he's made the world less safe. I think he's done damage to the economy. I think his cronyism is criminal.

Right and when you believe all that and then think, "And this asshole wasn't even popularly elected, and now he is going to get a second term" it starts to turn from disdain into pure hate.

Clinton had two terms. You think Bush hasn't been hated on enough, just wait until a second term when the left goes nuts. I've predicted this election will be Bush 49%-46%.

Quote:
But so many on the right simply seem to hate Clinton for utterly vague reasons that have nothing to do with policy. What, precisely, did he DO that pissed people off?

He was teflon. Slick Willie. He could say something, do something else and never seem to have it questioned. (I'm sure people on the left are thinking, "But yeah that is true of Bush, well no kidding, that is why you HATE him.") He could propose secret socialized medicine, have his party lose the house, shut down the government over a fight that he WINS and then still come back even stronger.

Wait, here is the simpliest way to put it. Clinton could grab your own language, your own ideals, hit you over the head with them, and come out smelling like roses while you come out smelling like crap.

^^^^^^ Pure hatred right there... and that is what inspires it from Bush as well. I saw this crystalized pretty well watching Real Time with Maher a couple days ago. He was basically saying "9/11 wasn't our proudest moment, it was a gigantic fuck up, and now he is using what should be proof of incompetence to WIN OFFICE."

Clinton for example NEVER projected a balanced budget. He projected deficits for his entire time in office. He was dragged into a spending fight that shut down the government and he came out smelling great. Then the fights continued with Clinton fighting every dollar of reduced growth in government spending. Yet every reduced dollar actually increased his popularity even while he was portraying the Republicans as pure evil, heartless bastards for doing it. He took all the credit, they took all the blame.

Welfare Reform is a perfect example. He finally signed the third fully passed version of Welfare Reform. He was dragged into signing it and yet the before the ink even dried he was off crowing about his accomplishment and how thank god he protected the poor from all those evil Republicans. Then he gets to take CREDIT for the savings from that reform without somehow being accused of "leaving children behind" "tossing the elderly in the streets", etc. Instead it is the Republicans who want those things, but Clinton got all the credit for the savings.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #46 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
First Clinton never got a majority of the votes cast.

But no one ever got more votes than him either.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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