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Death in Gaza

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
HBO just ran a great documentary film that was shot on location in Gaza. If you want to understand what the Israeli policy and the "conflict" is all about, watch it.

Just because a government is run by people of the Jewish faith, does not mean they are incapable of enacting hateful and despicable policies. All humans have the capacity to abuse and oppress; the Israeli government is no different.

Have a look....
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post #2 of 19
Is that the one where James dies at the end? Tragic.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Yes, they shot James Miller in the neck even though he had a cameraman with him and a white flag... and the Israelis (by definition) were using high definition night-scopes. And of course, like the lady who got bulldozed in a Palenstinian house a couple years back, no one will ever answer for it.

The soldiers who run the tanks and bulldozers and APCs through Gaza and other occupied territories, can do whatever the hell they want, and they do, and they will never answer for it because the Israeli government just doesn't give a shit. And this started long before there were Palestinians blowing up Israeli cafes (which for the record, I also find to be hateful and despicable).

But what they're doing, if you look at the maps as they get revised over time, and if you watch that documentary, is depressingly obvious. They're slowly, but systematically eliminating the Palestinian neighborhoods in the areas they want to occupy (or make inhabitable to anyone), leaving scores of people homeless (and of course, ready to die). They destroy what little these people have to live for (a home, a family, a place to call "their neighborhood"). Hell if some goverment did that to my family's home (or killed my neighbors or whatever), I'd want to lash out, too.

There is of course the Palestinian side of the problem, with the paramilitaries brain-washing the little kids into thinking it's good to die, etc. And we didn't get to see the Israeli deaths (because the Israelis have open season in Gaza and shot Miller in the neck before he ever did that part of the documentary), but the point is the same as it always was: tanks and choppers and jets and gigantic bulldozers against people with a few guns and home-made explosives. If all the isolated Palestinian neighborhoods become "security zones", pretty soon there won't be any Palestinian neighborhoods.

They move through Gaza, just indescriminately destroying new pieces of property each day. Someone's house here, someone's yard there, leveling "new security zones" (and its so obvious the bulldozings have no effect on "security"; the whole damn place is like one giant rubble-pile, so the motives are clearly not security-related).

It's really pathetic. And almost worse than anything the Israelis do, is that our government knows they've been doing this crap (hell they supply the tanks and choppers and jets), and they don't say squat about it. No reprimands, no economic sanctions, no stringent policies, nothing. Because God forbid we ever criticize the Israeli government; that would be anti-semitic, right? They are above criticism, because anything they do *must* be self-defense.

Watch this documentary and you'll see what "self defense" the Israeli way means.
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post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Yes, they shot James Miller in the neck even though he had a cameraman with him and a white flag... and the Israelis (by definition) were using high definition night-scopes. And of course, like the lady who got bulldozed in a Palenstinian house a couple years back, no one will ever answer for it.
...


Actually she wasn't in a house. She was outside and steped infornt of the bulldozer into a blind spot of the driver. If I'm not mistake the Israelis have changed the way they do things so they wont kill anymore anti-american protestors.
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
anti-american protestors.

stuck record
stuck record
stuck record
stuck record
stuck record
stuck ...
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
If I'm not mistake the Israelis have changed the way they do things so they wont kill anymore anti-american protestors.

How about the pro-Palestinian protestor? Or the anti-Israeli ones?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Blind spot my ass. There was never any indication of that; she was right in front of the damn thing, and regardless I'm sure she was making herself visible in other moments leading up to her death, so it's not like the driver was unaware of a human presence there. He just didn't give a shit, period. Just like all the other indescriminant bulldozings that take place. What's another life or another person's home after all?

Regardless, until you've watched the documentary in its entirety, I'm not really interested in any comments you have relating to it, Scott. If you want to watch it and refute the implications (or more likely, make some lame excuse), go ahead.
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post #8 of 19
Moogs you couldn't even get the basics correct and now you're telling me other aspects of it are bullshit?


Oh and here's a wonderful picture of that "peace" activist teaching hate to a bunch of Palestinian kids. Looks kind of anti-American to me. With citizens like this who needs enemies?

post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Oh, there's no question about the hatred against Israelis and Americans harbored by Palestinians. It's there, and while there's no excuse for it, that doesn't mean there isn't a very good explanation for it.

What baffles me is that you never seem to make an effort to understand *why* the hatred is there. It's not just religion Scott. Muslims aren't born hating Jews, and their parents didn't always hate Jews. But hard-line, inhuman policymaking has a way of creating hatred rather easily. The hatred is a direct result of what the Israelis do to these people year after year. The camps, the bulldozers, the sniper towers, the rocket attacks, all of it.

And while a few of those actions are legitimate acts of self-defense, targetting actual known terrorists, most are nothing more than an attempt to make ever-smaller the areas the Palestinians can call home, to demoralize them, and basically dehumanize them.

PS - if you can find a legitimate link showing clear evidence the woman was in the dozer's blind spot and that the driver never had any way of knowing that she was there, let's see it. I never once read that from any respectable publication.

The point Scott, is that if I were driving that dozer and I saw some protester running around the front of my machine, I'd stop and wait until someone removed her. I wouldn't keep on bull-dozing... would you?
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post #10 of 19
No. It's because they are jews. There's plenty of inhumanity toward muslims in the middle east. Mostly by muslims. That's okay for muslims. You don't see them bombing each other's kids over that. God forbid a jew call a hunk of land "Israel" and create a successful democracy there. That's an act of war!
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Oh and here's a wonderful picture of that "peace" activist teaching hate to a bunch of Palestinian kids. Looks kind of anti-American to me. With citizens like this who needs enemies?

So it's OK to kill her without putting her in a court of law? Sounds like republican fascism to me.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
So it's OK to kill her without putting her in a court of law? Sounds like republican fascism to me.


Yea that's exactly what I'm saying. You're so brilliant bunge.
post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 
And what of Palestinians getting their "hunk of land" (more like a speck of land at this point) and calling it Palestine, is that an act of war too, Scott? Seems to me it's pretty obvious who is getting the short end of the stick when it comes to land ownership. Not much leverage for you to argue there, I'm afraid. Next....
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post #14 of 19
I'm not against that at all. Too bad they are in the grips of a death cult. Not something to base a free democracy off of.
post #15 of 19
PMW

If these crazy people would stop brainwashing their kids to die via ways which kill innocent people Israelis would have no room for their viscious attacks against people who could actually live "with" their neighbors. The problem is that both sides can't stand the other and wish to inflict harm.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
PMW

If these crazy people would stop brainwashing their kids to die via ways which kill innocent people Israelis would have no room for their viscious attacks against people who could actually live "with" their neighbors. The problem is that both sides can't stand the other and wish to inflict harm.

Fellows

Like you, I condemn the false preaching of martyrdom for suicide-bombers. To make suicide and killing other people certainly doesn't qualify for martyrdom.

But as well as I condemn that I know that Israel wouldn't stop doing what it does no matter what the palestinians are doing. Maybe you should reflect on history and remember that suicide-bombings are a relatively new form of resistance. If I'm not totally mistaken, it was invented by Hezbollah and used for the first time at the end of the seventies against a US-military-post in Lebanon, and it was used for the second time by Hamas in Israel at the beginning of the intifada at the end of the eighties.

And as far as I remember before the suici-bombings were used the situation was not better for the palestinians, only for the israelis.

Nightcrawler
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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post #17 of 19
So Scott, every time someone starts an anti-american protest somewhere in the world, you want to kill them?
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by talksense101
So Scott, every time someone starts an anti-american protest somewhere in the world, you want to kill them?

Yes. Kill them. Kill them all. That's my complete point. You nailed it.
post #19 of 19
If your point isn't to say it's OK to kill her, either you have no point or you've lied.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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